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Mario-Rijo
01-30-2009, 07:20 PM
Pretty neat idea that I thought we might get a good discussion going on. Take the discussion in any direction you like but maybe put together a lineup of Bengals HOF's. Leave a position blank if you don't feel they have a HOF in that spot. Either way you can vote for it on Bengals.com starting Monday.


Bengals.com Virtual Hall of Fame
By GEOFF HOBSON
January 30, 2009

Fans will vote three new members to the brand new Bengals.com Hall of Fame. Voting begins Monday, February 2. Check back to bengals.com to cast your vote.

Sick of watching Ken Anderson get sacked in obscurity?

Tired of Isaac Curtis bumped and runned into anonymity?

Enraged that Ken "The Rattler" Riley remains snakebit despite the stats?

Then the Bengals.com Virtual Hall of Fame is for you.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame selection committee holds its annual meeting in Tampa Saturday, but two of the greatest names in Bengaldom are officially shut out and have to rely on the senior committee.

Riley, the 15-year cornerback who has the fifth most interceptions in NFL history with 65, ran out of elections last year in his 25th year of retirement. Curtis, the man Anderson once called "Jerry Rice before Jerry Rice," saw his eligibility end this year.

Now Anderson, the Bengals all-time leading passer who retired in 1986, has just two more years before he too gets filed into the senior category.

It has long been a sore point in and outside of Paul Brown Stadium.

Anderson is the only quarterback eligible who has at least three NFL passing titles not in the Hall. Everyone ahead of Riley on the all-time interception list is in the Hall with Rod Woodson and his 71 picks expected to be voted in Saturday. Curtis caught more balls than Lynn Swann while averaging more yards per catch than John Stallworth, and yet that Steelers tandem is in the Hall.

But Bengaldom now has a haven where its greatest players can get honored. While supporters of Riley and Curtis try to make inroads with the senior committee members and the Anderson contingent can keep working on the 40-member selection committee, now there is a place where every Bengal gets a fair hearing and where every fan gets a vote.

It is the cyberspace cross streets of PB Place and Munoz Way. It is the Bengals.com Virtual Hall of Fame and we're beginning the process on Monday that culminates in the induction of the inaugural class in June.

It will be a class of five with franchise founder Paul Brown and left tackle Anthony Munoz already in because of their Pro Football Hall exemptions. The remaining three Hall of Famers are going to come out of two separate fan votes on the web site.

Starting on Monday and ending Feb. 28, fans can vote for 10 of 32 names that are multiple Pro Bowl players, career record-holders or Super Bowl head coaches, or five at-large selections.

The 10 finalists advance to another fan vote to be held for a month starting in April. The three finalists from that group join Brown and Munoz in the inaugural class to be unveiled after the Bengals' last June camp.

To be eligible, a player must have been with the Bengals for at least a season and been retired from the NFL for five years. Coaches may be active but can no longer be with the team.

Once the class is introduced, fans can click on each player's Cooperstown-like plaque for his induction speech, highlights, and career stats. Three new members will be inducted each year.

If Canton won't call, Bengaldom will.

In the last year, three-time Pro Bowl quarterback Boomer Esiason has been banging the drum for Anderson and he's discouraged that the Bengals' great players get no love on the national stage. Not only is it a byproduct of their two Super Bowl losses, he believes, but also a direct result of the Bengals' struggles the past two decades.

Take Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner.

Since he's in Sunday's Super Bowl, Warner is all the rage. He's considered a Hall lock if Arizona wins and some say he's in either way.

And he does have the resume.

According to USA Today, Warner's career completion percentage of 65.4 is second all-time. His career passer rating of 93.8 is bettered by Hall of Famer Steve Young, Peyton Manning (a sure-shot first-ballot Hall of Famer) and Tony Romo. Warner's 48 300-yard passing games is the fifth most after Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Dan Fouts and Warren Moon. Marino, Fouts and Moon are in and Favre will be.

But what about a guy like Anderson that has waited 23 years?

No, he didn't win a ring. But he has the best completion percentage in the postseason of any passer with at least 150 throws.

Plus, of the 25 quarterbacks in the Hall, only 13 have career passer ratings greater than 80. Only eight of them have a better one than Anderson's 81.9 rating. Of the 25, he has thrown more touchdowns than 14 of them and his completion percentage of 59.3 is better than 17 of them.

And of the nine men that have won three NFL passing titles or more, Anderson is the only one not in the Hall. Manning has three and is a lock. Young and Sammy Baugh have six while Anderson, Len Dawson and Roger Staubach have four. Manning, Bart Starr, Norm Van Brocklin and Arnie Herber have three.

Earlier this week, Anderson shrugged off the Hall questions. After 23 years, he has moved on. But Bengals president Mike Brown is in his corner.

"Kenny always had top statistics, year in and year out. They are better than most of the quarterbacks in the Hall of Fame and I don't know why he should be left out," Brown said.

