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View Full Version : Reds, Encarnacion Work Out Deal



HeatherC1212
02-17-2009, 10:07 AM
Just posted from Fay this morning and the details should be announced soon. I'm glad they worked something out. :)

Story: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a259c2e8d-57ae-4239-ac26-1498dba0165a&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

redsmetz
02-17-2009, 10:40 AM
Just posted from Fay this morning and the details should be announced soon. I'm glad they worked something out. :)

Story: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a259c2e8d-57ae-4239-ac26-1498dba0165a&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Per the blog, two year deal, financials not announced yet, pending a physical. I figured they'd work something out.

MrCinatit
02-17-2009, 10:54 AM
Good...now they get down to playing some baseball. Here is hoping Edwin earns it, and some.

I(heart)Freel
02-17-2009, 10:57 AM
Amen.

Didnt realize he and Willy T were good friends until I read the mlb.com article on Willy.

Maybe this contract and being around someone close will loosen Edwin up, let him relax, have fun and hit and field like he's capable. I expect a good to great year from him.

Johnny Footstool
02-17-2009, 11:31 AM
I'm not a big fan of two-year deals for young players. Either buy out some of his free-agent years, or just go to arbitration with him.

princeton
02-17-2009, 11:34 AM
I'm not a big fan of two-year deals for young players.

I'm not a big fan of two-year deals because the Reds FO has been so bad at figuring out the market lately. a player like EdE may be worth significantly less in 2010. Plus one of the young third sackers may displace him soon.

but since JimBo would have given him 2yr-$10mill per year, we're at least better than we used to be.

mbgrayson
02-17-2009, 11:40 AM
Per Hal McCoy's blog: (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/02/17/encarnacion_loses_but_still_wi.html)


The Reds, led by Assistant GM Bob Miller, were in place in Phoenix for today’s schedule arbitration hearing with Encarnacion, but Encarnacion and the team came to terms on an agreement early today - a two-year contract believed to be worth $5 million.

Chip R
02-17-2009, 11:45 AM
I'm not a big fan of two-year deals because the Reds FO has been so bad at figuring out the market lately. a player like EdE may be worth significantly less in 2010. Plus one of the young third sackers may displace him soon.


I guess they don't think much of these "young third sackers'" short term prospects or they wouldn't have re-upped him for 2 years.

lollipopcurve
02-17-2009, 11:51 AM
I guess they don't think much of these "young third sackers'" short term prospects or they wouldn't have re-upped him for 2 years.

I don't think that's it. Provided his performance doesn't fall off a cliff, the contract will make EdE easier to trade than if he were scheduled for arbitration again next year. Of the 3B prospects, only Frazier might be ready by the beginning of 2010. Francisco and Soto are going to need more time.

princeton
02-17-2009, 11:54 AM
I guess they don't think much of these "young third sackers'" short term prospects or they wouldn't have re-upped him for 2 years.


a lot of procrastination in the Reds' minors right now. can't even decide on positions.

one idea is that Walt doesn't think these guys will ever amount to much, and wants them to generate big numbers prior to trading them off. he did a lot of that in St Louis, and was usually correct.

JaxRed
02-17-2009, 11:55 AM
Wow, 2 year deal at 5 million is fantastic. So often when teams makes these deals, they give away a contract that essentially has the player win 2 years of arbitration.

In this one, both sides "gave". If Edwin had gone Year-To-Year he would have gotten more. So by gaining the longer contract, he sacrifices some potential cash.

Excellent deal.

RedEye
02-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Amen.

Didnt realize he and Willy T were good friends until I read the mlb.com article on Willy.

Maybe this contract and being around someone close will loosen Edwin up, let him relax, have fun and hit and field like he's capable. I expect a good to great year from him.

I hope he doesn't relax so much at the hot corner that he starts throwing the ball to his "friend" in CF. That would be... not good.

I(heart)Freel
02-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Per Hal McCoy's blog: (http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/02/17/encarnacion_loses_but_still_wi.html)


$5 mill, Hal? Really?

Color me skeptical. I'd be elated at that figure. But I'm dubious to say the least. My bet was closer to $7 mill.

