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improbus
02-01-2009, 08:23 PM
Did anyone else catch the final? It started at 3:30 AM, I woke up at 6:30 and caught the last set and a half. I have to say, I am totally back into tennis because of these two. I haven't seen shot making like this in a long time and Feds and Nadal never disappoint. There are so many layers to their rivalry:
-the different surfaces
-the different styles
-the fact that Federer needs one more title to tie Sampras and he wants it desperately.
-the different personalities
It is VERY reminiscent of Borg (efficient all court master) v. Johnny Mac (petulant young lefty).

remdog
02-01-2009, 08:32 PM
Yep. Went to bed at 8:00 PM and set the alarm for 12:30 AM(PST). Got up and watched the match.

Very good match but disappointing to me was how Federer really didn't put up a fight in the 5th set.

Did the same sleep routine for the Nadel/Verdasco match (I'm seriously sleep deprived this weekend). That, to me was the match of the tourney. Great play, both guys going all out, 5 hrs, 14 minutes. Incrediable.

Gotta' give Rafa credit; didn't think he could bounce back in one day after having to gut it out against Fernando.

Rem

improbus
02-01-2009, 08:38 PM
Federer kind of reminds me of Peyton Manning. He is the supreme talent and the ultimate cerebral player, but when things don't go his way, he gets this pathetic look that Bill Simmons calls the "Manning Face".

remdog
02-01-2009, 09:03 PM
I find Federer interesting in that he has, IMO, the best all around game in tennis. Yet, there is a rock in his path called Rafa Nadal. He seems not to make adjustments to go around that rock. The commentators last night mentioned that Roger was not making adjustments to the game Rafa plays. I agree.

Having said that I think that match last night (or the Nadal/Verdasco match) shows what a physical sport tennis is. Not to dump on other sports but, besides basketball or football, where does one player spend 4-5 hours continually running side to side, up and back and throwing punches with every swing of the racquet. Great athleticism. The amount of physical effort, especially in the heat of Melbourne, is tremendous.

The rivalry between Nadal and Federer is fantastic. In fact, I could see a scenario where Federer brakes Pete Samparas' Grand Slam record and then Rafa (being 5 years younger) breaks Rodger's record.

Rem

improbus
02-01-2009, 09:44 PM
To me, it's the most interesting rivalry/matchup in sports

remdog
02-01-2009, 09:52 PM
To me, it's the most interesting rivalry/matchup in sports

In terms of personal matchups, I couldn't agree more.

Rem

improbus
02-01-2009, 10:32 PM
In terms of personal matchups, I couldn't agree more.

Rem
I hope to see them in Roland Garros in a few months.

Newport Red
02-01-2009, 10:46 PM
Federer kind of reminds me of Peyton Manning. He is the supreme talent and the ultimate cerebral player, but when things don't go his way, he gets this pathetic look that Bill Simmons calls the "Manning Face".

I didn't see the Australian Open. Federer did gut it through last year's US Open though. He didn't have his A game until the final. Then wow.

I haven't gotten into tennis the last few years until the US Open. Too bad I'm seeing Federer at the back end of his career.

remdog
02-01-2009, 11:05 PM
I hope to see them in Roland Garros in a few months.

Clay is Nadal's 'home court' but, if Federer can pull out a win there, it would totally change the dynamic of their rivalry.

Rem

remdog
02-01-2009, 11:14 PM
I didn't see the Australian Open. Federer did gut it through last year's US Open though. He didn't have his A game until the final. Then wow.

I haven't gotten into tennis the last few years until the US Open. Too bad I'm seeing Federer at the back end of his career.

I'm not so sure that it's so much as Roger being at the 'back end' of his career as much as all of the 'young lions' chasing him.

I will say that Nadal seems to have his number at this point but, if Roger makes the right adjustments, he can combat that much as Aggasi created problems for Sampras late in Pete's career. Djovick and Murray are also contenenders but leave a lot unproven at this point. They are dangerous, however.

Verdasco was the 'break through' player of this tourney but he's already 25 years old so the question is not just if he can sustain his game from the Aussie but build upon it.

