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View Full Version : I love the fact that we haven't come up with the right deal for a LeftFielder.



Kingspoint
12-26-2008, 05:14 PM
Because I think Left Field isn't an issue and that there are more than half-a-dozen solutions that will play Left Field well in 2009. There's no reason to trade away any pitching for a Left Fielder. There are only about 730 plate appearances available in Left Field and that can easily be divided among 7 players throughout the season. Those 7 players combined should also be able to produce above average defense in Left Field as the average Left Fielder defensively (Adam Dunn) is poor, at best. Offensively, the total of those 7 players should be able to collectively produce average results by the end of the year. Average results is fine for one season when the Defense is going to be above average and the pitching is going to be above average. These seven players are will do more of the little things that Adam Dunn couldn't do to win ballgames.

Seeing that Walt Jockety hasn't obtained a starting Leftfielder yet reassures me that he continues to see the state of the REDS exactly as I do...and that's a good thing.

Come September 2009 (8 months from now), Alonzo should be starting at 1st Base, and either Votto or Encarnacion should be starting in Left Field. There's no reason to have some other guy clogging their developments, especially at the cost of some pitching that we currently have on our team.

BLEEDS
12-26-2008, 05:26 PM
"Average" results = :lastyear:

Allegedly, :castellini: wants people in the stands in September 2009 to be going:
:jump:

instead of:

:sleep::barf::rant2::runawaycr :dunno: :all_cohol

PEACE

-BLEEDS

TheNext44
12-26-2008, 05:53 PM
"Average" results = :lastyear:

Allegedly, :castellini: wants people in the stands in September 2009 to be going:
:jump:

instead of:

:sleep::barf::rant2::runawaycr :dunno: :all_cohol

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Last year the Reds were well below average at CF, C, SS and below average at RF. They stand to be at least average at C, and CF and above average at RF. Add in Kingspoint point that the defense will be much better, and the pitching should be better, and that means that even if they get league average production out of LF, they should be much better than last year.

And regardless of how you think individual players will perform next year, if the Reds had "Average" results from everyone, than they would be much better than they were last year. Last year the Reds were below average, as their record proves.

Now, I disagree with Kingspoint that Alonzo will be ready by the end of this year. I think the earliest is the end of next year, and that is stretching it. So I think that there should be an addition in LF to hold the fort until he, or Frazier, or Dorn, or whoever is ready from the minors.

I do agree with your point that Cast wants a winner this year, but I think that is possible without adding a huge bat in LF.

Orodle
12-26-2008, 06:27 PM
I dont think the Reds need a huge bat in LF, would I like one? Of course. However, the Rays got away with not having a huge bat all season. Sure, guys like Longoria, Pena, Upton did amazing a certain points in the season but they lacked the "huge" MVP type bat all season. I just want consistency at the plate and above average defense.

Ecarnacion needs to have his breakout season at the plate, then the RHB problem is solved.

redsfanmia
12-26-2008, 07:40 PM
The Reds should stand pat and bargain shop when guys are scrambling to find jobs in February.

757690
12-26-2008, 09:06 PM
I think the reds need a big rh bat for the middle of the lineup. It is not just a matter of runs created, it is a matter of changing the dynamic of the lineup. Without a big scarry bat to change the way pitchers approach the lineup, it will never score enough runs to be competative.

Emin3mShady07
12-26-2008, 10:03 PM
I think the reds should just move Alonso straight to left field. According to the fielding bible, Joey Votto was a well above average 1B last year so I don't really think it is a great idea to move him to left. Anyways, the key to this is that the players the reds have available produce league average reslts for a LFer. I mean if its guys like Hariston, I'd say he'd regress to his career norms and be less than a league average LFer, and others fill in less than admirably, then the reds would be in a similar scenario this september when compared to last september. While the reds may be ok next year without doing anyhing to significanlt upgrade LF (ie with a Pat burrell or Jermaine Dye) if they plan on being a better team in 2009, I would say it would greatly benefit them to make a move to acquire a player similar to the guys I mentioned before.

flash
12-26-2008, 10:56 PM
I am beginning to believe the idea of standing pat in left field may be a decent option. Consider the following.

The Reds have signed Hopper. I know that many are unsure of him over a full season. I can understand why. But he did show an ability to hit when he was healthy before and his fielding and range factor were also superior before.

The Reds also have options with Keppinger, Castillo, Rosales, and Heisey. I believe someone also mentioned Frazier. It is only my opinion, but I believe if a player can handle 3rd or short he should be able to handle the outfield. None of the above has significant power, but all of them have demonstrated the ability to get on base. They all bat righthanded also. With the exception of Vailaka they have also demonstrated the abilty to hit with runners on. Why not open it up?

BTW, I have no opposition to bringing back Hairston.

UPRedsFan
01-01-2009, 07:15 PM
Keppinger had an injury plagued year last year and still agains LHP put up a line of .360/.412/.489!!

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of not taking any risks for a left fielder (i.e. no 3 yr expensive contracts and don't trade away any pitching)

A Keppinger/Dickeron platoon in left field could OPS above .800 this year.

Why not do that and wait for the youngsters?

ChatterRed
01-02-2009, 02:37 AM
For the first time in years, the Reds seem to have a farm system that is producing potential major leaguers. Jim Bowden used to trade it all away before it developed. I'm glad to see Walt and Bob not giving it away.

