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View Full Version : My Opinion....Andruw Jones LF Reds



Redus
01-02-2009, 10:00 PM
Well the Dodgers are about to cut him loose. If the Reds offer him a starting gig in left batting cleanup im thinking he comes cheap on a one year deal to re-establish himself. While I dont advise it..it just reeks Reds all over it. At worse he sucksfor 2 months and you just go with Hopper and Dickerson platoon. At best the gamble pays off and he blasts 30 homers:p: Not likely but its a Reds type move:thumbdown

Donder
01-02-2009, 10:11 PM
I was just talking about this possibility with my brother the other day. If they could get him for next to nothing it would be a risk I wouldn't be against the Reds taking. However I'm sure it would be very unpopular here at Redszone.

steig
01-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Andruw Jones hit .158 last year with 3 home runs. The previous season he hit a whopping .222. Putting him in the middle of the Reds order would be worse than Patterson :yikes: He may make a comeback, but let it be someplace else where they have money to throw away if he continues to play the same. He has show a decline in each of his last three years and I thought his real age was in question. I don't mind taking a chance on a player that is coming off a bad year but I want no part of an aging player with 3 consecutive seasons of declining production.

Redus
01-02-2009, 10:27 PM
Andruw Jones hit .158 last year with 3 home runs. The previous season he hit a whopping .222. Putting him in the middle of the Reds order would be worse than Patterson :yikes: He may make a comeback, but let it be someplace else where they have money to throw away if he continues to play the same. He has show a decline in each of his last three years and I thought his real age was in question. I don't mind taking a chance on a player that is coming off a bad year but I want no part of an aging player with 3 consecutive seasons of declining production.

Im totally in agreement however if hes just cut loose and comes cheap (word is he's getting millions for his release) it just reeks of a Reds gamble.:eek:

TheBigLebowski
01-02-2009, 11:20 PM
Jocketty, sans the Tavares signing (which I am actually quite comfortable with, except the year 2 money) is not the prototypical Reds GM. No way he signs Andruw. None. This guy has actually won on a very consistent basis elsewhere, which none of our 3 former GM's have ever done.

Hybrid
01-02-2009, 11:26 PM
Andruw Jones hit .158 last year with 3 home runs. The previous season he hit a whopping .222. Putting him in the middle of the Reds order would be worse than Patterson :yikes: He may make a comeback, but let it be someplace else where they have money to throw away if he continues to play the same. He has show a decline in each of his last three years and I thought his real age was in question. I don't mind taking a chance on a player that is coming off a bad year but I want no part of an aging player with 3 consecutive seasons of declining production.

I totally agree. I would much rather he try to re-establish himself somewhere else...the Reds already have their share of question marks going into the season.

Bip Roberts
01-02-2009, 11:28 PM
You might have found someone worse than Corey Patterson and Willy Taveras

TheNext44
01-03-2009, 12:14 AM
I saw Jones on a regular basis last year, when he was in the lineup, and I can assure you that he is completely finished as a major league player.

The reason why he only had around 200 AB's is that the Dodgers refused to play him, he was that horrible. They put him on the disabled list, but that was just a face saving move and everyone knew it, he was not injure at all, they just needed an excuse to keep him off the diamond.

His swing and his batting eye were a complete mess. He swung at everything and almost never made good contact, if he made contact at all. Remember how bad Phillips looked last year on breaking balls away? That was Jones on every swing, no matter where or what it was. Seriously, after watching his swing night in and night out, I was amazed he hit as high as .158. That was a very lucky .158!

And to make matters worse, he was just average in CF. He was overweight, and sluggish. He was nothing like he was when he was in Atlanta.

Trust me, I would much rather have Corey Patterson that Andruw Jones. Even if he paid the Reds $10M to play, I would say no. He is done.

Griffey012
01-03-2009, 12:21 AM
I would wipe last year out of consideration, it was just a bad thing for him and the Dodgers. In 2007 he had a horrible BA and a horrible OBP, but he did manage to drive in quite a few runs. Even with his real age in question, he can't be but any older than 35, he is currently 31 right now. He has played quite a few years in the bigs which could have worn him down. If we could somehow get him on a deal with a weight clause in his contract it might be worth looking into if it's fairly cheap, after all the worst case scenario is he still sucks and we cut him. His weight is listed at 240, on a 6-1 frame, which is just huge for someone like him.

