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View Full Version : Enough of the Negativity...how about some bright spots!



Orodle
01-22-2009, 12:54 PM
1. We have POTENTIALLY the best starting rotation in the national league.

2. Rhodes will only help the bullpen

3. Our defense in the outfield got better (how could it get worse than Dunn and Jr. range wise?)

4. Tavares stole 68 bases in his worst offensive season ever

5. Bruce & Votto should only get better

6. Other than the Cubs, we have a chance to rack up a lot of wins against mid to low level teams. Of course I never count the Cardinals out....LaRussa wont allow them to be losers.


Please reply with other POSITIVES, there are enough negative threads on this board others can clutter.

Ohioballplayer
01-22-2009, 12:56 PM
Orodle,

I agree, so looks like we end up going with a youth movement, I am one of the guys that lobbied for Griff and Dunner to be gone (because of contractual issues), however with that being said I do think we have the best starting rotation in the NL.

Nasty_Boy
01-22-2009, 01:32 PM
Sorry, but I don't see those as positives.


1. We have POTENTIALLY the best starting rotation in the national league.

2. Rhodes will only help the bullpen

3. Our defense in the outfield got better (how could it get worse than Dunn and Jr. range wise?)

4. Tavares stole 68 bases in his worst offensive season ever

5. Bruce & Votto should only get better

6. Other than the Cubs, we have a chance to rack up a lot of wins against mid to low level teams. Of course I never count the Cardinals out....LaRussa wont allow them to be losers.


1. The Cubs, Dbacks, Giants, and more than likely the Marlins, Braves, and Mets say hello.

2. Rhodes is good, but he's a step down from Affeldt.

3. Taveras is worse than Patterson. Gomes if he gets the ABs in LF, he's MUCH MUCH worse than Dunn defensively.

4. He still scored less runs than stolen bases (SBs 68, Runs 64). What good did the stolen bases do?

5. With this I agree... I still worry about Bruces pitch selection. It also scares me that when he strikes out 160+times that the fans will turn on him.

6. We haven't been able to beat Houston, Pittsburgh, or Milwaukee consistently even when we were better than them. And as long as Albert is in StL they are a force.


Now, here's my HOPE's (we have very few sure things)

1. Edwin, Jay, and Phillips learn to control the plate and play within themselves. Don't listen to Dusty and just hack at the plate.

2. Harang returns to form (biggest thing that needs to happen), Johnny takes a big step forward, Arroyo stays consistent, Volquie doesn't regress, and Owings is league average. I think Arroyo is the only sure bet of the five. Although I believe that Johnny and Edison will be really go over the next 4-5 years.

3. Gomes and Dickerson form a platoon that is dangerous and productive.

4. Gonzo is able to play 130-140 games at SS. We really need his glove. If not, hopefully Valaika is playing well enough at Louisville that he is in Cincy by the end of May.

5. The bullpen doesn't fall apart due to Dusty's poor game management and the age of Cordero, Weather, and Rhodes.

6. Taveras gets hurt and Stubbs and Dickerson share the CF duties, while Frazier finds himself getting ABs in LF if Gomes doesn't pan out. Maybe even Dorn.

CesarGeronimo
01-22-2009, 01:45 PM
That's a good list, Nasty Boy. I'm discouraged about the off-season and the management and direction of this franchise, but you do point out some possibilities for a little bit of hope. I'm trying to come up with another one regarding Dusty - such as he buys winning Powerball ticket and abruptly retires - but can't come up with anything that's even vaguely realistic. Maybe Corey Patterson finally releases those compromising photos, leading to a sudden dismissal?

redsfandan
01-22-2009, 01:48 PM
Last year we only had 85 sb as a team. In '09 that could easily increase 50% thanks to Taveras (40+), Phillips (20+), Dickerson (20+), Hairston (15+), Bruce (10+), & Votto (10+).