OnBaseMachine
02-17-2009, 12:07 PM
I don't think that's it. Provided his performance doesn't fall off a cliff, the contract will make EdE easier to trade than if he were scheduled for arbitration again next year. Of the 3B prospects, only Frazier might be ready by the beginning of 2010. Francisco and Soto are going to need more time.

Yep.

I'm glad they were able to work out a deal. I think this is going to be a big year for Edwin.


Encarnacion, Reds agree to 2-year deal (update)
Posted by JohnFay at 2/17/2009 8:49 AM EST on Cincinnati.com

Walt Jocketty said the Reds worked out a 2-year deal with Edwin Encarnacion at 2:30 or this morning. The deal is pending a physical. The sides avoid arbitration The Reds had offered $2.55 million; Encarnacion requested $3.7 million.

Jocketty would not reveal the money. It will come out as soon as it's official.

All position players reported, as expected. Non-roster catcher Humberto Coto is still not here.

Update: Encarnacion is not here as well. He went to Phoenix, where the hearing was scheduled to take place today. He'll be back tomorrow.

"It's good," Dusty Baker said. "The aftermath of hearing is never nice. It's good for Edwin. It's good for us."

I know Encarnacion is much-maligned on the blog. But remember two things: He's only eight month older than Joey Votto, and Encarnacion's on-base (.340) and slugging (.446) were higher than Brandon Phillips. That said, he's got to cut down on his errors -- 23 is way too many.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a259c2e8d-57ae-4239-ac26-1498dba0165a&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Chip R
02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
When's the last time the Reds went to arbitration with someone? It's been a while.

OnBaseMachine
02-17-2009, 12:16 PM
When's the last time the Reds went to arbitration with someone? It's been a while.

Chris Reitsma in 2004. And then he was traded towards the end of Spring Training.

bucksfan2
02-17-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm glad they were able to work out a deal. I think this is going to be a big year for Edwin.

Is this the off season prior to 2008?

When it comes to Edwin it seems like we Reds fans are always hoping he puts it together. His footwork is there but he can't make the consistent throws. He had some very good months. He is ready to post an OPS+ of ... The key with Edwin is whether the hope becomes the reality.

The two year deal isn't bad and I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds signed him long term during this season.

Falls City Beer
02-17-2009, 12:27 PM
He's never going to be anything but respectable on defense, more than likely pretty poor.

Still, pretty good deal for his bat.

Cyclone792
02-17-2009, 12:29 PM
Encarnacion should have a clause placed in his contract that stipulates he gets his original uniform number back ... the number that was swiped from him last year.

As it stands, if it's 2 for 5 then that'll work.

Crosley68
02-17-2009, 12:39 PM
If the Reds offered 2.55 this year, there is no way EE accepted $5 for 2 years....that doesnt make any "cents"

Always Red
02-17-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm not a big fan of two-year deals for young players. Either buy out some of his free-agent years, or just go to arbitration with him.

EE's ego is delicate enough without being subjected to the trashing that occurs during an arb hearing.

This takes some pressure off EE, hopefully will allow him to relax and just play ball, and also seems to be a fair deal, at least, for the Reds.

This team really needs for Eddie to step up and play well at 3B. IMO, he'd make a great #4 hitter b/w Bruce and Votto.

JaxRed
02-17-2009, 01:01 PM
If the Reds offered 2.55 this year, there is no way EE accepted $5 for 2 years....that doesnt make any "cents"

Sure it does. To get a higher guarantee (5 mill) he takes less per year. Now he doesn't have to worry about injuries or poor performance.

Clubs should do this every time: Give me an incentive to not go Year to Year.

I(heart)Freel
02-17-2009, 01:08 PM
Hmmm...


10:24am: Troy Renck of the Denver Post has details:

Encarnacion will receive $2MM this season and $4.75MM in 2010 with an $850K signing bonus payable between March 29 and November 2009. Also will get $25K for 600 plate appearances.

Chip R
02-17-2009, 01:20 PM
Hmmm...


10:24am: Troy Renck of the Denver Post has details:

Encarnacion will receive $2MM this season and $4.75MM in 2010 with an $850K signing bonus payable between March 29 and November 2009. Also will get $25K for 600 plate appearances.


