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View Full Version : Per Fay: "Only looking at Fringe guys"...says Walt



wojo1025
01-30-2009, 06:50 PM
Talking to Jocketty
Posted by JohnFay at 1/30/2009 4:07 PM EST on Cincinnati.com

Walt Jocketty said that Reds continue to have conversations with free agents but not the kind of guys that will make headlines.

"I talked to some agents and gotten some e-mails," Jocketty said. "We're talking to some fringe guys who are trying to get into camp."

Jocketty said at this point the Reds are only talking about minor league contracts with invites to camp.

He downplayed the possibility of Luis Gonzalez being signed.

"I talked to his agent," Jocketty said. "But that was several weeks ago."

The Reds have had contact with Ty Wigginton's representative.

"I talked to his agent," Jocketty said. "They're getting close to desperate stage. But we're really only looking at bench help. I think that's the only type of guys we'll bring in -- if we do that."

One thing to keep in mind about Type A free agents: If you sign them now, you lose a draft pick. If you sign them after the June draft, there's no compensation.

"It's a possibility that you'll see guys go until then," Jocketty said.

Assistant GM Bob Miller is handling the negotiations with Edwin Encarnacion. "He hasn't talked to (Encarnacion's) agent in a few days," Jocketty said. "I still think we'll settle, but it will probably happen closer to the hearing date."

mroby85
01-30-2009, 06:54 PM
"We need a right handed power bat" "someone who produces runs"
"We're looking at some guys for the middle of the order"
"With Griffey and Dunns contracts out, there is some free money to spend"
BULLCRAP!

wojo1025
01-30-2009, 06:59 PM
I am a HUGE baseball fan and I simply can't wait for the season to start. I am trying to stay as positive as possible about the upcoming season, but this has been a very disappointing winter. I had such high expectations for a few moves we'd make and unfortunately it seems we're just spinning our wheels...sigh

texasdave
01-30-2009, 07:14 PM
IMO, he has only been looking at fringe guys all winter. Case in point, Willy Taveras for CF. Walt's moves have been less than inspiring. Rhodes, Gomes, Nix, Hairston etc. People try to defend Jocketty by saying he hasn't made any really dumb moves. I'd counter that signing Taveras for $4 million for 2010, in today's economy, fits all the necessary criteria to be labeled a dumb move.

texasdave
01-30-2009, 07:19 PM
"We need a right handed power bat" "someone who produces runs"
"We're looking at some guys for the middle of the order"
"With Griffey and Dunns contracts out, there is some free money to spend"
BULLCRAP!

I will second this. With the money that was freed up and with the price of middle-of-the-order bats sinking to the level that they have, it is pretty hard to believe that Walt still hasn't been able to check "priority one" off of his to-do list this winter. If he is waiting until June it might no longer be such a high priority. The Reds may be too far behind for it to matter all that much.

WildcatFan
01-30-2009, 07:43 PM
Man, if Luis Gonzalez doesn't qualify as a "fringe guy," I'm afraid to see who does...

Jerome
01-30-2009, 07:59 PM
Fringe guy---one who will gladly come off the bench to bat for the pitcher in the seventh inning and proceed to strike out.

jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

roby
01-30-2009, 08:40 PM
Fringe guy---one who will gladly come off the bench to bat for the pitcher in the seventh inning and proceed to strike out.

jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

Walt is starting to really tick me off. the Reds are close...have as good a chance of winning as they have in years...should have the money available...SAID they had money available...and then piddle the season away before it ever starts. It is getting really hard to be a Reds fan.

Kingspoint
01-30-2009, 10:05 PM
Even though Walt is saying this now, I've always felt that he didn't have to make the decision about a shortstop until the middle of March, when they'd have a good gauge not only on the potential year-long status of Alex Gonzalez, but a good read on the "price and value" of available shortstops to replace/supplement the Alex at SS.

Newman4
01-30-2009, 11:21 PM
Walt continues to amaze me. He even publicly describes Wigginton as "desperate" and sits status quo. Does he even put out offers to these guys? The number of quality FA this year still available is very large. At least put some numbers out there and maybe someone will sign with the Reds. They have to play somewhere and the Reds certainly have holes.

Newport Red
01-30-2009, 11:32 PM
Maybe he has his poker face on. He did a good job with the Alonso signing, waiting until the last day and getting a reasonable contract.

He could be waiting for the price to drop even more. I don't see the point in letting the other teams in the league publically know your plans.

Could be wrong.

It makes me regret the Taveras signing though.

gedred69
01-30-2009, 11:37 PM
Looking at what's still out there, Has anything happened with Garciaparra? He's a bit younger. Betwixt him and Gonzalez, who would you rather see off the bench, and why? (Just asking)......................

