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*BaseClogger*
01-24-2009, 05:54 PM
The debate in the Dunn thread about whether or not the Rays won in 2008 because of all of their high draft picks got me thinking--what is the best run organization in MLB? Which front offices are the best? Which are the worst?

WMR
01-24-2009, 06:16 PM
Best: Tampa Bay and Boston ... St. Louis as well

jojo
01-24-2009, 06:36 PM
Cleveland, Tampa, Yanks, BoSox, Oakland, Milwaukee (was at least but they've had a bit of brain drain), San Diego.

Seattle is showing real promise in the infancy of it's new leadership-I'm hopeful.

MartyFan
01-24-2009, 06:54 PM
Good question...I think the best run are Oakland, Milwaukee, Cleveland and ChiSox.

They may not win EVERYTHING a lot but they always have decent teams on the field with a mix of newbies and vets.

I don't consider the BoSox, Yankees, etc because they have a lot of money and while it is important not to spend that money foolishly, having the cash to buy that kind of talent covers a multitude of sins.

Tampa Bay is my second favorite team in baseball and while I think they have a plan, that plan is rooted in a decade of losses...delivering high draft picks out the wazoo...YES, THE WAZOO! So, I think we'll be better able to see what the FO is made of with this years draft and also how the team performs over the next couple of years.

cincrazy
01-24-2009, 08:00 PM
I'd put Minnesota on any list of best run organizations. I love what Ron Gardenhire and Co. have done there for quite some time on a limited budget.

blumj
01-24-2009, 08:41 PM
The Twins do a fantastic job of developing pitchers, and especially of developing them to throw strikes.

jojo
01-24-2009, 08:49 PM
Ya and Minnesota is a big middle finger in the air to Selig....

RANDY IN INDY
01-24-2009, 09:06 PM
I agree. Minnesota knows what they have to work with and do a great job. I wonder how moving from the Metrodome will affect that organization. Huge home field advantage there and they have made it work for them.

RedsManRick
01-24-2009, 09:12 PM
I don't know why you'd exclude the Red Sox just because they have money. It's about how well you do with what you have, whether you have a little or a lot. Since Epstein took over, they've averaged 94 wins a year, have made the playoffs twice and won two World Series. Yeah, they've had a lot to work with. But there are other teams that have had a lot to work with and a lot less success.

IslandRed
01-25-2009, 12:00 AM
Odd that we're talking about mostly AL teams. My theory is, because the Yankees are such a cash-spewing behemoth that is impossible to beat on their own terms, teams have to innovate -- or, if remaining old-school e.g. Minnesota, do it better -- to compete. Feigning contention is easier in the National League, so fewer teams have felt compelled to reinvent the way they do business.

cincrazy
01-25-2009, 12:05 AM
The D-backs should also be mentioned somewhere. Perhaps not near the top, but they've cranked out some impressive young talent here lately. The Rockies did a good job building up their organization for the run in 2007 but hit a roadblock last year. Lets see if they can rebound. And the Phillies, the defending world champs, also did a great job during Pat Gillick's tenure as GM. Lets see if Ruben Amaro can continue that.

fearofpopvol1
01-25-2009, 12:39 AM
Cincinnati. Easily.

vaticanplum
01-25-2009, 11:47 AM
Agreed with a lot of these and I don't think the Braves are in the doghouse yet. Just a couple years out from that playoff run and their farm system is loaded with pitching.

BuckeyeRedleg
01-25-2009, 01:26 PM
Boston.

Just look at their last few drafts. Amazing.

jojo
01-25-2009, 01:32 PM
Boston.

Just look at their last few drafts. Amazing.

They had like 12 homegrown guys make significant contributions to their roster last season.

RedsManRick
01-25-2009, 01:42 PM
The D-backs should also be mentioned somewhere. Perhaps not near the top, but they've cranked out some impressive young talent here lately. The Rockies did a good job building up their organization for the run in 2007 but hit a roadblock last year. Lets see if they can rebound. And the Phillies, the defending world champs, also did a great job during Pat Gillick's tenure as GM. Lets see if Ruben Amaro can continue that.

This is a very keen observation.

Jpup
01-25-2009, 02:02 PM
Texas is a club that's on the right track. I love what they are doing down there. Of course, many of the other mentioned too. Boston, Arizona, Minnesota, and Cleveland.

nate
01-25-2009, 02:18 PM
The Dodgers have cranked out a quite few good players recently: Martin, Kemp, Loney, Ethier, Hu, Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw and DeWitt. They've finished above .500 more often than not over the past ten years too with 3 playoff appearances in a volatile NL West.

