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Krusty
12-24-2008, 02:31 PM
Just wondering if there might be a match with the Reds and Brewers? Brewers need pitching with the departures of Sheets and Sabbathia. Reds need a righthanded corner hitting outfielder. Hart struggled down the stretch but still has an upside and will be only 27 years old.....which he will be entering the prime of his baseball career.

So would an Arroyo for Hart work for both sides?

As much as I hate to give up Arroyo, the Reds have options with Bailey, Owings, Ramirez and maybe a veteran free agent for the fourth and fifth spots.

Opinion?

red-in-la
12-24-2008, 02:41 PM
Maybe they could trade Volquez for him.....;)

TRF
12-24-2008, 02:44 PM
I don't see the fit here. First of all I think handedness is overrated, but even if Walt and the Reds don't, Why would they want Hart? He really isn't a power hitter, and struggles in the OBP department. He's Brandon Phillips minus the D. He's played 406 games in the major leagues and has yet to crack 100 BB's IN HIS CAREER.

Pass on Hart for me.

Krusty
12-24-2008, 02:46 PM
Or maybe trade with the Yankees for Xavier Nady?

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=294558&statType=1

Krusty
12-24-2008, 02:48 PM
I don't see the fit here. First of all I think handedness is overrated, but even if Walt and the Reds don't, Why would they want Hart? He really isn't a power hitter, and struggles in the OBP department. He's Brandon Phillips minus the D. He's played 406 games in the major leagues and has yet to crack 100 BB's IN HIS CAREER.

Pass on Hart for me.

The guy is only 27 years old. His best years are to come. He has a nice blend of power/speed potential. Plus, he is solid defensively and has a reasonable contract. Isn't this the type of hitter the Reds are looking for in their outfield?

TRF
12-24-2008, 02:53 PM
The guy is only 27 years old. His best years are to come. He has a nice blend of power/speed potential. Plus, he is solid defensively and has a reasonable contract. Isn't this the type of hitter the Reds are looking for in their outfield?

I certainly hope not. Just because he's entering his prime age years, doesn't mean he'll be better than he's been. He doesn't get on base. he doesn't walk. he hits for less power than BP.

KronoRed
12-24-2008, 02:56 PM
He's a hacker who is alergic to walks, no thanks.

Raisor
12-24-2008, 03:13 PM
Reds need more guys that get on base.

Ron Madden
12-24-2008, 03:14 PM
Pass. He makes too many outs.

SteelSD
12-24-2008, 03:29 PM
No way. Guys like Hart, Xavier Nady, and Juan Rivera are all the same animal- extremely volatile low-IsoD pyrite.

Raisor
12-24-2008, 03:34 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nDA0ui3MoaYl4M:http://www.canadiancontent.net/images/people/picture/Corey-Hart.jpg

marcshoe
12-24-2008, 03:39 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nDA0ui3MoaYl4M:http://www.canadiancontent.net/images/people/picture/Corey-Hart.jpg


Which is another reason the answer should be no.

TRF
12-24-2008, 03:53 PM
Really, how can he play great defense if he's wearing his sunglasses at night?

dougdirt
12-24-2008, 04:16 PM
Really, how can he play great defense if he's wearing his sunglasses at night?

They are those nike ones that filter the light just right and improve the vision. Like these :cool:

Highlifeman21
12-24-2008, 04:46 PM
Just wondering if there might be a match with the Reds and Brewers? Brewers need pitching with the departures of Sheets and Sabbathia. Reds need a righthanded corner hitting outfielder. Hart struggled down the stretch but still has an upside and will be only 27 years old.....which he will be entering the prime of his baseball career.

So would an Arroyo for Hart work for both sides?

As much as I hate to give up Arroyo, the Reds have options with Bailey, Owings, Ramirez and maybe a veteran free agent for the fourth and fifth spots.

Opinion?

Corey Hart does wear his sunglasses at night, so he's got that goin' for him.