But I am really hoping we have better options.

Nasty_Boy
01-03-2009, 12:50 AM
If we don't have to pay much or guarantee anything then it wouldn't hurt to bring him to ST. He's probably washed up, but if doesn't hurt the payroll and he needs somewhere to play they could give him a chance to win a job. I'd say he could be more productive than Taveras if he's in shape.

Slyder
01-03-2009, 12:54 AM
You've already brought in 1 option whos arguably worse than the in house options COULD be. Why bring a guy in that you know for a fact is worst than the in house options? I'd rather have Sosa or Bonds at this point, you might get positive production out of them. Jones is overweight and not hit his weight in 2 years. Both Bonds and Sosa worst case scenarios is Sosa or Bonds could be the best hitter off the bench in the majors.

CesarGeronimo
01-03-2009, 01:01 AM
Jocketty, sans the Tavares signing (which I am actually quite comfortable with, except the year 2 money) is not the prototypical Reds GM. No way he signs Andruw. None. This guy has actually won on a very consistent basis elsewhere, which none of our 3 former GM's have ever done.

My fear with Jocketty, and this is probably just paranoia fueled by having most of my brain cells destroyed through years of losing and the accompanying bouts with grain alcohol, is that he did a great job of constructing the type of team LaRussa wanted in St. Louis and now he'll do a great job of constructing the kind of team Dusty Baker wants in Cincinnati.

thatcoolguy_22
01-03-2009, 04:23 AM
I would like to see us pick up Jones assuming we will be able to sign him to an incentive laden deal with a 1 million base salary with incentives leading it into the 10 million dollar range.

My incentives would include:

1) Weight management
2) PA (500)
3) OPS (.825)
4) GG bonus (1 million)

I think the biggest key with Jones will be the weight management. His prime years (age 28/29) Jones OPS+ 136 and 126 then his last year with the braves he went homerun happy in his contract year and OPS+88. Last year he gained one billion pounds in his gut and was virtually asked to refund his paycheck.

If his weight gets back to normal and we only sign Jones for his age 32 year and stipulate how it is necessary for him to maintain body we could benefit from a resurgence in LF. With the contract with a base of only 1 million we could easily eat the it, if he continues on his same route. Plus playing in the friendly confines of GASP could cause a boost in his SLG... theoretically.

my .02

Low risk possible huge reward

Gamble
01-03-2009, 05:58 AM
It appears Andruw Jones is done as a Dodger
Lori Shepler / Los Angeles Times

Is there room enough in the outfield for both Andruw Jones and Manny Ramirez? The Dodgers restructured Jones' contract to possibly make room for the free-agent slugger's salary.
The Dodgers have agreed to trade or release Jones in exchange for his deferring much of the $22 million remaining on his contract.
By Bill Shaikin
January 3, 2009
Andruw Jones and the Dodgers? One and done.

The Dodgers have agreed to trade or release Jones in exchange for his deferring much of the $22 million remaining on his contract, a baseball source said Friday.
The deal is expected to shave $12 million from the Dodgers' 2009 payroll and cut Jones' salary next season to about $5 million. If the Dodgers cannot trade him, even at that discounted salary, then Jones can ask for his release before spring training, the source said.

The Dodgers could apply the savings toward a new offer to Manny Ramirez, but that negotiation is independent of this deal.

The Dodgers offered Ramirez two years and $45 million in November but have since withdrawn the offer. They have resumed talks with agent Scott Boras, who also represents Jones, as well as explored outfield alternatives in Bobby Abreu and Adam Dunn.


The discussions on Jones' contract predated the resumption of the Ramirez talks, said two sources, each of whom declined to be identified since the Dodgers have not announced the restructured deal for Jones.

The revised deal frees up cash for the Dodgers while enabling Jones to play elsewhere and try to rebuild his value before free agency next year.

