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View Full Version : Castellini to be -on- 700 WLW very soon!



LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:30 PM
With Cunningham.

redsmetz
01-23-2009, 02:32 PM
I'd love to hear what he has to say, but not with Cunningham interviewing him. Can someone give us a synopsis when it's over. I just won't subject myself to Cunningham.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 02:32 PM
I'd like to see this trick. Turning into a radio station. ;)

WMR
01-23-2009, 02:35 PM
I'd like to see this trick. Turning into a radio station. ;)

Chip you crack me up!!! :D

Tom Servo
01-23-2009, 02:37 PM
I'd like to see this trick. Turning into a radio station. ;)
Maybe he'd have more money to spend on free agents if he wasn't spending it all on this radio plastic surgery.

WMR
01-23-2009, 02:39 PM
Maybe he'd have more money to spend on free agents if he wasn't spending it all on this radio plastic surgery.

OUCH!!!! :D

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:39 PM
Interview starting at approximately 1:45pm

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:47 PM
Willy: Win now goes buy wayside? Is that true?
BC: No, we have not given up, we are excited about what we are putting on the field?

Willy: Asks about moves the likes of Taveras, at expense of power bat.
BC: We feel that we have shored up the center of the team in catcher, and centerfielder. We may still add a bat.

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:49 PM
Willy: Asks about the future of Baker and Jocketty if the Reds lose again.
BC: Politically correct answer

Willy asks about "Win now" mantra
BC: Truely believes they are a contender this year

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:51 PM
Willy: Will Dunn or Griffey be back? Where are the stars this year?
BC: Bruce, Votto, Phillips, and pitching staff are stars.

Willy: Willy asks more about Win now, Momma aint happy comment
BC: Believes the fans are happy with the moves. Claims sponsorships are up.

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:52 PM
Willy: You do every thing first class except between the lines!
BC: We will win this year. We will have a winning record this year.

Jpup
01-23-2009, 02:53 PM
Willy: You do every thing first class except between the lines!
BC: We will win this year. We will have a winning record this year.

That ain't happenin'.

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:54 PM
BC: Fans are excited about the young players

Willy: Fans are dying and starving for a winner.
BC: "We are high on this team that we are putting on the field this year."

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 02:54 PM
Interview over.

dsmith421
01-23-2009, 02:56 PM
Willy asks about "Win now" mantra
BC: Truely believes they are a contender this year

Bill of goods. Same old crap from this franchise.

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 03:01 PM
I'd like to see this trick. Turning into a radio station. ;)

I hate that we can't edit thread titles. I just caught that.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 03:01 PM
Willy: You do every thing first class except between the lines!
BC: We will win this year. We will have a winning record this year.


So, is he going to claim that was taken out of context as well?

Cyclone792
01-23-2009, 03:06 PM
That discussion was completely laughable. It was Bob spinning his wheels and trying to undo what he did yesterday combined with Bob rambling on about how much he loves this year's team and how this year's team is going to win.

Oh well, WLW does have some nice one liner sound clips from Bob that I'm sure they'll play. When they're 15 games under .500 in late July and trying to sell players for cash, I'm sure we'll start hearing the "We're going to win. We're going to contend" sound bites again.

RedsManRick
01-23-2009, 03:06 PM
The unasked question is: "Why in the world should we believe your assessment of the quality of the team when you've been nothing but wrong thus far?"

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 03:06 PM
So, is he going to claim that was taken out of context as well?

Willy doesn't let things like that slip into the ether. That will come back to haunt BC.

Always Red
01-23-2009, 03:11 PM
Willy: Willy asks more about Win now, Momma aint happy comment
BC: Believes the fans are happy with the moves. Claims sponsorships are up.

I am trying to believe that statement above by Castellini in light of his statement yesterday:


By John Fay • January 22, 2009

Bob Castellini, the Reds chief executive officer, said for the first time this morning that the struggling economy is affecting the Reds' budget, and suggested that fans should not expect any major additions to the club at this point.

General manager Walt Jocketty reiterated the message and said the club is already close to budget as far as the payroll goes.

So, which is it, Bob?? If "sponsorships are up" and the players payroll stays the same, doesn't that mean more $ is going into your pocket?

If sponsorships are up, doesn't it follow that payroll should also be up, and that the economy is not affecting the business?

Anyone else getting a mixed message here?:eek:

cumberlandreds
01-23-2009, 03:22 PM
If sponsorships are up then your own economy should be up. But they said they aren't spending more because of the economy is bad. Geeesh make up your mind! He is fast turning into nothing but a big windbag that may turn into a complete caricature before all is said and done.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-23-2009, 03:23 PM
Bill should have asked him why he's wearing no clothes.

princeton
01-23-2009, 03:25 PM
Bill should have asked him why he's wearing no clothes.

radio stations don't dress

KronoRed
01-23-2009, 03:34 PM
So, is he going to claim that was taken out of context as well?

Define winning, if they win one game he can claim that's all he meant :D

lollipopcurve
01-23-2009, 03:36 PM
Why would a business owner do anything but praise his product?

UKFlounder
01-23-2009, 03:38 PM
Perhaps they have a few more low-dollar sponsorships. The actualy # of sponsorships could be higher, but at a lower average price, meaning less actual money coming in. If you take him literally, that migt be one way. (Or it might just be more spin.)


If sponsorships are up then your own economy should be up. But they said they aren't spending more because of the economy is bad. Geeesh make up your mind! He is fast turning into nothing but a big windbag that may turn into a complete caricature before all is said and done.

Cyclone792
01-23-2009, 03:44 PM
So, which is it, Bob?? If "sponsorships are up" and the players payroll stays the same, doesn't that mean more $ is going into your pocket?

If sponsorships are up, doesn't it follow that payroll should also be up, and that the economy is not affecting the business?

Anyone else getting a mixed message here?:eek:

Let's not forget dude ... let's not forget ... that Bob also said season ticket sales are right about where they were last year!

Sponsorships up + season ticket sales maintained = the economy's killing the Reds!

Or so says Bob. ;)

Always Red
01-23-2009, 03:48 PM
Let's not forget dude ... let's not forget ... that Bob also said season ticket sales are right about where they were last year!

Sponsorships up + season ticket sales maintained = the economy's killing the Reds!

Or so says Bob. ;)

I'm getting dizzy from Bob's spinning...

:barf:

toledodan
01-23-2009, 04:02 PM
Why would a business owner do anything but praise his product?


true, but to think the fans are happy with the moves is a joke.:eek::thumbdown

BuckeyeRedleg
01-23-2009, 04:11 PM
true, but to think the fans are happy with the moves is a joke.:eek::thumbdown


Go to mlb.com or the espn and cincy.com message boards. The common fan thinks we are heading in the right direction with the moves made.

Just listen to the banana phone callers. That represents a majority of Bob's fan base. Seriously.

Raisor
01-23-2009, 04:11 PM
Willy asks about "Win now" mantra
BC: Truely believes they are a contender this year

contending at what?

I see a loop hole.

Reds4Life
01-23-2009, 04:15 PM
If Bob thinks this team is going to have a winning record, I wonder how many drinks he had at lunch?

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 04:15 PM
contending at what?

I see a loop hole.

He talked about playing in October. I am sure the podcast will be up soon for you to hear it for yourself.

Raisor
01-23-2009, 04:18 PM
He talked about playing in October. I am sure the podcast will be up soon for you to hear it for yourself.

playing cards
playing soccer
playing videogames
playing the slots

_Sir_Charles_
01-23-2009, 04:23 PM
Let's not forget dude ... let's not forget ... that Bob also said season ticket sales are right about where they were last year!

Sponsorships up + season ticket sales maintained = the economy's killing the Reds!

Or so says Bob. ;)

Now come on, there's a LOT more to the "economy" than just sponsorships & season tickets. In general, most things are costing more across the board. I'm fairly certain that his expenses have gone up considerably (outside of payroll). It's a certain bet that he's trying to put the best light possible on his team but at the same time trying to limit people's expectations due to the budget constraints, but I don't think he's exaggerating the current financial times.

Jpup
01-23-2009, 04:26 PM
Now come on, there's a LOT more to the "economy" than just sponsorships & season tickets. In general, most things are costing more across the board. I'm fairly certain that his expenses have gone up considerably (outside of payroll). It's a certain bet that he's trying to put the best light possible on his team but at the same time trying to limit people's expectations due to the budget constraints, but I don't think he's exaggerating the current financial times.

He seems to have very high expectations. He said the Reds would have a winning record in '09. Anyone believe that will happen?

Chip R
01-23-2009, 04:32 PM
O.K., I can spin this for Bob. What he meant by "winning record" was that if an asteroid had destroyed the earth after 50 games then the Reds would have had a winning record if you count all the wins they had after 162 games.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-23-2009, 04:32 PM
He seems to have very high expectations. He said the Reds would have a winning record in '09. Anyone believe that will happen?

Only if they are a freakshow and outperform their pythag by say 12-15 games.

SteelSD
01-23-2009, 04:34 PM
He talked about playing in October. I am sure the podcast will be up soon for you to hear it for yourself.

Yeah. I listened to the whole shameless segment online. At one point, after Castellini claimed that the Reds would have a "winning record", he then felt he needed to enhance that with another demand of "contender" status. It was as if he figured out that it's better to lie big than lie little.

Always Red pretty much nailed it. Little more than 24 hours ago, the "economy" was the reason the Reds were now standing pat. Now sponsorships are up and the claim is that attendance really might not look to be affected. The latter makes sense because when you rank 14th in the your league in attendance in the first place, there isn't a whole lot of room to fall. But the former statement is completely contradictory versus yesterday's cries of poverty.

We just got fed a snake oil cocktail with a strychnine-laced kool-aid chaser, folks.