11larkin11
12-24-2008, 10:51 PM
I know OBP is important, but it seems to me the Reds are fine at getting on base. They just can't score once they get there. I don't have the stats to back me up right now, but I would guess we are always at the top of the league in LOB. Maybe we should be targeting guys with high AVG w/ RISP.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-24-2008, 11:16 PM
One of the most overrated players in baseball.

TRF
12-24-2008, 11:32 PM
I know OBP is important, but it seems to me the Reds are fine at getting on base. They just can't score once they get there. I don't have the stats to back me up right now, but I would guess we are always at the top of the league in LOB. Maybe we should be targeting guys with high AVG w/ RISP.

Who besides Votto and EE is good at getting on base? I'm hoping Dickerson is, but he isn't proven at the MLB level.

This is not a good offense right now.

marcshoe
12-24-2008, 11:33 PM
Seriously, I liked Gabe Gross better than Corey Hart. btw, I remember there was some speculation that Tampa Bay might nontender Gross, but since I haven't heard anything, I'm assuming they held onto him? Would've been a nice fourth outfielder.

Blitz Dorsey
12-24-2008, 11:43 PM
Teams don't usually like trading with teams in their own division. There are exceptions obviously, but I don't envision the Reds and Brewers pulling off a trade anytime soon.

Ltlabner
12-25-2008, 07:11 AM
YEAR NAME AGE PA EqA OBP SLG OUTR VORP RAR RAP
2008 Corey Hart 26 657 .260 .300 .459 0.67884 11.1 21.6 -12.7
2007 Corey Hart 25 566 .293 .353 .539 0.63251 39.2 39.6 16.0
2006 Corey Hart 24 256 .258 .328 .468 0.66406 4.2 7.7 -4.3
2005 Corey Hart 23 63 .227 .270 .368 0.71429 -1.5 -.2 -.3

Groovy song. Not so groovy baseball player.

One good year in 2007 and the rest of the time he's a hacking out-machine who has scored more runs than your average right fielder exactly once.

Pass.

Ltlabner
12-25-2008, 07:14 AM
I know OBP is important, but it seems to me the Reds are fine at getting on base.

Actually they have problems in both departments. They can't get on base, and when they do they end up stranded because the next guy in line is busy getting himself out.

Check out here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73240) There are 5 guys on the list of existing likely Reds players who aren't OBP challenged. Only 2 of those guys are a safe bet to repeat themselves in 2009.

When only 22% of your lineup can find first base with regularity you are the opposite of "fine" at getting on base.

mth123
12-25-2008, 08:06 AM
Just wondering if there might be a match with the Reds and Brewers? Brewers need pitching with the departures of Sheets and Sabbathia. Reds need a righthanded corner hitting outfielder. Hart struggled down the stretch but still has an upside and will be only 27 years old.....which he will be entering the prime of his baseball career.

So would an Arroyo for Hart work for both sides?

As much as I hate to give up Arroyo, the Reds have options with Bailey, Owings, Ramirez and maybe a veteran free agent for the fourth and fifth spots.

Opinion?

If the Reds deal a 200 inning league average starter to Milwaukee in order to accept a downgrade to a swingman like Owings in its rotation, the return needs to include:

1. Alcides Escobar
2. Jon Lucroy or Angel Salome
3. A pricey veteran stopgap bat, maybe Bill Hall

Number 1 and 2 fill the Reds 2 biggest needs. Number three evens the money a bit making the top 2 possible and could fill the curent hole with Hall at 3B and EdE to LF. Not a big Hall fan, but I like him better than Kepp. Hall kills lefties and is weak against RH. Maybe he could split time with Adam Rosales at 3B. Rosales hits righties (even though he is RH) and struggles against Lefties. The IF defense would be much improved with Escobar at SS and Hall/Rosales at 3B. Lucroy would be my preference over Salome because he's a better defender behind the plate but either would probably be the Reds catcher in 2010. If its Salome, he has enough bat to still have some value as a 1B/LF/DH even if he can't catch. He'd probably need to be dealt to the AL to realize that value.