All in all, an interesting time in men's tennis, IMO.

Rem

Dom Heffner
02-02-2009, 12:09 AM
Rafa has figured Roger out. To make the gains on surfaces other than clay is a true feat.

I guess it's inevitable that Federer will eventually win more finals to surpass Sampras, but the competition is getting much better in tennis, which will make it a little tougher to do so.

I'm going to get tarred and feathered for saying this, but Federer played nobody for 3 or 4 years there.

As much as I dislike Pete Sampras, he played in an age of some pretty tough competition- even though he somewhat dominated, on any given day there were players who could beat him.

I'm always surprised at the fact that tennis is not watched more in the U.S. There isn't a more demanding sport, and the things these guys can do with a tennis racket is nothing but amazing.

bucksfan2
02-02-2009, 09:41 AM
Rafa has figured Roger out. To make the gains on surfaces other than clay is a true feat.

I guess it's inevitable that Federer will eventually win more finals to surpass Sampras, but the competition is getting much better in tennis, which will make it a little tougher to do so.

I'm going to get tarred and feathered for saying this, but Federer played nobody for 3 or 4 years there.

As much as I dislike Pete Sampras, he played in an age of some pretty tough competition- even though he somewhat dominated, on any given day there were players who could beat him.

I'm always surprised at the fact that tennis is not watched more in the U.S. There isn't a more demanding sport, and the things these guys can do with a tennis racket is nothing but amazing.

Federer is one of the greatest, if not the greatest tennis player of all time. It has taken Nadal quite a few years to catch up to Federer on all surfaces. Some has been Nadal getting better but some also has to do with Federer aging.

IMO the reason Americans haven't adapted tennis more is because there isn't a great American player. Roddick is a bum. The guy has more excuses for poor play than anyone I know. He seems more content to be the player and celebrity he is right now. If a dynamic American isn't at the top of Tennis Americans won't be compelled to watch the sport.

Dom Heffner
02-02-2009, 11:24 AM
Federer is one of the greatest, if not the greatest tennis player of all time.

I want to go there with you, but who has he beaten?

It would be nice to say that someone was so much better than everryone else that he's the greatest, but if Federer wasn't around, who would have dominated? Roddick?

remdog
02-02-2009, 02:01 PM
I've been playing/watching tennis for more than 35 years (my knees and ankles remind me about that everyday :) ). I only saw Laver towards the end of his career and he was great then as well. If the sport had been open then and Rod had been able to play once he went pro he would be the one with all of the records.

My favorite all-time player is Bjorn Borg. What a solid game and I loved that you could never tell if he was winning or losing----a great weapon vis a vie wearing down your opponent, IMO.

For most Americans, the peak of men's tennis was the foursome of Sampras, Aggasi, Courrier and Chang---four guys that came up together and pretty much dominated tennis as a whole for years. Yet, Americans didn't watch that much more tennis then than they do now.

I think that Aggasi has been the favorite tennis player for most Americans over the last 25 years because he had both personallity as well as ability. Plus, he 're-invented' himself later in his career and had great success.

Tennis is one of those games that, if you haven't tried it, you don't really know how hard it is. Most guys play some baseball, football, basketball as kids. Even if it's just Little League, you've experienced what it takes. I don't think that's true of tennis, although I do think that's changeing.

These guys play 4 hr + matches and leave their guts on the court---sometimes litterally. They have body cramps, twisted ankles, torn ligaments and shoulders that cry out in pain. On the pro level this is not some cute country club sport---it's a major physical test.

Equipment has also changed the game. Almost no one 'serves and volleys' anymore. New racquet technology has made groundstrokes a major weapon with the speed these guys can hit the ball. In the early 80's a guy I played with developed the first battery powered ball machine. As part of his business plan they tracked the speed of balls on groundstrokes. It averaged 55 mph on the pro tour. Yesterday many of the ground strokes were in the 80-90 mph range. And even though the serves have also gotten bigger, the ability to strike the ball cleanly with these new racquets has partnered with the speed to make coming in behind a serve a tough play.