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 04:35 PM
Now come on, there's a LOT more to the "economy" than just sponsorships & season tickets. In general, most things are costing more across the board. I'm fairly certain that his expenses have gone up considerably (outside of payroll). It's a certain bet that he's trying to put the best light possible on his team but at the same time trying to limit people's expectations due to the budget constraints, but I don't think he's exaggerating the current financial times.

Enlighten us. What has The Big Man, and his sidekicks WonderWalt and DustMan, done to shine the "best light possible" on this team? Sign Wily Taveras?

The team would have money for a useful bat in left and more money to spend, had they not traded for Hernandez, signed Taveras, Lincoln, and brought back Weathers.

They could have brought in Pudge Rodriguez or Varitek (via some sort of creative trade with the Redsox) for peanuts (they seem to have financial diarrhea from the peanuts they did eat), kept Freel to be Dickerson's caddie in CF, used other bullpen alternatives from within or the outside at much lower prices.

Suddenly a Bobby Abreu or Pat Burrell would be signed very easily.

Wily Taveras will be the albatross of this season. Dusty, Walt, and Bob C, should all have to wear shirts with the letters WT on them. Sometime in May the general fan consciousness, will realize those letters really mean "Worthless Turd".

Always Red
01-23-2009, 04:42 PM
true, but to think the fans are happy with the moves is a joke.:eek::thumbdown

Sadly, my friends (many of whom are casual Reds fans), are happy only because Adam Dunn is gone. Marty did a very effective job of blaming the Reds woes on one guy. The guy who just happened to be their best player.

This used to be a great baseball town, with intelligent baseball fans. No longer.

Let the winning begin.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 04:45 PM
Yeah. I listened to the whole shameless segment online. At one point, after Castellini claimed that the Reds would have a "winning record", he then felt he needed to enhance that with another demand of "contender" status. It was as if he figured out that it's better to lie big than lie little.


If you're going to lie, lie big.

Caveat Emperor
01-23-2009, 04:46 PM
If you're going to lie, lie big.

At this point, if Bob Castellini introduced himself to me, I'd demand to see some ID.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 04:48 PM
At this point, if Bob Castellini introduced himself to me, I'd demand to see some ID.


You wouldn't want to confuse him with Admiral James Stockdale.

LoganBuck
01-23-2009, 04:48 PM
Sadly, my friends (many of whom are casual Reds fans), are happy only because Adam Dunn is gone. Marty did a very effective job of blaming the Reds woes on one guy. The guy who just happened to be their best player.

This used to be a great baseball town, with intelligent baseball fans. No longer.

Let the winning begin.

I hear you. My best friend, keeps telling me that. He puts a whole bunch of stock into what happened during the last six weeks of the season. I keep reminding him about not over valuing what happens in September. He isn't buying. He is just ecstatic that Dunn is gone. He rubs my nose in it whenever he can. He actually thinks Wily Taveras is what this team needs.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 04:49 PM
I hate that we can't edit thread titles. I just caught that.


:D

Caveat Emperor
01-23-2009, 04:50 PM
You wouldn't want to confuse him with Admiral James Stockdale.

At this point I see him as more of a Captain Peter Peachfuzz:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/PeterPeachfuzz.jpg

SteelSD
01-23-2009, 04:59 PM
If you're going to lie, lie big.

And lie a LOT. That way, if you get caught you only have to own up to one or two of them to get everyone to keep believing the rest.

Well, either that or just blame the media for taking your exact words and pulling them out of context.

membengal
01-23-2009, 05:02 PM
Exactly steel. Lie. Lie big. And when called on your lie, blame others. The media. The fans. Whomever. Always someone elses fault.

Lying. Because you can.

SteelSD
01-23-2009, 05:08 PM
Exactly steel. Lie. Lie big. And when called on your lie, blame others. The media. The fans. Whomever. Always someone elses fault.

Lying. Because you can.

Told 'em we're gonna start winnin' (It wasn't me)
Heard me lyin' about payroll (It wasn't me)
Even signed Willy Taveras (It wasn't me)
Now we'll field a contender (It wasn't me)

princeton
01-23-2009, 05:13 PM
most things are costing more across the board.

lotta deflation out there, actually

Adam Dunn's salary, for instance. my house. even my new hybrid that I'm hoping to still have a job for three years in order to finish the payments

in spite of deflation, Reds fans are going to get about the same team (minus Adam Dunn) for about the same money.

I can't say that's bad GMing, because I think that Cast's budget caught WJ by surprise. But it's not great GMing, either. And the Reds need a great GM.

Jpup
01-23-2009, 05:22 PM
From C-Trent's Blog:

Bob Castellini was on Bill Cunningham's show on 700 WLW this afternoon and this is what he had to say:

Cunningham: There's a story here in the Enquirer that says, "Win Now, Goes By Wayside" -- is that true?

Castellini: No. (chuckles)

Cunningham: That's what the headline says in the Enquirer

Castellini: I guess it does say that, but if you read the article it doesn't say we're not going to win this year. It's minimized. It maybe says we haven't given up on this year. And we certainly haven't given up on this year. On the other hand, we're ecstatic about what we’re going to put on the field this year.

Cunningham: Do you think you've done enough with additions like Willy Taveras and Ramon Hernandez and resigned Jerry Hairston, Weathers and Lincoln, is that upgrading? What happened to the leftfielder with all the power you were going to get?

Castellini: Well, there's still possibly a leftfielder, a right-handed batter out there. It's getting late. We tried to get that spot filled. In the meantime, when we signed Willy to play center field and we've got Jerry to play left field with Chris Dickerson and (Norris) Hopper if Alex comes back at shortstop. But we feel we've really sured up our center with our catcher and Taveras and whoever plays shortstop, whether it's Hairston or Alex -- that's our one big question mark.

Cunningham: One thing I like about you, which I don't like about Mike Brown, when you had a chance to go get a baseball announcer, you go get Thom Brennaman. When you had a chance to go get a manager, you got Dusty Baker. When you had a chance to go get a G.M., you got Walt Jocketty. In other words, you change. You have three G.M.s, three field managers -- I don't see that as change, as much as I see Bob Castelllini working hard and you get the right people in place. I'm thinking if you fail again this year, will we have four general managers and four field managers? Because failing is winning and losing and Bob Castellini's not had one winning season in three years.

Castellini: You're absolutely right. But we’ve built an organization with these people you talk about and they're here for a long, long time. We're not looking to change. We feel very, very confident for this year. The second part of that article, I probably asked for myself. I was funning with John (Fay) and I said, you know when I told you we're going to win right away and you took it out of context, what I really meant was the interpretation was wrong and maybe that's my fault too.

Cunningham: Seg-man Dennison told me you said, "We've come to a point where we're just not going to lose anymore."

Castellini: Right, we were losing with our organization. We didn't have a winning attitude, we didn't have a winning organization. We changed all that. We're on the right track. What really irritates me is people think we're writing off this year. We have an excellent team. We have a contender. Barring injuries, we're going to be in there at the end. You can quote me on that, at the end of the year if we're not in there at the end, you can play it back forever. But I really feel that way and our organization feels that way.

Cunningham: Last year the Reds finished 23-and-a-half games out of first and you had Griffey and Dunn as your marquee players. Every organization needs a star, like here, I'm a star. You need a star. Griffey and Dunn, those guys are now done. Is Dunn possibly coming back to play left field?

Castellini: I wouldn’t say that.

Cunningham: How about Griffey?

Castellini: I wouldn't say that, but we've got a budding star in Joey Votto, I think he's going to break into stardom this year. We've got Jay Bruce and I think he's in the same category. And we’ve got the Gold Glover (Bandon Phillips) who is outstanding. And on top of that, we've got a starting rotation with four people and three very, very viable people to be the fifth starter and we've got the best bullpen in the division.

Cunningham: Are you having fun Bob Castellini?

Castellini: I'm having a lot of fun.

Cunningham: Are you sure?

Castellini: I'm just so pumped up about this team, I'm getting excited about it, Bill.

Cunningham: Are you sure?

Castellini: Yeah.

Cunningham: I'm not so sure. You took over in January 2006 and you said things like "we're going to win, we're going to win now. My wife Susie has a pillow that says, 'if Momma's not happy, nobody's happy.'" I don't think Bob Castellini is happy.

Castellini: I wouldn't say that at all. In fact, you're wrong. Articles like that, if I'm part of the problem, I apologize, but those kind of articles make the fans unhappy. In fact, the fans are pretty darn happy. The feedback we get from our fans for tickets and so forth, are very positive and the people that are cutting down on ticket purchases are still buying tickets and telling us it's the economy, it's not the direction of the Reds.

Cunningham: How many season ticket holders do you have?

Castellini: We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

Cunningham: Is it up or down from last year?

Castellini: We don't know, but it's not going to be that far off. And I'll tell you something else, Bill, our sponsorships are up.

Cunningham: Really?

Castellini: I'd say that the Reds are perceived to be going in the right direction. If the owner fouls up with an interview and sets them back, I'll have to get on the most publicized show in town and try to correct it and I appreciate you letting me come on and say a few things.

Cunningham: I have the upmost respect for you and Phil… You do everything first class except the team. You do everything first-class except for what's between the white lines.

Castellini: Maybe we'll have to get rid of the owner if it doesn't work out this year.

Cunningham: Do you see yourself selling if it doesn't work out?

Castellini: Absolutely not.

Cunningham: No?

Castellini: No.

Cunningham: You're going to stay with it for the next five-to-10 years no matter what?

Castellini: You betcha.

Cunningham: And you're going to win?

Castellini: You betcha.

Cunningham: You're going to win?

Castellini: Yes sir.

Cunningham: You're going to win this year?

Castellini: We're going to win this year.

Cunningham: You are?

Castellini: We're going to have a winning record this year, Bill. And we're going to be contenders and we might well be into it at the end of the season. I told everyone in Louisville that we hope to see them up at Great American Ball Park in October.