Nasty_Boy
01-22-2009, 02:07 PM
Unless those SB's translate into runs (see Taveras 68 sb, 64 runs), it isn't going to matter especially if we aren't successful at least 80% of the time. If all of the guys you mention are getting on base at .350 clip or better, then the SB becomes a weapon. Otherwise, its just some numbers that don't add up to any more wins than in years past.

Orodle
01-22-2009, 02:29 PM
Orodle,

I agree, so looks like we end up going with a youth movement, I am one of the guys that lobbied for Griff and Dunner to be gone (because of contractual issues), however with that being said I do think we have the best starting rotation in the NL.

I didnt say we had the best rotation. Potentially we have the talent there. I guess typing in caps because I knew someone would still fail to read was not enough.

redsfandan
01-22-2009, 02:33 PM
It isn't unrealistic for the era from the #5 starter spot to be 2 runs better than last year.

Ghosts of 1990
01-22-2009, 02:40 PM
1. I think Jay Bruce could become a superstar ahead of schedule. A 33 HR, 100 RBI, .280 superstar with 14 stolen bases.

2. If Brandon Phillips does what he usually does and Edwin Encarnacion plays like we've all been waiting on, then I don't think we're all that thin from the right side of the plate.

3. Hairston and Taveras (with Bruce, Dickerson among others) might cause problems for pitchers on the basepaths. We're no longer a station to station team.

4.If we're anywhere close to in it at the deadline Jocketty and Castellini will make the move to help us. Its just being competitive until then that is the problem.

5. Obviously I like our rotation to give us a chance on most nights

reds77
01-22-2009, 02:47 PM
Hell, even if people agree with the original post that these are positives, they just are not simply enough for the Reds to be a winning team.

Carin4Narron
01-22-2009, 02:58 PM
I can be neagative if I want! This team has been poorly run for a decade now. I am SICK AND TIRED OF IT! 3rd or 4th place fever CATCH IT! Personally, I took the shot for it!

GOYA
01-22-2009, 03:16 PM
The Reds are one year closer to the end of Dusty's contract.

Catcher and 5th starter should be considerably better than last season.

Ghosts of 1990
01-22-2009, 03:20 PM
Hell, even if people agree with the original post that these are positives, they just are not simply enough for the Reds to be a winning team.

We aren't going to be a winning team most likely. If we are, itd take a lot of freak things to go right and we wouldn't go 90-72 or anything. We'd be 83-79 or something like that.

But I think Cincinnati fans are so used to losing they've accepted it. The Bengals are partly to blame.

IMO, this thread is saying, "yeah we are probably going to be mediocre again; but this is what will be fun to watch"

If you're a reds fan, you have to have a reason to have a rooting interest aside from the brand of baseball we play. It has been bad baseball for too long (that 1999 team played great baseball and 2000 was scrappy). But other then that, if you dont have players you enjoy watching you'd watch someone else or not watch at all because its just not top of the line baseball.

Orodle
01-22-2009, 03:25 PM
Hell, even if people agree with the original post that these are positives, they just are not simply enough for the Reds to be a winning team.

If the Reds starting rotation reaches their potential I dont see how they could not be a winning team.

fewfirstchoice
01-22-2009, 03:25 PM
There is 0 things (nothing) you could say about the Reds that are positive as a whole in a team. Yes there are indivituals you can look at as a positive but nothing as a team will be positive for the Reds in 09. They will be lucky to win 70 games. Bob Cast. is a liar and now hes trying to hide behind hte media in a attempt to hide is ways. If they were going to rebulid why not say so.Why get the hopes up of the fan base. He should have cam straight out and said were going to rebuild. But another loser owner for the Reds,just like the bengals now. Whe can the Cincinnati teams get owners that would try and win for the fans of he teams. But at least the Reds have a GM. May not be a world beater but he is a Gm.

smoke6
01-22-2009, 03:28 PM
We will be better behind the dish this year. IMO

Ghosts of 1990
01-22-2009, 03:35 PM
I kind of understand some of the people who are upset.

