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IndianaRed
01-19-2009, 07:23 PM
Per mlbtraderumors.com:


Marc Topkin of the St. Petersburg Times reports that outfielder Jonny Gomes has agreed to terms on a minor league contract with the Reds.

The deal will pay him $600K in '09 and provides $200K in performance-based incentives. The Rays decided not to tender him a conract this offseason afer he hit just .182 with eight homers and 21 RBI in 77 games in '08. He'll have a shot at some outfield at-bats with the Reds if he impresses this spring.

Emin3mShady07
01-19-2009, 07:30 PM
I think this is a good signing, not a big move, but Gomes could be a good hitter off the bench and a spot starter out in LF. He has OPSed over .900 before so maybe the reds could catch some lightning in a bottle and maybe Gomes does well, but even if he doesn't he deal does not necessitate playing time and is less than $1 Million

redsfandan
01-19-2009, 07:31 PM
Ok. I like this especially since it's a minor league contract with low $.

FlightRick
01-19-2009, 07:41 PM
Great pick-up in terms of adding depth... he hits lefties to the tune of .270/.370/.510 over the course of his career, and up until last year's catastrophic breakdown, he'd been rocking a career OPS+ of about 115.

No great shakes as a defender, unfortunately, and he does strike out rather a bit... but as a bat off the bench, a possible platoon player, or as a guy who can spell Bruce once/twice a week if Bruce keeps having problems versus LHP as he develops, you won't find many better pick-ups that only cost six figures. Six figures even *if* he makes his incentives. Nice.

Where the problem(s) creep in is when you consider that this now pretty much fills out our OF (no big, middle of the order bat is coming, folks; Bruce, Taveras, Dickerson, and Gomes, with Hairston and Kepp as super utility options is it), which means we didn't sign him for "depth," we signed him to get at least 450 ABs. If he rebounds from last year, that's actually not a bad thing at all.... but it's at that point that I also realize we only got him for one year on the cheap, so if he owns in 2009, it's not like we get to keep him around as "depth" for 2010 and beyond when we might be an overall stronger and more-contender-y team.

Oh well...


Rick

redsfandan
01-19-2009, 07:49 PM
... Where the problem(s) creep in is when you consider that this now pretty much fills out our OF (no big, middle of the order bat is coming, folks; Bruce, Taveras, Dickerson, and Gomes, with Hairston and Kepp as super utility options is it), which means we didn't sign him for "depth," we signed him to get at least 450 ABs. ...

It's a minor league contract. Just like Nix. So this doesn't mean anything except he's an option to help. It doesn't mean they won't, or can't, still acquire a better outfielder if the price is right.

FlightRick
01-19-2009, 08:01 PM
I think this is different from Nix... I think the "minor league" element is more a matter of administrative neccessity than an actual indicator of how we intend to use Gomes.

If I'm not mistaken, our 40-man is currently full (another thing that speaks against another major free agent move, and kind of pushes us towards making a trade if we do anything)... so, for the time being, if we talk to Gomes and his agent and say "Listen, we don't want to rush anything, but we're gonna clear a spot for you once we evaluate things more closely, and you WILL have a spot on the Big Club in 2009," then I think Gomes and Agent listen, and I think we get 2 more months in which to decide how we want to manage our roster.

I really think that's the under-the-table subtext of this deal, otherwise, Gomes would have kept shopping himself around. And he would have found a taker. Make no mistake: I love the pick-up and love it more at this price... but that doesn't mean I don't still see a deviation between Gomes' best usage and how we'll end up using him. Barring a major trade or something truly shocking (and of course, also barring an injury to Gomes), I'd go so far as to wager a body part (my appendix) that Gomes sets a new career high for ABs in '09 with the Reds, which may not necessarily speak to us contending for anything other than a .500 record.

I think his previous best was about 375 or so.


Rick

captainmorgan07
01-19-2009, 08:01 PM
Very good pickup for Walt. He kills lefties and it's not an overly big contract. Good guy to have off the bench with major pop in his bat.

