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gobucks106
12-28-2008, 04:29 PM
With the Mark Teixeira signing with the Yankees it is rumored that they have a surplus of outfielders and that they may be shopping one of them. Depending on what we'd have to give up what would you give and who would you want? Nady or Swisher. I like Swisher, I think he's a switch hitter, can play all three outfield positions and first base. He's from Ohio and played at Ohio State. Not that I'd mind Nady but would prefer Swisher. They are both under contract and each made around 3.5 to 3.6 million. Thoughts anyone?

Orodle
12-28-2008, 05:19 PM
I like Swisher as well, but would they really be looking to move him after just aquireing him?

Emin3mShady07
12-28-2008, 05:34 PM
Well, I would rather have Swisher because of his career norms and the fact that he was ridiculously unlucky last year.

Xavier Nady .374 wOBA in 2008, .342 wOBA career, .335 OBP career
Nick Swisher .325 wOBA in 2008, .347 wOBA career, .354 OBP career

These were the UZR statistics from last year, and even though it is a small sample, I would say that Swisher is a superior hitter and fielder, and he is a switch hitter for whatever value that actually provides.

Xavier Nady LF (-1.2) CF ( -41.0) RF (0.5)
Nick Swisher LF ( 6.3 ) CF ( -10.3 ) RF ( 14.2 )

I got the numbers from here and the career OBP from baseball reference
http://advancedfantasybaseball.blogspot.com/2008/12/how-teixeira-deal-changes-yankees.html

Bip Roberts
12-28-2008, 06:06 PM
Id rather have Swisher for sure.

Newman4
12-28-2008, 07:23 PM
Either are better than Norris Hopper. :D

I prefer Swisher myself since as mentioned he did go to Ohio State and is from Parkersburg WV and he had a "buy low" season last year. He also is a switch hitter. Just my .02.

Blood Red Path
12-28-2008, 09:56 PM
Swisher? Really?

Why are so many reds fans obsessed with having a sub-.250 hitter manning LF everyday?

We already got rid of that problem. Why welcome it back?

Bumstead
12-29-2008, 04:12 PM
Blood Red Path...Dusty? Is that you? No more 'base-cloggers' for sure...:rolleyes:

Blood Red Path
12-29-2008, 04:17 PM
I'm not asking for a low OBP guy, just a guy a who will swing at a 3-2 pitch now and then, and maybe get a respectable number of HITS.

Emin3mShady07
12-29-2008, 04:21 PM
Swisher? Really?

Why are so many reds fans obsessed with having a sub-.250 hitter manning LF everyday?

We already got rid of that problem. Why welcome it back?

Well, when that sub .250 hitter is the teams best player because he makes less outs than anyone else (aka a higher OBP), hits more homeruns, has one of the best wOBAs in the majors at .392, and last year was a better baserunner than Brandon Phillips (according to the bill james handbook, which you probably take issue with looking at your sig) It would probably be a great thing to welcome it back. Unfortunately, Swisher is no where near the hitter that Adam Dunn is. Swisher is easily an uprgrade in left defensively and will most likely bounce back from last year and will most likely fill in the void left by Dunn a lot better than guys like Rocco Baldelli and chris dickerson.

Blood Red Path
12-29-2008, 04:28 PM
Well, when that sub .250 hitter is the teams best player because he makes less outs than anyone else (aka a higher OBP), hits more homeruns, has one of the best wOBAs in the majors at .392, and last year was a better baserunner than Brandon Phillips (according to the bill james handbook, which you probably take issue with looking at your sig) It would probably be a great thing to welcome it back. Unfortunately, Swisher is no where near the hitter that Adam Dunn is. Swisher is easily an uprgrade in left defensively and will most likely bounce back from last year and will most likely fill in the void left by Dunn a lot better than guys like Rocco Baldelli and chris dickerson.

I agree with most of what you said, my only problem with Dunn was that he looked at too many 3-2 pitches, causing him to walk alot, yes, but also forcing too many strikeouts and taking away chances for more hits. No guy with that much power should be watching 3-2 pitches sail harmlessly over the middle of the plate. Swisher has the same ineptitude for recording Hits, while not providing the power advantages of a Adam Dunn... therefore we would be keeping the same problem without reaping any of the benefits that dunn occasionally provided.