(Here they talk about RedsFest and the Caravan -- I didn’t type it up -- Castellini talks about the fans in Louisville where he was last night )

Cunningham: Bob, you’re a Cincinnatian from birth, like me, and been around your whole life and I'm thinking the Bengals have stunk for 20 years, UC Bearcat basketball is in the crapper, Xavier's good but a lot of people don't care, but we are Reds country and you haven’t had a winning season since you've owned the club, we've only had one the entire century and we're dying and starving for a winner and I think we have the right organization, all you need is a few better players. That's all you need. I can agree with you, why do you want to spend $100 million when you're going to lose $30 or $40 million a year, you can't do that, right?

Castellini: Right. But in all seriousness, Bill, we're high on this team that we’re putting on the field this year.

_Sir_Charles_
01-23-2009, 05:27 PM
Enlighten us. What has The Big Man, and his sidekicks WonderWalt and DustMan, done to shine the "best light possible" on this team? Sign Wily Taveras?

The team would have money for a useful bat in left and more money to spend, had they not traded for Hernandez, signed Taveras, Lincoln, and brought back Weathers.

They could have brought in Pudge Rodriguez or Varitek (via some sort of creative trade with the Redsox) for peanuts (they seem to have financial diarrhea from the peanuts they did eat), kept Freel to be Dickerson's caddie in CF, used other bullpen alternatives from within or the outside at much lower prices.

Suddenly a Bobby Abreu or Pat Burrell would be signed very easily.

Wily Taveras will be the albatross of this season. Dusty, Walt, and Bob C, should all have to wear shirts with the letters WT on them. Sometime in May the general fan consciousness, will realize those letters really mean "Worthless Turd".

You misunderstood me. When I said he's trying to put the best light on his team, I'm talking about spin. He's doing the PR stuff to make the team look better to the fans. I wasn't talking about actual moves.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 05:33 PM
"If you believe it, it's not a lie."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/images/10/09/costanza_clicks.jpg

Ltlabner
01-23-2009, 05:37 PM
I understand he has to put the best face on everything since it's his product. He's not going to come out and say, "yep, we blow...".

So it would seem the best option is to say nothing. Do no interviews. Continue going through the motions and pretending everything is dandy. Just keep quiet and act as if all is well. See you again in offseason 2009/2010 (maybe).

If you absolutely, positively must give an interview maybe focus on how wacky the market has been and how it's made team building "challenging" or something. But for God's sake don't try to sell me on this pile of warm feces you claim to be an MLB team.

I posted elsewhere on a different thread about how the Great Punt of 2009 was bad enough, but the real insult would come when the Reds try to tell me how great of a team they have, how they really put together a solid squad, how this team will be exciting. All in the face of mountains of evidence to show they've done diddly thus far.

My friends, we have just been insulted.

Jpup
01-23-2009, 05:38 PM
I understand he has to put the best face on everything since it's his product. He's not going to come out and say, "yep, we blow...".

So it would seem the best option is to say nothing. Do no interviews. Continue going through the motions and pretending everything is dandy.

If you absolutely, positively must give an interview maybe focus on how wacky the market has been and how it's made team building "challenging" or something.

I posted elsewhere on a different thread about how the Great Punt of 2009 was bad enough, but the real insult would come when the Reds try to tell me how great of a team they have, how they really put together a solid squad, how this team will be exciting. All in the face of mountains of evidence to show they've done diddly thus far.

My friends, we have just been insulted.

They are "baseball men" and they know more than we do. Just ask them.

Krusty
01-23-2009, 05:52 PM
There is plenty of time between now and Opening Day to pick up that power hitting leftfielder whether it's Xavier Nady, Jermaine Dye or someone else.

I just don't understand why people are panicking when it is only January.

Always Red
01-23-2009, 05:57 PM
There is plenty of time between now and Opening Day to pick up that power hitting leftfielder whether it's Xavier Nady, Jermaine Dye or someone else.

I just don't understand why people are panicking when it is only January.

Maybe because they told us yesterday they were done, they couldn't afford more, and this is the team they were putting on the field for 2009?

panic? No, I think we're further up the scale towards apathy of late...

Unassisted
01-23-2009, 06:03 PM
"On the other hand, we're ecstatic about what we’re going to put on the field this year."

"But in all seriousness, Bill, we're high on this team that we’re putting on the field this year."

I wish Cunningham would have had him lock in the context of those sentences for us, so that we don't get accused of taking them out of context later.

I suspect that he will tell us later what he really meant to say was "We were high when we thought this should be the team we would put on the field this year." :D

NJReds
01-23-2009, 06:13 PM
http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/rsz/434/x/x/x/medias/nmedia/18/62/91/22/18890456.jpg

"All right, I'm going to level with you all. But what's most important now is that you remain calm. There is no reason to panic."

TRF
01-23-2009, 06:20 PM
Steinbrenner, George, not that bufoon Hank had no problem criticizing GM's, managers even players. And it worked. He's the most successful owner in baseball. God, I'd LOVE it if BCast came out and said...


Honestly, I don't see a LF out there worth their reported asking price. I'm not speaking for other owners, but some kind of realism has to set in that these are hard times. I get that the player needs to fight for what he thinks he, and his agent of course, is worth, but we owe it to our patrons to not ignore this economy. Season Ticket sales are about what they were last year, but season ticket holders are die hards. We love them too. But the casual fan is one we cannot ignore and frankly, if this economy doesn't turn around, we expect a hit there. I won't lie, we are concerned about it.

As for Dunn and Griffey, I think, and Walt would probably back me up on this, we just want to turn the page on that era. Both are great players and we wish them well, but we have other directions we want to take this team.

I'm as stumped as you on the Taveras signing. My grandkids haven't stopped complaining about it. One even has a fire Dusty t-shirt. He won't take the damn thing off.

westofyou
01-23-2009, 06:20 PM
http://baseballminutia.com/images/mr.gif

Krusty
01-23-2009, 06:34 PM
Maybe because they told us yesterday they were done, they couldn't afford more, and this is the team they were putting on the field for 2009?

panic? No, I think we're further up the scale towards apathy of late...



Have you heard of the old saying....smoke and mirrors? All teams are crying poverty right now with the economy. Essentially what they are doing is driving down free agent prices to rock bottom and players are forced to take a contract. Really, how many teams are knocking down Adam Dunn's door to come play for them? How many teams are out there trying to acquire Junior's services? You don't think Scott Boras milks everything he can to get the best contract for his client? Same with major league teams. They will do everything they can to pay the least amount for a free agent with the exception of the New York Yankees and possibly the New York Mets. The outfield free agent market was set with the Pat Burrell's signing. Do you think Adam Dunn will get that much of a better deal?

Like I said what the Reds say in January is one thing. Come Opening Day and this is the lineup they are running with then I will join everyone else and say this team is set on another year of mediocre baseball.

Always Red
01-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Have you heard of the old saying....smoke and mirrors? All teams are crying poverty right now with the economy. Essentially what they are doing is driving down free agent prices to rock bottom and players are forced to take a contract. Really, how many teams are knocking down Adam Dunn's door to come play for them? How many teams are out there trying to acquire Junior's services? You don't think Scott Boras milks everything he can to get the best contract for his client? Same with major league teams. They will do everything they can to pay the least amount for a free agent with the exception of the New York Yankees and possibly the New York Mets. The outfield free agent market was set with the Pat Burrell's signing. Do you think Adam Dunn will get that much of a better deal?

Like I said what the Reds say in January is one thing. Come Opening Day and this is the lineup they are running with then I will join everyone else and say this team is set on another year of mediocre baseball.

Not every team is crying poverty:11 teams are raising payroll this year:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/jan/22/ringolsby-economy-impacting-payrolls/


The nation's financial problems are being felt in baseball.

There are only 11 teams - including the Rockies - projected to open the 2009 season with a bigger payroll than a year ago. There are four teams that figured to be about the same as last year and 15 teams planning to cut salary expenditures.

What's more, the cuts are coming from the teams that have spent the most.

Seven of the teams that were among the top nine payrolls on Opening Day last year are looking at lesser payrolls in 2009 - the No. 1 Yankees, No. 3 Tigers, No. 4 Red Sox, No. 5 White Sox, No. 6 Angels, No. 7 Dodgers and No. 9 Mariners. The Dodgers could fall as much as $30 million from last year's $118.6 million.

I think you're right, smoke and mirrors is what we get from Bob Castellini. Yesterday he pleaded poverty due to the economy and said he was done adding players and payroll for the 2009 year. Then today, he says attendance and sponsorship are good. Spin, smoke and mirrors, it's all the same to me. I have learned, only over the last 2 days, to discount what comes out of Castellini's mouth.

Dunn? Maybe he's waiting to see what Manny gets? Maybe we overvalued him? Maybe Ricciardi said aloud what many FO types actually think about Dunn? I think the fact that the Reds don't want Dunn back even at the apparent current discount is very telling of how this current FO really feels about him.

Junior? I can't see Junior playing baseball for the offers he is probably getting. If I were an owner, I'd rather go with young, hungry talent than older, expensive guys who can't be counted on to stay healthy. Some call that collusion, but I think it's just common sense.

There was no collusion when it came to Tex or CC, or even Lowe.

Anyway, Cast said it, both yesterday and today, and this is as good a place as any to come and talk about what's going on with the Reds. Sounds like you don't believe Cast is done, and I hope you're right. I am just commenting on what the man said.

Always Red
01-23-2009, 07:01 PM
http://baseballminutia.com/images/mr.gif

It only seems like eternity, woy. ;)

KronoRed
01-23-2009, 07:14 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Kronosb/rally.gif

Chip R
01-23-2009, 07:15 PM
I think you're right, smoke and mirrors is what we get from Bob Castellini. Yesterday he pleaded poverty due to the economy and said he was done adding players and payroll for the 2009 year. Then today, he says attendance and sponsorship are good. Spin, smoke and mirrors, it's all the same to me. I have learned, only over the last 2 days, to discount what comes out of Castellini's mouth.