TheBigLebowski
01-30-2009, 11:40 PM
The Tavares signing was a head scratcher, no doubt.

I still hope that this is all a part of some complicated gamesmanship - or, perhaps, brinksmanship.

Otherwise, the fans have been sold a bill of goods.

Ghosts of 1990
01-31-2009, 12:57 PM
IMO, he has only been looking at fringe guys all winter. Case in point, Willy Taveras for CF. Walt's moves have been less than inspiring. Rhodes, Gomes, Nix, Hairston etc. People try to defend Jocketty by saying he hasn't made any really dumb moves. I'd counter that signing Taveras for $4 million for 2010, in today's economy, fits all the necessary criteria to be labeled a dumb move.

Lol, seems like we've been looking at fringe guys for the last decade

BLEEDS
01-31-2009, 01:36 PM
Lol, seems like we've been looking at fringe guys for the last decade

Exactly, what kind of "fringe B" do you add to a roster filled with "fringe A" guys already?!?!

CAN there be folks more "fringe" than Tavares, Hairston, & Gomes, especially when you're considering those guys as OF Starter Candidates?!?!?!
:barf:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

akron3344
01-31-2009, 02:22 PM
precisely the whole organization is FRINGE

Newman4
01-31-2009, 02:24 PM
Exactly, what kind of "fringe B" do you add to a roster filled with "fringe A" guys already?!?!

CAN there be folks more "fringe" than Tavares, Hairston, & Gomes, especially when you're considering those guys as OF Starter Candidates?!?!?!
:barf:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Exactly, it like the pot calling the kettle black for Walt to call guys like Wigginton "fringe"

TheNext44
01-31-2009, 03:09 PM
I have actually liked every signing except Taveras, which I can't stand, nor understand. Rhodes was needed to replace Affeldt, Lincoln was very affordable, Hairston was needed to fill out the bench, and was very affordable, Gomes could be a great bargain, and offering Weathers arb. was a gamble that I would have made as well, even though I think Walt lost on that one.

However, I really think that Walt started out thinking there would be a bigger budget and had the rug pulled out from under him by Cast. I don't think he signs Taveras or takes the risk with Weathers if he thinks that was the end of the acquisitions. Remember he tried to get Dye and made offers to Baldelli, Burrell and Wiggington, at the very least. Those are the offers that we know about. I think there was a bigger, better plan in place, and around a month ago Cast set the budget much lower than he had promised.

That said, I really don't think it is that bad, as long as they use the money to get players midseason if they are in contention...and yes, I really do think that they can be in contention midseason...or save the money to use next year, when the next wave of good prospects is due.

mlh1981
01-31-2009, 05:33 PM
I think if people remain patient, then we will have a nice wave of prospects coming in soon, but people are sick and tired of that whole line. Understandably so. The Reds confuse me a little bit. Are we rebuilding, or going for it? We have a mismash of young guys and veterans.

The Tavares signing is a head scratcher. Why is outfield speed all that important in a bandbox such as Great American Ballpark?

flash
01-31-2009, 09:51 PM
As long as the Reds are talking to Gonzalez I don't see why they don't talk to Alou. Right handed bat that doesn't strike out a lot.

roby
02-01-2009, 06:32 PM
As long as the Reds are talking to Gonzalez I don't see why they don't talk to Alou. Right handed bat that doesn't strike out a lot.

Flash: I'm not trying to be a smart alec here, but neither of those guys are going to do much for the Reds as they stand. If they're not going to go out and get a masher...why bother?

jnwohio
02-02-2009, 12:23 AM
I agree with the folks who have said he jumped on Tavares before the market went south to fill what he saw as his biggest need with the best fit he thought he could afford; and subsequently now looks like he over paid.

Gomes is a split contract and probably even has a walk away clause that won't cost the Reds a thing if he doesn't make the team and doesn't want to cool his heels in Louisville waiting for an injury to happen in Cincy. I have no problems with that one.

I question as noted by others what is going on about Wiggington too. Maybe like Dunn reportedly is, Wiggington is desparate that nobody will pay him what they thought he would get but not desparate enough to sign for what is being offered.

And yes I also agree that Jocketty has been around the block enough times to put on a really good poker face when it suits his situation. There are all sorts of angles that could be playing out both in the free agent and trade market. When they get the Encarnacion contract settled, then they will have solid cost information which should put them in a position to do whatever it is they want to do and can afford.

