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Phhhl
01-04-2009, 02:24 AM
Bring Alonso to spring training and give him a legitimate shot to make the major league roster this year. I am relatively certain he THINKS he is ready. How long is the club going to have a rotation as good as this one? The window on that part of the team starts closing rapidly if we deal Arroyo for a hitter, or if Harang doesn't survive Dusty, or if any of a number of things start to erode that current "commodity". The stated possibility of our GM that Hairston could open the season as the left fielder is a humorless joke. Frankly, I don't care about Yonder Alonso's psyche or whether he can handle the gargantuan jump from college baseball to the majors. He gave up those considerations when he worked his deal with the Reds. He big leagued this team during negotiations after he was drafted, and got his big league contract. So, wouldn't it be fair to ask him to put up the type of performance to justify that money?

Miguel Cabrera made this type of jump. Junior did it at a much earlier age. Hanley Ramirez. Barry Bonds. GREAT players, yes. But, Alonso negotiated as if he deserved to eat at the same table as these guys. In fact, I think he DID eat at the same table as Alex Rodriguez when pondering the Reds generous offer.

And so, we need him to "put up" in extraordinary fashion. Having a breakthrough season by a hitter of his reported calibre would be better than anything that is available on the free agent market, or trade. Keep our pitching and add what we can between here and opening day, but give Votto a left fielder's glove and try to get the best lineup we can on the field right now. The window is already closing before it even opened for this team to compete.

A small market team in this financial climate seems to need the absurd and impossible to happen to win. As absurd as it seems, I would give Yonder a chance to play on this team right now.

dougdirt
01-04-2009, 02:28 AM
So lets pretend Yonder does hit well enough to make the team.... what do you do with Votto? You aren't going to put either on the bench are you?

cincyinco
01-04-2009, 02:36 AM
I thought he said votto to left?

dougdirt
01-04-2009, 02:38 AM
Maybe I missed it the first time I read through? It is late... can I use that excuse?

corkedbat
01-04-2009, 02:39 AM
So lets pretend Yonder does hit well enough to make the team.... what do you do with Votto? You aren't going to put either on the bench are you?


If Alonso were to kick down the door, I'd say we'd see a Votto experiment in LF. Seeng as how he hasn't seen any pitching above High A (and not much of that), I can't see Alonso starting the season anywhere but Carolina, but that doesn't mean he couldn't be in Cincy by July with a hot enough start. Don't be shocked if Alonso gets some early Carolina starts in LF too.



I think they will move him quickly if warranted since he already has the major league deal.

Phhhl
01-04-2009, 02:44 AM
Okay, I guess what I am really saying is open camp with every intention of putting Alonso at first and Votto in left no matter what Alonso does... short of having an emotional breakdown that requires medical attention. As far as I am concerned, the kid intends to use the Reds as a springboard to a contract that this team will never be able to afford. He wants to be paid like a man, so treat him like one.

corkedbat
01-04-2009, 02:46 AM
nm

camisadelgolf
01-04-2009, 03:29 AM
This probably means very little, but if Alonso became the regular first baseman, instead of getting paid the $1 million he's due in 2012, he would probably elect for arbitration, which would most likely pay him significantly more. From a financial point of view, it would make a lot of sense for the Reds to wait until a couple months after the season started to make him the regular first baseman to make sure he avoids being a 'super two' player.

GAC
01-04-2009, 06:03 AM
I have a strange feeling that Alonso, if he makes it, won't be long for Cincy. This kid really has the dollar signs in his eyes.

princeton
01-04-2009, 08:58 AM
I have a strange feeling that Alonso, if he makes it, won't be long for Cincy. This kid really has the dollar signs in his eyes.

ah, don't be so grim.

if we're lucky, he'll be sub-mediocre and won't want to leave. :thumbup:

Big Klu
01-04-2009, 02:09 PM
Alonso is already on the 40-man roster, so he will be at Spring Training this year.

I've always thought that the Reds drafted Alonso to be a Matt LaPorta-type "insurance policy" that they could trade in for some other need, like the Brewers did to pick up C.C. I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso never plays a game in a Reds uniform.

Raisor
01-04-2009, 02:16 PM
. This kid really has the dollar signs in his eyes.


So what? Even if true, so what?

RedsManRick
01-04-2009, 02:39 PM
Alonso is already on the 40-man roster, so he will be at Spring Training this year.

I've always thought that the Reds drafted Alonso to be a Matt LaPorta-type "insurance policy" that they could trade in for some other need, like the Brewers did to pick up C.C. I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso never plays a game in a Reds uniform.

I agree. It was a move where they saw a guy who was a virtual sure thing to be a major league caliber hitter. He might not have been the highest ceiling guy available, but he's a reliable asset that will provide value in a trade, if not in a Reds uniform.

dougdirt
01-04-2009, 02:44 PM
So what? Even if true, so what?

Right. We still get him for 6 years like everyone else, so its really not relevant.

OnBaseMachine
01-04-2009, 03:14 PM
I don't think Alonso will be traded. I think the Reds viewed him as the best available talent, a guy with a chance to be an impact bat fairly soon. I think he'll be our starting first baseman in 2010 with Joey Votto moving to left field.

corkedbat
01-04-2009, 03:18 PM
I've got no problem with eventually flipping Votto ot Alphonso for a slock youg SS or CF or even a Catcher or starter, Nice problem to have and it will work itself out (hopefully) for the best.