Bip Roberts
12-29-2008, 04:31 PM
Swisher is probably going to take less to get and is better than Nady imo :o

Blood Red Path
12-29-2008, 04:32 PM
Swisher is easily an uprgrade in left defensively and will most likely bounce back from last year and will most likely fill in the void left by Dunn a lot better than guys like Rocco Baldelli and chris dickerson.

I am not asking for those guys to be the answer to the LF-dilemma, give me Dye, Nady, Abreu, etc. or more optimistically, give me Ethier or Kemp after one of those guys likely becomes expendable under the scenario that i laid out in the Manny thread.

Bip Roberts
12-29-2008, 04:38 PM
Career OPS+
Swisher 112 (highest 127)
Nady 108 (128)
Dye 112 (151)
Abreu 133 (151)

out of those 4 guys Id probably take Swisher although Abreu wouldnt be bad but pricetag and age is meh

Bip Roberts
12-29-2008, 04:44 PM
Id like to see someone with a bit of an average in the middle of the order also but I'm not sure its really going to be possible. Of course we will split lefties since thats just how its done in the dusty leagues.

Bumstead
12-29-2008, 06:06 PM
In all seriousness though, Nady probably isn't a bad fit if this is his last arbitration year; I don't know if that is the case. Swisher is signed through 2011 to a pretty lucrative deal. So, if we didn't have to give up much of a prospect for Nady, he wouldn't be a bad fit for the Reds. If Burrell came down to 2 years 15-20 mil though, that's pretty tempting. Abreu is not coming to the Reds and we shouldn't be willing to give up Bailey for Dye, who is no better than Nady at this point in his career anyway.

That's my 2 cents.

CincyRed44
12-30-2008, 02:32 PM
I like Nady but he is a free agent after this year? Adding salt to the wound isn't he a Boras client? :eek: If so there will be no extension reciprocated from the Nady corner. The Yanks are looking for young mlb ready bullpen arms in return, don't know about you but Burton and Roenicke would be a steep price to pay for a one year rent-a-player.

As for Swisher well he'd be under control for 3 years at a reasonable price, plus he's a switch hitter and 2 years younger than Xavier Nady.

Unfortunately neither will come cheaply as some feel, even though Cashman isn't known for making great trades he's focusing on a decent return for one or possibly both in separate deals to solidify the backend of their rotation and middle relief.

An intriguing question to carry on this comparison transaction thing.. How about SS Brandon Wood from LAA or Reid Brignac from TB.

I(heart)Freel
12-30-2008, 03:07 PM
Yes on Boras-client. Here's Cot's writeups on both.


Xavier Nady of
1 year/$3.35M (2008)



1 year/$3.35M (2008)

re-signed by Pittsburgh 1/18/08 (avoided arbitration)
performance bonuses: $25,000 for 475 PAs, $50,000 for 500 PAs, $55,000 each for 550, 575 PAs, $65,000 for 600 PAs
acquired by Yankees in trade from Pittsburgh 7/25/08


1 year/$2.15M (2007), re-signed 1/07 (avoided arbitration)

1 year/$0.427M (2006), signed 3/06

1 year/$0.488M (2005)

5 years/$2.85M (2000-04)

signed Major League contract with San Diego 9/00

$1.1M bonus ($0.1M up front)



$1.75M in salary, paid 2001-2004



bonuses based on days on 25-man roster, 2002-04



earned $0.275M bonus for more than 60 days on roster in 2004

drafted 2000 (2-49) (UC Berkeley)

agent: Scott Boras
ML service: 4.059


Nick Swisher of-1b
5 years/$26.75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option



5 years/$26.75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option


signed extension with Oakland 5/11/07, replacing 1 year/$0.4M deal for 2007 signed 3/07




$0.5M signing bonus



07:$0.7M, 08:$3.5M, 09:$5.3M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$9M,
12:$10.25M club option ($1M buyout)



2012 option increases to $12M with top 5 in MVP vote any year 2007-11



limited no-trade clause 2011-12 (may block deals to 6 clubs)




acquired by White Sox in trade from Oakland 1/4/08

acquired by Yankees in trade from White Sox 11/18/08


1 year/$0.335M (2006)

re-signed by Oakland 3/06

1 year/$0.3165M (2005)

re-signed by Oakland 2/05

drafted 2002 (1-16) (Ohio State)

$1.78M signing bonus
agent: Joe Bick

ML service: 3.031




I gotta say... the more I think about it, the more I'd like Swisher. He provides the added bonus of having a Votto backup at 1B. Gives you more flexibility when filling out the bench.