Dunn? Maybe he's waiting to see what Manny gets? Maybe we overvalued him? Maybe Ricciardi said aloud what many FO types actually think about Dunn? I think the fact that the Reds don't want Dunn back even at the apparent current discount is very telling of how this current FO really feels about him.

Junior? I can't see Junior playing baseball for the offers he is probably getting. If I were an owner, I'd rather go with young, hungry talent than older, expensive guys who can't be counted on to stay healthy. Some call that collusion, but I think it's just common sense.

There was no collusion when it came to Tex or CC, or even Lowe.

Anyway, Cast said it, both yesterday and today, and this is as good a place as any to come and talk about what's going on with the Reds. Sounds like you don't believe Cast is done, and I hope you're right. I am just commenting on what the man said.


Big Mouth Bob's quotes might be Exhibit A if the MLBPA decides to file collusion charges against MLB.

backbencher
01-23-2009, 08:10 PM
Big Mouth Bob's quotes might be Exhibit A if the MLBPA decides to file collusion charges against MLB.

How so?

ochre
01-23-2009, 08:28 PM
How so?
Revenues are chugging along; free agent salaries (for players the Yankees aren't interested in/interested in keeping away from Boston) are plummeting.

RedsManRick
01-23-2009, 08:49 PM
Revenues are chugging along; free agent salaries (for players the Yankees aren't interested in/interested in keeping away from Boston) are plummeting.

But 2009 revenues aren't the sole determinant of the willingness to offer a player a long term deal.

I think the economic issue is valid, but not because of it's impact on revenue. It's the impact of uncertainty.

Long term economic uncertainty leads to fewer large commitments, leading to more FA on the market longer (as guys hold out for what they thing they deserve), leading a prolonged glut in supply, leading to individual FA having less leverage, further driving down prices and creating a negative feedback loop.

The demand for players is still there, but the supply is larger, particularly among corner OF and SP. Combine that with the economic uncertainty and you don't need any nefarious motives to explain what's going on. Just logic and the standard rules of the market.

Why buy something now when you don't need it for 3 months, the store isn't going to run out of it, and the price might drop between then and now?

The guys who are really in trouble are the ones like Junior, who don't possess a rare skill set and don't represent the possibility of a long term buy low opportunity.

backbencher
01-23-2009, 08:51 PM
Revenues are chugging along

That's not what he said. He talked about sponsorships numbers and season ticket renewals. Who knows what baseline he used for his comments, but by Opening Day there will be real numbers for both.

On top of that, the Reds' payroll outlays already are either flat or up.

backbencher
01-23-2009, 08:55 PM
But 2009 revenues aren't the sole determinant of the willingness to offer a player a long term deal.

I think the economic issue is valid, but not because of it's impact on revenue. It's the impact of uncertainty.

Long term economic uncertainty leads to fewer large commitments, leading to more FA on the market longer (as guys hold out for what they thing they deserve), leading a prolonged glut in supply, leading to individual FA having less leverage, further driving down prices and creating a negative feedback loop.

The demand for players is still there, but the supply is larger, particularly among corner OF and SP. Combine that with the economic uncertainty and you don't need any nefarious motives to explain what's going on. Just logic and the standard rules of the market.

Why buy something now when you don't need it for 3 months, the store isn't going to run out of it, and the price might drop between then and now?

The guys who are really in trouble are the ones like Junior, who don't possess a rare skill set and don't represent the possibility of a long term buy low opportunity.

Very well said.

Another part of the loop is the likely inability for teams to unload salary in season if performance or revenues don't match projections.

corkedbat
01-23-2009, 09:25 PM
From C-Trent's Blog:

Bob Castellini was on Bill Cunningham's show on 700 WLW this afternoon and this is what he had to say:

Cunningham: There's a story here in the Enquirer that says, "Win Now, Goes By Wayside" -- is that true?

Castellini: No. (chuckles)

Cunningham: That's what the headline says in the Enquirer

Castellini: I guess it does say that, but if you read the article it doesn't say we're not going to win this year. It's minimized. It maybe says we haven't given up on this year. And we certainly haven't given up on this year. On the other hand, we're ecstatic about what we’re going to put on the field this year.

Cunningham: Do you think you've done enough with additions like Willy Taveras and Ramon Hernandez and resigned Jerry Hairston, Weathers and Lincoln, is that upgrading? What happened to the leftfielder with all the power you were going to get?

Castellini: Well, there's still possibly a leftfielder, a right-handed batter out there. It's getting late. We tried to get that spot filled. In the meantime, when we signed Willy to play center field and we've got Jerry to play left field with Chris Dickerson and (Norris) Hopper if Alex comes back at shortstop. But we feel we've really sured up our center with our catcher and Taveras and whoever plays shortstop, whether it's Hairston or Alex -- that's our one big question mark.

Cunningham: One thing I like about you, which I don't like about Mike Brown, when you had a chance to go get a baseball announcer, you go get Thom Brennaman. When you had a chance to go get a manager, you got Dusty Baker. When you had a chance to go get a G.M., you got Walt Jocketty. In other words, you change. You have three G.M.s, three field managers -- I don't see that as change, as much as I see Bob Castelllini working hard and you get the right people in place. I'm thinking if you fail again this year, will we have four general managers and four field managers? Because failing is winning and losing and Bob Castellini's not had one winning season in three years.

Castellini: You're absolutely right. But we’ve built an organization with these people you talk about and they're here for a long, long time. We're not looking to change. We feel very, very confident for this year. The second part of that article, I probably asked for myself. I was funning with John (Fay) and I said, you know when I told you we're going to win right away and you took it out of context, what I really meant was the interpretation was wrong and maybe that's my fault too.

Cunningham: Seg-man Dennison told me you said, "We've come to a point where we're just not going to lose anymore."

Castellini: Right, we were losing with our organization. We didn't have a winning attitude, we didn't have a winning organization. We changed all that. We're on the right track. What really irritates me is people think we're writing off this year. We have an excellent team. We have a contender. Barring injuries, we're going to be in there at the end. You can quote me on that, at the end of the year if we're not in there at the end, you can play it back forever. But I really feel that way and our organization feels that way.

Cunningham: Last year the Reds finished 23-and-a-half games out of first and you had Griffey and Dunn as your marquee players. Every organization needs a star, like here, I'm a star. You need a star. Griffey and Dunn, those guys are now done. Is Dunn possibly coming back to play left field?

Castellini: I wouldn’t say that.

Cunningham: How about Griffey?

Castellini: I wouldn't say that, but we've got a budding star in Joey Votto, I think he's going to break into stardom this year. We've got Jay Bruce and I think he's in the same category. And we’ve got the Gold Glover (Bandon Phillips) who is outstanding. And on top of that, we've got a starting rotation with four people and three very, very viable people to be the fifth starter and we've got the best bullpen in the division.

Cunningham: Are you having fun Bob Castellini?

Castellini: I'm having a lot of fun.

Cunningham: Are you sure?

Castellini: I'm just so pumped up about this team, I'm getting excited about it, Bill.

Cunningham: Are you sure?

Castellini: Yeah.

Cunningham: I'm not so sure. You took over in January 2006 and you said things like "we're going to win, we're going to win now. My wife Susie has a pillow that says, 'if Momma's not happy, nobody's happy.'" I don't think Bob Castellini is happy.

Castellini: I wouldn't say that at all. In fact, you're wrong. Articles like that, if I'm part of the problem, I apologize, but those kind of articles make the fans unhappy. In fact, the fans are pretty darn happy. The feedback we get from our fans for tickets and so forth, are very positive and the people that are cutting down on ticket purchases are still buying tickets and telling us it's the economy, it's not the direction of the Reds.

Cunningham: How many season ticket holders do you have?

Castellini: We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

Cunningham: Is it up or down from last year?

Castellini: We don't know, but it's not going to be that far off. And I'll tell you something else, Bill, our sponsorships are up.

Cunningham: Really?

Castellini: I'd say that the Reds are perceived to be going in the right direction. If the owner fouls up with an interview and sets them back, I'll have to get on the most publicized show in town and try to correct it and I appreciate you letting me come on and say a few things.

Cunningham: I have the upmost respect for you and Phil… You do everything first class except the team. You do everything first-class except for what's between the white lines.

Castellini: Maybe we'll have to get rid of the owner if it doesn't work out this year.

Cunningham: Do you see yourself selling if it doesn't work out?

Castellini: Absolutely not.

Cunningham: No?

Castellini: No.

Cunningham: You're going to stay with it for the next five-to-10 years no matter what?

Castellini: You betcha.

Cunningham: And you're going to win?

Castellini: You betcha.

Cunningham: You're going to win?

Castellini: Yes sir.

Cunningham: You're going to win this year?

Castellini: We're going to win this year.

Cunningham: You are?

Castellini: We're going to have a winning record this year, Bill. And we're going to be contenders and we might well be into it at the end of the season. I told everyone in Louisville that we hope to see them up at Great American Ball Park in October.

(Here they talk about RedsFest and the Caravan -- I didn’t type it up -- Castellini talks about the fans in Louisville where he was last night )

Cunningham: Bob, you’re a Cincinnatian from birth, like me, and been around your whole life and I'm thinking the Bengals have stunk for 20 years, UC Bearcat basketball is in the crapper, Xavier's good but a lot of people don't care, but we are Reds country and you haven’t had a winning season since you've owned the club, we've only had one the entire century and we're dying and starving for a winner and I think we have the right organization, all you need is a few better players. That's all you need. I can agree with you, why do you want to spend $100 million when you're going to lose $30 or $40 million a year, you can't do that, right?

