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thatcoolguy_22
02-17-2009, 03:18 PM
Things I'm told
The Reds avoided arbitration and reached agreement on a two year deal with Edwin Encarnacion this morning.
Edwin made $450,000 in 2008. He had requested 3.7 mill in arbitration. The Reds had offered 2.55 mill.
Total deal: $7,600,506
2009: $2,000,000
2010: $4,750,000
Signing bonus - $850,000, payable between March 2009 and November 2009.
Plus: $25,000 for 600 plate appearances
Plus: $25,000 for All Star; $50,000 for LCS/MVP;
$100,000 for WS/MVP; $50,000 for Gold Glove; $50,000 for Silver Slugger.
Edwin will donate 1% of base salaries and signing bonus to Reds Community Fund.

http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html


I like this deal a lot. Reasonable rate for an .800 OPS 3B.

Grounds_Crew
02-17-2009, 03:34 PM
I like!

mroby85
02-17-2009, 03:34 PM
The good news is they won't have to pay any of the signing bonuses unless he gets 600 AB's.

thatcoolguy_22
02-17-2009, 03:46 PM
The good news is they won't have to pay any of the signing bonuses unless he gets 600 AB's.

EE receives the bonus regardless of performance. He will pick up a 25,000$ bonus for 600 PA

swaisuc
02-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Makes a lot of sense for both sides. Glad to have Edwin back in the mix.:thumbup:

Jerome
02-17-2009, 04:30 PM
Excellent. Now we can focus on other things, like pondering Willy Taveras or the left field vacancy. EE deserves the money. What's more hilarious 1) a $50,000 Gold Glove bonus or 2) a $100,000 bonus for World Series MVP?

http://www.jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

mroby85
02-17-2009, 04:39 PM
Excellent. Now we can focus on other things, like pondering Willy Taveras or the left field vacancy. EE deserves the money. What's more hilarious 1) a $50,000 Gold Glove bonus or 2) a $100,000 bonus for World Series MVP?

http://www.jeromesredscare.blogspot.com
lol i know, those were the bonuses i was talking about, i accidentally typed
signing bonus.

Rusty the Red
02-17-2009, 04:42 PM
Sounds reasonable.

BLEEDS
02-17-2009, 06:31 PM
It's fine for this year - next year is the problem. We're set for the following salaries in 2010:

BP 6.75
EE 4.75
Tavares 4
Harang 12.5
Arroyo 11.0
Cordero 12.0
Gonzo 6.0 (option, more likely Gonzo is Gone-zo)

That's a lot of jack - $51M not counting Gonzo - for 6 guys of a 25 man roster. None of them are superstars, mostly high-risk low-reward.

Luckily we have Votto (who should be arb eligible) and Bruce (should not be) who should be cheap yet productive, otherwise we are looking at rookies to fill out out the rest of the roster (with Lincoln and Rhodes totalling $4.5M) - to give us an ~$70M roster - with the SAME issues of no SS and C, and Wily Tavares the "answer" in CF.

Plus, we'll have Votto, Volquez, and Cueto - and possibly Owings, Keppinger, Burton and/or Bray - eligible for arbitration....

Excuse me, while I kiss the sky - and puke in my mouth!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

TheBigLebowski
02-17-2009, 06:56 PM
Good deal. I think this will be EE's breakout campaign.

reds1869
02-17-2009, 07:22 PM
I like it. I was afraid the number would be much bigger. I'm pulling for the kid and really hope he busts out in a big way this summer.

NarrowStairs
02-17-2009, 08:08 PM
I'm sick of having this ugly crybaby manning third base.

Baseball is a business, too.

You sign MARKETABLE players.

- No ugly faces.
- No ugly names (Wigginton, Encarnacion, Edwin, Gomes)
- Good ball players

RED VAN HOT
02-17-2009, 08:08 PM
There have been a number of posts in the org concerning the implications of this deal with respect to minor league 3B candidates.

My read is that the Reds are not confident that any of these candidates will be ready in 2010. The two year deal for EE provides a measure of safety. Should someone develop into a can't miss prospect during this year, EE's 2010 salary would not preclude dealing him for a one year rental to fill a hole elsewhere.

On the other hand, limiting EE's contract to two years may indicate a belief that one of these candidates is likely to be ready by 2011.

I think it is a good signing that provides an affordable, acceptable hedge against some of the prospects failing to measure up to our lofty Redszone expectations.

gedred69
02-17-2009, 08:09 PM
This is the year for EE to prove he's not another DD, (Danny Driessen). DD had unbelievable athleticism, but jello for brains. I sincerely hope EE has some sense to go with his talent, but thus far he hasn't shown it.

DannyB
02-18-2009, 12:40 AM
If he makes any of those incentives the second year will be cheap.

