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reds77
01-26-2009, 11:31 PM
The show ranked Larkin the 8th best SS of all time. They had comments from John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, and John Kruk talking about how good Larkin was at all aspects of the game. I know I have all 9 right, but my order might be wrong as I find my memory not to be what it once was. :)

9- Luke Appling
8- Barry Larkin
7- Derek Jeter
6-Arky Vaughan
5- Ozzie Smith
4- Ernie Banks
3- Cal Ripken Jr.
2- Alex Rodriguez
1- Honus Wagner

mlh1981
01-26-2009, 11:52 PM
Like they mentioned on the show, the SS position might be the only one in MLB where the guy who gets mentioned as the greatest at his position of all time isn't someone relatively "new" to the scene.

I do believe though, that if Alex Rodriguez has continued to play short, that he would've gone down as the greatest SS of all time. I'm glad they put him over Ripken, though. At times, Ripken was hurting his team by playing through immense pain, all in the name of the "streak"

Roush's socks
01-27-2009, 01:25 AM
That would seem to make him a HOF'er if he's top 10 all-time.

goreds2
01-27-2009, 01:59 AM
That would seem to make him a HOF'er if he's top 10 all-time.

Sounds good to me. :thumbup:

Ghosts of 1990
01-27-2009, 02:47 AM
Vizquel makes the list if Ozzie does.

That list loses all credibility otherwise.

reds77
01-27-2009, 09:42 AM
Vizquel makes the list if Ozzie does.

That list loses all credibility otherwise.

The show does operate under the premise that baseball is a great game to discuss and debate over who is the best, best teams, etc. The show doesn't go in with the bias attitude that "our list is THE list that must be followed." I'd put Vizquel in the top 10, not the top 9 myself.

thatcoolguy_22
01-27-2009, 10:15 AM
I always think its funny that Larkin won the MVP in 1995 with this line:

.886 OPS 133 OPS+ (very solid line no doubt)

However the year after he does this:

.977 OPS 154 OPS+

and finishes 12th. Hilarious. Larkins 1996 season is one of the greatest seasons ever by a SS and he finishes 12th in the MVP voting.

UPRedsFan
01-27-2009, 11:51 AM
Your order matches the show's order.

I agree there are some notable missing names. What about Davey? A little more offense and just as good a defense as the wizard. But darn it he didn't do the back flips.

If we're doing a top ten Davey's got to be there

CySeymour
01-27-2009, 12:23 PM
What about Davey? ...just as good a defense as the wizard. But darn it he didn't do the back flips.


Really? Just as good as Ozzie?

No.

Davey was darn good, no question. But Ozzie was in another category all his own when it came to defense.

dougflynn23
01-27-2009, 12:42 PM
I always think its funny that Larkin won the MVP in 1995 with this line:

.886 OPS 133 OPS+ (very solid line no doubt)

However the year after he does this:

.977 OPS 154 OPS+

and finishes 12th. Hilarious. Larkins 1996 season is one of the greatest seasons ever by a SS and he finishes 12th in the MVP voting. The stat line that deserved the 1995 NL MVP was....

Greg Maddux 19-2 209.7 IP 1.63 ERA 0.81 WHIP 147 H 23 BB 181 K

ChatterRed
01-27-2009, 01:01 PM
That list is completely based on their offensive production. Many of those guys were average or worse fielders. I think the list is a disgrace to players like Concepcion who completely redefined the position, followed by Ozzie and others. A-Rod was not a great fielding SS.

kentjett
01-27-2009, 01:19 PM
A rod was a better fielder than Jeter and everybody knew it but they didn't want to move Jeter because of his popularity. Derek Jeter would never make this list if he played for Cincy or anybody else besides the Yankees.

Bip Roberts
01-27-2009, 01:49 PM
The stat line that deserved the 1995 NL MVP was....

Greg Maddux 19-2 209.7 IP 1.63 ERA 0.81 WHIP 147 H 23 BB 181 K
yep

thatcoolguy_22
01-27-2009, 03:25 PM
The stat line that deserved the 1995 NL MVP was....