RT43035
12-30-2008, 03:12 PM
With the Mark Teixeira signing with the Yankees it is rumored that they have a surplus of outfielders and that they may be shopping one of them. Depending on what we'd have to give up what would you give and who would you want? Nady or Swisher. I like Swisher, I think he's a switch hitter, can play all three outfield positions and first base. He's from Ohio and played at Ohio State. Not that I'd mind Nady but would prefer Swisher. They are both under contract and each made around 3.5 to 3.6 million. Thoughts anyone?

I would prefer Xavier Nady. He is a TOUGH out from the right side of the plate and hits with power. Moreover, the Reds cannot seem to get him out although it wouldn't matter much since he's currently in the American League. He's nothing more than an adequate outfielder which is an issue considering the Red's miserable defensive play over the past several years, but I would love to see his bat in the middle of the lineup.

Bumstead
12-30-2008, 03:29 PM
I would prefer Nady over Swisher mainly because he is only a 1-year commitment and he has power from the right side. Swisher is under contract for 3 more years ($21M approximately) and we have now signed Tavares for 2 years...That would really cut into the timing of our hitting prospects arrival wouldn't it? Stubbs should arrive in 2010 at the latest; then you have Yonder, Frazier, Soto, Valaika, and a few others that will require an opening to occur in a corner OF slot; of course, one could assume that these guys aren't going to pan out. For me, I would like to have a slot or two available just in case. I think now that Jockety has signed Tavares to 2 years, the flexibility at giving another OF more than 1 year has become pretty tough.

I think Brignac is a very interesting player that would be available. I'm not sure Brandon Wood is available and despite all that power, his strikeout rate concerns me. What about Garret Atkins? Two years of arbitration left and he allows the Reds to move EE to LF or 1B?

Captain Hook
12-30-2008, 03:41 PM
Why not both?IMO the yanks would consider taking Baily and one of our other outfielders not named Bruce along with a prospect.It would cost us about 7 Mil. a year and give us 2 quality outfielders.I'm not sure what it would take to really get these guys but wouldn't it be great to get them for what we were going to give up for Dye?

ThatPitchIsDunn
12-30-2008, 03:50 PM
Say it with me, clapping on each word.

Nick
at
Nite

Nick
at
Nite

Get on the horn Walt, this solves so many things. Taveras becomes a backup (in that scenario, Dickerson is the LF). You start Swisher in center and have a guy to give Votto a day of rest when he needs it. Decent pop and OBP, won't kill us in the field. Do the Yankees want some late inning relief? I'd offer up Roenicke + other stuff in a heartbeat for Nick at Nite.

Hybrid
12-30-2008, 04:17 PM
I would prefer Nady just for the fact you are only commited to him for one year.

Blood Red Path
12-30-2008, 04:57 PM
I am Dumb-founded that so many of you Reds "fans" are clamoring for a .244 career hitter who struggled with the mendoza line last year. If we wanted a hitter hovering around .200 in the middle of the line-up, we might as well of just re-signed C-Pat and put him there. There is no real value in a guy who will never possess the ability to hit for avg. and has only reached the 25 HR plateau once.

Nasty_Boy
12-30-2008, 05:17 PM
Swisher, Swisher, Swisher! The dude gets on base!

Blood Red Path
12-30-2008, 05:36 PM
Swisher, Swisher, Swisher! The dude gets on base!

Willy Taveras's career OBP - .331
Nick Swisher's OBP last year - .332

Swisher gets on base (about as much as Willy T). Good argument.

ThatPitchIsDunn
12-30-2008, 05:51 PM
Willy Taveras's career OBP - .331
Nick Swisher's OBP last year - .332

Swisher gets on base (about as much as Willy T). Good argument.

Well if we're going with career OBP, Swisher comes in at .354, the same OBP as Dunn in his worst year. So really with this logic, we've got Dunn-like production coming. Sweet!

Buying low on a solid player is not a bad thing. Am I the only one who thinks coming closer to home (he's from WV and a former Buckeye) might ease him as well?

Blood Red Path
12-30-2008, 06:06 PM
Am I the only one who thinks coming closer to home (he's from WV and a former Buckeye) might ease him as well?

As long as we're poking holes in logic, coming from Oakland to Chicago brought him several thousand miles closer to home, and his production was substantially worse(not that it was ever very impressive), so coming even closer to home then must mean he would drop-off further. right?

cincyredsone
12-30-2008, 08:00 PM
i like both of them. i had nady on my fantasy team last year. if the reds could get either of them, that would be good. i know swisher had an off year last year.