Certainly not because of the fraudulent dinker-and-dunker tag. His 7.34 yards per throw is the same as Marino's.

But there is refuge. The first Bengals.com Virtual Hall ballot ranges from the club's record book giants such as Anderson, Riley, Curtis, and six-time Pro Bowl cornerback Lemar Parrish, to Esiason, a NFL MVP and symbol of the second Super Bowl team, to the first player the Bengals drafted in Bob Johnson, to cult hero Tim Krumrie.

Brown has seen them all. He scouted and recommended Anderson. He couldn't find a guy to replace Riley until he had played in a club-record 207 games. He watched Curtis make one-handed touchdown grabs on sideline bombs with each hand in the same game.

Ask Brown about another player on the ballot, guard Max Montoya, and he would say he compares with another guard on this year's Pro Football ballot, Miami's Bob Kuechenberg.

"It really depends on the era you're in," Brown says.

But Curtis, with an average of 17.1 yards per his 416 catches, runs through any era with speed that nearly qualified him for the 1972 U.S. Olympic team.

"Isaac had unique talents as a wide receiver," Brown says. "He was as fast as any wide receiver we ever had here and he was an amazing catch of the ball. In my mind, if I was picking a team, I would take him ahead of (Swann and Stallworth). The Steelers had wonderful players and their teams had great success, but I would challenge that they were better than Isaac as a player.

"Look at what Kenny Riley did and he has more interceptions than just about anybody that played NFL football. And he was a reliable player. You put him on one side and you never had to worry."

Brown isn't the only guy scratching his head two years ago when old-time Cardinals cornerback Roger Wehrli was elected on his last try. Like Riley, Wehrli came into the NFL in 1969 but he played one fewer season, picked off 25 fewer passes and returned three fewer touchdowns.

"I really can't believe that he's up for a vote," Riley told Bengals.com back in 2007. "This is nothing against Roger Wehrli because he was a very good player. But his stats and my stats aren't even close. It makes no sense."

Brown thinks the voting is too heavily slanted to Super Bowl winners.

"I do acknowledge that Pittsburgh, for example, was a wonderfully successful team and that's part of the charm for their guys. That boosts them in their path to the Hall of Fame," Brown says.

"(But) the selection process is biased toward the top teams. And maybe it should be. But there is that bias. You have a hard time convincing me that there are some teams no matter how successful that have six to 10 Hall of Fame players and we have only one (Munoz)."

But beginning Monday we take you to a Hall where everyone is a Bengal.

Danny Serafini
01-31-2009, 12:20 AM
There's no doubt the older Bengals are being penalized because the stench of failure emanating from the modern Bengals has been attached to them unfairly. Plus there's the HOF's overdependence on Super Bowl wins. That obviously should count for something, but it's gotten to the point where if you haven't won a Super Bowl you're nothing. There are a lot of amazing players who never won a title, and a lot of crummy ones who have. They really need to get past this issue.

In keeping with the rules of bengals.com (three nominees will join Anthony Munoz and Paul Brown in the class) I'll go with Ken Anderson and Ken Riley, the guys getting hosed the worst by the Pro Football HOF. For the third spot I'll take James Brooks. He went over 5 yards per carry 4 times in 8 years as a Bengal, and also went over 10 yards a catch 4 times (with another year at 9.9), pretty darn good for a RB.

Mario-Rijo
01-31-2009, 05:15 AM
There's no doubt the older Bengals are being penalized because the stench of failure emanating from the modern Bengals has been attached to them unfairly. Plus there's the HOF's overdependence on Super Bowl wins. That obviously should count for something, but it's gotten to the point where if you haven't won a Super Bowl you're nothing. There are a lot of amazing players who never won a title, and a lot of crummy ones who have. They really need to get past this issue.

In keeping with the rules of bengals.com (three nominees will join Anthony Munoz and Paul Brown in the class) I'll go with Ken Anderson and Ken Riley, the guys getting hosed the worst by the Pro Football HOF. For the third spot I'll take James Brooks. He went over 5 yards per carry 4 times in 8 years as a Bengal, and also went over 10 yards a catch 4 times (with another year at 9.9), pretty darn good for a RB.

I know they make a good case for Anderson and I think he was a very good QB but just not sure he is HOF worthy. I think he could have started for anyone but wouldn't have played at that level in just any system. He was a perfect match to that offense and the likely reason he's been overlooked to this point.

I do however agree with Riley for sure and I like Curtis just not sure he hung around long enough to warrant serious consideration to the Pro FB HOF. But all are definite Bengals HOF's as is Bob Johnson an outstanding Center. I also thought about Boomer, Big Willie (eventually), Bob Trumpy and Rodney Holman.

clueless
01-31-2009, 11:51 AM
I think he could have started for anyone but wouldn't have played at that level in just any system. He was a perfect match to that offense and the likely reason he's been overlooked to this point.