I was led to believe that Bob Castellini was going to make a splash and Walt Jocketty is a smart man, he knows this current group is just slightly better then all those Pittsburgh Pirates teams all these years. This team isn't greatly improved. Now we have a "payroll budget". People all last season talked about using Dunn money to sign this guy and Griffey money to sign that guy..... ha. It really goes straight back into Bob's pockets. He's a Lindner at heart maybe.

Also, wouldn't it be nice to go out and make a splash in free agency, just once? Just one time. You know, how sad is it that my signing I'm most excited about is Arthur Rhodes? I'm not trying to hate on our team too much. I'll be dutiful in my fanship and I'll write about this team and spend my money and go to my 15-20 games from Columbus and I'll watch every night on television.... but there are some things that don't fit. It's easy to see our manager doesn't match the talent or fit the young players on this roster and wont. This is an experiment that wont end well.

Nasty_Boy
01-22-2009, 04:35 PM
Jay

I'm sorry but we cannot have BP do what he did last year and be successful. He was just as bad as Patterson after the All-Star break. That's not a small amount of at bats. He has a huge weakness when it comes to getting on base and staying within himself. He wants to be a slugger and it kills his value at the plate.

As far as the pitching, it will have to be lights out because the offense and defense are suspect. The big problem with that is the Reds play 81 games in a hitters paradise. Even good quality pitches end up in the seats. The Reds will need an ERA in the low to mid 3's to win with the current roster, and by win I mean at least be in the wild card chase.

The biggest positive is that Dusty is closer to the end of his contract... and maybe if this "isn't his team", he'll resign because the Reds aren't spending and winning.

GOYA
01-22-2009, 08:21 PM
The combined BAs of the outfielders will likely be higher than last year.

akron3344
01-22-2009, 09:22 PM
ano one who is positive about this random aggregation of anti sabermetrics, thinks that Andrew Johnson was a superior president

Brucey
01-22-2009, 09:59 PM
I think another posotive to add under the rotation is that there is a lot of competition for the 5th spot. Micah Owings, Ramon Ramirez, Daryl Thompson, Homer Bailey, and im sure there is someone i am missing.

JoshFogg
01-22-2009, 10:15 PM
i know this team sucks. sue me

redsfandan
01-22-2009, 10:17 PM
Expectations for the Reds will be so low on redszone that it will be harder for the Reds to disappoint. :p:

Captain Hook
01-22-2009, 11:30 PM
I can be neagative if I want! This team has been poorly run for a decade now. I am SICK AND TIRED OF IT! 3rd or 4th place fever CATCH IT! Personally, I took the shot for it!

3rd place could be just 1 game back from the wild card.I could live with that from such a young team.

CesarGeronimo
01-23-2009, 01:11 AM
1. Games will be shorter.
2. Fewer runners left on base.
3. Marty will no longer complain about Adam Dunn.
4. Better seats and shorter lines to buy beer, food and restrooms at GAB.
5. Dusty will be able to depend on his kind of guys, Taveras and Hairston, to save his job with their performance at the top of lineup.

redsfandan
01-23-2009, 02:44 AM
Unless those SB's translate into runs (see Taveras 68 sb, 64 runs), it isn't going to matter especially if we aren't successful at least 80% of the time. If all of the guys you mention are getting on base at .350 clip or better, then the SB becomes a weapon. Otherwise, its just some numbers that don't add up to any more wins than in years past.

I'm not sure I'd agree that we have to be successful 80% of the time or better for it to help. Only two teams had at least an 80% success rate last year. Most of the sb this year will be from Taveras, Phillips, and Dickerson and all three have shown the ability to steal at an 80% clip or better (Dickerson in the minors). Add in the sb from the other players and 120+ sb with a 75% success rate is doable. We would've been in the top 10 in both categories last year with those #'s. Instead we were last in sb (85) and 16th in sb success rate (64%). I'm not saying that we'll be able to run our way into the playoffs by any means but I think that kind of improvement can help win a couple more games.

Carin4Narron
01-23-2009, 10:17 AM
3rd place could be just 1 game back from the wild card.I could live with that from such a young team. Then, why bother following the team?