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votto08
12-23-2008, 11:41 PM
with maybe yankees and angels not looking at manny now if your the reds would u offer manny 2yr 45-50million dollar deal it may in crease ticket sales and add a little excitement yes manny isnt a great defender but the man is a bigggg time run producer and u put him between votto and bruce and i think they both could have huge years and its only 2yr deal so its not a long term bad contract if u ask me and manny may be forced to take a short deal way things are going and i believe he could have a monster year playing 81 games in great american ball park plus other ball parks in our division

Bip Roberts
12-23-2008, 11:49 PM
I really doubt the Reds are willing to spend that much money

TheNext44
12-23-2008, 11:51 PM
I brought this up before and no one seemed interested. I think it would take a three year deal and it would be worth it.

Manny is a 5 win player easily and that is counting in his bad defense. Put him in between Bruce and Votto and they both would have monster years. Look at what putting Manny inbetween Ethier an Kent did last year.

If the Reds had Manny in left for the next three years, they would make the playoffs every year.

WildcatFan
12-23-2008, 11:56 PM
No way Manny would want to come to Cincinnati. He needs the limelight ie. Boston, New York, LA, Chicago

votto08
12-24-2008, 12:00 AM
i just think if manny would take 2yr deal and reds really want to send message we want to win in 2009 u just have to say go for it i believe fans would come out to ball park and buy manny jerseys and other things and city would have a buzzzz again about baseball and that should help team like the reds with money to help pay for manny i think hes true difference maker the reds need

TheNext44
12-24-2008, 12:09 AM
No way Manny would want to come to Cincinnati. He needs the limelight ie. Boston, New York, LA, Chicago

Boras represents Manny. That means Manny will follow the money. Pure and simple. Guarantee a third year, and Manny would play for University of Cincinnati.

Captain Hook
12-24-2008, 12:15 AM
I would love to have Manny but it will never never never happen.Did I mention that it will never happen?

Captain Hook
12-24-2008, 12:16 AM
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChatterRed
12-24-2008, 01:20 AM
It will never happen.

But it would be a smart move for the Reds to overpay a little and go 3 years. Manny would pay for himself in ticket sales, merchandising, and by improving this team dramatically, including the guys hitting around him. I know his defense sucks, but he is 100x the hitter Dunn is/was.

I'd pay him $70 million over 3 years. It would easily pay for itself.

The other thing is, in 3 years, our minors easily will fill his position, and by signing him as a free agent, we eliminate trading away our prospects. And in 3 years we will know what we have in Votto and Bruce, and we will have to pay them too.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-24-2008, 01:20 AM
I really doubt the Reds are willing to spend that much moneySemetimes I wonder why I stick with the Reds. I don't have to, I could switch to the yankees or sox, they are always exciting and have the money to buy whatever they want. It's kinda like spending the weekend at kenny the poor kids house when you were invited to the rich kids down the streets beach house. Year after year though I stick it out, I guess I figure it will be that much sweeter when they do put together a winner.:beerme:

Orodle
12-24-2008, 02:50 AM
If you dont want a hitter like Manny on your team well then you need your head examined.

RedLakerFan24
12-24-2008, 03:32 AM
Trade Alex Gonzalez, Micah Owings, Drew Stubbs for Vernon Wells, Then Sign Abreu to play Left, then sign Orlando Cabrera to play Short

Orlando Cabrera SS
Brandon Phillips 2B
Joey Votto 1B
Vernon Wells CF
Bobby Abreu LF
Jay Bruce RF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Ramon Hernandez C

Hondo
12-24-2008, 11:35 AM
Trade Alex Gonzalez, Micah Owings, Drew Stubbs for Vernon Wells, Then Sign Abreu to play Left, then sign Orlando Cabrera to play Short

Orlando Cabrera SS
Brandon Phillips 2B
Joey Votto 1B
Vernon Wells CF
Bobby Abreu LF
Jay Bruce RF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Ramon Hernandez C

What?

Vernon Wells contract is too much for his production... Abreu isn't worth 10 Million+

I thought Cabrera would be a Good fit but someone pointed out to me that he was a type A Free Agent and would cost a number 1 DRAFT PICK...

redsfandan
12-24-2008, 12:05 PM
... I thought Cabrera would be a Good fit but someone pointed out to me that he was a type A Free Agent and would cost a number 1 DRAFT PICK...