TheBigLebowski
01-19-2009, 08:07 PM
I like it. I like it a lot, actually.

Bip Roberts
01-19-2009, 08:17 PM
Cant wait to have him in left field everyday.

Let the run scoring begin

Slyder
01-19-2009, 08:21 PM
So we clear Dunn and Junior off the books and we use that money to bring in 2 ofs with power potential but cant hit the ball unless its off a tee, Trade Freel for Hernandez, and waste perfectly good money on Willy Tavares...

If he's on the major league roster at any point were in deeper trouble than even the most pessimistic fans think. Especially if Flight Rick is right with his instinct.

jmac
01-19-2009, 08:35 PM
Good signing by Walt !

Bip Roberts
01-19-2009, 08:38 PM
He could be decent as a LF platoon but thats asking a lot of the Reds to notice it.

NorrisHopper30
01-19-2009, 08:43 PM
I'm surprised Gomes couldn't get more than that.

Nice pick-up, I can't complain.

Newman4
01-19-2009, 08:58 PM
This is a nice signing with some thought apparently behind it. Now....how about Sheets?

Chris Sabowned
01-19-2009, 09:14 PM
This is a good signing only if Gomes is our 25th man, pinch hitter, occasional platooner. If he sees extended playing time, we likely won't be a very good team.

reds1869
01-19-2009, 09:14 PM
Great signing. Now lets keep adding pop to the roster, please!

757690
01-19-2009, 09:56 PM
Not to brag, but I did predict that Jocketty would bring in a RH bat for LF that no one on Redszone had talked about. I was hoping for a better bat, but if Gomes is healthy, and is platooned with Dickerson, LF could be very productive this year.

davereds24
01-19-2009, 09:58 PM
yawn

TheNext44
01-19-2009, 10:28 PM
Not to brag, but I did predict that Jocketty would bring in a RH bat for LF that no one on Redszone had talked about. I was hoping for a better bat, but if Gomes is healthy, and is platooned with Dickerson, LF could be very productive this year.

I like it how people start off an attempt to brag with "Not to brag..." :lol:

fourrunhomer
01-19-2009, 10:35 PM
Hopefully Gomes will be the starting left fielder at Louisville. That would mean somebody else has a good spring training or another move is made. Not a bad signing at all. It gives low cost options. And who knows, maybe Gomes can have a breakout year and live up to that ever present potential we always hear about.

TheNext44
01-19-2009, 10:49 PM
If Gomes is healthy, and that is a big if, this could be a very smart move. If he is not, we'll know in Spring Training, and then not much wasted.

Here is how I see this working out, if he is healthy.

Gomes platoons with Dickerson, and that leaves Hairston, Kepp and Nix (sorry Norris, but a LHB is needed) as bats off the bench, plus whoever is not playing between Dickerson and Gomes.

Adjusting the RC projections based on career numbers and splits, this bumps up the Reds offensive production from 706 to 724 runs.


Hernandez 48
Hanigan 33.4
Votto 103.4
Phillips 77
EE 79.5
Gonzo 41.1
Kepp 32.9
Gomes 47
Dickerson 52.2
Taveras 72
Bruce 85.3
Hairston 30.5
Nix 14.3
Pitchers 8
Total 724.6

While adding someone like Dunn, Swisher, or Abreu would be better, this is great for the money spent. Jocketty, if Gomes is healthy, adds 18 runs or around 1 1/2 wins for only $600K.
This gives the Reds flexibility to pick up a bigger bat mid season if they are in contention, or just plan for 2010 if they are not.

DannyB
01-19-2009, 10:52 PM
EGADS
He sux!

Emin3mShady07
01-19-2009, 11:15 PM
If Gomes is healthy, and that is a big if, this could be a very smart move. If he is not, we'll know in Spring Training, and then not much wasted.

Here is how I see this working out, if he is healthy.