Castellini: Right. But in all seriousness, Bill, we're high on this team that we’re putting on the field this year.

http://www.thereheis.com/nucleus3.22/media/gallery/20080623-snakeoil.jpg

Honest Bob

I'm not sure which would be scarier - If he's just gonna always say "Hey, we really believe we've got a contender" no matter what they're putting on the field and expect the fans to accept it or if he actuyally believes it. :scared:

BCubb2003
01-23-2009, 10:07 PM
I think he's just trying to temper his early fan-as-owner "the losing stops now" enthusiasm with the more realistic "boy this is harder than it looks." There's nothing evil about that.

OnBaseMachine
01-23-2009, 10:26 PM
Is Castellini hinting at Xavier Nady here? Fay thinks so.

Here's the rest of what he had to say (he didn't mention him by name -- that would be tampering -- but it sounds like the Reds still hold out hope on getting Xavier Nady):

Castellini: Well, there's still possibly a leftfielder, a right-handed batter out there. It's getting late. We tried to get that spot filled. In the meantime, when we signed Willy to play center field and we've got Jerry to play left field with Chris Dickerson and (Norris) Hopper if Alex comes back at shortstop. But we feel we've really sured up our center with our catcher and Taveras and whoever plays shortstop, whether it's Hairston or Alex -- that's our one big question mark.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a517d3557-7aea-42ee-97b0-ba6d2fbfdf99&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

membengal
01-23-2009, 10:36 PM
I'll say this, perhaps the negative reactions from the press to Cast's musings may cause him to make a move he wasn't planning on making before he opened his yap.

marcshoe
01-23-2009, 10:40 PM
Is Castellini hinting at Xavier Nady here? Fay thinks so.

Here's the rest of what he had to say (he didn't mention him by name -- that would be tampering -- but it sounds like the Reds still hold out hope on getting Xavier Nady):

Castellini: Well, there's still possibly a leftfielder, a right-handed batter out there. It's getting late. We tried to get that spot filled. In the meantime, when we signed Willy to play center field and we've got Jerry to play left field with Chris Dickerson and (Norris) Hopper if Alex comes back at shortstop. But we feel we've really sured up our center with our catcher and Taveras and whoever plays shortstop, whether it's Hairston or Alex -- that's our one big question mark.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a517d3557-7aea-42ee-97b0-ba6d2fbfdf99&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com


I haven't figured out how credible he is, but about a half hour ago Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton (XM 175) said that the rumor that the Reds were still hoping to get Nady for Bailey wouldn't die, and then he said something about Castellini's comments at Redsfest :confused: today. I wonder if he was referring to what Fay wrote and expanding on it a bit.

Always Red
01-23-2009, 11:07 PM
Castinelli on WLW AGAIN tonight with Paul Daugherty to try to "clear some things up":

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a54a9a19d-bbb2-4ae8-bec9-505d92fbc3ae&plckCommentSortOrder=TimeStampAscending&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com



Castellini and Doc
Posted by TimCurtis at 1/23/2009 8:32 PM EST on Cincinnati.com

Bob Castellini later went on Doc's show on WLW tonight to again clear the air about today's Enquirer article and what he has said. Here's the transcript from the beginning of the interview:

Doc: What would you like to say, Bob Castellini, to Reds Nation right now?


BC: Well, I’d like to say we’ve got a fantastic team. We are very high on this team. If there is any question about us giving up on the Reds this season it’s out of the question. We’ve put together everything but what people say is a right-handed power hitter probably in left field. However, we’ve got a great defensive left-field combination, if Jerry (Hairston) doesn’t have to play shortstop he’s out there with Chris Dickerson and even Norris Hopper. So our defense is fantastic. Our speed in unparalleled. Our pitching staff is the best we’ve had in years. Probably, I don’t know, maybe 15 years … and it’s complete from four rotation people and we’ll have a fifth with some very good aspirants and we’ll have a bullpen that is certainly the best in our division and one of the best in the National League.


So we’re excited about the team. And I think the article today didn’t necessarily say we weren’t excited about it, but I kind of got the impression that maybe you could read that we weren’t excited about it. I don’t think John meant to put it that way, but that’s what I read. I think the first half of the article was about me and talking to John about taking me out of context, and I got myself into that problem with John. And, you know, it’s my fault. But …


Doc: You’re talking about John Fay from the Enquirer.


BC: Yeah. The fact our franchise gets rapped is why I’m here tonight. But I’ll explain the first part also.


When we first bought the team, Doc, as you recall, we said we were going to win. And that’s the way we feel. And every day we go to work that’s the way everybody in that building feels, or everybody who is part of the organization all over the country. And what we mean by winning is: not just games, winning in attitude, winning in organization. And we’ve put together what we feel is a very, very good organization. I think Walt has done a very good job in this last year. As far as attitude is concerned, we have an attitude of winning in our franchise, there’s no question about that. Certainly winning in the minor leagues. And winning in the major leagues. Was it going to be done overnight, no. Did I say it was going to be overnight, if I implied that I wasn’t that naïve to think that we could buy a bunch of free agents and ruin the franchise by winning one division title and riding off into the sunset, which happens to a lot of teams. However, I think the interpretation was that way, and so I was kind of funning with John, and I was half serious, but half funning with him, and I said, ‘Come on, we’re ready to win now, this is our year.’ I implied that but I didn’t get to finish it because we were walking down the sidewalk anyway. That was my point. The interpretation of me saying, ‘We’re going to win now,’ was really probably a little too overdone not just by any one particular person but everybody in the sports media based in Reds country. I was trying to explain that a little bit and say you know, ‘This is our year.’


Doc: Just to put to rest the notion that we in the media took you out of context, when you say when you bring Walt in, we’re not going to lose anymore, we take that literally.


BC: No, but I used the wrong words, Paul. It was not out of context. That was my fault. I said the interpretation was probably a little different than my interpretation but I used the wrong terminology, no question.



Winning doesn't necessarily mean winning games, you see.

Oh, and he was "half-funning" with Fay.

You couldn't make this stuff up any better than this. :rolleyes:

4256 Hits
01-23-2009, 11:15 PM
Castellini: We're going to have a winning record this year, Bill. And we're going to be contenders and we might well be into it at the end of the season. I told everyone in Louisville that we hope to see them up at Great American Ball Park in October.

That's like saying I am shoting for a C+ in math this year and it may even be B-.

This team just has no plan at all.

Chip R
01-23-2009, 11:15 PM
How so?


In his words, he said sponsorships are the same, season tickets aren't down plus they pared some payroll in Jr. and Dunn. So the players association may wonder why an owner who has vowed to "win now" isn't spending a little of his money for someone like an Abreu or Dunn or Burrell when they have a need for someone like that. I'm not saying that in itself means the owners are colluding but it might be a piece of the puzzle that could eventually cost the owners more money than they are saving.

dsmith421
01-23-2009, 11:16 PM
I cannot remember the last time a person destroyed their credibility this quickly and decisively. At least Blagojevich spread his insanity out over a few weeks.

Redhook
01-23-2009, 11:18 PM
First of all, I'd like to commend Bob for standing up for himself and the organization. I like the fact that he doesn't hide like Mike Brown.

Second, I wish Bob would walk the talk more. He has high aspirations and goals but just doesn't know how to complete the deal.

Third, Bob is absolutely out of his mind if he thinks this team is "fantastic". You've got to be kidding me. Decent? Maybe. Competitive? Maybe. Speedy? Yes. Scrappy? Probably. Fantastic? :lol:

Krusty
01-23-2009, 11:26 PM
Ownership will say anything to sell season tickets.

SteelSD
01-23-2009, 11:28 PM
Castellini: When we first bought the team, Doc, as you recall, we said we were going to win. And that’s the way we feel. And every day we go to work that’s the way everybody in that building feels, or everybody who is part of the organization all over the country. And what we mean by winning is: not just games, winning in attitude, winning in organization. And we’ve put together what we feel is a very, very good organization. I think Walt has done a very good job in this last year. As far as attitude is concerned, we have an attitude of winning in our franchise, there’s no question about that. Certainly winning in the minor leagues. And winning in the major leagues. Was it going to be done overnight, no. Did I say it was going to be overnight, if I implied that I wasn’t that naïve to think that we could buy a bunch of free agents and ruin the franchise by winning one division title and riding off into the sunset, which happens to a lot of teams. However, I think the interpretation was that way, and so I was kind of funning with John, and I was half serious, but half funning with him, and I said, ‘Come on, we’re ready to win now, this is our year.’ I implied that but I didn’t get to finish it because we were walking down the sidewalk anyway. That was my point. The interpretation of me saying, ‘We’re going to win now,’ was really probably a little too overdone not just by any one particular person but everybody in the sports media based in Reds country. I was trying to explain that a little bit and say you know, ‘This is our year.’

That's the biggest bunch of gobbledygook I've ever read.

BCubb2003
01-23-2009, 11:31 PM
I feel for the guy. Marge was toxic, and Lindner was a caretaker, and we loved that Castellini cared. I think most of us in that situation could probably articulate more of a plan for the team than we've heard so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if any one of us owners would be backpedaling after a couple of years, saying, "well we needed a strong defense behind our young pitchers, but strengthening the defense up the middle really wrecked our offense, and we were outbid for Xavier Nady, but we think the new manager Barry Larkin can bring a winning tradition back to the organization ..."

Krusty
01-23-2009, 11:34 PM
Bob needs to just shut up. That is why you pay Rob Butcher.

WVRedsFan
01-24-2009, 02:11 AM
Here's optimism...say Votto breaks out to 30 HR and 100 RBI's. Then Phillips has a .300/25HR/90 RBI year. Gonzo comes back with a 20/75 year. Encarnacion improves, hits .280/30/90. Willy has a .340 OBP and steals 50 bases. Bruce goes .280/30/100. The new catcher is in at .270/15/65. Harang comes back strong, Arroyo continues his late 2008 run, Volquez and Cueto pitch as well as their potential, and Owings is a better 5th starter than Belisle and Fogg from last year. What do you think might happen?