The Reds need solutions at SS and C so badly, that If giving up a solid inning eating starter and taking Hall's contract back isn't enough, I'd gladly add some guys to fill some other needs. The Brewers need a successor to Mike Cameron (Drew Stubbs would be a good fit in this deal) and guys for the bullpen (Roenicke? Bray? Masset?). If they deal Hall and a SS they may need IF depth as well (Valaika? Keppinger?).

These teams actually make a pretty decent match for a deal, so I'm pretty sure it will never happen.

Raisor
12-25-2008, 08:18 AM
I know OBP is important, but it seems to me the Reds are fine at getting on base. They just can't score once they get there. I don't have the stats to back me up right now, but I would guess we are always at the top of the league in LOB. Maybe we should be targeting guys with high AVG w/ RISP.


The Reds were 14th in the NL in OBP in 08, and that was with partial seasons from Dunn and Junior.

An interesting side note, the 1976 Reds own the NL single season record of leaving men on base.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/recbooks/left_on_base_records.shtml
They were 1 OBP point away from being tied for 15th.

They are actually the opposite of "fine" at getting on base.

Raisor
12-25-2008, 08:39 AM
Here's the team to try to copy.

C 356/472 656 PA

1B 367/431 723 PA

2B 333/382 729 PA

3B 354/476 694 PA

SS 330/451 748 PA

LF 394/534 714 PA

CF 355/551 718 PA

RF 330/445 702 PA

Get close to that and you're looking at 800 RS.

Highlifeman21
12-25-2008, 04:27 PM
Here's the team to try to copy.

C 356/472 656 PA

1B 367/431 723 PA

2B 333/382 729 PA

3B 354/476 694 PA

SS 330/451 748 PA

LF 394/534 714 PA

CF 355/551 718 PA

RF 330/445 702 PA

Get close to that and you're looking at 800 RS.

Given what we currently have on the roster, I'd be extremely happy with 725 RS.

PuffyPig
12-25-2008, 05:00 PM
I know OBP is important, but it seems to me the Reds are fine at getting on base. They just can't score once they get there. I don't have the stats to back me up right now, but I would guess we are always at the top of the league in LOB. Maybe we should be targeting guys with high AVG w/ RISP.

Firstly, the best way to score runners on base is to get more runners on base.

Secondly, batters with high AVG w/RISP probably have high AVG. "Clutch" is probably a small sample sixe and likely not repeatable.

And thirdly, the teams that get the most runners on base usually are the ones that leave the most on base.

Raisor
12-25-2008, 05:14 PM
I don't have the stats to back me up right now, but I would guess we are always at the top of the league in LOB. .

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/stats/teamsort/regularseason/yearly/MLB/HIT/EXT?&_1:col_1=12&_1:col_2=12


By the way, the Reds were actually had the 7th LEAST amount of runners LOB.

WVRedsFan
12-25-2008, 08:35 PM
Of the six possible starters, not counting LF or CF because that's up in the air, you get:

Votto - .368 OBP
Phillips- .312
Kepp - .310
Edwin - .340
Bruce - .314
Herna - .308

Of those 6, jonly Votto and Encarnacion are decent. There's your problem. Dye with his .344 would be a good acquisition, but Hart and Nady would only add to our miseries in scoring runs. I like OBP to be up around .330 to be acceptable.

RedsManRick
12-25-2008, 09:51 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/stats/teamsort/regularseason/yearly/MLB/HIT/EXT?&_1:col_1=12&_1:col_2=12


By the way, the Reds were actually had the 7th LEAST amount of runners LOB.

2/3 of "LOB" is "OB". That's where the Reds' problem lay. It's hard to leave runners on base who couldn't get there in the first place.

edabbs44
12-25-2008, 09:55 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Hart on Cincy, dependent upon the method of acquiring him.