The National League West champions have cut their player payroll from $119 million on opening day last season to a projected $65 million next season, pending any signings.

The Dodgers signed Jones last winter to be their big bat, but he hit .158 with three home runs in 75 games. The five-time All-Star reported to camp significantly overweight, endured boos from opening day on, underwent knee surgery in May, ended the season on the bench and then asked to be traded.

However, even at his new low salary, interested teams could wait to see if the Dodgers release him instead.

The Dodgers then would owe all but the minimum $400,000 salary.


http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-dodgers3-2009jan03,0,3865651.story

AccordinglyReds
01-03-2009, 03:35 PM
No thanks. Ugh.

BRM13
01-03-2009, 04:30 PM
My fear with Jocketty, and this is probably just paranoia fueled by having most of my brain cells destroyed through years of losing and the accompanying bouts with grain alcohol, is that he did a great job of constructing the type of team LaRussa wanted in St. Louis and now he'll do a great job of constructing the kind of team Dusty Baker wants in Cincinnati.

I share your paranoia. This winter should tell us a lot about how Jocketty really approaches team building. LaRussa is fairly progressive/unconventional in his use of stats to manage (this is the source of the pitcher hitting 8th for example) while Jocketty reportedly was forced out of StL for his refusal to be more progressive vis a vis statistical analysis. Given Dusty's proud old school approach, Jocketty and his manager might be on the same page about a lot of things. I hope not, of course, but your post brought that fear right back to the surface. :(

HalMorrisRules
01-03-2009, 04:43 PM
Guys, he is still under contract. If the Dodgers released him it doesnt void that contract or make him a free agent, so the Reds wouldnt have to sign him to any kind of contract, even one loaded with incentives. They would only be responsible for $400,000. To me, if they would decide to take a flyer on him, $400,000 is a small gamble to see if he would do well in GABP. If he doesnt, they arent out any real large amount of money. Not too much downside to this at all.

The ESPN article indicated that the Dodgers had already heard from the Reds about Jones so it would seem that Walt already has some interest. With his contract having been restructured, if the Reds did a flat out trade for him, he is now scheduled to make $5M this year. 5M is better than 15M but even that amount of money would be hard to swallow. To sum up, dont trade for him but if he is released, I wouldnt be too put out by it if the Reds picked him up.

TheNext44
01-03-2009, 04:52 PM
I might be willing to take on his $5M salary for this year, if the Dodgers included Hu in the deal and the Reds gave up nothing more than a C prospect, one that is not in their top 20. But even with that, only maybe...

Slyder
01-03-2009, 05:14 PM
I might be willing to take on his $5M salary for this year, if the Dodgers included Hu in the deal and the Reds gave up nothing more than a C prospect, one that is not in their top 20. But even with that, only maybe...

Waste of assets. Let some other team roll the dice that Jones can "find it" again. Learn from the Tavares blunder be patient and let someone else roll the dice on "reputation". Also remember who our manager is, Duhhhsty might say "this guy deserves respect" and bat him 3rd irregardless of whether he's hitting .350 or .150.

Old NDN
01-03-2009, 05:46 PM
Let's forget about his production (or non-production) for a minute. Is his attitude, work ethic, and nonchalant approach what the Reds need leading the way for all these young guys? Didn't the Reds just rid themselves of a couple of players labeled as such? A possibly terrible influence on this team, IMO. No thanks.

steig
01-03-2009, 05:50 PM
If we get Jones we are taking a chance on two of the starting outfield to have good comeback years and hoping that Bruce can improve on last year. That is to must risk for the starting lineup in my opinion. We need a more dependable solution to left field to keep pressure off of Bruce and Votto and to minimize the gambles that this team is taking in 2009.

The article also stated that the Reds had interest at some point during the off season, not necessarily after his deal was restructured or since they signed Taveras.

Maldez
01-03-2009, 07:01 PM
It just amazes me how a guy's talent could seemingly just go away that quickly. Andruw Jones had several years with just amazing productivity when he came up with Atlanta. He was being likened to a young Willie Mays. A Hall of Famer in the making, for sure. Now he looks like he never played before.