Right again, Hal. :rolleyes:

OnBaseMachine
02-17-2009, 01:21 PM
Hmmm...


10:24am: Troy Renck of the Denver Post has details:

Encarnacion will receive $2MM this season and $4.75MM in 2010 with an $850K signing bonus payable between March 29 and November 2009. Also will get $25K for 600 plate appearances.

That's still a solid deal for both sides, IMO.

jesusfan
02-17-2009, 01:28 PM
I'll do 2 years for 7 million any day of the week for production like Edwin...

OnBaseMachine
02-17-2009, 01:30 PM
Things I'm told
The Reds avoided arbitration and reached agreement on a two year deal with Edwin Encarnacion this morning.
Edwin made $450,000 in 2008. He had requested 3.7 mill in arbitration. The Reds had offered 2.55 mill.
Total deal: $7,600,506
2009: $2,000,000
2010: $4,750,000
Signing bonus - $850,000, payable between March 2009 and November 2009.
Plus: $25,000 for 600 plate appearances
Plus: $25,000 for All Star; $50,000 for LCS/MVP;
$100,000 for WS/MVP; $50,000 for Gold Glove; $50,000 for Silver Slugger.
Edwin will donate 1% of base salaries and signing bonus to Reds Community Fund.

http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html

princeton
02-17-2009, 01:32 PM
$100,000 for WS/MVP

I'm pulling for that incentive.

which team will pay it, though?

JaxRed
02-17-2009, 01:33 PM
If the 850K is in addition to the rest of it, the Reds shouldn't have gone for this deal.

WMR
02-17-2009, 01:43 PM
Wow Hal ... What a joke. :rolleyes:

osuceltic
02-17-2009, 01:49 PM
Hmmm...


10:24am: Troy Renck of the Denver Post has details:

Encarnacion will receive $2MM this season and $4.75MM in 2010 with an $850K signing bonus payable between March 29 and November 2009. Also will get $25K for 600 plate appearances.

My prediction: The Reds will not be paying that $4.75 million salary in 2010.

Roy Tucker
02-17-2009, 02:17 PM
Looks like the Reds don't think the economy will turn around until 2010.

Caveat Emperor
02-17-2009, 02:18 PM
I'm not high on Encarnacion's long-term future with the club, but they don't have any better options than him right now. Hopefully the economy doesn't continue to tank and leave the Reds holding the bag for a deal far in excess of what he would receive in arbitration or what they could get from a FA by non-tendering him.

princeton
02-17-2009, 02:23 PM
Looks like the Reds don't think the economy will turn around until 2010.

I was thinking the opposite

Reds seem to have paid EdE as if they will no longer be able to get cheap FAs next winter.

WebScorpion
02-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Things I'm told
The Reds avoided arbitration and reached agreement on a two year deal with Edwin Encarnacion this morning.
Edwin made $450,000 in 2008. He had requested 3.7 mill in arbitration. The Reds had offered 2.55 mill.
Total deal: $7,600,506
2009: $2,000,000
2010: $4,750,000
Signing bonus - $850,000, payable between March 2009 and November 2009.
Plus: $25,000 for 600 plate appearances
Plus: $25,000 for All Star; $50,000 for LCS/MVP;
$100,000 for WS/MVP; $50,000 for Gold Glove; $50,000 for Silver Slugger.
Edwin will donate 1% of base salaries and signing bonus to Reds Community Fund.

http://www.1530homer.com/pages/lancesBlog.html

They should have taken the $850,000 signing bonus and tied it into the Gold Glove bonus...that'd be a sure thing. If he qualifies for a GG, he'll be worth a lot more than $2.9Mil. :eek:

membengal
02-17-2009, 02:31 PM
Reasonable deal, with the potential to be a real bargain for the Reds if EE continues to develop his power. And, if he has plateaued, a contract that will still be easy to move.

Well done, Walt.

And, I disagree with whomever thought this contract shows a lack of Reds interest in the coming 3b pipeline. I disagree. This will only be Frazier's first year at AAA, and they still have not settled on a position for him. Francisco is only in his first year at AA. If Francisco is who they have their eye on, this gives him time to continue to develop.

Always Red
02-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Reds seem to have paid EdE as if they will no longer be able to get cheap FAs next winter.

