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Jpup
01-28-2009, 10:10 AM
According to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick, free agent outfielder Bobby Abreu has lowered his expectations to the three-year, $10-11MM range of Raul Ibanez and Milton Bradley.

The Dodgers, Reds, or Braves could get in on Abreu, but I imagine they'd still balk at the price.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/bobby-abreu-low.html

I'd give him 2 years for $20M with an option. Anyone else interested?

Redhook
01-28-2009, 10:20 AM
Yes. Definitely.

Jpup
01-28-2009, 10:37 AM
As the market for free-agent outfielder Adam Dunn and Bobby Abreu continues to drop, the Braves are becoming more intrigued with them. But it's hard to believe that either of them could be acquired for anything less than an offer that would provide them $5 million for the upcoming season. Trading with the Yankees for either Nick Swisher or Xavier Nady would also eat up most of Atlanta's available funds. Swisher will make $5.3 million this year, and Nady will draw a salary of $6.55 million. -- MLB.com

RedEye
01-28-2009, 10:43 AM
I'll second what someone wrote in another thread about this possibility:

Sign Abreu, bat him third, and leave him alone for the rest of the year.

I really can't imagine a better player to acquire right now. He is just about exactly the type of hitter this lineup needs, and his defense can't be worse than Jonny Gomes. If Dickerson gets moved to CF in the process, I might actually think I'm starting to wake up from this boring nightmare of an offseason.

redsmetz
01-28-2009, 10:55 AM
I'd do it. Make the buyout a million or two and that's equivalent to two years at $11M.

GADawg
01-28-2009, 11:30 AM
I'm in....for some strange reason I keep thinking the Reds will end up with him...probably that premature statement that Jocketty made about being finished for the off-season.

also I'd be trying to get in on Sheets or even Garland. The Reds have more options for starters(decent options I mean)than they've had in years but at the same time we've all seen how many it can possibly take to make it through the season.

all together now..."you can never have enough pitching"....

Emin3mShady07
01-28-2009, 11:33 AM
I'd rather trade for Nick Swisher other things equal.

Last year Abreu was at least a -10 run defender in right and swisher was roughly a +5 defender in LF.

Swisher is projected to bounce back and wOBA .360 by Chone and Abreu is expected to drop a little and wOBA .361 by Chone. The difference on offense is about 1/2 a run over 650 PAs, but the difference on defense is astonishing.

And the fact that it took Jeff marquez and Wilson "i am worse than juan uribe" Betemit to acquire means that I think the reds could get him for peanuts.

But Abreu would still be an upgrade if Dickerson was moved to CF and took the majority of playing time away from Willy Taveras.

Jpup
01-28-2009, 11:34 AM
The talk is that the Rangers have only offered Sheets 1 year, I would counter that with, at least, a two year deal. The Reds get Abreu and Sheets and then they might have something. It will never happen though.

Jpup
01-28-2009, 11:35 AM
I'd rather trade for Nick Swisher other things equal.

Last year Abreu was at least a -10 run defender in right and swisher was roughly a +5 defender in LF.

Swisher is projected to bounce back and wOBA .360 by Chone and Abreu is expected to drop a little and wOBA .361 by Chone. The difference on offense is about 1/2 a run over 650 PAs, but the difference on defense is astonishing.

And the fact that it took Jeff marquez and Wilson "i am worse than juan uribe" Betemit to acquire means that I think the reds could get him for peanuts.

But Abreu would still be an upgrade if Dickerson was moved to CF and took the majority of playing time away from Willy Taveras.

The difference is that Brian Cashman is a lot smarter than Kenny Williams. Cash knows what he has in Swisher.

Emin3mShady07
01-28-2009, 11:36 AM
The difference is that Brian Cashman is a lot smarter than Kenny Williams. Cash knows what he has in Swisher.

:bang: :bang: I hate that I know that you are right.

Razor Shines
01-28-2009, 11:46 AM
I would be ecstatic if the Reds signed Abreu. And not because I think he'd put them in the playoff hunt, but because hopefully our young hitters would learn from Abeu's plate approach. I can't think of many guys better (Adam Dunn for one) for Bruce to learn from than Abreu.

