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View Full Version : We must either sign Abreu, trade for Nady or do something really crazy



Phhhl
12-28-2008, 02:23 AM
Righty-lefty be damned, the best thing the club could do without giving up any talent is overwhelm one of the most patient hitters in baseball with a three year deal for ridiculous amounts of money. Votto is the only player slated to start with a pulse when it comes to pitch selection. Placing Abreu in the middle of the order like the Great Wall of China seperating the windmills at the top from the seives thereafter would seem to be the only chance left to build some semblence of an offense without giving up talent. Since we all know that has virtually no chance of happening as long as the Cubs and Red Sox of this world require his services, maybe plan B could restore some hope...

Xavier Nady is a very solid middle of the order hitter that would fit perfectly between Bruce and Votto. So, we are rolling bones once that is done in hopes that his performance over the last couple years is not a mirage. I still like it much better than Homer and more to the Sox for Jermaine Dye. I would give up something of value for Nady.

Other names that may be available if there is gridlock on those... How about the penny pinching Padres sending us Scott Hairston to platoon with Chris Dickerson for Josh Roenicke? That guy could do some damage in a hitter's park like GAB. Or, and 90% of you are going to kick me in the head and I would too if I wasn't the guy bringing it up, how about Andruw Jones on the last gasp of breath in his career for Homer and half Jones' salary? The Dodgers are thin at starting pitching, and Jones would seem to be the ultimate lightning in a bottle candidate if he came in the ten million dollar range. HUGE risk, but potential for HUGE reward. Maybe he is not a centerfielder anymore, but left field could be much more to his liking. The guy has routinely averaged around 75 to 100 points higher in obp than he has in batting average throuhout his entire career.

If the Reds truly have around 10 mil to spend, it is past time to get creative about what to do with this offense. The starting pitching might be there for a breakout season, and the bullpen can arguably be very solid. But, this garbage about signing Hairston to play every day and the Baldelli buzz is unacceptable for a team that needs to be bold to move up in a very competitive division. I don't think there any ideal answers, but these are a few that I have been thinking of.

RedEye
12-28-2008, 09:03 AM
I think acquiring Nady or Abreu could help, but I don't think it would overcome the damage of having Taveras leading off for most of the year. This offense is going to be a serious snooze in 2009.

LoganBuck
12-28-2008, 11:07 AM
Something crazy is probably the choice.

I keep dwelling on just how horrendously bad Taveras is. The prospect of having JHJ in left is just something I don't want to even think about. Next thing you know Walt will bring in Jeff Francouer.

Jpup
12-28-2008, 12:50 PM
Something crazy is probably the choice.

I keep dwelling on just how horrendously bad Taveras is. The prospect of having JHJ in left is just something I don't want to even think about. Next thing you know Walt will bring in Jeff Francouer.

He would have been a better option than Tavares.

Falls City Beer
12-28-2008, 01:01 PM
Reds have to trade some pitching and prospects for a SS and/or 3B.

remdog
12-28-2008, 03:28 PM
Do something crazy? We just did something crazy! We apparently paid real money to Willie (bleepin') Tavaras!

I notice no one seems to want to talk about how much money we wasted here. Wait till that shoe drops! Ugly, ugly, ugly.

Rem

Matt700wlw
12-28-2008, 04:12 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/more-jocketty-t.html

The Reds have been in discussion with the New York Yankees about their extra outfielders, but no deals are close.

Nady?

dougdirt
12-28-2008, 04:16 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/more-jocketty-t.html

The Reds have been in discussion with the New York Yankees about their extra outfielders, but no deals are close.

Nady?
I will take either Nady or Swisher. I won't be picky. Both should OPS over .800 next year and the Reds need to add as many good bats to the lineup as possible.

Caveat Emperor
12-28-2008, 04:30 PM
I will take either Nady or Swisher. I won't be picky. Both should OPS over .800 next year and the Reds need to add as many good bats to the lineup as possible.