On the other hand, there have been a couple of FA's I thought they might have tried for that wouldn't cost us our farm system.

I'm fine with standing pat and giving the young guys another year to develop and see where we stand.

NorrisHopper30
01-02-2009, 02:52 AM
It's still the beginning of January. There is plenty of time for plenty of moves.

Hybrid
01-02-2009, 09:37 AM
It's still the beginning of January. There is plenty of time for plenty of moves.

Exactly
Just because no moves have been made, doesn't mean the team is "standing pat"...it's a long time between now and the start of Spring Training and there are still a group of players out there who could help this team. I don't think the Reds are done...at least I hope they aren't.

I(heart)Freel
01-02-2009, 10:16 AM
Like the Reds used to do with pitching, maybe the plan is to wait it out and then sign a bunch of LF candidates to minor league deals and see what creme rises to the surface during spring training?

Still... I think the Reds have the payroll right now to land a legit LFer. By all accounts, they're still $10-14 mill away from their stated ceiling. And the only "holes" in the 25-man roster I can see are (1) the left-fielder and (2) a PH specialist on the bench.

I hope they go git the LFer with the money, and then approach the PHer with the earlier stated rising creme theory.

RED VAN HOT
01-02-2009, 06:56 PM
I am not exactly happy with the LF situation, but considering the trade alternatives, I am relieved. Of all the people discussed, the only one that was appealing was Holliday and a contract extension. The problem with Nady is the same as it was with Holliday. I don't believe Boras will negotiate an extension acceptable to the Reds. I suspect that the Rockies had explored an extension with Holliday before deciding to trade him. Every day that the Reds did not get Bradley or Dye I was a little less anxious. I can't see this team making any real progress by overpaying in young talent for expensive one year rentals.

I am satisfied with the direction in which WJ is going. Since a small market team cannot go after the big name FA's, it can best compete by building a team of players that fit position profiles well...power on the corners..defense and speed up the middle, etc. Defense can usually be purchased more cheaply than offense. Taveras was a move in that direction. He is part of the continuing move from the power intensive strategy with which they began 2008, to a more balanced attack capable of scratching out runs against good pitching to win 2-1 games. IMO, Taveras will benefit the Reds more than DeRosa will benefit the Indians.

I agree that there are a number of LF field candidates worth considering in the spring. Although the Reds have been methodical in advancing players through all levels, a jump from AA is not out of the question. As a fan I can be patient if I see a plan that portends year to year improvement and some hope for a playoff birth before I die.

texasdave
01-02-2009, 09:18 PM
It's still the beginning of January. There is plenty of time for plenty of moves.

Which is exactly why there was no rush to sign Taveras to a ridiculous 2-year contract last week. There will be better players that teams wll attempt to sneak through on waivers at the end of Spring Training than WT. A ridiculous signing (especially at this time) by Jocketty.

CesarGeronimo
01-03-2009, 02:52 AM
Keppinger had an injury plagued year last year and still agains LHP put up a line of .360/.412/.489!!

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of not taking any risks for a left fielder (i.e. no 3 yr expensive contracts and don't trade away any pitching)

A Keppinger/Dickeron platoon in left field could OPS above .800 this year.

Why not do that and wait for the youngsters?

I can hardly believe that I'd say this, but I think that given the current situation that wouldn't be bad idea until one of the other young guys takes the spot in late 2009/early 2010. You're right that those two guys would produce pretty well in such a platoon, albeit not with the power that you'd ultimately want in LF. I can't see Dusty using such a platoon, but maybe if the order came from higher up.

If the Reds could use their scarce resources, by trades or signings, to improve the left side of the infield this offseason, I wouldn't mind sticking with what they have in left field for now. I think the platoon you propose would hit better than Jerry Hairston, but Dusty would rather have a vet like Hairston in left, even if it means paying a few more million.

CincyRed44
01-03-2009, 04:21 AM
I'm not so worried about the LF situation. We have capable platoons (if we resign JHJ) I do not want to trade good, young talent for a one year rental of anyone (Dye, Nady, Matsui, etc.) nor am I interested in a two or three year clogging of player development with elderly, expensive players such as (Burrell, Abreu, etc.) Simply put, I don't feel one bat will help us win a pennant in 2009, no matter how bad I want it to be the missing link. One thing is for certain, our OF defense will be greatly improved with Dickerson, Hairston, Taveras, Bruce over last years edition. Heck we may steal 100 -125 bases with these guys. Love putting pressure on the defense:D

My greatest concern is SS. I'd like Walt to call up the Rays exploring a possible acquisition of Reid Brignac or the LAA concerning Brandon Wood. SS is a black hole for the Reds with a possible solution still setting two or three years away (Valaika/Cozart). I'd love to see AGon return to full force but I'm not sure he will ever be right again.

My next concern is defense at 3B, EE can make the spectacular but he seems to have trouble with the routine plus his live, scattergun arm allows several extra baserunners for the opposition, not to mention the extra, unnecessary pitches the staff must throw. Is it in the realm of possiblility to obtain Jonathan Sanchez with EE + a mddiling relief pitching prospect? Then, would Joe Crede be an adequate one year stopgap to Todd Frazier? Don't know but it's fun to speculate.