Jpup
01-28-2009, 11:51 AM
This is from Buster Olney (Free preview of the Insider article @ ESPN.com)


As recently as a week ago, the asking price on Bobby Abreu was said to be locked in place, a three-year deal for something in the neighborhood of $16 million a year. But those numbers were based on appraisals made before the motor companies got an executive bailout, before the Dow Jones Industrial Average shrunk to four digits.

In the last few days, Abreu -- like so many other veteran players -- has come to grips with the reality that the lush multi-year deal is simply not going to be there for him, and the All-Star who hit 20 homers and accumulated an on-base percentage of .371 last season is said to be willing to take a one-year deal.

It is not what Abreu wants, it is not what Adam Dunn wants, or what Jason Varitek wants. It may take awhile for proud veteran players with solid track records to fully accept the humbling reality that the big money is just not there for them, for whatever reason they choose to believe.

But once those players settle on the fact that they are taking a one-year deal, the market place will probably open up for them. A lot more teams will become interested, presumably.

Abreu, on a modest one-year deal, would seemingly be in the price range of the Mets, Braves, Angels, Giants and maybe the Red Sox. Dunn might draw interest from the Yankees, a team for which he is perfectly suited, if they could shed the contracts of two of the three from the group of Xavier Nady, Hideki Matsui and Nick Swisher. Abreu, Dunn and Varitek can go someplace and bust it for one year, and if they have a strong season, they can hope that the economic troubles will have less bearing on the market next offseason than they did this winter.

Spending across this market is down significantly, as these updated numbers from ESPN research monster Mark Simon show:

Jon Garland, who turned down arbitration and the chance to get an award that probably would have fallen in the range of $12 million to $14 million for the 2009 season, may be closing in on a deal with the D-Backs, writes Steve Gilbert. <

To continue reading this article you must be an Insider.

redsmetz
01-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Regarding the Olney piece, it's important to keep in mind that even at significantly reduced salaries, these guys are going to be making some serious cash. And they can ride it out and see where the market is the next time. It ought to start breaking up in the next couple of weeks since camps start in a three weeks.

Sea Ray
01-28-2009, 01:33 PM
Jon Garland, who turned down arbitration and the chance to get an award that probably would have fallen in the range of $12 million to $14 million for the 2009 season, may be closing in on a deal with the D-Backs, writes Steve Gilbert. <

I thought the D-Backs were out of money?

No way we sign Abreu. Management has clearly said we cannot add another $10mill and if we do add a LF that just pushes Dickerson aside.

If we can squander up some money, I'd rather they spend it on a LH starting pitcher like Oliver Perez or Randy Wolf.

BRM
01-28-2009, 01:34 PM
I thought the D-Backs were out of money?

No way we sign Abreu. Management has clearly said we cannot add another $10mill and if we do add a LF that just pushes Dickerson aside.


Good point. Although it should push Taveras aside but I digress.

lollipopcurve
01-28-2009, 01:42 PM
GAB would be a great spot for Abreu to put up big #s and position himself for another contract.

He's a veteran of the Caracas squad in the Venezuelan League -- as is Alex Gonzalez, so maybe AGon can lobby for Cincy.

Reds bench would be excellent if Abreu comes. Hairston, Hanigan, Gomes, Dickerson, Keppinger.

Matt700wlw
01-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Abreu willing to take a one year deal now...

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3865815&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3865815%26name%3dolne y_buster

In the past few days, Abreu -- like so many other veteran players -- has come to grips with the reality that the lush multiyear deal simply is not going to be there for him, and the All-Star who hit 20 homers and accumulated an on-base percentage of .371 this past season is said to be willing to take a one-year deal.

edabbs44
01-28-2009, 01:46 PM
The difference is that Brian Cashman is a lot smarter than Kenny Williams. Cash knows what he has in Swisher.

"Smart" might be a stretch for Cashman.

Raisor
01-28-2009, 01:46 PM
I think I read someplace tat Abreu might take a one year deal!

;)

Matt700wlw
01-28-2009, 01:49 PM
oops

:)

WMR
01-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Put your money where your big mouth is, Castellini.

_Sir_Charles_
01-28-2009, 02:19 PM
Jockety was just on MLB network's Hot Stove and he didn't sound like the Reds would be interested in ANYBODY right now. I'd say the odds of another signing are long indeed.