Swisher would provide the team with a badly-needed additional OBP-threat that isn't BA-driven. At this point, he makes so much sense as an acquisition that I doubt he's even on Walt's radar:

* Age-Prime (27)
* Good OBP (career: .354)
* Ability to take a walk (avg 91 per 162g)
* 25+ HR power
* Coming off a down year where he was hit-unlucky (.251 BIP) despite a consistent LD% (20.1)
* Athletic enough to be a plus-defender in LF (+6.3 UZR per fangraphs)

An outfield of Swisher - Taveras - Bruce would actually provide the Reds a decent outfield defense and possibly enough offense from the corners to carry the dead-weight in CF. Swisher, in GABP against NL pitching, has the potential to be the 100 run bat the Reds desperately need.

The target is probably Nady, though.

OnBaseMachine
12-28-2008, 04:33 PM
Swisher would be an excellent acquisition, IMO. I'm not sure why Jocketty didn't jump in on him before he was traded to the Yankees. The Yanks got him for basically nothing. His bat/defense would be a great addition to this team.

RedlegNation
12-28-2008, 05:09 PM
Swisher would be an excellent acquisition, IMO. I'm not sure why Jocketty didn't jump in on him before he was traded to the Yankees.

Because Jocketty had targetted Willy Taveras.

I think we all need to just go ahead and accept that the Reds have no chance of being competitive in 2009. I'm usually very optimistic; this is the first time in a long time that I had no hope going into a season.

Ron Madden
12-28-2008, 08:33 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/more-jocketty-t.html

The Reds have been in discussion with the New York Yankees about their extra outfielders, but no deals are close.

Nady?

I'd settle for Nady but I'd rather have Swisher.

Highlifeman21
12-28-2008, 09:36 PM
Reds have to trade some pitching and prospects for a SS and/or 3B.

What pitching do we have to trade?

Last time I checked, we're still thin in that department.

Falls City Beer
12-28-2008, 09:39 PM
What pitching do we have to trade?

Last time I checked, we're still thin in that department.

Arroyo for a SS ideally. There are other Arroyo-level starters out there that won't cost $12 million.

remdog
12-28-2008, 09:41 PM
Arroyo for a SS ideally. There are other Arroyo-level starters out there that won't cost $12 million.

I agree that Arroyo is trade bait. The problem is as you mentioned in your second sentance: $12M.

Rem

Highlifeman21
12-28-2008, 09:42 PM
Arroyo for a SS ideally. There are other Arroyo-level starters out there that won't cost $12 million.

I agree that Arroyo is our best pitching trading chip, but then I fear that we'd now have open auditions for the 4th and 5th SP spot in the rotation instead of just the 5th...

That being said, if my choices were keep Arroyo or trade Arroyo for an upgrade to our current SS problem, I wouldn't hesitate to trade Arroyo.

Falls City Beer
12-28-2008, 09:43 PM
I agree that Arroyo is our best pitching trading chip, but then I fear that we'd now have open auditions for the 4th and 5th SP spot in the rotation instead of just the 5th...

That being said, if my choices were keep Arroyo or trade Arroyo for an upgrade to our current SS problem, I wouldn't hesitate to trade Arroyo.

I don't think Walt has many illusions about contending this season. He shouldn't anyway.

Highlifeman21
12-28-2008, 09:47 PM
I don't think Walt has many illusions about contending this season. He shouldn't anyway.

Even with 2009 being a punt season (and it has been for awhile, probably since July of the 2008 season), I'm worried that 2010 will also be a punt season if our auditions for the 4th and 5th SP spots don't go well in 2009.

Caveat Emperor
12-28-2008, 11:48 PM
Even with 2009 being a punt season (and it has been for awhile, probably since July of the 2008 season), I'm worried that 2010 will also be a punt season if our auditions for the 4th and 5th SP spots don't go well in 2009.

If a trade for Arroyo did happen, there would clearly be a need to acquire an above-league average SP in order for this team to have any chance.

paintmered
12-28-2008, 11:51 PM
If a trade for Arroyo did happen, there would clearly be a need to acquire an above-league average SP in order for this team to have any chance.

Andy Pettite is available.

WVRedsFan
12-29-2008, 12:13 AM
If a trade for Arroyo did happen, there would clearly be a need to acquire an above-league average SP in order for this team to have any chance.