It's all a crap shoot and before I proclaim BCast full of that, I'll wait and see, though I'm not too fond of being optimistic, especially as mid season comes to pass.

WMR
01-24-2009, 02:44 AM
"THE FANS ARE HAPPY"

?????????????????

:lol:

WMR
01-24-2009, 02:49 AM
Wow Bob C. is really a joke. He's making himself sound worse and worse. He should just shut up.

700 WLW is going to have a field day with these sound bytes this summer.

red-in-la
01-24-2009, 03:00 AM
That's like saying I am shoting for a C+ in math this year and it may even be B-.

This team just has no plan at all.

What are you shooting for in English? :D :D :D :D

red-in-la
01-24-2009, 03:12 AM
That's like saying I am shoting for a C+ in math this year and it may even be B-.

This team just has no plan at all.

But seriously......I think you came up with the perfect simile.

I think we would all like to see them shoot for a C+ and would love a B-.

I would love to see them 6 to 10 games over .500 in late August and playing in some meaningful games in September. If they ended up 6 games over in 3rd place and missed the playoffs, I would be satisfied thinking that maybe they were building a winner.

That would make 2009 a C+ as far as I was concerned.

If they reached a B- and missed the Wild Card on the last weekend of the year, that would also be not only satisfying but a little exciting.

In any case, an 84-78 record would hardly be pessimistic.....

Caveat Emperor
01-24-2009, 03:41 AM
I feel for the guy. Marge was toxic, and Lindner was a caretaker, and we loved that Castellini cared. I think most of us in that situation could probably articulate more of a plan for the team than we've heard so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if any one of us owners would be backpedaling after a couple of years, saying, "well we needed a strong defense behind our young pitchers, but strengthening the defense up the middle really wrecked our offense, and we were outbid for Xavier Nady, but we think the new manager Barry Larkin can bring a winning tradition back to the organization ..."

My heart bleeds for the multimillionaire owner who cries various types of poormouth when the fans have the gall to ask why the team isn't going out there and getting better.

That's why fans are upset -- not because the team stinks, but because the team stinks despite the fact that the means for fixing it are sitting out on the free agent market literally begging to be signed.

Either you have the money to run and field a competitive major league baseball team or you do not. If Bob does not, I submit its time for him to return to selling fruit and let someone who wants to run a baseball team come in and handle things. Or, at the very least, admit that you're running a two-bit organization that will need a combination of luck and trade skill to succeed.

Either way, stop peeing on my leg and telling me its raining.

Ron Madden
01-24-2009, 05:38 AM
Sadly, my friends (many of whom are casual Reds fans), are happy only because Adam Dunn is gone. Marty did a very effective job of blaming the Reds woes on one guy. The guy who just happened to be their best player.

This used to be a great baseball town, with intelligent baseball fans. No longer.

Cincinnati Reds Fans used to be thought of as intelligent baseball fans. I agree with you, that is no longer the case.

I caught some heat for a post I made here three or four years ago, where I expressed my opinion on the dumbing down of Reds Fans. I still hold that opinion. Reds Fans tend to believe everything they read from Beat Writers or hear from PBP Announcers. All the blame can't be layed at Martys feet but he's had plenty to do with the dumbing down of Reds Country.

Ownership lost respect for the fanbase long ago. Marge, Carl and now Bob think they can tell us whatever we want to hear and get away with it.

GAC
01-24-2009, 06:25 AM
I'm at an advantage over the rest of you.

I was able to read between the lies.

http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/corbis/DGT064/cross-eyed-man-~-CHA076.jpg

Raisor
01-24-2009, 08:13 AM
That transcript read like something the Ultimate Warrior might write.

Dude might be a bit crazy.

Ltlabner
01-24-2009, 09:36 AM
We've got Jerry to play left field with Chris Dickerson and (Norris) Hopper if Alex comes back at shortstop.

Ugh. Hairston/Dickerson in Left Field. This team really has lost the plot.


I'll say this, perhaps the negative reactions from the press to Cast's musings may cause him to make a move he wasn't planning on making before he opened his yap.

Oh joy. More rash, knee-jerk edicts from Mr. Crazy. That can't possibly help the team.

Seriously Bob. Just keep your mouth shut. You punted 2009, your team stinks and the fan base doesn't care about your product. You know it and we know it. Let's just keep going through the motions and pretend that all is well.

MikeS21
01-24-2009, 10:06 AM
I have another take on this whole subject. What worries me more than anything is that I strongly suspect that Castellini and the FO honestly believe everything he went on the radio and said.

They REALLY do believe Tavares is the CF fix. They REALLY do believe that Hairston's inflated 2008 numbers weren't just the results of a career year and that Hairston won't sink back to his career norms this year. They REALLY do believe that Alex Gonzalez will come back healthy and put up huge numbers this year.

We have an organization who is living in "La-La Land."

lollipopcurve
01-24-2009, 10:22 AM
the means for fixing it are sitting out on the free agent market literally begging to be signed.
Way overstated.
If Abreu were out there begging for a deal he'd be a Red now.
They talked to Burrell, too.
And Dunn ain't happening.
Lots of teams could use some of the big hitters out there. But the big hitters are still sitting. There's no begging going on -- it's called negotiating.

flyer85
01-24-2009, 10:27 AM
every time Bob opens his mouth I become less impressed.

Falls City Beer
01-24-2009, 10:28 AM
That's the biggest bunch of gobbledygook I've ever read.

Do you guys remember the Gobbledygooker from a Survivor Series event about 20 years ago?

Bob C. is the Goobledygooker.

flyer85
01-24-2009, 10:30 AM
They REALLY do believe Tavares is the CF fix.Willy is the da bomb

nate
01-24-2009, 10:32 AM
Do you guys remember the Gobbledygooker from a Survivor Series event about 20 years ago?

Bob C. is the Goobledygooker.

I sprained my tongue trying to say that.

Raisor
01-24-2009, 10:32 AM
Do you guys remember the Gobbledygooker from a Survivor Series event about 20 years ago?

Bob C. is the Goobledygooker.

Wait, Cast is Hector Guerrero?

Awe.Some.

Falls City Beer
01-24-2009, 10:33 AM
Wait, Cast is Hector Guerrero?

Awe.Some.

Bob C. hatches to resounding boos.

Raisor
01-24-2009, 10:35 AM
What I like the best is that he's gone on two different shows to say that he really didn't mean "the losing stops now" only to say "I didn't mean to say that the losing stops now, but we are going to contend in 09 and we are going to have a winning record, but the losing stops now thing was taken out of context except it wasn't out of context and I was half fooling but I wasn't really half fooling because we are going to contend."

huh?

redsmetz
01-24-2009, 10:49 AM
But seriously......I think you came up with the perfect simile.

I think we would all like to see them shoot for a C+ and would love a B-.

I would love to see them 6 to 10 games over .500 in late August and playing in some meaningful games in September. If they ended up 6 games over in 3rd place and missed the playoffs, I would be satisfied thinking that maybe they were building a winner.

That would make 2009 a C+ as far as I was concerned.

If they reached a B- and missed the Wild Card on the last weekend of the year, that would also be not only satisfying but a little exciting.

In any case, an 84-78 record would hardly be pessimistic.....

I've hesitated to jump into these frays about the club this year. While I thought as recently as a week ago that the payroll budget had made it through the financial throes unscathed, I have to admit now, I'm not surprised by it. Castellini's having to do a heckuva tap dance to try to encourage fans to come to the ballpark, whether individually or as season ticket holders. I do know one company, which is struggling, who "downsized" their seats from the 4192 Club to regular seats last season. I'm guessing they'll just get tickets this year as customers want them, although another rep I talked to said they're doing very little of that this year.

That said, since the budget seems to have been set, they have to put a club on the field. There's little question that Taveras is a stop gap until we see how our minor leaguers do or a better option comes by. Many have noted that the contract is not onerous, so if Stubbs develops quicker or we pick up someone else, he can be on the bench or moved. Same for the left field situation. I've suggested all along that SS was going to require seeing what develops with Gonzalez. The money's invested and if he's ready, then he's here. It would have been senseless to have a pricier option this season and then find out Gonzalez is able to go, IMO.

Is the club perfect? Far from it. Can it contend? Probably not, but a possibility is there. Clearly we're going to have to rely on our pitchers to be as good as we think they can. We have little room for regression or not recovering from a down year. If we have any hope, it will have to be from there.

As for long term (which is language Castellini should have been using all along, and consistently), we're adding young talent from Latin America, have continued to draft reasonably well (not perfect, of course). We've pulled a good bit out of the minor leagues, development needs to continue, particularly in the area of pitching.

I'm aching for some Spring Training and ready for the season. Now that a chill has returned to the air here in Cincy, thinking of a warm day in the June sunshine and the beautiful grass and players scampering about. Oh, the joy! And maybe we'll win a game or two.

BTW, to prep, I've gotten the Wire To Wire video from the library to watch this week. Play ball!

RedLegSuperStar
01-24-2009, 10:51 AM
Can we contend honestly??

With this rotation? Yes
With this bullpen? Yes.. within the division
With this defense? Doubtful
With this line-up? I just can't see it.. Beyond Votto you have question marks..

4256 Hits
01-24-2009, 11:13 AM
What are you shooting for in English? :D :D :D :D

Right now a D- would be an improvement. :thumbup:

cincrazy
01-24-2009, 11:23 AM
It's a Catch 22, really. Reds fans constantly whine about how we can't contend, while a team like St. Louis contends annually, yet St. Louis fans fill that park year after year, while Reds fans can barely get 20,000 in the park some nights, if that. However, nobody wants to pay money to watch a crappy baseball team, especially in today's economy, but it's difficult for the Reds to get more money for payroll to improve the team when the fans aren't showing up.

Spinning our wheels, a decade and running.