Nasty_Boy
12-30-2008, 10:34 PM
Taveras OBP last year .308
Swisher's career OPB .354

Good argument.

forfreelin04
12-31-2008, 02:23 AM
I don't think it has been mentioned but Swisher is from Parkersburg, WV which is REDS country for the most part. Right across the bridge from Marietta. The only other team advertised in the area (besides the Reds) are the Pirates.

I for one like Swisher but prefer Nady because he's mashed the ball playing against the very same pitchers the Reds face most in the Central. Of course, that works both ways that the pitchers are familar with him.

Swisher is also a switch hitter, something the Reds are void of talent in.

So the question is do you like (option A)

Willy CF (give it up peeps its happening)
BP 2B
Bruce RF
Nady LF
Votto 1B
EDe 3B
Gonzo SS
Hern C

or Option B

Willy CF
BP 2B
Votto 1B
Swish LF
Bruce RF
Ed E 3B
Gonzo SS
Hern C

Nasty_Boy
12-31-2008, 11:41 AM
Give me Line up B any and every day!

Votto needs to be hitting 3rd... He's our best hitter and he will give the guys behind him more chances with runners on base. I like Swisher's game, contract, and versitility better than Nady's too.

Here's the lineup I would like with the players from lineup B.

Willy CF
Swisher LF
Votto 1b
Bruce RF
Edwin 3B
Phillips 2B
Gonzo SS
Hernandez C

If Willy could get on base at a .350 clip, to go along with .365 - .385 with Votto and Swisher, Bruce would have a good amount of RBI chances. Phillips needs to be in the 5-6-7 spots, his offensive game is limited because he's an out machine and he loves the DP.

757690
01-02-2009, 05:45 PM
I like that line up Nasty Boy, unfortunately, it appears that Jocketty is set on acquiring a cleanup hitter, and swisher is best suited for the two slot as you point out. While Nady may not be as complete a hitter as Swisher, he fits the cleanup spot better.

I still see Jocketty surprising everyone with a big rh bat that no one has suggested, or who no one expects. But this is just a gut feeling.

Bip Roberts
01-02-2009, 06:01 PM
I dont see a problem with Swisher batting 2 in our line up

Ohioballplayer
01-17-2009, 12:44 PM
I like the lineup also, however I would mix EE or BP between Bruce and Votto.

redsfandan
01-17-2009, 01:51 PM
Yankees Still Fielding Calls on Swisher, Nady
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 17 at 10:21am CST]
According to Tyler Kepner of the New York Times, Brian Cashman's spending lots of time talking with other clubs about Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady. Cashman's open to moving either player, but he says he won't make a deal for the sake of making one: "we're not going to do anything unless there's a reason to do it."

Cashman also said most reports about trade discussions have been accurate. The Braves, Nationals and Reds are among the teams who have reportedly had interest in Swisher and Nady.

The Yankees like Johnny Damon's production and they're not shopping him or Hideki Matsui.

Kepner suggests the Yankees should "hold on to Swisher and dangle Nady" for a number of reasons. Swisher's two years younger and he's under contract for $21MM over the next three years. Nady, a Scott Boras client, will be a free agent after the 2009 season.
Should we keep our fingers crossed?

That's $7m/yr for Swisher for 3 years. Have to wonder how much more Dunn will make.

jmac
01-17-2009, 02:25 PM
I like the lineup also, however I would mix EE or BP between Bruce and Votto.
Unless a RH bat is aquired, I imagine Dusty will have BP right back in the 4 slot. I would prefer EE though or at least give him a shot.

Emin3mShady07
01-17-2009, 03:53 PM
I dont see a problem with Swisher batting 2 in our line up

No, that is probably his best spot in the order because of his high OBP and BB rates along with an above average ISOP


Should we keep our fingers crossed?

That's $7m/yr for Swisher for 3 years. Have to wonder how much more Dunn will make.

Swisher, in my opinion will be slightly more valuable next to a team than Dunn will, unless of course Dunn is a DH. Swisher is roughly a 5 run above average defender and dunn is roughly 10 runs below average. Swisher will probably wOBA .360ish next year and Dunn will be about .385 so in total swisher will be worth a run or two more over 650 PAs. He also only costs 5 million this year where dunn will cost 8-10 IMO.