True. And that's the problem. There is no great body of talent on this team whereby you could give up an Arroyo for something of value. If you did that, you then have to go buy someone to take his place. For years, we have been saddled with players no one else wants to take for something of value, unless you count the Josh Hamilton for Volquez trade, which was a huge gamble for both sides.

Caveat Emperor
12-29-2008, 12:22 AM
True. And that's the problem. There is no great body of talent on this team whereby you could give up an Arroyo for something of value. If you did that, you then have to go buy someone to take his place. For years, we have been saddled with players no one else wants to take for something of value, unless you count the Josh Hamilton for Volquez trade, which was a huge gamble for both sides.

The one somewhat mitigating factor is that there is no impact SS on the FA market, while there are (theoretically) a couple pitchers sitting out there that would be likely to replicate Arroyo's performance as a starter:

1. Derek Lowe
2. Ben Sheets
3. Oliver Perez

I'd possibly even include Randy Wolf on that list as well, though he'd be far from my top target.

The question is one of poison choice -- being locked into a longterm / high dollar deal with a pitcher or being stuck with a noodle-stick at SS while fielding an offensive black hole in CF.

Topcat
12-29-2008, 12:33 AM
I will take either Nady or Swisher. I won't be picky. Both should OPS over .800 next year and the Reds need to add as many good bats to the lineup as possible.

I want Both Doug and yes I go with Swisher in RF and Bruce in Center over Tavares. Range not as good over all lineup is far better improved. Sorry But the Tavares signing has be scared hit less :thumbdown.

I need to add this now known fact I am a little closer to god due to praying and wishing that Willy can become more than the nightmare his career profile has shown so far.

WVRedsFan
12-29-2008, 12:36 AM
The one somewhat mitigating factor is that there is no impact SS on the FA market, while there are (theoretically) a couple pitchers sitting out there that would be likely to replicate Arroyo's performance as a starter:

1. Derek Lowe
2. Ben Sheets
3. Oliver Perez

I'd possibly even include Randy Wolf on that list as well, though he'd be far from my top target.

The question is one of poison choice -- being locked into a longterm / high dollar deal with a pitcher or being stuck with a noodle-stick at SS while fielding an offensive black hole in CF.

I agree totally and see your point. That's why we have to hope Gonzalez is healthy enough to play at short and a big bat is acquired for left. As for trading Arroyo to gain that big batter, I wonder if the Reds want to take the chance of striking out with the Lowes, Sheets, Perez's and Wolfs of the world?

Blitz Dorsey
12-29-2008, 12:54 AM
The one somewhat mitigating factor is that there is no impact SS on the FA market, while there are (theoretically) a couple pitchers sitting out there that would be likely to replicate Arroyo's performance as a starter:

1. Derek Lowe
2. Ben Sheets
3. Oliver Perez

I'd possibly even include Randy Wolf on that list as well, though he'd be far from my top target.

The question is one of poison choice -- being locked into a longterm / high dollar deal with a pitcher or being stuck with a noodle-stick at SS while fielding an offensive black hole in CF.

I would say that Lowe and Sheets would do markedly better than Arroyo. Sheets would be an injury risk of course, but I'd still take him over Arroyo. And I could easily see Perez doing better than Arroyo, but I would put him at about equal to Arroyo due to inconsistency.

Topcat
12-29-2008, 02:34 AM
Fact the I realize that any gains this team has made is by showing guts in acquisitions. This team is not horrible. But if Taveras is on this teams roster other areas need to see spikes. EE must progress way better and to me that is as a left fielder or as a 1st baseman and Votto as a LF. 3rd base is an area to add a Beltre whom improves the D and adds offensive punch.

REDREAD
12-30-2008, 12:30 AM
Arroyo for a SS ideally. There are other Arroyo-level starters out there that won't cost $12 million.

That's precisely why it isn't the best time to trade Arroyo. Other teams will be thinking the same thing.

I'm thinking the best time to trade Arroyo is during the 2009 season. Hope that he gets off to a hot start and then he's potentially one of the better SP available at the deadline, with only 1.5 years left on his contract (IIRC, Arroyo's deal runs through 2010, but I am not sure).

