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View Full Version : Jocketty sucks...well maybe not.



Spike
12-28-2008, 10:51 PM
I visit from time to time. I used to be part of the Old Red Guard (Lost my rights by attrition I guess.)

I still look to you all at Redzone for cutting edge discussion. I have to say, I have been a little flabergasted (like that word) by all the negativity (bordering on vehemence) that has accompanied the thread dedicated to the signing of Taveras. According to most of you, Walt is inept and the season is lost.

What if...

Dickerson (whom all of you are very high on, so other GM's must be too) and a top pitching prospect or two is traded for say (Delmon Young or Mike Cameron; Jeremy Hermida; Swisher/Nady; Jermaine Dye; Alex Rios (the Bluejays might turn into sellers); or maybe you try and flip Edwin Encarnacion and Dickerson for Adrian Beltre or Aubrey Huff (I know that Encarnacion could be the next Aramis Ramirez, but he also could be the next Joe Crede).


What I am trying to get to is that maybe, just maybe, seeing as how there are three months of trade possibilities, (as well as some shot at a few free agents), Walt Jocketty is trying to get talent together, (and I know some feel Taveras is a negative addition...I am not so sure), and in the end we at least have a basis for a run at it.

If not, Walt needs to trade Arroyo and Harang and shoot for two years from now.

The signing of Taveras gives us some depth where we have none. Walt had to talk the talk about him being the everyday left fielder, but I am sure it is not in his contract. If Dickerson hits the crap out of the ball in Spring Training and Taveras falters, I hope management has the foresight to play the best team available. Nonetheless, I like the possiblilities that Taveras brings to the table.

It is December, let's not write the season off before the first pitch!

Slyder
12-28-2008, 11:09 PM
I visit from time to time. I used to be part of the Old Red Guard (Lost my rights by attrition I guess.)

I still look to you all at Redzone for cutting edge discussion. I have to say, I have been a little flabergasted (like that word) by all the negativity (bordering on vehemence) that has accompanied the thread dedicated to the signing of Taveras. According to most of you, Walt is inept and the season is lost.

What if...

Dickerson (whom all of you are very high on, so other GM's must be too) and a top pitching prospect or two is traded for say (Delmon Young or Mike Cameron; Jeremy Hermida; Swisher/Nady; Jermaine Dye; Alex Rios (the Bluejays might turn into sellers); or maybe you try and flip Edwin Encarnacion and Dickerson for Adrian Beltre or Aubrey Huff (I know that Encarnacion could be the next Aramis Ramirez, but he also could be the next Joe Crede).


What I am trying to get to is that maybe, just maybe, seeing as how there are three months of trade possibilities, (as well as some shot at a few free agents), Walt Jocketty is trying to get talent together, (and I know some feel Taveras is a negative addition...I am not so sure), and in the end we at least have a basis for a run at it.

If not, Walt needs to trade Arroyo and Harang and shoot for two years from now.

The signing of Taveras gives us some depth where we have none. Walt had to talk the talk about him being the everyday left fielder, but I am sure it is not in his contract. If Dickerson hits the crap out of the ball in Spring Training and Taveras falters, I hope management has the foresight to play the best team available. Nonetheless, I like the possiblilities that Taveras brings to the table.

It is December, let's not write the season off before the first pitch!

Tavares adds nothing, he does nothing great besides SB IF he gets on base. I hear Alex Sanchez is looking for a job still. Depth is great but we were fed the same garbage after Patterson was signed and that return was 300+ ABs with Patterson grounding out to start the games. Tavares is a hail mary type move a team makes when their entire outfield goes on the DL at the same time. We also had Norris Hopper sitting at AAA if we really wanted a bunter/speedster for "depth". Not to mention the fact he got a 2 year deal. We are squealing our wheels in the mud like every year and doing nothing to truely improve this team.

If Dickerson is in high demand fine, trade him if it helps the team more. But why waste the time to negotiate with a guy who wasnt going to be promised squat from anyone else when it came to starting like he was here. Its almost like ARod where the Rangers basically bid against themselves and dropped the biggest contract ever on a player.

Griffey012
12-28-2008, 11:33 PM
In the past few years, every world series winner has had someone at the top of the lineup who can create excitement, get momentum, and get a lineup started by wrecking havoc on the bases.
08 Phillies - Rollins and Victorino
07 Red Sox - not much there
06 Cardinals - Eckstein, not the fastest but definitely a scrappy tablesetter
05 White Sox - Scott Podsednik - had a career year, but similar to Taveras
04 Red Sox - Johnny Damon
03 Marlins - Pierre and Castillo at the top
02 Angels - Eckstein again
01 D-Backs - Womack and Craig Counsell
00 Yankees - Chuck Knoblauch

I'll reiterate my point i made on another post, a speedy leadoff man cannot be quantified by sabermetric numbers, you can't determine how much of an effect a speedster has on the opposing pitchers and defense while they are on base. Also, when you have someone with speed and energy at the top of the order, the energy trickles down to the rest of the lineup. When Taveras is on base, Votto, Bruce, and Phillips are going to see better pitches because there will be fastballs coming out of slide steps instead of high leg kicks, and those fastballs are never the pitchers best. Also, the defense up the middle will be cheating over to cover the steal, thus creating a bit bigger holes in the infield.

Willy Taveras is not the save all for this franchise, but pending the money they spent it has the chance to turn out to be a very good investment, or it might fail. Regardless he is much better than having CPatt at the top of the order. And yes, maybe Dickerson would have been fine, but he strikes out at a rediculous rate of about 1 every 3 AB's where Taveras is 1 out of 6, you just can't have that strike out rate leading your team off.

jmac
12-28-2008, 11:50 PM
It is December, let's not write the season off before the first pitch!
As a baseball fan and with the likes of Votto/Burce/Cueto/Volquez, I am still looking forward to ST.:thumbup:

Boss-Hog
12-29-2008, 12:32 AM
Please do not start a thread in which you pose a question to a group that can not respond. If you want to start a thread discussing a topic, that's fine, but don't direct it at a group that can not post in this forum.