Will M
01-28-2009, 02:22 PM
Adding Abreu (or Nady/Swisher/Dye/etc) makes the Reds a team that is likely to have a winning record and could get into the playoffs if things go well.

Abreu pushes Dickerson into the CF/4th OF mix with Taveras and Hairston.

The lineup could be:
CF Dickerson/Hairston/Taveras
LF Abreu
1B Votto
3B EE
RF Bruce
2B Phillips
C Hernandez/Hanigan
SS Gonzo

Bench has Keppinger & 25th man (rosales/nix/gomes/castillo/etc)

With the Reds pitching the above is the best team we have had in quite a few years.

TRF
01-28-2009, 02:35 PM
With the Reds pitching the above is the best team we have had in quite a few years.

How different, minus pitching is this that team from the 2007 team when Jr. hit 35 HR's?

2007 was a very good offensive team, and we are just two years removed from it. in 2008, the reds dropped nearly 100 points of OPS in CF, and I don't see them making that up in 2009. I can envision another 100 point drop in LF this year too. RF is guesswork. Honestly I can see only two positions offensively that I feel certain will be above average, 1B and 3B.

Now add Abreu to the mix, and it begs the questions of what to do with Gomes, will Dickerson be the 4th OF or relegated to patrolling CF in Louisville?

I'd like to see Abreu in LF. Don't think for a minute it will happen though.

edabbs44
01-28-2009, 02:36 PM
Jockety was just on MLB network's Hot Stove and he didn't sound like the Reds would be interested in ANYBODY right now. I'd say the odds of another signing are long indeed.

If money is tight then that sounds about accurate.

Blitz Dorsey
01-28-2009, 02:46 PM
I'd put the odds here at about 1 percent.

A. The Reds don't want to spend another dime, let alone $10 million (even though that would certainly be a bargain for Abreu IMO).

B. If Abreu signs a one-year deal, I bet he wouldn't be interested in the Reds unless the Reds were willing to trump any offer. All things being equal, I bet he would sign elsewhere. We just don't have the cache to land big-time free agents right now unless we overpay for them. Playing in a bandbox should help us land free agent hitters, but so far it hasn't.

Emin3mShady07
01-28-2009, 02:47 PM
To be fair to the reds appeal, has ownership even really pushed to add a big time free agent?

TRF
01-28-2009, 02:49 PM
To be fair to the reds appeal, has ownership even really pushed to add a big time free agent?

Cordero springs to mind, but that was last offseason.

PuffyPig
01-28-2009, 03:18 PM
The talk is that the Rangers have only offered Sheets 1 year, I would counter that with, at least, a two year deal. The Reds get Abreu and Sheets and then they might have something. It will never happen though.

The word is that Sheets may be close to needing TJ surgery. It makes sense, as otherwise more teams would be interested.

OnBaseMachine
01-28-2009, 03:40 PM
Abreu willing to take a one year deal now...

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3865815&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3865815%26name%3dolne y_buster

In the past few days, Abreu -- like so many other veteran players -- has come to grips with the reality that the lush multiyear deal simply is not going to be there for him, and the All-Star who hit 20 homers and accumulated an on-base percentage of .371 this past season is said to be willing to take a one-year deal.

The Reds need jump all over this. Heck, I'd even go two years at 10 million per year.

fearofpopvol1
01-28-2009, 03:46 PM
no excuses in my opinion not to sign him for that contract length. none.

Caveat Emperor
01-28-2009, 03:50 PM
Put your money where your big mouth is, Castellini.

If they did sign Abreu, someone would need to ask Casty if they're back to "win now."

This is all fun talk, but really it's for naught. The Reds aren't going to add $10m in payroll, even if it's on a 1 year deal, and Abreu wouldn't come to a market like Cincinnati (off the national radar) on a 1 year deal if he's hoping to get the big offer next year when the economy turns back around.

kaldaniels
01-28-2009, 04:02 PM
If they did sign Abreu, someone would need to ask Casty if they're back to "win now."

This is all fun talk, but really it's for naught. The Reds aren't going to add $10m in payroll, even if it's on a 1 year deal, and Abreu wouldn't come to a market like Cincinnati (off the national radar) on a 1 year deal if he's hoping to get the big offer next year when the economy turns back around.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that Abreu would actually view playing in GABP as a positive being that it would inflate his stats for the next go-round in free agency?