Kinda like Joe Montana? Except for the overlooked part.

Mario-Rijo
01-31-2009, 03:51 PM
Kinda like Joe Montana? Except for the overlooked part.

Yeah similiar except for the fact that Joe had a longer and more distinguished career.

Yachtzee
01-31-2009, 04:42 PM
I think the Bengals need to implement a "Ring of Honor" so that visiting media will remember these guys every time they visit the stadium. The media likes to pick on the Bengals. It would be nice if they could be reminded of some of the great players who wore the Bengals jersey.

RichRed
02-02-2009, 10:48 AM
A non-Bengals fan's perspective here: I think you could make a case for or against all those guys except Ken Riley. He should definitely be in the HOF.

icehole3
02-02-2009, 04:39 PM
Who are your top 10 HOF Bengals in order? Here's mine.

Anderson
Esiason
Wyche
Brooks
Curtis
Gregg
Krumrie
Reid
Bergey
Collinsworth

Yachtzee
02-02-2009, 10:02 PM
Paul Brown
Anthony Munoz
Ken Riley
Kenny Anderson
Bob Johnson
Boomer Esiason
David Fulcher
Isaac Curtis
James Brooks
Tim Krumrie

icehole3
02-03-2009, 04:33 AM
I dont they included PB and Munoz because theyre already in the HOF

Yachtzee
02-03-2009, 09:58 AM
I dont they included PB and Munoz because theyre already in the HOF

Sorry. Misunderstood your question. I thought you might be talking about if the Bengals created their own Hall of Fame, who would be the top 10 members. However, it might be interesting to note that Paul Brown was selected for the HOF as coach for the Browns before the Bengals' first season. Thus there is no mention of the Bengals on his HOF web page, http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=34, and if you go to the HOF, he is not shown as a Bengals Hall of Famer in the interactive Hall of Fame Busts exhibit.

Hoosier Red
02-03-2009, 04:11 PM
Riley
Curtis
Anderson

in that order.

redsfandan
02-06-2009, 01:43 PM
Once the class is introduced, fans can click on each player's Cooperstown-like plaque for his induction speech, highlights, and career stats. Three new members will be inducted each year.
Eventually they'll have to reach on some players or coaches to maintain that annual quota.

RichRed
02-06-2009, 02:12 PM
Eventually they'll have to reach on some players or coaches to maintain that annual quota.

Class of 2017: David Verser, Larry Kinnebrew and Turk Schonert!!!

dsmith421
02-06-2009, 02:54 PM
Has Mike figured out how to charge admission to this yet?

Tony Cloninger
02-08-2009, 07:18 PM
Why do people forget Lemar Parrish?

7 times a Pro Bowler with the bengals..... twice with the Redskins...that is about more Pro Bowls for someone not in the HOF.

Deon Sanders before Sanders.....just played in an era with less media and in a city where you are basically ignored.

The guy scored about 9 TD's....with INT returns....fumble returns....led the NFL in punt return average in 1974 with 18.8. Scored 2 TD's in a game twice.
One was with a punt return and a fumble return against Washington in 1974.

The guy is not even considered? Heck everyone left him off their Bengals HOF list. He is right up there with Anderson and Riley.

Mario-Rijo
02-08-2009, 10:41 PM
Why do people forget Lemar Parrish?

7 times a Pro Bowler with the bengals..... twice with the Redskins...that is about more Pro Bowls for someone not in the HOF.

Deon Sanders before Sanders.....just played in an era with less media and in a city where you are basically ignored.

The guy scored about 9 TD's....with INT returns....fumble returns....led the NFL in punt return average in 1974 with 18.8. Scored 2 TD's in a game twice.
One was with a punt return and a fumble return against Washington in 1974.

The guy is not even considered? Heck everyone left him off their Bengals HOF list. He is right up there with Anderson and Riley.

I didn't forget him. He'd be high on my list, a no brainer.

Yachtzee
02-08-2009, 11:27 PM
Why do people forget Lemar Parrish?

7 times a Pro Bowler with the bengals..... twice with the Redskins...that is about more Pro Bowls for someone not in the HOF.

Deon Sanders before Sanders.....just played in an era with less media and in a city where you are basically ignored.

The guy scored about 9 TD's....with INT returns....fumble returns....led the NFL in punt return average in 1974 with 18.8. Scored 2 TD's in a game twice.
One was with a punt return and a fumble return against Washington in 1974.

The guy is not even considered? Heck everyone left him off their Bengals HOF list. He is right up there with Anderson and Riley.

I would put him in the Bengals HOF. I limited my list to 10, included Paul Brown and Anthony Munoz, and tried to balance out positions so it wasn't too heavily weighted. There have been quite a few great Bengals. I think the Bengals should definitely push for his hall candidacy, but right now I think Riley and Anderson are the bigger slights.