I agree. If these numbers are right, EE asked for 3.7 mill, and the Reds said: hey we have a deal for you, listen to this- we'll pay you that amount, and throw in a little bit more, not just for this year, but for next year, too. Is that OK, Edwin?

:eek:

Screwball
02-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Reasonable deal, with the potential to be a real bargain for the Reds if EE continues to develop his power. And, if he has plateaued, a contract that will still be easy to move.

Well done, Walt.

And, I disagree with whomever thought this contract shows a lack of Reds interest in the coming 3b pipeline. I disagree. This will only be Frazier's first year at AAA, and they still have not settled on a position for him. Francisco is only in his first year at AA. If Francisco is who they have their eye on, this gives him time to continue to develop.

AA too. :)

IslandRed
02-17-2009, 02:52 PM
I agree. If these numbers are right, EE asked for 3.7 mill, and the Reds said: hey we have a deal for you, listen to this- we'll pay you that amount, and throw in a little bit more, not just for this year, but for next year, too. Is that OK, Edwin?


Not sure I follow... Edwin's getting $2.85 million this year, so this year's dollars are closer to what the Reds offered than what he was asking for.

As for '10, it's kind of an all-or-nothing deal to me. If he's playing poorly enough that we regret having that $4.75 million on the books, he'll probably lose his job altogether.

The part that concerns me is, instead of just signing him for $2.85 million this year, there's a "signing bonus" that the Reds can defer all the way to November. Makes me wonder if they're concerned about cash flow.

Always Red
02-17-2009, 03:07 PM
Not sure I follow... Edwin's getting $2.85 million this year, so this year's dollars are closer to what the Reds offered than what he was asking for.

As for '10, it's kind of an all-or-nothing deal to me. If he's playing poorly enough that we regret having that $4.75 million on the books, he'll probably lose his job altogether.

The part that concerns me is, instead of just signing him for $2.85 million this year, there's a "signing bonus" that the Reds can defer all the way to November. Makes me wonder if they're concerned about cash flow.

Well, I just doubled the 3.7 for 2 years, and saw the Reds were paying above that for the total deal. I was speaking more to the Reds view of the economy than anything else. In a "normal" economy, this deal is pretty fair, I think. In this current economy, I think it looks more fair to Edwin than the Reds. I feel like the Reds would have won arb with EE, but not sure his ego could handle a bruising arbitration session. What i get out of this is that I think the businessmen who run the Reds feel this economy is going to be a short term thing. Either that, or they are very high on Edwin being a long term answer at 3B.

membengal
02-17-2009, 03:11 PM
If Edwin hits 33 homeruns this year with an OPS around .860 or so, this deal will be great from the Reds' perspective.

Even if he "only" hits around 26 homeruns again this year with an OPS around .820 it will still be a fair deal at $4.75 million for 2010.

princeton
02-17-2009, 03:23 PM
And, I disagree with whomever thought this contract shows a lack of Reds interest in the coming 3b pipeline. I disagree. This will only be Frazier's first year at AAA, and they still have not settled on a position for him.

Reds are sandbagging Frazier, who should have spent a half-year in Chattanooga last summer. they might not like him, but I suspect that he's heard that all his life. he'll show 'em different, I think.

in fact, in spite of the sandbagging, I suspect that he'll be ready this year. In which case, it's unfortunate that the guy that you just might want to nontender has a guarantee for 2010. it cuts off that option. Kudos to EdE's agent.

at least the Reds can't figure out positions for either of 'em. Gold Glove incentive... I love it.

REDREAD
02-17-2009, 03:27 PM
If the Reds offered 2.55 this year, there is no way EE accepted $5 for 2 years....that doesnt make any "cents"


Edit, never mind.. it looks like 2 years and about 7.5 million..

REDREAD
02-17-2009, 03:31 PM
My prediction: The Reds will not be paying that $4.75 million salary in 2010.

Unless EdE steps it up, I don't think anyone else will be willing to pay that salary. I predict the Reds will end up paying it. (If he plays well enough to earn it, they won't want to trade him).

corkedbat
02-17-2009, 03:31 PM
nm

Ron Madden
02-17-2009, 04:23 PM
Good for Edwin! It's seems like a pretty good deal for both EE and the Reds.