LoganBuck
01-28-2009, 04:03 PM
The Reds need jump all over this. Heck, I'd even go two years at 10 million per year.

The Reds have already signed three outfielders, and they fit the new methodology of speed and defense, why would they want Abreu?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

BRM
01-28-2009, 04:09 PM
The Reds have already signed three outfielders, and they fit the new methodology of speed and defense, why would they want Abreu?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yeah, that Jonny Gomes is a gold-glove speed demon.

LoganBuck
01-28-2009, 04:22 PM
Yeah, that Jonny Gomes is a gold-glove speed demon.
Don't let facts get in the way of my sarcasm!!!!

In best Daugherty impersonation: But how does Abreu fit in with what the Reds are doing this year? He doesn't, they should just stick to with what they have.

Is Bcast paying for his rounds of golf and Keystone Light? If Mike Brown was pulling this he would be all over his case.

Some members of the media in Cincy either are completely clueless (I suspect Daugherty falls here) or are under the impression that Adam Dunn and KGJ caused all evil, and because they had power, the Reds should not bring in power.

IslandRed
01-28-2009, 04:57 PM
Is it out of the realm of possibility that Abreu would actually view playing in GABP as a positive being that it would inflate his stats for the next go-round in free agency?

Not out of the realm of possibility. It might carry more weight if the last GABP slugger wasn't standing right next to him in the "waiting for a contract" line, though.

Emin3mShady07
01-28-2009, 11:22 PM
Well, how much would a move to GABP actually help Abreu? Compared to last year?

I think the difference in stadium is quite negligible:

Yankee stadium dimensions:Left Field - 318 ft (96.9 m)
Left-Center - 399 ft (121.6 m)
Center Field - 408 ft (124.3 m)
Right-Center - 385 ft (117.3 m)
Right Field - 314 ft (95.7 m)
Park factor of 103 for batting

Great American Ball Park dimensions - Left Field - 328 ft (100 m)
Left-Center - 379 ft (116 m)
Center Field - 404 ft (123 m)
Right-Center - 370 ft (113 m)
Right Field - 325 ft (99 m)
Park factor of 104 for batting.

There really isn't much difference there, if you wanted to argue that the pitchers are better in the AL East than the NL Central you would probably be right, but how much of an impact would that make on Abreu? Again I feel it is negligible. So I don't think that Abreu would be enticed to come to Cincinnati just because of the stadium.

EDIT: PLus Abreu is not much of a homerun hitter anymore, he gets most of his power numbers from doubles which GABP actually surpresses slightly compared to the cavernous gaps at Yankee stadium.

RedLegSuperStar
02-02-2009, 12:14 AM
Buster Olney has this in his latest video:


One GM thinks Bobby Abreu may have to settle for a one-year, $7MM deal. Quite the dropoff from the initial three years, $48MM he was asking for to begin the season.

Tom Servo
02-02-2009, 12:44 AM
Buster Olney has this in his latest video:
That's a flat out steal.

Blitz Dorsey
02-02-2009, 01:19 AM
I think he means 1-year, $7 million with a contender. There is no way the Reds could get him for that cheap. I would love it though. We need to start selling free agent hitters on the fact that they will be playing in a bandbox.

RedLegSuperStar
02-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Abreu will pay for himself at 1 year / 7-8 million. Fans will pay money to see a team committed to winning. Abreu does nothing but make this club better offensively and that is something this team is lacking. If the team is wanting to save their nickles and dimes for next years free agent core then I wish they'd say that.

Will M
02-02-2009, 12:11 PM
Abreu will pay for himself at 1 year / 7-8 million. Fans will pay money to see a team committed to winning. Abreu does nothing but make this club better offensively and that is something this team is lacking. If the team is wanting to save their nickles and dimes for next years free agent core then I wish they'd say that.

absolutely. adding Abreu & a (hopefully) healthy Gonzo would make this team a lot better than it was 2 weeks ago. instead of starting bench players and having AAAA guys on the bench we would start real players with bench guys on the bench.

if the Reds sign Abreu & Gonzo can play SS we will likely have a winning record for the first time in years.

RedLegSuperStar
02-02-2009, 03:07 PM
Another thing is that if this club does add a Abreu and are winning come late July and early August then this team doesn't have to cut ticket prices to sell seats like in years past.

wheels
02-02-2009, 03:41 PM
We keep forgetting that Abreu is left handed.