Does a big contract like he got with the Dodgers just make a guy go completely lazy? Does he have burlap sacks of coke in his mansion?

redsfanmia
01-03-2009, 07:51 PM
If we can get Jones at league minimum or a little more I am all for it. If he stinks we cut him, if he is good we can flip him at the deadline for prospects. To me its a no lose situation as long as the money is low.

Slyder
01-03-2009, 09:26 PM
He's not got the heart to play baseball like he did in his 20s. He got a big payday and got lazy, fat, and slow. He's cashing paychecks and nothing more. I understand the reason people want to go after low risk/high reward type guys. But the odds of him rebounding to be worth the risk IMO are slim to none and slim just left town. He couldnt hit the broad side of the smoke towers standing right next to them last year. The year before that he was absolutely awful, the only good thing was in Atl he had a couple decent tablesetters that got on for him and had Chipper in the same lineup and it inflated his RBI totals.

I forget who said it but they were right he's been in the majors since he was like 19 years old, could just be his body is affecting him more than the average "31 year old" because he's been doing it for so much longer in the majors than the average player.

benchrosemorgan
01-03-2009, 10:19 PM
no no no!!!

Stephenk29
01-03-2009, 11:21 PM
He is well past his prime. I don't even see him being serviceable ever again. He would be the most expensive bench player in Reds history.

NO THANKS

Hybrid
01-04-2009, 12:15 AM
Let's forget about his production (or non-production) for a minute. Is his attitude, work ethic, and nonchalant approach what the Reds need leading the way for all these young guys? Didn't the Reds just rid themselves of a couple of players labeled as such? A possibly terrible influence on this team, IMO. No thanks.

Exactly. :thumbup:

BEETTLEBUG
01-04-2009, 02:02 AM
cansel this

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
01-04-2009, 12:51 PM
It just amazes me how a guy's talent could seemingly just go away that quickly. Andruw Jones had several years with just amazing productivity when he came up with Atlanta. He was being likened to a young Willie Mays. A Hall of Famer in the making, for sure. Now he looks like he never played before.

Does a big contract like he got with the Dodgers just make a guy go completely lazy? Does he have burlap sacks of coke in his mansion?

Or did he have Jose Canseco in his mansion?

mlh1981
01-22-2009, 12:13 AM
Never liked his casual, cavalier attitude towards the game. We have had wayyy too many of these type players in recent years. Andruw Jones got by on natural talent for years, but now that he's gotten a bit older and has some tread on those tires, he can't, and never will (IMO) be able to produce like he used to. I don't think one suddenly develops a strong work ethic and hunger at his age. You either have it, or you dont.

DannyB
01-22-2009, 08:02 AM
If we can get Jones at league minimum or a little more I am all for it. If he stinks we cut him, if he is good we can flip him at the deadline for prospects. To me its a no lose situation as long as the money is low.

Jones would cost the Reds $400k. The Dogers will still be paying him.

bounty37h
01-22-2009, 01:27 PM
Dindt he just up and quit the winter leagues last week, batting .188 or something like that, it seems I read that the other day somewhere, but cant recall where to find link....

Ohioballplayer
01-22-2009, 01:37 PM
Bounty,

I cant find anything on it, however if he did maybe he is going to get himself straightened out. This would be a low-risk gamble and I personally think the Reds should do it before the Braves do it. Give him the 400K loaded with incentives. We could use him in LF he was a gold glover up until last year in CF and he didn't play enough last year to merit the award.

bounty37h
01-22-2009, 06:08 PM
Maybe he did leave to take some time to straighten himself out, but leaving a team hitting that low sounds to me like he is giving up or realizes he simply doesnt have it anymore-not a knock on him by any means, but maybe he is just done. Leaving a team when your performing well wont do him favors when trying to find a job and convince GM's he is still worth a risk. If he is willing to sign that low risk contract, yes, I would say risk it, but I dont have high hopes for either side on this one.

Ohioballplayer
01-23-2009, 01:29 PM
Seems like the Marlins, Braves and Mets are showing interest, it's a very low-risk gamble but why not try it, the Reds love re-treads!!