CRedsLarkin11
02-18-2009, 01:36 AM
All of the upcoming talent is definitely a good problem to have. People have been saying it for a couple of years now but this season truly is the year Edwin has to step up or he won't be with the Reds very much longer. If he does, great, helps our chances the next couple years and at that salary no big deal but if he doesn't, there is help on the way and you can ship him somewhere else. Good job Walt and Co.

ChatterRed
02-18-2009, 02:00 AM
I wonder if I can get a bailout from EE?

NarrowStairs
02-18-2009, 03:09 AM
He doesn't run out pop ups. He can't throw to first base consistently.

freestyle55
02-18-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm sick of having this ugly crybaby manning third base.

Baseball is a business, too.

You sign MARKETABLE players.

- No ugly faces.
- No ugly names (Wigginton, Encarnacion, Edwin, Gomes)
- Good ball players

Wow, we've got an early clubhouse leader for stupidest post of the year...

freestyle55
02-18-2009, 10:06 AM
Edwin Encarnacion is an ugly crybaby with braces. He can't speak English. He doesn't run out pop ups. He can't throw to first base consistently. He is ugly as death. I could hit him in the face with a brick and he wold look better than he does now. I will deport him.

Whoops, spoke too soon, new leader!

redsfandan
02-18-2009, 10:46 AM
There have been a number of posts in the org concerning the implications of this deal with respect to minor league 3B candidates.

My read is that the Reds are not confident that any of these candidates will be ready in
2010. The two year deal for EE provides a measure of safety. Should someone develop into a can't miss prospect during this year, EE's 2010 salary would not preclude dealing him for a one year rental to fill a hole elsewhere.

On the other hand, limiting EE's contract to two years may indicate a belief that one of
these candidates is likely to be ready by 2011. I think it is a good signing that provides an affordable, acceptable hedge against some of the prospects failing to measure up to our lofty Redszone expectations.

My first reaction was surprise since I expected another one year deal. My second thought was 'why a 2nd year?'. My third thought was 'wait a minute, 2 years for only that much??' Hell I bet if EE had gone ahead with the arbitration hearing this year and again next year he would've ended up making more. I like this ALOT if this is true. Like you I think this will provide an excellent hedge against the chance the prospects won't be ready and at a very reasonable price. Not only does this provide insurance at 3rd in 2010 but this could also enhance his trade value especially if he improves at all this year. Worst case we'll just let him walk and collect a sandwich pick in the 2011 draft. This is a very smart move imo.

redsfandan
02-18-2009, 10:52 AM
It's fine for this year - next year is the problem. We're set for the following salaries in 2010:

BP 6.75
EE 4.75
Tavares 4
Harang 12.5
Arroyo 11.0
Cordero 12.0
Gonzo 6.0 (option, more likely Gonzo is Gone-zo)

That's a lot of jack - $51M not counting Gonzo - for 6 guys of a 25 man roster. None of
them are superstars, mostly high-risk low-reward.

Luckily we have Votto (who should be arb eligible) and Bruce (should not be) who should be cheap yet productive, otherwise we are looking at rookies to fill out out the rest of the roster (with Lincoln and Rhodes totalling $4.5M) - to give us an ~$70M roster - with the SAME issues of no SS and C, and Wily Tavares the "answer" in CF.

Plus, we'll have Votto, Volquez, and Cueto - and possibly Owings, Keppinger, Burton and/or Bray - eligible for arbitration....

Excuse me, while I kiss the sky - and puke in my mouth!


Of the ones you mentioned Burton, Hopper, Kepp, Owings & probably Bray (not positive about him) are the only ones who will be arbitation eligible before 2011. Gonzo will be gone. Weathers and Hernandez will also be gone. Most importantly, the emergence of the young pitchers could make Arroyo expendable before 2010. (If Volquez, Harang, and Cueto become the #1-3 starting pitchers as expected Arroyo will be a very expensive #4. Throw in Owings, Ramirez, Thompson, etc and I see another salary dump possible just like Jr & Dunn)

In 2011 BP could be the only player with a big contract left.

BP $11M in 2011 with $12M club option for 2012 with a $1M buyout
EE unless he takes a big step forward offensively and defensively he'll likely be gone
Tavares should be gone
Harang 2011 club option for $12.775m with $2M buyout
Arroyo 2011 club option for $11m with $2m buyout but likely gone
Cordero $12m in 2011 with $12M club option for 2012 with a $1M buyout but could also be dealt in a salary dump as well. His no-trade clause becomes a limited no-trade clause after this year.
Gonzo gone

Alonso, Frazier, Stubbs, Soto, Francisco, Valaika, Cozart, Dorn, Ramirez, & Thompson may all be up by, or before, 2011 and each of them will cost less than a million in 2011.

I'm not that worried about the 2010 budget and after 2010 we could be in good shape for years to come.

BPhillips4
02-18-2009, 12:53 PM
Absolutely love this deal for the Reds. If Edwin turns it on this season as so many of us believe that he can, then this two year deal could end up looking like a steal.

At worst, say someone like Frazier is ready by next year and Edwin becomes expendable, it's still a very appealing affordable contract to flip him to another team.