Caveat Emperor
01-25-2009, 03:00 PM
One thing you have to love about Milwaukee is their willingness to go for it. Last year, with a good team in the hunt for a playoff spot, they traded for Sabathia -- certainly knowing he was a half-season rental. He dominated down the stretch and powered the team into the playoffs.

You gotta respect a team that goes all out to make things happen. It's a stark contrast to the inaction that rules the day in this town.

Emin3mShady07
01-25-2009, 04:16 PM
Besides the obvious choices of Boston, Minnesota, Oakland, the Yankees (the way they do business is questionable but their success is undeniable) and possibly Cleveland, I think a case could be made for the Marlins. The Marlins don't boast a year to year W/L record that these other clubs do, but they are the ultimate small market franchise, build a monster 1 year and go for it all and then tear down the payroll until enough talent can be aquired to do it again. Expecially sense their payrolls are ridiculously low on a year to year basis.

remdog
01-25-2009, 04:28 PM
I nominate the Angels.

An owner that cares and puts up the money if he's sold on the player caring. Relates well with/to the fans and makes the Big A a great place to come and watch a game.

A terriffic manager, solid staff and they produce some excelent players from their farm system.

They have reached a point were their fans expect them to not only contend for their division but win it and they usually meet those expectations.

That's something 'The Cowboy', as great a guy as he was couldn't get done but Artie can and did.

Rem

jojo
01-25-2009, 04:34 PM
Maybe this should've been a poll question.

*BaseClogger*
01-25-2009, 04:43 PM
Maybe this should've been a poll question.

I thought about it, but their would have been 30 options...

Caveat Emperor
01-25-2009, 04:44 PM
Maybe this should've been a poll question.

I took the names that have been mentioned thus far and added a poll.

Vote away. ;)

Jpup
01-25-2009, 05:17 PM
I took the names that have been mentioned thus far and added a poll.

Vote away. ;)

You forgot Texas.:)

blumj
01-25-2009, 05:42 PM
You forgot Texas.:)
He just used their new name, the Texas Other. Hey, it takes a really well run organization to survive such an awful sounding name.

hebroncougar
01-25-2009, 07:23 PM
Twins for my money. Almost all of their players are homegrown, they don't have a lot of money to work with, and they are consistently in the thick of things. They can't afford to make mistakes, and rarely do.

vaticanplum
01-25-2009, 07:46 PM
You forgot Texas.:)

And Atlanta...

*BaseClogger*
01-25-2009, 07:55 PM
So much for the theory that the majority of RZ posters have Billy Beane shrines in their closets? ;)

marcshoe
01-25-2009, 08:22 PM
I voted for the Red Sox because they've positioned themselves for not only success but possible domination in the coming years in ways that other big-market teams haven't been able to do. They have become what everyone thought the Yankees were.

I am surprised the votes so overwhelming, though.

Emin3mShady07
01-25-2009, 08:45 PM
So much for the theory that the majority of RZ posters have Billy Beane shrines in their closets? ;)

I have one, but I still voted for Boston because Theo has taken over as the SABR king in baseball. Granted if Beane had 100 million + to deal with then maybe he'd still be the best, but it is hard to argue with what Boston has done over the last half dozen years.

jojo
01-25-2009, 08:54 PM
I have one, but I still voted for Boston because Theo has taken over as the SABR king in baseball. Granted if Beane had 100 million + to deal with then maybe he'd still be the best, but it is hard to argue with what Boston has done over the last half dozen years.

Theo is more of an integrator (stats-scouting). Beane takes saber much more to the extreme (to the point of actually de-emphasizing scouting).

Beane is still in a league of his own as far as being avant-garde IMHO.

Caveat Emperor
01-25-2009, 08:57 PM
And Atlanta...

Sorry V -- I added your beloved Braves. ;)

remdog
01-25-2009, 09:12 PM
Can this poll be updated so that we can see who voted for which organizations?

Rem

Caveat Emperor
01-25-2009, 09:17 PM
Can this poll be updated so that we can see who voted for which organizations?

Rem

There was no way to add a public poll (that I saw) to a pre-existing thread. Apparently there are some limits to a mod's power.

fearofpopvol1
01-25-2009, 09:29 PM
Where the heck is Cincinnati? They deserve their own spot on this poll!!

remdog
01-25-2009, 09:39 PM
Apparently there are some limits to a mod's power.

I didn't know that! I thought Mods had unlimited power! :)

Rem

remdog
01-25-2009, 09:42 PM
Where the heck is Cincinnati? They deserve their own spot on this poll!!