No left handers allowed.

BRM
02-03-2009, 12:21 PM
MLB TradeRumors is reporting that the White Sox have offered Abreu a 1 yr, $8M deal.

RedEye
02-03-2009, 12:27 PM
MLB TradeRumors is reporting that the White Sox have offered Abreu a 1 yr, $8M deal.

I just patently don't understand why the Reds are not in the hunt for players like Abreu and Wigginton at the prices they are going for. Is Walt just phoning it in from the golf course or what? Can you all imagine getting both Abreu and Wigginton for a total of $11 per year? Wow.

BRM
02-03-2009, 12:33 PM
I just patently don't understand why the Reds are not in the hunt for players like Abreu and Wigginton at the prices they are going for. Is Walt just phoning it in from the golf course or what? Can you all imagine getting both Abreu and Wigginton for a total of $11 per year? Wow.

The market has come down to the Reds level and yet they are still running the other way.

RedEye
02-03-2009, 12:43 PM
The market has come down to the Reds level and yet they are still running the other way.

Exactly. It's absurd. They willingly spend $6 million on Willy Taveras, but they won't spend it on Ty Wigginton? They throw a combined $6 million at two aging relievers (Weathers, Lincoln) but they won't cough up $2 million extra to get Bobby freaking Abreu? It's laughable, really.

nate
02-03-2009, 12:46 PM
Exactly. It's absurd. They willingly spend $6 million on Willy Taveras, but they won't spend it on Ty Wigginton? They throw a combined $6 million at two aging relievers (Weathers, Lincoln) but they won't cough up $2 million extra to get Bobby freaking Abreu? It's laughable, really.

Although I don't like the deal Weathers ended up getting, I can see why the Reds offered arbitration.

RedEye
02-03-2009, 12:51 PM
Although I don't like the deal Weathers ended up getting, I can see why the Reds offered arbitration.

Because... ?

nate
02-03-2009, 01:00 PM
Because... ?

The chance at getting draft picks if he refused.

At least, I'm guessing that's why.

He got way more in arbitration than I thought he would.

RedEye
02-03-2009, 01:02 PM
The chance at getting draft picks if he refused.

At least, I'm guessing that's why.

He got way more in arbitration than I thought he would.

Except he didn't refuse... and they are stuck holding the bag. 40 year-old pitchers heading into an economic downturn won't usually turn down arbitration. Heck, he's making more now than Ty Wigginton!

nate
02-03-2009, 01:10 PM
Except he didn't refuse... and they are stuck holding the bag. 40 year-old pitchers heading into an economic downturn won't usually turn down arbitration. Heck, he's making more now than Ty Wigginton!

I'm with you, beer me.

I'm just saying I understand the risk they took when they did it.

Emin3mShady07
02-03-2009, 01:19 PM
MLB TradeRumors is reporting that the White Sox have offered Abreu a 1 yr, $8M deal.

That move could send Jermaine Dye to the Reds or Braves. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. Unless the Sox plan on putting Abreu in CF which is a terribly moronic thing to do.

RedEye
02-03-2009, 01:21 PM
That move could send Jermaine Dye to the Reds or Braves. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. Unless the Sox plan on putting Abreu in CF which is a terribly moronic thing to do.

The only thing more moronic would be if the Reds pass on signing Abreu for $8 million so that they can then trade Homer Bailey for Dye... and pay him $10 million.

Emin3mShady07
02-03-2009, 01:22 PM
The only thing more moronic would be if the Reds pass on signing Abreu for $8 million so that they can then trade Homer Bailey for Dye... and pay him $10 million.

But Dye hits Righty...:rolleyes:

That would be a stupid move by the reds, but I like it from my split team perspective:D

RichRed
02-03-2009, 01:25 PM
That move could send Jermaine Dye to the Reds or Braves. Otherwise it makes absolutely no sense. Unless the Sox plan on putting Abreu in CF which is a terribly moronic thing to do.

Well, they are the team that played Ken Griffey Jr. in CF for 32 games last season.