Falls City Beer
01-24-2009, 11:25 AM
It's a Catch 22, really. Reds fans constantly whine about how we can't contend, while a team like St. Louis contends annually, yet St. Louis fans fill that park year after year, while Reds fans can barely get 20,000 in the park some nights, if that. However, nobody wants to pay money to watch a crappy baseball team, especially in today's economy, but it's difficult for the Reds to get more money for payroll to improve the team when the fans aren't showing up.

Spinning our wheels, a decade and running.

The team's committing to fielding a winner would bring fans.

westofyou
01-24-2009, 11:27 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012301740.html

Natives restless in more than one place.


I'm not quite mad as hell. And I can probably take it a little longer.

However, my fuse is getting short when I think about the Lerners' poor stewardship of the Nationals. In a week or two, if the Nats have refused to spend appropriately on free agents to improve an abomination of a ballclub, while accepting the largesse of a city that paid $693 million to build them a ballpark, then I may go Howard Beale nutty on somebody. I've already canceled the Nationals season tickets that I waited 37 years to buy.

The Lerners, who haven't made a serious offer to any major free agent since they failed to get Mark Teixeira last month, need to show that they deserve to be entrusted with the Nationals.

Does the family, led by billionaire developer Ted Lerner, understand the game as much as it loves it?

Do the Lerners appreciate the precarious state of their relations not only with fans, but with their own executives?

Do they have any idea, after a lifetime of erecting buildings, of how to build a team? Team president Stan Kasten does. But do they? By all indications, his advice is heard but not heeded.

And, most important, are they totally tone deaf to the indignation of a town that, after 33 empty years, is now given an inept team and an owner who won't spend, even in a dream market for free agents, despite the fact that, by 2010, he may field the lowest payroll team in all of baseball?

The Lerners have not spent appreciably to improve their major league roster in nearly three years as owners. They couldn't sign their first-round draft pick, ninth overall, last summer. International activity is nearly nil.

Meanwhile, their farm system, which moved up to No. 9 in baseball a year ago, has now flopped back into the bottom third, according to Baseball America, the industry standard. First-round picks Ross Detwiler, Chris Marrero and Colton Willems have regressed. A good plan has to operate at all levels at all times, including the big leagues.

In baseball's fifth year back in Washington, it is time for a city that has waited so long and paid so much to be offered a product at Nationals Park that is worth the $29-a-ticket average cost, plus pricey food and parking.

During a time of recession, baseball remains the best value in professional sports. Except in Washington.

Tommyjohn25
01-24-2009, 11:39 AM
It's a Catch 22, really. Reds fans constantly whine about how we can't contend, while a team like St. Louis contends annually, yet St. Louis fans fill that park year after year, while Reds fans can barely get 20,000 in the park some nights, if that. However, nobody wants to pay money to watch a crappy baseball team, especially in today's economy, but it's difficult for the Reds to get more money for payroll to improve the team when the fans aren't showing up.

Spinning our wheels, a decade and running.

That really has alot to do with it, and that post strikes a personal nerve with me as well. Throughout my entire life (29 years old), I made the trip down to the park countless times (ling in KY while younger, Dayton later on). The years 2002, '03, '04 etc. the trips slowly started to dwindle over time, wholly due to the product on the field. I still watch/DVR every game, if I'm in the car I'm listening to WLW every pitch, I still sweat, moan, cheer, and cuss right along with the action...I just feel less compelled as time goes on, and the losses pile up, to pay through the rear end to do so. I don't care about new ballparks, free hot dogs, party decks, or smokestacks....I care about one thing, the pennant. Show the willingness and knowhow to earn one of those, I'll show my willingness to spend my hard earned money to rotate those turnstiles at the gate. Right now? I've been falling for it long enough. I can watch it on TV for the monthly price of cable.

Tommyjohn25
01-24-2009, 11:45 AM
The team's committing to fielding a winner would bring fans.

Bingo. You pretty much effectively said what I said, in about 150 less words. :D

Kc61
01-24-2009, 12:10 PM
I don't focus too much on what owners say because often they are very big picture and not mired in the details of baseball.

But I'd like to hear Jocketty go on the air for a somewhat detailed discussion of the team's direction.

Hopefully, he would say that the team didn't want to spend a load of money on the current free agent/trade crop because they don't see the right fit out there for the team. That right now they are focused on mining for and developing prospects. That very soon they expect to have Alonso and a few others in the majors and expect at that point to be a high level team. They will add major players from the outside when difference making players are available and fit the needs -- and will do so reasonably soon.

I've been pretty supportive of the strategy, but the Reds are not conveying this message to the public.

The other thing that should be addressed is a very simple financial point concerning 2009. We all expected another $7 or $8 million of payroll for 2009. We all expected a major hitting addition, probably on a short-term deal. You can get a hitter for that amount. Why didn't it happen?

Caveat Emperor
01-24-2009, 12:13 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012301740.html

Natives restless in more than one place.

The Washington situation is completely inexcusable. They have a top-10 media market, a gorgeous new park and one of the wealthiest areas in the country to draw fans and money from, yet they continue to operate like they're the Montreal Expos. They should have been hot after every major free agent this offseason.


ant to spend a load of money on the current free agent/trade crop because they don't see the right fit out there for the team. That right now they are focused on mining for and developing prospects. That very soon they expect to have Alonso and a few others in the majors and expect at that point to be a high level team. They will add major players from the outside when difference making players are available and fit the needs -- and will do so pretty soon.

As M2 (I believe, forgive me if I'm crediting the wrong person here) pointed out, though -- building through the minors is a strategy that requires more than just showing up for the draft and selecting a player every time your turn comes up. It requires consistently flipping major league talent for multiple productive minor leaguers and collecting a large pool of talent that is all on roughly the same timetable for reaching their prime, pre-arb years in the big leagues.

The Reds aren't doing that. At all. They're sitting back and waiting for a miracle to happen. That isn't a strategy.

Kc61
01-24-2009, 12:22 PM
As M2 (I believe, forgive me if I'm crediting the wrong person here) pointed out, though -- building through the minors is a strategy that requires more than just showing up for the draft and selecting a player every time your turn comes up. It requires consistently flipping major league talent for multiple productive minor leaguers and collecting a large pool of talent that is all on roughly the same timetable for reaching their prime, pre-arb years in the big leagues.

The Reds aren't doing that. At all. They're sitting back and waiting for a miracle to happen. That isn't a strategy.

I don't think that is a fair assessment. The only top veterans they have to flip is their starting pitching and closer and that would put the team in the dumpster for 2009. I can understand why they aren't ready to do that.

The Reds last year made major international signings of prospects, competing with large market teams. They signed Alonso -- a tough draft sign -- to a major league contract. they aren't just sitting back.

Keep in mind that the flipping veterans for kids concept is very hard to do at this time. Teams are holding on to top young kids because they are cheap and can be productive. And Harang isn't exactly at his peak value.

No, it's wrong to say the Reds don't have a plan. They are not conveying it to the fans very effectively, I'd say.

westofyou
01-24-2009, 12:28 PM
The Washington situation is completely inexcusable. They have a top-10 media market, a gorgeous new park and one of the wealthiest areas in the country to draw fans and money from,Yet they are on their 4th franchise in MLB history. Maybe the market isn't there in reality.

Caveat Emperor
01-24-2009, 12:49 PM
I don't think that is a fair assessment. The only top veterans they have to flip is their starting pitching and closer and that would put the team in the dumpster for 2009. I can understand why they aren't ready to do that.

The Marlins traded Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis and Brad Penny.

The Athletics traded Mark Mulder, Tim Hudson, Rich Harden, Danny Haren and Joe Blanton.

The Fish & the As are the two model franchises for any team that wants to "build from within" -- and they both have shown willingness time and time again to deal quality pitching to help stock the farm system.

If the Reds are really going to throw their hands up and admit they can't win in the economy, their best bet would be to deal Harang & Arroyo for as many top-flight prospects as they can get and eat contract to get Cordero out the door for as many prospects as they can get. Bring up kids from AAA to replace them, even if they're not nearly as talented. You're writing this season off anyway -- what benefit does having Harang or Arroyo around give the team if they aren't trying to win?

It's all about the churn -- bring in lots of high-upside kids and hope that a bunch of them reach the big show at around the same time to open a window for your ballclub.


The Reds last year made major international signings of prospects, competing with large market teams. They signed Alonso -- a tough draft sign -- to a major league contract. they aren't just sitting back.

Every other team is out scouring the Latin and Asian markets. The Reds aren't the only team that signed major latin talent this past offseason.

I'm happy the Reds signed Alonso, but the other teams all made draft picks too. Many of those draft picks are as highly regarded (or more highly regarded) than Yonder Alonso. You don't get ahead if you do what everyone else is doing and then lay back while they do more (sign Free Agents, etc.)


Keep in mind that the flipping veterans for kids concept is very hard to do at this time. Teams are holding on to top young kids because they are cheap and can be productive.

Yet other teams manage to do it constantly (including the aforementioned As and Marlins) -- often by avoiding targeting the "crown jewel" prospects and focusing on guys with solid upsides who can provide cheap, above replacement-level production at key positions for years and free up the payroll dollars for harder-to-fill spots.


No, it's wrong to say the Reds don't have a plan. They are not conveying it to the fans very effectively, I'd say.

The Reds have a plan -- it's bury their heads in the sand and wait to see if the cavalry ever arrives.

Unassisted
01-24-2009, 01:58 PM
Bob needs to just shut up. That is why you pay Rob Butcher.You are so right here.

Bob needs to sit down with Butcher or some other wordsmith on the payroll, articulate what he's trying to convey, and let his PR expert craft the words to spin it. Without that kind of expert help, Bob is a bull in a china shop when he gets near a microphone.

cincrazy
01-24-2009, 02:40 PM
The team's committing to fielding a winner would bring fans.

I agree with that completely. However, it's hard for the team to do that when they're barely getting any revenue from ticket sales. If the Reds sold out every game, who knows how much of an impact that would have? A big one, I'm sure. But people aren't going to come out in droves to see a losing product.