If Cabrera is picked up by a team with a better '08 record it could cost a 1st round pick. Since ours is protected he would cost us a 2nd round pick instead.

GoReds33
12-24-2008, 12:40 PM
It won't happen. I love the idea though. Manny is the type of player who could carry this lineup. He's not a good example for the younger players, but we have plenty of those good examples. I know he plays bad defense, but the left field in GABP is very small.

fourrunhomer
12-24-2008, 12:45 PM
I've never been a big Manny fan, but he can hit. He is exactly what the Reds say they are looking for. I think I would have to do 2 years, $50mil.

Bip Roberts
12-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Cabrera isn't very good

DTCromer
12-24-2008, 01:52 PM
I would love to have the best hitter of our generation on our team. However, his salary demands are waaaaaay too much for the Reds.

Ghosts of 1990
12-24-2008, 03:16 PM
He'll probably be back in LA

redsfandan
12-24-2008, 07:03 PM
maybe. I still wouldn't be surprised if the yankees landed him. (whith them trading Matsui for whatever and picking up a pitcher like Mulder or Garcia on a deal built around incentives)

Edd Roush
12-24-2008, 10:49 PM
I brought this up before and no one seemed interested. I think it would take a three year deal and it would be worth it.

Manny is a 5 win player easily and that is counting in his bad defense. Put him in between Bruce and Votto and they both would have monster years. Look at what putting Manny inbetween Ethier an Kent did last year.

If the Reds had Manny in left for the next three years, they would make the playoffs every year.


I got your back with this idea. I think Manny would be a major asset to this offense and may have the bat to lift the offense from 25th in runs scored to 15th, which would increase our playoff chances dramatically. Screw the money, Manny would be worth every penny.

Plus, he would really enjoy the honeymoon he would get with this baseball town and the local media are just drones to what the Reds want them to say so he would not receive any of the scathing criticism he was effected by in Boston.

That being said, he won't sign here unless we really overpay, which won't likely happen. Still, I would love to see him giving high fives to fans in GABP next season.

Hondo
12-24-2008, 10:50 PM
If the Reds were serious and wanted to give Manny a 3 year deal... He may just be the Bat to go between Votto and Bruce...

Wouldn't that be awesome to see the pitches Bruce gets to look at hitting in front of ManRam...

We're talking Geroge Brett stats dude...

redsfandan
12-28-2008, 04:19 PM
Olney's Latest: No Big Money For Manny?
By Nat Boyle [December 28 at 12:53pm CST]
Buster Olney's latest discusses the bleak outlook for Manny Ramirez in landing the long-term, big money contract he's seeking.

"It is evident that during a winter when many teams have clamped down and watch their dollars more carefully, executives with many teams have decided they cannot trust Ramirez on a multiyear deal."

Olney provides a brief rundown on all teams considered potential players in the Manny sweepstakes, paraphrased below:

Dodgers: offered 2 years, $45MM and then rescinded offer after Boras didn't respond.
Angels, Mets, Yankees: Indications are they're out of the bidding.
Blue Jays, Padres, Rockies, Diamondbacks: Looking to reduce payroll, rather than add.
Brewers: Are content with Ryan Braun in left field.
Phillies: Are content to have signed Raul Ibanez.
Cubs: Have "maxed out" their spending this year, and already have Alfonso Soriano.
Tigers: Already have too much on the books and a full outfield.
White Sox: They want to get younger.
Athletics, Twins, Indians, Rays, Royals and Pirates (among others, Olney suggests): Would never commit $20-25MM per year to one player.
Cardinals and Braves: Have enough outfielders and are focusing on pitching.

The obvious irony in Olney's breakdown is that the Red Sox are the only team with both the money and the need to offer what Boras is asking and, of course, they're not bidding. Olney suggests the Nationals would be an interesting fit but that the concern there would be that Manny might not play hard during the duration of his contract on a team that may or may not be at all competitive.

Olney concludes with a red flag for any team hoping to get Manny at a reduced rate:

"Some general managers have said privately, a great concern they have about Ramirez is that if you give him a deal of two or more years that is worth far less than he thinks he deserves, you run the risk of having a very unhappy Manny. As the Red Sox can attest, that didn't work out so well in the end."