LoganBuck
02-03-2009, 02:44 PM
Speed and Defense, the Reds don't need players like Abreu :rolleyes:

WebScorpion
02-04-2009, 08:32 AM
I just patently don't understand why the Reds are not in the hunt for players like Abreu and Wigginton at the prices they are going for. Is Walt just phoning it in from the golf course or what? Can you all imagine getting both Abreu and Wigginton for a total of $11 per year? Wow.

It seems pretty cut and dried to me: The Reds spent money on cheap players early, then the bottom fell out of the market. The cheap players are now considered expensive and the Reds are now out of money, in fact, they're probably OVERbudget. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-fc/beam.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Redhook
02-04-2009, 09:32 AM
It seems pretty cut and dried to me: The Reds spent money on cheap players early, then the bottom fell out of the market.

Either way, it's ass-backwards if you ask me. IMO, get impact players and fill in the roster with the best available after that. The Reds do it backwards and don't get any impact players. It's similar to the stupid Bungles building their team from the outside-to-in. Every good football team builds from the trenches.

jesusfan
02-04-2009, 10:20 AM
It will be very interesting to see what this team does this season without Dunn and Griffey as the "leaders"... I think the youth and energy will win a few games for us, but the lack of talent will show in the end... I expect a quick start out of the gate, then a plummet towards the end of the season...

I would just hate to see the Nats sign Dunn and Hudson... They would be very good offensively with Zimmerman, Dunn, Hudson, Miledge, Dukes, Guzman, Belliard, Willingham and Nick Johnson back... Talk about a load of outfielders... Kearns and Wily Mo probably wouldn't even make the team..

OnBaseMachine
02-08-2009, 01:30 PM
3. Bobby Abreu, OF, free agent: The feeling is that he may have to sign for about $3 million on a one-year or two-year deal. At that price, the Angels, Mets, Braves, and Dodgers would have big-time interest. Another team hot after him is Seattle.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/02/08/a_tough_pitch_to_let_go_by/?page=5

Wow. Jocketty would have to be crazy to not offer Abreu a deal. Offer him a one year deal worth around $7 million with an option for a second year.

Krusty
02-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Wait a minute. Didn't everyone think that Chris Dickerson should be given a shot to play everyday? Well, it seems like the Reds are going to grant that wish. Now if you sign Abreu, where does that put Dickerson? Back on the bench as the fourth outfielder. And, do you want a young guy sitting on the bench lucky to play once or twice a week?

mth123
02-08-2009, 01:50 PM
Wait a minute. Didn't everyone think that Chris Dickerson should be given a shot to play everyday? Well, it seems like the Reds are going to grant that wish. Now if you sign Abreu, where does that put Dickerson? Back on the bench as the fourth outfielder. And, do you want a young guy sitting on the bench lucky to play once or twice a week?

The whole point was to let Dickerson play CF and not block a move for a good player with a commitment to a scrub like Taveras.

Caveat Emperor
02-08-2009, 02:58 PM
Wait a minute. Didn't everyone think that Chris Dickerson should be given a shot to play everyday? Well, it seems like the Reds are going to grant that wish. Now if you sign Abreu, where does that put Dickerson? Back on the bench as the fourth outfielder. And, do you want a young guy sitting on the bench lucky to play once or twice a week?

A young, unproven player should never be handed anything if the ability exists to get better players. Especially when feelings are decidedly mixed among the "experts" as to the ability of the young player in question.

membengal
02-08-2009, 02:59 PM
Wait a minute. Didn't everyone think that Chris Dickerson should be given a shot to play everyday? Well, it seems like the Reds are going to grant that wish. Now if you sign Abreu, where does that put Dickerson? Back on the bench as the fourth outfielder. And, do you want a young guy sitting on the bench lucky to play once or twice a week?


Yeah. CF. And as it stands, even now, it appears that Dickerson will NOT be given a chance to play every day in LF. So that is shot already.

IF they could get Abreu. They should.

RedEye
02-08-2009, 04:06 PM
An Abreu-Dickerson-Bruce outfield would be much more productive than the current LF platoon with Taveras in center. It is hard to believe that they spent so much on so little... and now have so little left to offer to better options.

Sea Ray
02-08-2009, 04:19 PM
They've made it very clear that they're going with Willy in CF. Accept that and move on. While we're at it, Brandon Phillips is not moving to SS and EE is not going to LF.

With that in mind, Abreau is not a fit for this team. Redszoners have spoken and are on record with their opinion of Willy in CF.