I agree that Roddick has been a disappointment. But people look at that serve and think he should win easily. Refer to my point above. The problem with Roddick is that the rest of his game, while solid, isn't exceptional, unlike the guys above him that he consistently loses to. He's either going to have to improve the rest of his game (which I don't think he can do), his fitness (which he reportedly did this winter but it didn't help against Federer) or he's going to have to change his tactics (like take a chance and be the only true serve and volley guy out there).

Rem

bucksfan2
02-02-2009, 02:53 PM
I want to go there with you, but who has he beaten?

It would be nice to say that someone was so much better than everryone else that he's the greatest, but if Federer wasn't around, who would have dominated? Roddick?

Is there a "who has he beaten" question because of the talent out there or because of Federer's actual dominance? Its the same thing with Woods. Is he dominant because a watered down playing field or just because he is much better than the rest? Would Roddick be considered a better player had he won 4 majors? How many more majors would Roddick have it it weren't for Federer? You can ask the same question with Nadal.

bucksfan
02-02-2009, 04:49 PM
I am really enjoying their rivalry also. My wife has renewed her interest in tennis over the past 2 years, and I have hit around with her in the parks in the summer and really enjoyed it. We watched the last 2 sets men's finals after the Super Bowl.

This December a new tennis facility popped up within 1/4 mile of our house! We joined that month and my wife and I are in a mixed doubles league already! This will be quite interesting because I have never before played any official tennis match of any variety, but have of course played "pickup tennis" (is that what it's called? :) ) in parks off and on over the years! In a drill at the new facility they said athleticism should get me by until my skills catch up - I'm still trying to figure out if that was a backhanded compliment, if any at all!

But regardless, I am having fun with it as a substitute for basketball. I just have not been able to play basketball at what I consider an acceptable level for the past several years. I don't mind starting fresh (at a low level) in tennis. Tennis is also something that my wife and I can do together for a long time to come, providing she puts up with me in this first adventure! ;) Our daughter is taking a clinic now also and is enjoying it. It may become our family sport...we'll see....

AccordinglyReds
02-02-2009, 05:09 PM
I stayed up for the first 3 sets, and right before 6am, the power goes out. :(

After all that, I couldn't watch the rest due to the ice havoc in Louisville. But I watched the rest yesterday. :)

remdog
02-02-2009, 10:43 PM
Tennis is also something that my wife and I can do together for a long time to come, providing she puts up with me in this first adventure! ;) Our daughter is taking a clinic now also and is enjoying it. It may become our family sport...we'll see....

Tennis is a great game for the family. I've been a member at my current club for more than a dozen years and it's been interesting to watch the 6, 8 and 10 year olds that Dad used to take out on a back court and hit balls to become 18, 20 and 22 year olds that blow serves by Dad on a regular basis. :) On court, Dad hates it but up in the bar he spends a lot of time bragging about the kids. A lot of those kids I've watched grow up have gone on and played tennis in college, many on scholarships, and every summer they come home and there's the whole family down at the club, together again. It's great to see.

Personally, I preferr doubles (men's or MxD) because it's still a game that you can serve and volley. I'm pretty aggressive by nature and, for me, there is nothing better than 4 people at the net, 10 feet apart, trying to drill the opponent. :D

MxD with a husband and wife team seems to come in two styles. You make a great team or it ruins your marriage. (I only kid slightly ;).) I've seen couples that are totally on the same page and are extra tough 'cause they think together as well as alike and they play (win or lose) as a team. Then there are couples that fight each other to see who's going to be the Alpha dog---those folks need to stop playing doubles together before it carries over into other areas (or, maybe, it comes from those other areas in the first place ;)).

Rem

remdog
02-02-2009, 11:01 PM
Oh yeah Bucksfan, one other thing. Just because you're playing MxD don't think that the lady on the other side will be sweet and kind. My experience is that they would rather leave the 'Wilson' imprint on your forehead than lose the point. Then, they'll hold up the racquet like they're sorry but you can hear them laughing all the way back to the baseline.