The problem with SS now is that Walt inherited an expensive anchor named AGon. I'm sure after Cast had to eat all of those other Wayne contracts, he's not going to be too willing to throw AGon's contract on the BBQ. I expect Walt to be more aggressive at upgrading SS next offseason. Sadly, he's almost forced to give AGon a shot.

AmarilloRed
12-30-2008, 03:59 PM
This is some more of my trade speculation, but I thought I would put it out there:


MLB Trade Rumors: XM Radio Edition

Tiny by raygu on Dec 28, 2008 9:00 AM EST in Baseball

This afternoon while running a few errands I listened to the fairly new baseball show on XM 175 hosted by "Hacksaw" Jim Hamiliton (I think I got that right). He usually spends a few minutes going over some of the free agent and trade rumors he has read/heard and takes alot of calls from fans.

Today, he went through a list of trade rumors that I haven't heard recently. Here they are:

1. The Los Angeles Angels are talking to the White Sox about Paul Konerko
2. Texas is dangling 1bman Hank Blalock to the Orioles
3. The Yankees are talking to the Reds about an Xavier Nady for Homer Bailey swap
4. And for the 3rd week in a row, Hacksaw mentioned that Manny Ramirez had been offered a 3 year $75 million contract (presumably from the Dodgers).
5. He went on to say that he thought Scott Boras would attempt to get either the Baltimore Orioles or the Washington Nationals in on the Manny Ramirez talks to drive up the price for the Dodgers. He mentioned Manny is seeking a 4 year $100 million deal.
6. Finally, he interviewed LA Dodgers assistant GM Logan White. When asked about what other moves the Dodgers would make this offseason (ie will they sign Manny, and who will replace Saito?), White skirted around the Manny talks, but did say that LA was sticking with the youth movement, and we may see a few surprises this year.

I have a few ideas about what White was inferring, but will see how the offseason progresses to see if I am right.

http://www.faketeams.com/

I hope Homer Bailey for Xavier Nady will be done. I expect we will have to add a bit more, though.

jesusfan
12-30-2008, 04:07 PM
Nady would also look great between Bruce and Votto... Only problem is he is in the last year of his contract...

KoryMac5
12-30-2008, 04:15 PM
Nady loves to hit in GABP. His lifetime numbers are .385 BA .422 OBP 1.151 OPS in 95 career at bats. I would try and pry him away from the Yankees in a heart beat as I could see him hitting 30 to 35 homeruns for the Reds in 2009. Hopefully Walt stays away from Matsui and Cabrera.

flyer85
12-30-2008, 04:18 PM
now that the Snakes have signed Snyder I wish the Reds would have waited and tried to acquire Montero instead of bringing in Hernandez.

To this point the Reds seem to be focused on acquiring players who have a lack of ability to get on base. Nady would fit right in.

corkedbat
12-30-2008, 04:21 PM
Nady loves to hit in GABP. His lifetime numbers are .385 BA .422 OBP 1.151 OPS in 95 career at bats. I would try and pry him away from the Yankees in a heart beat as I could see him hitting 30 to 35 homeruns for the Reds in 2009. Hopefully Walt stays away from Matsui and Cabrera.


I'd take Nady for Homer in a heartbeat - then sign Baldelli (maybe Willy will just go away). Agreed - no thanks on Matsui. I thought the Skanks dealt Melky to the Brewskis?

corkedbat
12-30-2008, 04:23 PM
now that the Snakes have signed Snyder I wish the Reds would have waited and tried to acquire Montero instead of bringing in Hernandez.

To this point the Reds seem to be focused on acquiring players who have a lack of ability to get on base. Nady would fit right in.

Even with Ramon, I have no qualms about bringing in Montero. I like Hanigan as a backup, but no problems with more young depth at a position like catcher.

flyer85
12-30-2008, 04:26 PM
Even with Ramon, I have no qualms about bringing in Montero. I like Hanigan as a backup, but no problems with more young depth at a position like catcher.I wpould agree but I doubt the Reds have any interest.

mth123
12-30-2008, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't deal Bailey for a rental. Add something else and get Swisher instead.