WebScorpion
01-04-2009, 04:02 PM
To answer the original propostition, I'd say I don't think it is wise to give Alonso the starting First baseman job right out of Spring Training. That said, I do agree that he should be pushed quickly into Major League production since he is on a Major League contract. As princeton always says, "Challenge thy hitters." I wouldn't have a problem starting him in AA this season and moving him to AAA at mid-season, with an eye toward the starting job in 2010. I think that's as aggressive as I would consider.

Vada Pinson Fan
01-04-2009, 04:17 PM
Ideally I'd like to keep Votto AND Alonso together for as long as possible. Just like the Dodgers did for so long back in the 70's with Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey but with Votto going to LF.

There has been so much talk by different Reds managements of building a strong and talented farm system but we never saw it happen to the extent it could have. Now we have that chance. Hang onto proven talent as long as you can. Don't gamble away that talent the way the Reds did with the likes of Jeff Montgomery and Trevor Hoffman by trading them or not protecting them. The Reds have lesser spare parts to deal but I digress. I keep Yonder on the fast track and move him quickly (2 months at a time which gives him time to make it to Cincy tis season) if he maintains a high level of play both offensively and defensively. Only Yonder will hold Yonder back. If that plan doesn't work I keep him in the minors with thought of Alonso not becoming a Super 2.

Based on what we know right now, I don't trade either Votto or Alonso for a slick fielding SS or C, etc. This team is on the right path. Let it continue to develop and plug holes as necessary from non-starters and less than elite minor leaguers if at all possible.

IslandRed
01-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Okay, I guess what I am really saying is open camp with every intention of putting Alonso at first and Votto in left no matter what Alonso does... short of having an emotional breakdown that requires medical attention. As far as I am concerned, the kid intends to use the Reds as a springboard to a contract that this team will never be able to afford. He wants to be paid like a man, so treat him like one.

Personally, I'm more concerned about doing the best thing for the Reds than I am sticking it to Alonso. If we suppose the following things are true:

* The Reds have control of Alonso for six seasons of MLB service time until he reaches free agency
* Alonso will leave the Reds when he hits free agency, getting a contract the Reds can't afford
* To get that kind of contract, he'll have to hit a ton while he's here

Then, as far as I'm concerned, there's no upside in playing him before he's ready (which has no actual relationship to last year's negotiations). All you're doing is either lessening the chance he'll hit a ton, or lessening the amount of time he hits a ton before he skips town.

bucksfan2
01-04-2009, 08:21 PM
Okay, I guess what I am really saying is open camp with every intention of putting Alonso at first and Votto in left no matter what Alonso does... short of having an emotional breakdown that requires medical attention. As far as I am concerned, the kid intends to use the Reds as a springboard to a contract that this team will never be able to afford. He wants to be paid like a man, so treat him like one.

If the eventual plan is to play Votto in LF then I don't understand why they don't move him there right away. If he is able to play an average LF then it would give the Reds more flexibility at the 1b position. Also why not put Votto out in LF in a less pressure year, a year in which if every thing goes right they may find themselves in playoff contention, but in reality a year in which progress is expected.

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves with Alonso talk. I think it would be a mistake to bring him right up to the bigs without putting some time in AA and also refining his game at a less competitive level. But If Alonso is projected at being on the Reds by 2010 they need to find a stop gap at 1b. A guy like Giambi may fit that mold and could become a target. I would be much more comfortable putting a 37 year old stop gap at 1b than a 37 year old outfielder.

corkedbat
01-04-2009, 09:07 PM
]If the eventual plan is to play Votto in LF then I don't understand why they don't move him there right away[/B]. If he is able to play an average LF then it would give the Reds more flexibility at the 1b position. Also why not put Votto out in LF in a less pressure year, a year in which if every thing goes right they may find themselves in playoff contention, but in reality a year in which progress is expected.

I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves with Alonso talk. I think it would be a mistake to bring him right up to the bigs without putting some time in AA and also refining his game at a less competitive level. But If Alonso is projected at being on the Reds by 2010 they need to find a stop gap at 1b. A guy like Giambi may fit that mold and could become a target. I would be much more comfortable putting a 37 year old stop gap at 1b than a 37 year old outfielder.

I've wondered this myself bucksfan2. There was some talk after the draft that Alfonso might ne able to move off 1B and handle either 3b or LF. I believe it came both from Reds management and at one point Alfonso himself when he was here for his signing tour of the stadium.

From every report I've heard before and after the draft, I find this kind of hard to believe, but it makes me wonder if they might not plan to play Alfonso out Yonder in LF early in the season at Sarasora or Carolina, just to rule it out.

RedEye
01-04-2009, 09:19 PM
I've actually suggested a few times that the Reds might consider signing Giambi. You would think that his plate discipline and general approach to hitting would do wonders for the young hitters in the lineup who are looking for models, not to mention he would likely get on base almost 40% of the time he comes up. I think the emphasis on acquiring a RH outfielder is misguided when this team has so few consistent hitters, and so few experienced ones at that. Jason Giambi might be the best candidate out there--and I think he could be had for a reasonable price given his history of problems. He is still a very productive player.

corkedbat
01-04-2009, 09:22 PM
I've actually suggested a few times that the Reds might consider signing Giambi. You would think that his plate discipline and general approach to hitting would do wonders for the young hitters in the lineup who are looking for models, not to mention he would likely get on base almost 40% of the time he comes up. I think the emphasis on acquiring a RH outfielder is misguided when this team has so few consistent hitters, and so few experienced ones at that. Jason Giambi might be the best candidate out there--and I think he could be had for a reasonable price given his history of problems. He is still a very productive player.

I won't mind that. Beats Jerry Hairston in LF next to WillyT