MikeS21
01-24-2009, 03:27 PM
The Marlins traded Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis and Brad Penny.

The Athletics traded Mark Mulder, Tim Hudson, Rich Harden, Danny Haren and Joe Blanton.

The Fish & the As are the two model franchises for any team that wants to "build from within" -- and they both have shown willingness time and time again to deal quality pitching to help stock the farm system.

If the Reds are really going to throw their hands up and admit they can't win in the economy, their best bet would be to deal Harang & Arroyo for as many top-flight prospects as they can get and eat contract to get Cordero out the door for as many prospects as they can get. Bring up kids from AAA to replace them, even if they're not nearly as talented. You're writing this season off anyway -- what benefit does having Harang or Arroyo around give the team if they aren't trying to win?
But you are assuming the Reds would get high market value for Harang/Arroyo/Cordero. For some reason, the Reds are unable to get good value from established talent. As praised as Adam Dunn was/is on this forum, you would think the Reds could have landed much higher talent in return than they did.

This tells us one of two things: 1) Other GM's do not think as highly of our talent as we fans do, or 2) the FO is not getting as good return as they could/should. I tend to think the truth lies somewhere between the two.

remdog
01-24-2009, 03:57 PM
But you are assuming the Reds would get high market value for Harang/Arroyo/Cordero. For some reason, the Reds are unable to get good value from established talent. As praised as Adam Dunn was/is on this forum, you would think the Reds could have landed much higher talent in return than they did.

This tells us one of two things: 1) Other GM's do not think as highly of our talent as we fans do, or 2) the FO is not getting as good return as they could/should. I tend to think the truth lies somewhere between the two.

Another good post Mike. :clap:

I think that, just like the economy over the last 12-18 months, we're seeing a big swing in the way of doing business. Revenue, except for some big market teams, is going to drop over the next season or two. So a lot of teams are tightening their belt and saying, "why trade a good prospect for a contract that carries a lot dollars?" It's a reasonable question and some (even many) teams are coming to the conclusion that they are better off not taking on the responsibility of the contract.

Rem

Kc61
01-24-2009, 05:25 PM
The Marlins traded Josh Beckett, Dontrelle Willis and Brad Penny.

The Athletics traded Mark Mulder, Tim Hudson, Rich Harden, Danny Haren and Joe Blanton.

The Fish & the As are the two model franchises for any team that wants to "build from within" -- and they both have shown willingness time and time again to deal quality pitching to help stock the farm system.


It's all about the churn -- bring in lots of high-upside kids and hope that a bunch of them reach the big show at around the same time to open a window for your ballclub.


Every other team is out scouring the Latin and Asian markets. The Reds aren't the only team that signed major latin talent this past offseason.

I'm happy the Reds signed Alonso, but the other teams all made draft picks too. Many of those draft picks are as highly regarded (or more highly regarded) than Yonder Alonso. You don't get ahead if you do what everyone else is doing and then lay back while they do more (sign Free Agents, etc.)


The Reds have a plan -- it's bury their heads in the sand and wait to see if the cavalry ever arrives.

Most of the Fish and A's' "flipping" of players came when the team faced losing them because of upcoming free agent salary demands. The Fish didn't trade Josh Beckett until they were facing paying him. They held him through a Worlds championship and probably would have kept him longer if they could have afforded him. Same for the A's with Hudson and Mulder. These teams don't just endlessly flip players to get younger, they do so when necessary.

Now, the Reds could have yielded more for Dunn -- they waited too long to make a huge trade for him -- but let's not assume that he was as marketable as a Tim Hudson or a Josh Beckett. And had they traded him for prospects, the cries around here would have woken up our computers even after we had logged off.

Yet, the Reds did fabulously well in getting Hamilton and then "churning" him into Volquez. They haven't been asleep at the switch.

As for other teams scouting Latin American markets, the Reds were extremely successful getting premium prospects Juan Duran, Yorman Rodriguez, and a pitcher whose name I forget. Yes, other teams signed international players. I didn't say the Reds are alone in baseball. But they made major signings in this area and spent quite a bit for a smaller market team.

Every move hasn't been perfect and the team isn't explaining this plan well to the public. And it wouldn't have hurt to add a one-year or two-year stop gap hitter this off-season.

But by 2010 or 2011 the major league Reds should be stocked with lots of good young players. The guys are there -- in the majors and high minors and some to be acquired still. It's frustrating to wait, but it's incorrect to say they just have their head in the sand.

*BaseClogger*
01-24-2009, 05:40 PM
But I'd like to hear Jocketty go on the air for a somewhat detailed discussion of the team's direction.

I agree. I've heard enough from Bob Crazellini...

Chip R
01-24-2009, 09:43 PM
Here are some of Hal McCoy's takes on what Bob has been saying over the last few days. I think he's as confused as the rest of us.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

cincrazy
01-25-2009, 12:02 AM
Here are some of Hal McCoy's takes on what Bob has been saying over the last few days. I think he's as confused as the rest of us.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

I thought Hal did a good job with that article. I agree with everything he said regarding Dickerson and Gomes, and he was also accurate of his assessment with the Adam Dunn situation.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is going to be a baaaaaadddddddddddd season in the Queen City.

Matter of fact, if Harang doesn't bounce back, and Volquez and Cueto regress (which is completely possible, although lets cross our fingers) we could be looking at a historically bad season down on the banks of the Ohio River.

SteelSD
01-25-2009, 01:24 AM
I agree with that completely. However, it's hard for the team to do that when they're barely getting any revenue from ticket sales. If the Reds sold out every game, who knows how much of an impact that would have? A big one, I'm sure. But people aren't going to come out in droves to see a losing product.

Reds fans aren't going to bust down the gate if the team puts a poor product on the field. Correct. But it's not a Catch-22. The Reds have to produce a team capable of going deep in the playoffs. Then they need to add to that team. If they can, then the revenue will come in order to add even more or at least maintain a viable contender.

But that's not what they're doing now. They need to construct the team first and only then will the revenue follow. The fans cannot be held responsible for a bad team not being able to turn itself into a good team.

cincrazy
01-25-2009, 01:38 AM
Reds fans aren't going to bust down the gate if the team puts a poor product on the field. Correct. But it's not a Catch-22. The Reds have to produce a team capable of going deep in the playoffs. Then they need to add to that team. If they can, then the revenue will come in order to add even more or at least maintain a viable contender.

But that's not what they're doing now. They need to construct the team first and only then will the revenue follow. The fans cannot be held responsible for a bad team not being able to turn itself into a good team.

I see what you're saying.

Fact of the matter is, I'm 23 years old, and my grandest memory as a Reds fan is winning the last game of the 1999 season to force a one game playoff that we ended up losing in resounding fashsion.

Now that's depressing.

remdog
01-25-2009, 01:56 AM
Here are some of Hal McCoy's takes on what Bob has been saying over the last few days. I think he's as confused as the rest of us.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/

That link didn't work for me. What did Hal say?

Rem

remdog
01-25-2009, 02:32 AM
They need to construct the team first and only then will the revenue follow. The fans cannot be held responsible for a bad team not being able to turn itself into a good team.

That's exactly correct. I was going to post the same thing but Steel either has faster fingers than I, lives in an earlier timezone or is not as sleep deprived from watching the Aussie Open. My guess is all three. :)

When Castellini bought the team the message was that they would do what it takes to put a quality product on the field and it was no longer a matter of 'breaking even' as was with Carl Lindner.

Well, the losing stops now has regressed to Willie Tavaras is out big off-season pick-up. Oh boy!

Bob needs to recognize that even casual fans aren't dumb and can recognize the difference between a donkey and a thoroughbred. This team, as currently constructed, is a donkey. The only hope right now is that the starting staff turns into Koufax, Gibson, Seaver and Ryan.

Rem

Ltlabner
01-25-2009, 07:54 AM
I agree with that completely. However, it's hard for the team to do that when they're barely getting any revenue from ticket sales. If the Reds sold out every game, who knows how much of an impact that would have? A big one, I'm sure. But people aren't going to come out in droves to see a losing product.

Golly, if people would just go buy those horrible Ford's and Chevy's the American Auto Manufacturers wouldn't need a bailout.

Provide a good product, the fans will come. You have to take the risk and spend the money to get to being a good team before the fans start walking through the gate.

Always Red
01-25-2009, 02:48 PM
When Castellini bought the team the message was that they would do what it takes to put a quality product on the field and it was no longer a matter of 'breaking even' as was with Carl Lindner.

Well, the losing stops now has regressed to Willie Tavaras is out big off-season pick-up. Oh boy!

Bob needs to recognize that even casual fans aren't dumb and can recognize the difference between a donkey and a thoroughbred. This team, as currently constructed, is a donkey. The only hope right now is that the starting staff turns into Koufax, Gibson, Seaver and Ryan.

Rem

Chick Ludwig, from the DDN weighs in:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/chickludwig/entries/2009/01/25/one_mans_opinion_on_the_reds_b.html


Cincinnati Reds owner/CEO Bob Castellini proclaims, “We have a contender” and that the team is “going to be there at the end.”

Castellini also said the Reds have reached their payroll ceiling by running out of money for 2009.

I believe that if the Reds don’t remain in contention, manager Dusty Baker should be fired and Castellini should sell the club.

I want what you want … a winner.

And I don’t want the slumping national economy to be used as an excuse.

See you on Opening Day.

marcshoe
01-25-2009, 08:29 PM
Big Mouth Bob's quotes might be Exhibit A if the MLBPA decides to file collusion charges against MLB.


I've been thinking about collusion today because of some comments I'm hearing. It's an interesting thought if the owners want a salary cap and are trying to build support for the fight (which would likely include a lengthy strike next CBA) it would take to get it.

I'm not sure I buy this idea, but it's an interesting thought.