It's to protect the Reds. After all, if they were in the poll and got no votes on a Reds board they wouldn't look so good. However, if they aren't included in the poll then they have a reason for getting no votes. :p:

Rem

jojo
01-25-2009, 09:48 PM
Where the heck is Cincinnati? They deserve their own spot on this poll!!

Maybe people are voting for the Reds Sox by mistake?

blumj
01-25-2009, 10:13 PM
Maybe people are voting for the Reds Sox by mistake?
Sort of like, Go Reds

















ox?

SteelSD
01-25-2009, 11:06 PM
Theo is more of an integrator (stats-scouting). Beane takes saber much more to the extreme (to the point of actually de-emphasizing scouting).

Beane is still in a league of his own as far as being avant-garde IMHO.

I've always held that Beane should pass off credit for much of the A's success to Paul Depodesta. Beane's the salesman, but Depodesta was the value engineer. Beane has been able to perpetuate the model, but I'm not sure that Beane's cajones can compensate for a guy (Depo) who may be the most important front office figure in the game today.

Highlifeman21
01-25-2009, 11:09 PM
I took the names that have been mentioned thus far and added a poll.

Vote away. ;)

... but you made it a private poll...

C'mon new mod!

*BaseClogger*
01-25-2009, 11:15 PM
Well, I'll come clean and reveal I voted for the Rays... :D

OnBaseMachine
01-25-2009, 11:50 PM
I voted for the Red Sox.

jojo
01-26-2009, 12:06 AM
I've always held that Beane should pass off credit for much of the A's success to Paul Depodesta. Beane's the salesman, but Depodesta was the value engineer. Beane has been able to perpetuate the model, but I'm not sure that Beane's cajones can compensate for a guy (Depo) who may be the most important front office figure in the game today.

I like DePodesta a lot.

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

Emin3mShady07
01-26-2009, 12:26 AM
I've always held that Beane should pass off credit for much of the A's success to Paul Depodesta. Beane's the salesman, but Depodesta was the value engineer. Beane has been able to perpetuate the model, but I'm not sure that Beane's cajones can compensate for a guy (Depo) who may be the most important front office figure in the game today.

There is no doubt in my mind that Paul Depodesta deserves a lot of credit for what he did, but I don't think Beane should lose any of his credit because of it - and I am not sure if you were even saying something like that. I mean, Beane was still in control of the entire operation and he was just using and interpreting data that Depodesta passed onto him. Depodesta was a valuable asset to Beane, in a similar way the data available on the internet influences my opinion of the value of a ball player, but in the end Beane had to go with his own opinion and I highly doubt he was blindly following everything Depodesta said.

Plus, I don't know how much of the data was developed by Depodesta or modified or simply collected on his laptop. Did he develop the formulas or just use what past sabermatricians had laid out for him? I dunno, I haven't done much reasearch on the subject. Additionally, most GM's now have aides like Depodesta was to Beane, albeit not necessarily as good or as helpful. So it's not like Theo works on his own either.

Mario-Rijo
01-26-2009, 02:27 AM
I voted Red Sox because I believe they have the best mix of new age/old school approach. Minnesota does a good job of drafting and developing and putting out a quality major league product on the cheap. The Angels are pretty well run also.

Ron Madden
01-26-2009, 02:36 AM
I had to go with the Red Sox.

:)

dougdirt
01-26-2009, 04:26 AM
I went with the Red Sox, like the majority has, simply because you can't argue the results. They have done a great job drafting and developing as well as bringing in good free agents, making good trades and well, the most important thing... winning. There is not a weakness in what they do that I can see. Sure, they have more money than most other teams do, but thats not even close to being the only reason they are successful.

RFS62
01-26-2009, 11:03 AM
Boston, hands down

BuckeyeRedleg
01-26-2009, 11:42 AM
2005 draft:
-Ellsbury 1-23
-Buchholz 1-42
-Lowrie 1-45

2004 draft:
-Pedroia 2-64 (16 spots after the Reds took B.J. Szymanski)

2003 draft:
-Papelbon 4-114 (3 spots after the Reds took Kenny Lewis, 33 spots after the Reds took Jose Ronda, 63 spots after Thomas Pauley).

2002 draft:
-Lester 2-52 (17 spots after the Reds took Mark Schramek)

2001 draft:
-Shoppach 2-48 (44 spots after the Reds punted on Jeremy Sowers)
-Youkilis 8-243 (26 spots after the Reds took Bobby Basham and 56 spots after the Reds took Scott Light).

RedEye
01-26-2009, 09:49 PM
I was split between Boston and Oakland for the poll. I chose Oakland because I feel like Beane does more with less. Boston definitely does more with more than any other team in the majors, though. So I don't blame those who voted for 'em.