I'm going to love to see how this ends.

stripedwarrior
12-28-2008, 09:52 PM
What would be wrong with a 1 yr $20-25 contract? I would think if the market doesn't shape up for him, he may be willing to do a one and done with an eye towards a better payday after next season. Maybe his agent also convinces him to be a better "team" player, and avoid the "Manny being Manny" type things.
Our liability would be limited to just the one year. If we are out of it, we could flip him for a prospect or two. If we are in it, then we are winning, and hopefully everyone is happy.
If it works out well for us, then perhaps we can get a couple picks out of him in the 2010 draft.

ChatterRed
12-28-2008, 10:08 PM
Dodgers offered 2 years - $45 mil and Boras never responded?

BWAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Fun watching how this all plays out.

I was wishing the Reds would offer 2 years - $50 mill. I guess it's not enough.

CF Taveras - Dickerson
2B Phillips - 20 homers
RF Bruce - 30 homers
LF Ramirez - 35 homers
1B Votto - 30 homers
3B Encarnacion - 25 homers
SS Gonzo-Keppinger
C

Some serious pop in the lineup and hopefully Ramirez and Votto could hit .285 or better.

Blood Red Path
12-28-2008, 10:12 PM
Assuming that the market turmoil forces Manny to re-sign in L.A. And considering that the coin they would be shelling out would leave them with an inordinate amount of salary relegated to the OF; therefore, surely being out of the running to re-sign Lowe, it seems to me that the dodgers would be looking to dump an OF'er to add some pitching.

In that case, how would everyone feel about a possible Bronson Arroyo (or at the very least Bailey +) trade for Kemp or Ethier.

A deal like that seems logical to me for the Dodgers when you concede that they are likely to have no chance at trading Pierre or Andruw's ridiculous contracts, would have a log-jam in the OF, and have shown past interest in Arroyo.

BEETTLEBUG
12-28-2008, 10:27 PM
I would not mind Manny either. Two years for 50mil doesn't sound so bad if not I would look in to some kind of a deal with Dodgers for Andrew Jones to play LF, he sure could inflate his Stats in GABP!

biggestREDSfan
12-28-2008, 10:31 PM
Wouldn't it be great to have Manny Ramirez in your lineup everyday!
I have followed Ramirez since he started playing for the Indians. It would give me chills to hear that the Reds have signed him.
Hey Manny! Come to Cincy!

jmac
12-28-2008, 11:06 PM
Manny is the one guy I love watching swing a bat the most.
Now as far as the reds, If Bob C has the money and he doesnt appear to be spending it on other targets (not counting WT and RH ), then why not spend it on a guy who would put up numbers & make others around him better.

A 3-5 of :
Votto
Ramirez
Bruce

would be quite a middle of order. Yes he has problems and isnt a great influence but he has always put up numbers and played on winners.
I am not for sure who the reds play that first weekend at home but do ya think they would draw a bigger crowd for a lineup of the above mentioned or

Votto
Phillips
Bruce

My guess is they would avg 25,000 opening weekend with him rather than a more than likely 12-15,000 crowd.

Plus...you would not be tied to long contract either. I know it wont happen but yeah, as a fan of Manny the hitter, I would love to see that swing in GABP and Bruce and Votto reaping the benefits as well.

goreds2
12-29-2008, 12:06 AM
But it would be a smart move for the Reds to overpay a little and go 3 years. Manny would pay for himself in ticket sales, merchandising, and by improving this team dramatically, including the guys hitting around him. I know his defense sucks, but he is 100x the hitter Dunn is/was.



I know the LOCAL radio talk shows would love it plus the Reds would be talked about nationally.

Move over F___'IN CUBS!

GITTER DONE REDS!

jmac
12-29-2008, 12:17 AM
Dodgers offered 2 years - $45 mil and Boras never responded?

BWAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Fun watching how this all plays out.

I was wishing the Reds would offer 2 years - $50 mill. I guess it's not enough.

CF Taveras - Dickerson
2B Phillips - 20 homers
RF Bruce - 30 homers
LF Ramirez - 35 homers
1B Votto - 30 homers
3B Encarnacion - 25 homers
SS Gonzo-Keppinger
C

Some serious pop in the lineup and hopefully Ramirez and could hit .285 or better.