Gomes platoons with Dickerson, and that leaves Hairston, Kepp and Nix (sorry Norris, but a LHB is needed) as bats off the bench, plus whoever is not playing between Dickerson and Gomes.

Adjusting the RC projections based on career numbers and splits, this bumps up the Reds offensive production from 706 to 724 runs.


Hernandez 48
Hanigan 33.4
Votto 103.4
Phillips 77
EE 79.5
Gonzo 41.1
Kepp 32.9
Gomes 47
Dickerson 52.2
Taveras 72
Bruce 85.3
Hairston 30.5
Nix 14.3
Pitchers 8
Total 724.6

While adding someone like Dunn, Swisher, or Abreu would be better, this is great for the money spent. Jocketty, if Gomes is healthy, adds 18 runs or around 1 1/2 wins for only $600K.
This gives the Reds flexibility to pick up a bigger bat mid season if they are in contention, or just plan for 2010 if they are not.

He might add 1.8 wins to the offensive side of the game, but what about his defense? I would have to say that he is below average defensively, so he might not be that big of an upgrade even IF he is healthy. He has played only 146 games in the OF (between RF and LF) so there is not much to work with for data, but his OF UZR is -19.7 making him a much worse fielder than Adam Dunn. Gomes is projected to wOBA .354 by CHONE next year and I would say he will get about 350 PA. A league average wOBA is roughly .335 so using Tango's wOBA1 - wOBA2/1.15 x PA Gomes will create 5.8 runs over the league average hitter. Assuming he gets the 350 PAs, he will be 11.7 runs above a replacement player. And if he plays LF, he will be hit with a -3.8 positional value, making his offensive value (if the projection is correct) 13.7 runs above a replacement player. With his defense the way it is, I would say he would cost the reds about 7 or 8 runs - lets be optimistic and say 7 - in the field making him 6.7 runs better than a replacement player. Hopper projects to wOBA .317 making Gomes worth 11.3 more runs on offense than Hopper. I would bet that Hopper is an above average fielder (because of his speed) so I would say that Gomes really is not a significant upgrade over Hopper as awful and as shocking as that actually is:yikes::scared::ughmamoru

Emin3mShady07
01-19-2009, 11:54 PM
^^Actually, I messed up a little bit. Gomes is projected to wOBA overall .354, but if he gets the majority of his PAs against left handed pitchers, his wOBA would certainly rise considering his career numbers against lefties. Hopper also has good numbers against lefties, but not as good as Gomes, so I'd say that adds a run or two to Gomes' production making him a little bit better than hopper, but like I said before, not that significant of an upgrade...darn.

fewfirstchoice
01-20-2009, 12:11 AM
Its a great signing if hes the 25th man on the bench. If he was brought in to do anything but that its a bad signing. Him and Dickerson platooning in LF would be terrible for the Reds. Cincy needs to a LF plain and simple. They need to trade for Swisher, Nady,or Dye or sign Abreu. If they get one of these run producers the Reds could be a contendor this coming season.

TheNext44
01-20-2009, 12:25 AM
^^Actually, I messed up a little bit. Gomes is projected to wOBA overall .354, but if he gets the majority of his PAs against left handed pitchers, his wOBA would certainly rise considering his career numbers against lefties. Hopper also has good numbers against lefties, but not as good as Gomes, so I'd say that adds a run or two to Gomes' production making him a little bit better than hopper, but like I said before, not that significant of an upgrade...darn.

I was about to mention that, thanks for catching it. His splits are very strong, and should be worth more than a run or two:

.235 .329 .455 combined
.266 .369 .510 vs. LH

that works out to 10 more runs (47-37) over 250 AB's using basic RC.

You are right about Gomes defense, thanks for pointing that out. Gomes is listed as a DH at mlb.com, that is how bad he is in the field. He is about as bad as Dunn was when he started, and much worse than Dunn was last year (Dunn was actually not bad last year).