Don't overlook that Weathers who signed on pretty favorable terms to the club and Encarnacion, if he does the same, could in turn become valauble trading commodites. In the case of Encarnacion, he is asking $3.7M against a club offer of $2.5M. I would think a two or three year deal with an average salary of $3.5M or less would make EE a very favorable commodity. Another way of looking at it would be that Xaiver Nady's salary for this year is about what they are probably going to end up paying for Weathers and Encarnacion this year combined. Be it for Nady directly or in other deals, if they could move those two salaries, they would be in a position to bring in Nady salary neutral which in turn would probably make his price in players required to get him cheaper (I am assuming the Reds have been asking the Yanks to send money with Nady which is leading to the Yanks wanting more talent coming their way in return).

A month to 6 weeks from now, we will probably be looking back and wondering how we missed figuring out what was really going down behind the scenes.

CesarGeronimo
02-02-2009, 01:59 PM
A month to 6 weeks from now, we will probably be looking back and wondering how we missed figuring out what was really going down behind the scenes.

I'm surprised frankly that people haven't figured out what's going down already. With the renewed emphasis on speed and manufacturing runs, the Reds are taking the popular "Retro Night" concept to its next logical step. They will soon announce that 2009 is "Retro Season." It's marketing genius. ;)

redhawk61
02-02-2009, 02:12 PM
I'm surprised frankly that people haven't figured out what's going down already. With the renewed emphasis on speed and manufacturing runs, the Reds are taking the popular "Retro Night" concept to its next logical step. They will soon announce that 2009 is "Retro Season." It's marketing genius. ;)

It's true. I saw David Weathers the other day, all ready to go, sporting his new Afro and Fu-man-chu.

texasdave
02-02-2009, 02:29 PM
If this means the return of 'Nickel Beer Night' count me in. :beerme: <---a dime's worth of beer.

wojo1025
02-03-2009, 10:20 AM
Well there goes Wiggington, he just signed with Baltimore. No numbers just yet. I'm afraid to see this, I'm sure it's going to make me sick

roby
02-03-2009, 01:17 PM
Well there goes Wiggington, he just signed with Baltimore. No numbers just yet. I'm afraid to see this, I'm sure it's going to make me sick

Yeah, good players are being signed for fringe money. WAKE UP, WALT!

DannyB
02-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Guess we will be looking at fringe players all season :bang:

CesarGeronimo
02-05-2009, 01:34 PM
And those of us who keep watching their games, following their every move and hoping for better days at last: The Lunatic Fringe

To honor us and this year's team, the city has already put together an event:

http://www.cincyfringe.com/

Captain Hook
02-05-2009, 08:29 PM
Exactly, what kind of "fringe B" do you add to a roster filled with "fringe A" guys already?!?!

CAN there be folks more "fringe" than Tavares, Hairston, & Gomes, especially when you're considering those guys as OF Starter Candidates?!?!?!
:barf:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ha HA Ha..............we just signed Jones and Ward.I guess the answer is yes there can be.

BLEEDS
02-06-2009, 06:19 PM
Ha HA Ha..............we just signed Jones and Ward.I guess the answer is yes there can be.

I stand Corrected.

However, I think those guys have a legitimate shot of being much better options in the OF than Tavares - although his contract will guarantee he starts, thus guaranteeing we royally suck (more than we already were).

I think we can still do fine and compete - as long as we get Manny Ramirez and Jake Peavy added to the 25 man.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

berryluther
02-06-2009, 11:13 PM
Talking to Jocketty
Posted by JohnFay at 1/30/2009 4:07 PM EST on Cincinnati.com

Walt Jocketty said that Reds continue to have conversations with free agents but not the kind of guys that will make headlines.

"I talked to some agents and gotten some e-mails," Jocketty said. "We're talking to some fringe guys who are trying to get into camp."

Jocketty said at this point the Reds are only talking about minor league contracts with invites to camp.

He downplayed the possibility of Luis Gonzalez being signed.

"I talked to his agent," Jocketty said. "But that was several weeks ago."

The Reds have had contact with Ty Wigginton's representative.

"I talked to his agent," Jocketty said. "They're getting close to desperate stage. But we're really only looking at bench help. I think that's the only type of guys we'll bring in -- if we do that."

One thing to keep in mind about Type A free agents: If you sign them now, you lose a draft pick. If you sign them after the June draft, there's no compensation.

"It's a possibility that you'll see guys go until then," Jocketty said.

Assistant GM Bob Miller is handling the negotiations with Edwin Encarnacion. "He hasn't talked to (Encarnacion's) agent in a few days," Jocketty said. "I still think we'll settle, but it will probably happen closer to the hearing date."

This roster is filled with fringe guys. We have turned into the KC Royals. Thank you Jim Bowden