Protect youself at all times. :lol:

Rem

bucksfan
02-03-2009, 08:45 AM
Oh yeah Bucksfan, one other thing. Just because you're playing MxD don't think that the lady on the other side will be sweet and kind. My experience is that they would rather leave the 'Wilson' imprint on your forehead than lose the point. Then, they'll hold up the racquet like they're sorry but you can hear them laughing all the way back to the baseline.

Protect youself at all times. :lol:

Rem

Thanks for the words, rem. I have heard that about the ladies! ;) Actually the owner of the tennis club was talking to me and told me something to the effect of "You may think you should hit it softer to the women in mixed, but don't do it..." - I stopped him right there and said "I have no formal tennis training. Some of these ladies practuically live here. I had no notion whatsoever of "taking it easy" on them!" :D I actually am assuming that most of them, if not all, will be better than I am so I will take anything I get no matter how I can get it!

As for playing mixed doubles together, we have been warned about that also. We do get along well but honestly have not undertaken being partners in this kind of event. I come from a more athletic background than she does, but she is taking her tennis quite seriously and has worked hard at her game the past 2 years. We want to be competitive (there's that dreaded redszone phrase!) but our focus is on engaging in sport like this "together" and hopefully having some fun with it. I have no intention of letting it be a problem between us although I am sure it won't be completely smooth.

There is another couple on our team (younger friends of ours) that is more worried about conflict between themselves than we are, so we may be switching off & on regardless. Actually my wife was his partner 2 weeks ago in the 1st match of the year because I had a bad knee (since drained of fliud and now near 90%!!) and his wife was ill. My wife & I still have not set foot on a court as a doubles team :eek: but plan to get some practice in Wednesday. It's obviously a lower level league (6.0) but I am looking forward to it. I think it will give us somethign healthy to do together and somethign to talk about (or argue about!) at the bar afterwards!! I'll let you know how Wednesday practice goes!

remdog
02-03-2009, 10:33 AM
I'll look forward to your report Bucksfan.

Practice at this point should be all about getting used to each other on court, who plays where, learning your partner's strengths and weaknesses so that you can each help each other the most but most importantly at the club level, no matter what level you play, it should be about having fun.

If you miss playing basketball I think you will enjoy tennis. Most former b'ball players turn into pretty decent tennis players because they have decent hand/eye co-ordination and they are used to the footwork part of the game (once they learn the specifics of the sport).

Have a great time.

Rem

bucksfan
02-04-2009, 10:33 PM
Just an update on my tennis saga - our first ever practice match as a doubles team actually went pretty well. My knee felt about 80% bbut it was enough. Lots of stupid missed shots on my part that I think certainly won't happen after some weeks of playign consistently. We communicated OK for the 1st time but can certainly improve a lot. My serve was alright. The couple we played were not very strong so it was tough to tell. I told my wife we should beat someone like that at least 9 out of 10 times. But now the team captain wants us tom play 1st doubles on Sunday, so we'll probably get ours then!

My biggest issues are feeling like I'm in the right place on the court at the right time and keeping my eye on the ball during quick volleys. I think I am looking at the other team's positioning too much some times.

remdog
02-05-2009, 12:54 AM
My biggest issues are feeling like I'm in the right place on the court at the right time and keeping my eye on the ball during quick volleys. I think I am looking at the other team's positioning too much some times.

Sounds like a good start. Your positioning will improve with experience as you learn to read the angles and shots (somewhat like learning to read a fly ball and taking the best route). And the more you and wife play together the better the communication will improve (both verbal and unsaid communication).

Good luck Saturday.

Rem

bucksfan
02-05-2009, 01:32 PM
Sounds like a good start. Your positioning will improve with experience as you learn to read the angles and shots (somewhat like learning to read a fly ball and taking the best route). And the more you and wife play together the better the communication will improve (both verbal and unsaid communication).

Good luck Saturday.

Rem

Thanks rem. I really am just enjoying being out there and doing something like that together. We played 1 1/2 hrs and the time flew by. I would have easily wanted to go another hour. We did not argue at all, which I think will generally be the case forward. I have no idea of the competition we'll be up against, especially iof we get stuck at 1st doubles (which to me may be a mistake but I will not argue about it).