But with a platoon, that means that Gomes will not see much time in the field. If Dusty was pulling Dunn in the 7th, he most likely will be doing the same for Gomes. And Gomes will be pinch hit for a bunch late in games when they bring in a righty. That decreases his defensive negative runs a bit, maybe by a run or two.

I also replaced Janish with Nix, and that is somewhat independent of Gomes making the club, but that adds around 6 runs too.

Anyway, you are right, his defense will make Reds fans long for Dunn out there in left, but if Dusty uses him right, that can be minimized.

redsfandan
01-20-2009, 12:45 AM
Its a great signing if hes the 25th man on the bench. If he was brought in to do anything but that its a bad signing. Him and Dickerson platooning in LF would be terrible for the Reds. Cincy needs to a LF plain and simple. They need to trade for Swisher, Nady,or Dye or sign Abreu. If they get one of these run producers the Reds could be a contendor this coming season.

Yeah we need a better bat for 500 abs in left but I don't think that would be enough to win 15 more games. A decent bat and we can hope for a winning season... finally. A winning season in '09 and THEN playoffs in 2010. That's what I want. Just some improvement every season. And I think that's possible. But we need to acquire a better bat to start in left in '09 first.

forfreelin04
01-20-2009, 12:55 AM
Low risk high reward signing, nothing more than that. He sure could do better than a Andy Phillps, Chad Moeller, Javy Valentin or whoever else you want to call the 25th man. He wants to play in Cincy. I'll buy into that lip service.

I still look for Walt to add someone of the same caliber or a better before the offseason is through in the OF. Walt J has a love affair with good benches (he realizes it provides depth for injuries and a trump card in close games.) If anything, (LF big name signing or not) the Reds bench will be better than anything under Bowden, Wayne, or DanO.

I still look for Walt to make a big splash (trade or signing) sometime during the season or next off season. He has about as long of leash as any GM in the bigs. Give him time before you annoit him Cheif Sit on Hands.

akron3344
01-20-2009, 02:00 AM
cantu was the right hand bat

redhawk61
01-20-2009, 02:07 AM
From C. Trent:

Jonny Gomes is not only excited to play for the Cincinnati Reds, but heís excited about being a Cincinnati Red.

"I'm a big fan of the history of the game and to wear the same uniform as the Hit King, Charlie Hustle, Peter Edward Rose, that alone excites me," Gomes said Monday night after signing a minor league contract with the Reds worth $600,000, with another $200,000 in incentives, if he makes the big league team.

It doesn't just end there, of course. Like George Clooney, Gomes is attracted to the appeal of the Big Red Machine, and also the 1990 Reds featuring one of his former coaches and current Red first base coach Billy Hatcher. Gomes also said heís excited to play for Dusty Baker, whom he grew up watching with the Giants and the A's. As a Northern California native, he also grew up watching the Oakland A's team that current Red general manager Walt Jocketty helped build.

But of all of them, Rose is the one the 28-year old most identifies with. Years ago, Gomes was in Las Vegas and had bought a picture of Rose sliding head-first into home and went to a signing to have the Hit King sign his picture. While there, Gomes said he got to talking with Rose and Charlie Hustle gave him a jersey and signed it.

"That's No. 1 in my collection," Gomes said.

Gomes said he can't promise 4,256 hits, a .300 average or any other number, but he said he can promise two things when he gets on the field: "One, respect the game and the people who play the game and two, hustle," Gomes said. "It's a shame you can't say that about everyone because it's the easiest thing you can do, hustle."

Gomes struggled in 2008, hitting just .182 with eight home runs and 21 RBIs. In August, he was optioned to Class AAA Durham to make room for pitcher Ben Zoberist and was then recalled in September when the roster was expanded.

Gomes was not on the Rays' playoff roster, but was still one of the most visible Rays during the postseason, leading celebrations and rallying behind his teammates.