Jerome
02-18-2009, 01:21 PM
Edwin Encarnacion is an ugly crybaby with braces. He can't speak English. He doesn't run out pop ups. He can't throw to first base consistently. He is ugly as death. I could hit him in the face with a brick and he wold look better than he does now. I will deport him.

Because we all know, in order to be a good baseball player, you have to be handsome and have a good dental plan. Oh, and I forgot, you have to speak fluent English. After that, you're set.


http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

BLEEDS
02-18-2009, 01:27 PM
Of the ones you mentioned Burton, Hopper, Kepp, Owings & probably Bray (not positive about him) are the only ones who will be arbitation eligible before 2011.


Slight chance that Votto MAY be a "Super 2", but we won't know if he's in the "top 17% of players with at least 2 years, but less than 3 years experience"


Most importantly, the emergence of the young pitchers could make Arroyo expendable before 2010. (If Volquez, Harang, and Cueto become the #1-3 starting pitchers as expected Arroyo will be a very expensive #4. Throw in Owings, Ramirez, Thompson, etc and I see another salary dump possible just like Jr & Dunn)


I don't see how he becomes expendable before 2010.
I think a lot of folks undervalue Arroyo. By 2011, his salary is probably a virtual bargain.
IFF Volquez and Cueto become TOR guys, I don't think you look at is as Arroyo is an expensive #4 - you look at it as Volquez and Cueto are BARGAINS. You don't go for AAAA guys to fill 4-5 simply to dump salary; it's thinking like that that has kept us from getting anything closely resembling a ML starting rotation for over a decade. If you've got less than $25M in this top 4, you take advantage of that and spend money elsewhere - something we're not doing, at least wisely, right now...



In 2011 BP could be the only player with a big contract left.

BP $11M in 2011 with $12M club option for 2012 with a $1M buyout
EE unless he takes a big step forward offensively and defensively he'll likely be gone
Tavares should be gone
Harang 2011 club option for $12.775m with $2M buyout
Arroyo 2011 club option for $11m with $2m buyout but likely gone
Cordero $12m in 2011 with $12M club option for 2012 with a $1M buyout but could also be dealt in a salary dump as well. His no-trade clause becomes a limited no-trade clause after this year.
Gonzo gone


I would argue that outside of Tavares and Gonzo (who aren't under contract), BP is the next best candidate to NOT be here from that group, and definitely the most likely from folks with a current contract for that year.

He definitely has the largest hole(s) in his game from that list.
He would have to make HUGE strides to ever deserve to cash that $11M from the Reds Organization in 2011.



Alonso, Frazier, Stubbs, Soto, Francisco, Valaika, Cozart, Dorn, Ramirez, & Thompson may all be up by, or before, 2011 and each of them will cost less than a million in 2011.


Agreed. More like $500/600K.

However, I'm not sold on that being a reason to jettison guys making $10M+, especially when they are pitchers.

However, the only worse thing would be keeping all of those $10M+ pitchers and surrounding them with continued SUCK on offense like we currently are.

I don't put all my eggs in the youth basket - because not every prospect does a Joey Votto or even a Jay Bruce first year/year&half in the bigs. More likely they do a Homer Bailey.

If it was my team, I'd have put a Milton Bradley in LF, gone with Dickerson/platoon in CF, and a Baldelli for the bench/wildcard.

As it stands now, unless Tavares can run himself out of a job, we'll now need two Bradley-types on offense to make up for him, outside of a Bret Butler morph from Willy.



I'm not that worried about the 2010 budget and after 2010 we could be in good shape for years to come.


Perhaps good shape budget-wise, but talent-wise is another story.
Best case scenario is that we keep our veteran pitchers because we have something to surround them with. Otherwise, it is a waste of resources to have them on a team battling the Pirates for 6th place.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

mlh1981
02-18-2009, 05:43 PM
He REALLY needs to get going this year and stop being such a disappointment. Fortunately, this deal fits him well. Good thing were not overpaying him.

Kingspoint
02-19-2009, 07:22 PM
Like the 2-year signing. Would have loved a 4-year signing and get him locked in during his prime years. A 4-year signing would have made him more valuable as both a keeper and as trade value to other teams. There are only a handful of 3rd Basemen that will OPS what EE will over each of the next 4 years.

The REDS will never see Arroyo and his $11M on the team in 2010. That salary will be gone sometime over the next 6 months.

Kingspoint
02-19-2009, 07:29 PM
What I don't understand is why would Dusty Baker say that Brandon Phillips will bat cleanup when EE will surely have an OPS about 65 points higher than Brandon's will be. BP's upside OPS is EE's downside OPS. The most likely range for BP will be .750-.800, where EE's will be .800-.850.

Kingspoint
02-19-2009, 07:37 PM
The REDS still have rights to him in 2011 as that will be EE's last year of arbitration. The REDS can make a pure decision at that time to keep him or let him go.