M2
02-08-2009, 05:08 PM
A young, unproven player should never be handed anything if the ability exists to get better players. Especially when feelings are decidedly mixed among the "experts" as to the ability of the young player in question.

Call it the Brandon Larson Theorem.

corkedbat
02-08-2009, 06:23 PM
Hell, give 2yrs for #10M toal, call it a bargain and shut the door, let WillyT fight Hairston for the RH half of the CF/leadoff platoon - otherwise let him ne the 5th OF/PR/late-inng defensive replacement. I actually wouldn't complain much about Taveras if he only played against LH starters (provided there isn't a sudden epidemic of LH-starters).

RedEye
02-08-2009, 07:11 PM
They've made it very clear that they're going with Willy in CF. Accept that and move on. While we're at it, Brandon Phillips is not moving to SS and EE is not going to LF.

With that in mind, Abreau is not a fit for this team. Redszoners have spoken and are on record with their opinion of Willy in CF.

According to you or according to the Reds FO? Because I think there is actually a very strong case to be made that he is a fit for this team. And if they can get him to sign for as little as $3 to $5 million? It's absurd that they would not consider it.

corkedbat
02-08-2009, 07:19 PM
At $3-5M/yr, Abreu is a fit for almost every team. We're paying $3.25M/yr for Taveras and he's about 10% the player Abreu is.

RedEye
02-08-2009, 07:24 PM
At $3-5M/yr, Abreu is a fit for almostmevery team. We're paying $3.25M/yr for Taveras and he's about 10% the player Abreu is.

Yep. Plus Abreu is exactly the type of disciplined hitter this lineup lacks (other than Votto). For that reason, I also think he'd be a vastly superior 1-2 year rental to Dye. Without some more hitters with patience, this team is going to get mowed down by every pitcher that knows anything about spotting a fastball.

Edit: I should add that EdE also at least has the potential to be a patient hitter. Stilll, two hitters is not a whole lot to work with.

corkedbat
02-08-2009, 07:27 PM
Yep. Plus Abreu is exactly the type of disciplined hitter this lineup lacks (other than Votto). For that reason, I also think he'd be a vastly superior 1-2 year rental to Dye. Without some more hitters with patience, this team is going to get mowed down by every pitcher that knows anything about spotting a fastball.

Great point. I'd love to add plate discipline to this lineup. I know some have said he's not the oF he used to be, but since you already have Taveras, you could bring him in late-inning with a lead and move Dickerson to LF.

RedEye
02-08-2009, 07:37 PM
Great point. I'd love to add plate discipline to this lineup. I know some have said he's not the oF he used to be, but since you already have Taveras, you could bring him in late-inning with a lead and move Dickerson to LF.

Exactly. I think the consensus is indeed that Abreu is no longer a very good OF. But I also think the Reds have bigger issues to contend with than their OF defense. With Dickerson in CF and Bruce in RF, adding Abreu as the starting LF and using Taveras and/or Gomes as late-inning replacements could actually give Dusty some good options. Okay, well I'm not sure that Gomes would be a viable defensive replacement... but at least he'd be some decent pop off the bench.

corkedbat
02-08-2009, 07:45 PM
Exactly. I think the consensus is indeed that Abreu is no longer a very good OF. But I also think the Reds have bigger issues to contend with than their OF defense. With Dickerson in CF and Bruce in RF, adding Abreu as the starting LF and using Taveras and/or Gomes as late-inning replacements could actually give Dusty some good options. Okay, well I'm not sure that Gomes would be a viable defensive replacement... but at least he'd be some decent pop off the bench.

Yeah, Abreu-Dickerson/Taveras-Bruce would still be better defensively than having Bruce flanked by Dunn and Junior.

Falls City Beer
02-08-2009, 07:52 PM
Yeah, Abreu-Dickerson/Taveras-Bruce would still be better defensively than having Bruce flanked by Dunn and Junior.

This is beyond an understatement. It's like saying hydrogen's different from einsteinium.

corkedbat
02-08-2009, 07:55 PM
This is beyond an understatement. It's like saying hydrogen's different from einsteinium.

It certainly ain't rocket science. I thinnk the offensive production would be closer than Dickerson/Hairston/Jones-Taveras-Bruce though