"From my background and my childhood and what it took to get to the big leagues, to get a chance to put on a uniform in the post-season, I'm not turning that down for the world," Gomes said. "We had a lot of blood, sweat and tears with those other 24 guys and I was going to be there for them and be a part of that."

Gomes, a right-handed hitter who has played both outfield corner spots and designated hitter, is a career .235 hitter with 66 home runs. In 2005, he was third in American League Rookie of the Year voting, hitting .282 with 21 home runs and 54 RBIs.

Jocketty could not be reached Monday night, but had said he was looking to get a player with some pop off the bench and Gomes could qualify. Gomes hit 20 homers in 2006 and 17 in 2007.

Gomes said he talked to Baker before signing, but hasnít talked to his manager or general manager since signing, so he doesnít know the Redsí plans for him.

"I'm going to come into camp 100 percent shape ready to play every day," Gomes said. "In eight years with Tampa, I was never promised a job, but I came into camp healthy, willing to play every day."

Gomes had spent his entire career with the Rays and said he doesn't know as much about the National League. He's, of course, heard how Great American Ball Park plays and is excited to play in the notoriously hitter-friendly park. Although he doesn't know many of the players on the Reds, he has looked at the roster and likes what he sees.

"I've gone through a lot of ups and downs watching with Tampa, I was there when I thought we could win 100 games, but what you want to see young upside and the least amount of distractions of possible in the clubhouse," Gomes said. "And the Reds have that."

With that, Gomes said he hopes he can provide a similar leadership to what he gave the Rays last season.

"I think one thing that's big in this game is leading by example and the other is success," Gomes said. "With success comes fun. That's what we did last year and we built off of that."

Ghosts of 1990
01-20-2009, 02:29 AM
this was our big RH bat.

Stephenk29
01-20-2009, 02:36 AM
Kinda cool to see him so pumped to be a Red.

It's a good signing, but unfortunetly he will be asked to do more than he can really provide. He is probably the perfect bench type player a good team needs. Things will really fall together if they find a true big right handed bat. I'm not that optimistic though, and its unfortunate that Gomes will probably take some barage of hate from all of us unfairly because he wasn't the bat we wanted him to be.

Ghosts of 1990
01-20-2009, 02:52 AM
He's a good clubhouse guy, a good young man. But this just isnt what we needed. And lets all get real. It might as well have been a big league deal because he's going to be in Cincinnati opening day. Every year the Reds get a recycled OF or pitcher that they can try to sift into gold. Some work out to have a decent but not stellar season and go elsewhere for money and some are never heard from again.

I guess my hopes were just a lot higher.

DannyB
01-20-2009, 06:37 AM
cantu was the right hand bat
Just signed with the Marlins

Farnsie
01-20-2009, 06:39 AM
He's a good clubhouse guy, a good young man. But this just isnt what we needed. And lets all get real. It might as well have been a big league deal because he's going to be in Cincinnati opening day. Every year the Reds get a recycled OF or pitcher that they can try to sift into gold. Some work out to have a decent but not stellar season and go elsewhere for money and some are never heard from again.

I guess my hopes were just a lot higher.

I'm with you on the first line... What I like the most about him is his mentality and fighting spirit. Loved how he handled the Red Sox and the Shelley Duncan - Iwamura situation. I know, maybe it wasn't the smoothest thing to do but man was it lovely to watch.

timothy1
01-20-2009, 07:39 AM
I like that he's pumped up about becoming a Reds player but looking at his recent stats, I'm in a wait and see mode. Good move that it's mainly a minor league signing.

texasdave
01-20-2009, 12:21 PM
If you put two (Gomes doesn't make the Reds a strong playoff contender) and two (Gomes regains his stroke) together you just might get four (the Reds shine Gomes up strictly against LHers and flip him for a quality prospect at the trade deadline). After all what is the point of keeping Gomes in the second half of the season if the Reds aren't in contention and he is exiting stage right come October?