Greg Maddux 19-2 209.7 IP 1.63 ERA 0.81 WHIP 147 H 23 BB 181 K

Maybe if he had a .80 whip and a 1.62 ERA otherwise there is no way I could give a pitcher the MVP. I mean he had 23 BB for pete's sake :D

Slyder
01-27-2009, 03:39 PM
Maddux was equal opportunity, he didnt want to get his defense bored so he only struck out 181, maybe if he'd been a bit more greedy with K's he might have won it.

steig
01-27-2009, 05:57 PM
This list looked respectable until I saw Jeter

UC_Ken
01-27-2009, 08:33 PM
This list looked respectable until I saw Jeter

I'm an admitted Jeter basher but even I admit he should be on the list. While his defense has been from bad to miserable based on any objective criteria he has racked up some significant offensive stats and played on 4 world championship teams.

Just a side note about Larkin someone mentioned him as a borderline HOF guy during this piece. I get the feeling that he'll start with about 50% of the vote and climb in eventually like Jim Rice did. I think he's a no brainer but I don't think people outside Cincy recognize that.

steig
01-27-2009, 10:49 PM
I'm an admitted Jeter basher but even I admit he should be on the list. While his defense has been from bad to miserable based on any objective criteria he has racked up some significant offensive stats and played on 4 world championship teams.

Just a side note about Larkin someone mentioned him as a borderline HOF guy during this piece. I get the feeling that he'll start with about 50% of the vote and climb in eventually like Jim Rice did. I think he's a no brainer but I don't think people outside Cincy recognize that.

Put Jeter on any other team where he can't get the Yankee love from announcers or lineup protection of a 200 million dollar team and he is at best slightly better than average shortstop. Jeff Kent is a marginal HOF candidate because his defense was poor but he put up very good offensive numbers in this hitters era. I just believe Jeter benefits mainly from being a yankee.

Roush's socks
01-28-2009, 12:12 AM
Jeter had some good years earlier, but his Offensive Winning % for most of his career is not that impressive. I think Larkin should be higher than 9th. He is difficult to rate because at his best he was top 5, but he had so many years with injuries.

graveyard
01-28-2009, 01:20 PM
For those of us who saw davey and ozzie. Ozzie was not any better.

GoGoWhiteSox
01-28-2009, 03:39 PM
I had no problem with the Prime 9 list. I was happy to see an old White Sox shortstop on there, Luke "Ol' Aches and Pains" Appling.:)

mlh1981
01-28-2009, 06:17 PM
I agree with what people say about Jeter on here. His career is taking a strange path. Usually, as guys get a bit older, they develop more power to compensate for lost bat speed. They don't spray the ball around as much. Jeter's power, what little bit he had, has seemed to completely fallen off the table.

I always felt the real leaders of those Yankees championship teams were guys like Paul O'Neill, Tino Martinez, etc. Not Jeter. Granted, his highlight moments are SO spectacular, that just for those things alone, maybe he belongs on this list.

DTCromer
01-29-2009, 07:49 PM
The show ranked Larkin the 8th best SS of all time. They had comments from John Smoltz, Tom Glavine, and John Kruk talking about how good Larkin was at all aspects of the game. I know I have all 9 right, but my order might be wrong as I find my memory not to be what it once was. :)

9- Luke Appling
8- Barry Larkin
7- Derek Jeter
6-Arky Vaughan
5- Ozzie Smith
4- Ernie Banks
3- Cal Ripken Jr.
2- Alex Rodriguez
1- Honus Wagner

Ripken was overrated as a baseball player from Day 1. I commend him on the streak as it was something no one will ever touch, but without it, never seemed like one of the GOAT. Hell, I'd put Ernie Banks, Ozzie Smith, and Jeter above him.

will5979
01-30-2009, 11:53 AM
The stat line that deserved the 1995 NL MVP was....

Greg Maddux 19-2 209.7 IP 1.63 ERA 0.81 WHIP 147 H 23 BB 181 K

That is why there is an award called the Cy Young. I hate it when a pitcher gets the MVP.

Also I can't believe Ozzie Smith was ranked ahead of Larkin...I would have taken Lark anyday over Ozzie.

gedred69
01-30-2009, 11:44 PM
For those of us who saw davey and ozzie. Ozzie was not any better.

I marvel at how forgotten Davey is. He figured out how to do things no one else did. He gets the edge over Ozzie because of his arm and his bat. Too many never got to actually see him play.

reds77
01-31-2009, 09:56 AM
As for the Jeter bashers, the guy is most likely going to end his career with over 3,000 hits so I think he does belong on the list. Yes, he is overrated, but is an all-time great SS.