Falls City Beer
12-30-2008, 05:21 PM
I wouldn't deal Bailey for a rental. Add something else and get Swisher instead.

Bailey + for Swisher?

Not interested in Ben Grieve II.

mth123
12-30-2008, 05:24 PM
Bailey + for Swisher?

Not interested in Ben Grieve II.

Rather have a one and done Nady?

Caveat Emperor
12-30-2008, 05:26 PM
Bailey + for Swisher?

Not interested in Ben Grieve II.

Solid OBP and plus-LF defense guaranteed plus the potential for 25-30 HRs in GABP all for the low low price of an underachieving pitching prospect in his last option year?

Where do I sign?

Caveat Emperor
12-30-2008, 05:34 PM
Rather have a one and done Nady?

Nady and his career .055 IsoD would usually get a big "pass" from me, unless the price was a lot of spare minor league parts, but he's certainly a better option in RF than Dickerson or Hopper.

However, having said that, there are better options for RF than a 30 year old Xavier Nady, who just posted career best numbers in AVG, OBP, SLG plus virtually every counting stat they keep.

mth123
12-30-2008, 05:57 PM
Nady and his career .055 IsoD would usually get a big "pass" from me, unless the price was a lot of spare minor league parts, but he's certainly a better option in RF than Dickerson or Hopper.

However, having said that, there are better options for RF than a 30 year old Xavier Nady, who just posted career best numbers in AVG, OBP, SLG plus virtually every counting stat they keep.

I wouldn't mind Nady for a year. I just wouldn't trade Bailey for him. Maloney, Lecure or somebody like that? OK. I'd guess the Yanks would rather have a reliever. Weathers for Swisher or Nady. It keeps the payroll in line and the Reds have lots of replacements for Weathers.

Falls City Beer
12-30-2008, 06:04 PM
Rather have a one and done Nady?

I keep shopping for even better. I don't think much of either Nady or Swisher.

Will M
12-30-2008, 09:28 PM
I wouldn't mind Nady for a year. I just wouldn't trade Bailey for him. Maloney, Lecure or somebody like that? OK. I'd guess the Yanks would rather have a reliever. Weathers for Swisher or Nady. It keeps the payroll in line and the Reds have lots of replacements for Weathers.

agree.

Nady is a good RH bat in his prime. Plays good defense. Can play 1B/LF/RF.
Would be nice for one year while we wait for Dorn, Alonso, Frazier,etc.

I still like Wiggington. 20+ homers. crushes LHP. can play 3B, LF, 1B or even 2B in a pinch.

Ltlabner
12-30-2008, 10:30 PM
YEAR NAME AGE PA EqA OBP SLG OUTR VORP RAR RAP
2008 (NYY) Xavier Nady 29 247 .270 .320 .474 0.67206 6.8 10.5 -2.0
2008 (PIT) Xavier Nady 29 360 .318 .383 .535 0.61667 30.7 35.0 18.5
2007 Xavier Nady 28 470 .271 .330 .476 0.65957 15.9 20.5 -0.3
2006 (PIT) Xavier Nady 27 220 .258 .352 .409 0.63636 3.0 6.1 -4.6
2006 (NYM) Xavier Nady 27 292 .272 .326 .487 0.66096 9.6 13.1 .7

Not my first choice, but if he can be had for a package of lesser prospects he wouldn't be the absolute worst choice in the world. I'd prefer Big Wiggy, but that's mostly because he has far greater nick-name potential.

AmarilloRed
12-31-2008, 12:44 PM
From mlbtraderumors.com:


According to ESPN's Buster Olney:

Keep hearing this: Players like Jason Giambi and Bobby Abreu might be forced, by circumstance, to settle for one-year offers.

I'd look at both of them if it is true we could get either on a 1 year deal.

Caveat Emperor
12-31-2008, 12:48 PM
I'd look at both of them if it is true we could get either on a 1 year deal.

It's why I'm not totally panicked about the LF situation.

Walt is being coy -- and waiting the market out might be the right move this year, especially with the mid-tier bats.

Not jumping all over Juan Rivera was undoubtedly the right move because better players will be signed for more reasonable deals.