Bip Roberts
01-23-2009, 01:40 PM
Dindt he just up and quit the winter leagues last week, batting .188 or something like that, it seems I read that the other day somewhere, but cant recall where to find link....

Yea he was doing terrible with like 50% of his ABs ending in strike outs

jnwohio
01-25-2009, 01:56 AM
Jones would cost the Reds $400k. The Dogers will still be paying him.

There is a twist here. Yes, his salary would be $400K or whatever exactly the MLB minimum is for 2009 and that would be deducted from the Dodger payout. BUT Boras hopes to get a signing bonus bidding war going because that would represent "new" additional money for Jones since a signing bonus is independent from the payout on his previous contract. The figure I've seen thrown around is something in the $2M~2.5M range which would essentially cover his "loss" from the Dodger money being paid out over 7 years interest free instead of him getting it all this year as per the original contract.

I find it interesting that by the time his release was official it looked almost like a done deal that Jones would be back in Atlanta yet 10 days later now as far as I can see nothing has been settled. I'd guess the Bravos or no one else are beating the door down to pay a sizable signing bonus to a guy who may be over the hill. I wonder if there is a way for him to sign a new incentive laden deal and not have the incentives (if he makes them) deducted from the Dodger payout? If so that may be the only way he is going to realize a couple of million in additional money in the current economic climate.

Rusty the Red
01-25-2009, 06:56 PM
The market has left him behind and it may happen to several players this off-season.

jnwohio
01-26-2009, 12:58 AM
The market has left him behind and it may happen to several players this off-season.

I think it may be more than the market in Jones case. He may have just lost the ability to put the bat on the ball at the MLB level. I know Jones was in the majors at a very early age and played a lot of years; but how does a guy so relatively young just lose his hand/ eye coordination almost over night? I can understand losing his legs after all that time as a CF but at the plate you'd think that would come across as a loss of power, not the loss of the basic ability to put the bat on the ball.


It will be interesting to see if he choses to retire if the choice is retirement versus essentially playing for free (beyond the Dodger pay out of the old contract).

Redus
04-01-2009, 06:49 PM
Uh oh! my prediction may still ring true....Rotoworld is reporting a Reds Scout and a Phillies scout have been in Texas camp eyeballing Jones. The Phils may sign Sheffield so it would be us alone looking at Andruw....hes hitting .288 thus far...Thuoghts?

Slyder
04-01-2009, 07:26 PM
Uh oh! my prediction may still ring true....Rotoworld is reporting a Reds Scout and a Phillies scout have been in Texas camp eyeballing Jones. The Phils may sign Sheffield so it would be us alone looking at Andruw....hes hitting .288 thus far...Thuoghts?

Still no way do I even bother.

Redus
04-01-2009, 08:00 PM
Still no way do I even bother.

I agree but its funny were there scouting him.....he may end up here. Oh and today he was 2-2 with a ninth inning gw homer today and is at .293 :p:

Slyder
04-01-2009, 08:21 PM
He'd get as many abs here as he would in Texas 0. Because I doubt he'd want to move out of CF and we all know CF bats leadoff ;).

Ghosts of 1990
04-01-2009, 10:19 PM
Not worth it at this point. Guy is done

CRedsLarkin11
04-03-2009, 01:12 AM
in their fantasy updates, cbs sports keeps acting like he is going to make the team...with all of the interest though, it's almost imminent that we're going to end up with some older guy that doesn't play good defense or hit the ball any more with a big name

JBChance
04-03-2009, 11:40 PM
in their fantasy updates, cbs sports keeps acting like he is going to make the team...with all of the interest though, it's almost imminent that we're going to end up with some older guy that doesn't play good defense or hit the ball any more with a big name

So far Jocketty has resisted the urge for the aging slugger - Sheffield, Jones, Jenkins.

Lets keep crossing our fingers on this one. We don't need one of those guys.

Hondo
04-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Jones would have been worth a flyer on... for 400,000...

It is when this team gives Corey Patterson 3 Million... Those are the NO NO's...

Redus
04-08-2009, 03:58 PM
At this point Id have rather seen what Jones has left than watch Macdonald play outfield for this team ever again