GOYA
01-20-2009, 05:05 PM
The deciding factor here is the reason behind Gomes' stats falling off the table last season. I saw him with Durham last year and I didn't see anything to be impressed with besides raw power.

mmt1552
01-20-2009, 05:45 PM
This is a solid, low risk, high reward kind of signing. If utilized correctly, Gomes as a right hand bat off the bench that gets some starts against left-handed pitching could work out very well. The problem is that if he's the everyday starting left fielder instead of a Dickerson or (hopefully) another potential free agent, then the Reds are going to be in trouble scoring runs next year.

NastyBoy
01-20-2009, 07:51 PM
Does anyone know if he has any ill effects from heart attack?

JoshFogg
01-20-2009, 09:38 PM
Gomes is terrible. A good team, or a team serious about being taken seriously, doesnt even look at or consider johnny gomes.

Emin3mShady07
01-20-2009, 10:02 PM
^^he has very good platoon splits against lefties and off the bench and as a spot starter he could help the team a decent amount

JoshFogg
01-20-2009, 10:10 PM
That is such a lame, worn out, and repetitive justification. YOu are not a politician, stop acting like one.

Slyder
01-20-2009, 10:15 PM
^^he has very good platoon splits against lefties and off the bench and as a spot starter he could help the team a decent amount

If he can hit the ball off anyone other than a little league pitcher or a tee. I wonder if teams have ever told a pitcher who was fairly safe to try and groove a few for guys like Gomes just to see if they couldnt get the reds to keep him around to watch him hit like Corey Patterson when the at bats started to count.

Emin3mShady07
01-20-2009, 10:37 PM
If he can hit the ball off anyone other than a little league pitcher or a tee. I wonder if teams have ever told a pitcher who was fairly safe to try and groove a few for guys like Gomes just to see if they couldnt get the reds to keep him around to watch him hit like Corey Patterson when the at bats started to count.

:laugh::laugh::laugh: That's funny, but c'mon Gomes isn't THAT bad. He cost 600K, that's barely anything. He may not take the team over the top but at the same time he wont prevent the organization from making a move that would help them compete. He is a viable backup option and a decen value signing IMO.

Slyder
01-20-2009, 11:03 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh: That's funny, but c'mon Gomes isn't THAT bad. He cost 600K, that's barely anything. He may not take the team over the top but at the same time he wont prevent the organization from making a move that would help them compete. He is a viable backup option and a decen value signing IMO.

But thats all the Reds have done at best. Is sign a bunch of nice backup options. To fling them against the wall and hope one sticks.

Yes I was busting on him a bit for humor sake :thumbup:. I am just tired to see thats ALL the Reds do.

Ghosts of 1990
01-20-2009, 11:15 PM
That is such a lame, worn out, and repetitive justification. YOu are not a politician, stop acting like one.

Dude, your namesake is about the worst Red of lifetime.

Emin3mShady07
01-20-2009, 11:39 PM
But thats all the Reds have done at best. Is sign a bunch of nice backup options. To fling them against the wall and hope one sticks.
Yes I was busting on him a bit for humor sake :thumbup:. I am just tired to see thats ALL the Reds do.

I know that's frustrating.

JoshFogg
01-20-2009, 11:47 PM
Dude, your namesake is about the worst Red of lifetime.

ya, that is why Fogg is my username

Ghosts of 1990
01-21-2009, 01:19 AM
ya, that is why Fogg is my username

fair enough. haha

Farnsie
01-23-2009, 07:50 PM
Well I guess I'll rather take Gomes before Rob Mackowiak.


According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post the Mets will sign Rob Mackowiak to a minor league contract worth at least $600K. Incentives based on plate appearances could raise the value of the deal by $200K.

Jerome
01-29-2009, 07:53 PM
There is one thing I know, and that is Jonny Gomes will beat the living crap out of you if you cross him.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com/search/label/Jonny%20Gomes

Steviejoe
01-29-2009, 08:01 PM
Not a bad move,way to go Walt.