I doubt you would have to worry about that. I think Manny will hit for high avg till time to hang it up.

fourrunhomer
12-31-2008, 03:35 PM
The more I think about it, offer him two years $50mil option for a third year. It's higher than the Dodgers offered. I think that would make us contenders. I really like the lineup in the previous post. I think he could get used to hitting in GABP. If nothing else, it drives up his price and hopefully somebody will have to dump somebody we could use.

reds1869
12-31-2008, 03:39 PM
The more I think about it, offer him two years $50mil option for a third year. It's higher than the Dodgers offered. I think that would make us contenders. I really like the lineup in the previous post. I think he could get used to hitting in GABP. If nothing else, it drives up his price and hopefully somebody will have to dump somebody we could use.

I agree. If we drive up the price but he does not sign here (and he won't), it will create a domino efect that will help us out.

I(heart)Freel
12-31-2008, 05:42 PM
When I started reading this thread, it was more out of amusement. Pipe dreams, really, to think Manny would come here.

And that ultimately is still the hurdle to overcome: he gets to decide where he goes.

But for giggles, I thought... well, let's see how a 3-year, $75 million contract looks on paper.

Bear with me... it's amazingly DO-ABLE, darn close to the constraints we know the Reds have.

(Side note: some on here keep thinking BCast can up the payroll $20 mill and still turn a tidy profit blahblahblah. I don't think that's the case. I tend to take them at their word when they say next year's payroll should be about $80 million, with the new media revenue etc.)

So if they're willing to go to $80 mill... maybe for a game changer like Manny, they'd go $90 mill. One wonders... could winning mean $10 mill more at the gate?

Here's how it could look:


2009

Without trading any contracts, and assuming Weathers and Edwin make a combined $6 mill in arbitration, payroll would be $90 mill. That's 10 contracts (including Manny's $25 mill) worth $79.38 + 13 league minimum salaries ($5.2 mill) + $6 mill in arbitration.

2010

AGon's contract comes off the books (and would prolly have to be replaced cheaply by Kepp or Janish). Weathers is likely gone. Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, Tavares and Lincoln get their raises. Most of the youngsters are in last year of their league minimum status. The bench would have to be young and cheap. Weathers would have to be replaced by a cheap arm. Edwin, Kepp, Burton and Bray presumably get a little raise in arbitration. All told, it's $88 mill before the arbitration figures for those guys. Perhaps shedding a contract or two this year would help get this total down in the low $90s.

2011

$48 mill in contracts (BPhil, Cordero and Manny). Option years for Arroyo and Harang (worth $13 mill each). Votto, Volquez and Cueto all hit arbitration together. Could be costly. Might have to think about picking up either Harang OR Arroyo (not both). Would have to fill out bench and bullpen with young/cheap players. Would have to turn to Stubbs et al. for centerfield duties. Add it up and it's $65 before arbitration cases (and picking up just Harang's option). Could be creative with Votto and Dominican Dandies, giving them multi year deals that are back-loaded to make 2010 work out.


I have all of this in a nice spreadsheet but I'm having issues formatting correctly on here.

Suffice it to say... I know it's a pipe dream and improbable (to say the least) but it was interesting to look at actual numbers and see that right now, it's not *that* far over budget.

BEETTLEBUG
12-31-2008, 05:54 PM
I'm in for bring Manny here for 50mil with third year option.

I(heart)Freel
01-02-2009, 06:22 PM
Think the Mystery Team wears red?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/01/02/scoop.freeagents/index.html?eref=writers


13. Manny Ramirez, OF. The Dodgers remain the favorite to keep Ramirez, but the rival Giants loom as a major threat. L.A. wants to keep it to two years but eventually gave in on a third year for Rafael Furcal, and will probably have to do the same with the man who saved the franchise last season. All along, San Francisco has said it might take a stab at one of the "big three'' (and the other two, Sabathia and Teixeira, are gone already), so it stands to reason that they're in for Ramirez, the perfect antidote for their moribund offense. The Angels say they're out, but he'll still be tempting for them as well. Then there's always that so-called mystery team to contend with.

757690
01-03-2009, 12:27 AM
I have a feeling that the mystery team is in Boras head. Funny, it seems that every player that Boras represents has a mystery team bidding on him.