:)

osuceltic
02-17-2009, 04:46 PM
Unless EdE steps it up, I don't think anyone else will be willing to pay that salary. I predict the Reds will end up paying it. (If he plays well enough to earn it, they won't want to trade him).

Nah, one year at that salary will make him attractive, even if he has just a so-so year. I think the Reds are trying to get a cheap year out of him to bridge the gap to Frazier next year. They'll deal EE after the season -- or maybe even before the deadline if they're out of it or if they can use him to help add a piece for a stretch run (and feel they can get by with in-house options during that stretch run).

I think the only way he stays is if he has a monster season. We'll see.

membengal
02-17-2009, 05:07 PM
Reds are sandbagging Frazier, who should have spent a half-year in Chattanooga last summer. they might not like him, but I suspect that he's heard that all his life. he'll show 'em different, I think.

in fact, in spite of the sandbagging, I suspect that he'll be ready this year. In which case, it's unfortunate that the guy that you just might want to nontender has a guarantee for 2010. it cuts off that option. Kudos to EdE's agent.

at least the Reds can't figure out positions for either of 'em. Gold Glove incentive... I love it.

I like Frazier too, and the Reds' handling of him makes it less than clear he would ready for a full-time gig in 2010. Especially since they won't seem to find him a position. IF he really is ready this year, and EE has a good year, they could always deal EE.

Crosley68
02-17-2009, 05:30 PM
Sure it does. To get a higher guarantee (5 mill) he takes less per year. Now he doesn't have to worry about injuries or poor performance.

Clubs should do this every time: Give me an incentive to not go Year to Year.

I bet EE is glad you are not his agent Jax. ;)

princeton
02-17-2009, 06:37 PM
they could always deal EE.

like we could always deal Dunn.

next stop: "there's just no market."

personally, I don't have a problem with a $5mill slugger. there are worse problems. But the Reds do need to deal out of surplus and into need, and trust those surpluses.

reds44
02-17-2009, 06:37 PM
Uh, we didn't deal Dunn?

princeton
02-17-2009, 06:54 PM
Uh, we didn't deal Dunn?

skin of our teeth

reds44
02-17-2009, 07:03 PM
They still trade him, right?

LINEDRIVER
02-17-2009, 08:05 PM
EE's ego is delicate enough without being subjected to the trashing that occurs during an arb hearing.

This takes some pressure off EE, hopefully will allow him to relax and just play ball, and also seems to be a fair deal, at least, for the Reds.

This team really needs for Eddie to step up and play well at 3B. IMO, he'd make a great #4 hitter b/w Bruce and Votto.

Hopefully, EEE will step up his game and prove me wrong…BUT…I’ve been hoping EEE won’t bat 4th and between Bruce & Votto in ‘09.

IMO, his mental game is too fragile to handle batting clean-up. A muffed grounder here and a bad throw there can easily put him in a 1-for-19 cold streak at the plate.

I looked at some numbers and found that EEE has hit a career .263 (64-for-273) when batting fourth BUT has batted .212 from the fourth slot over 2007 & 2008 (21-for-99) and batted only .190 (11-for-58) while batting fourth in 2008. He was a .235 hitter vs RHP in '08.

Did You Know? EEE is a .340 career hitter when batting in the 7th slot (.315 in 2008).

OnBaseMachine
02-17-2009, 08:33 PM
I'm hoping Edwin hits cleanup. He's a much better option there than Brandon Phillips. JMO.

_Sir_Charles_
02-17-2009, 08:43 PM
I'm hoping Edwin hits cleanup. He's a much better option there than Brandon Phillips. JMO.

I agree. Edwin doesn't appear to alter his hitting approach when he's in the 4 slot or somewhere else. Brandon, however, turns into a completely different guy in the 4 slot. It's almost as if he's trying to force himself into becoming a homerun hitter when he's there. It's the one slot I don't want Brandon in at all. I think he could be successful in just about any other slot though.

*BaseClogger*
02-17-2009, 08:45 PM
I agree. Edwin doesn't appear to alter his hitting approach when he's in the 4 slot or somewhere else. Brandon, however, turns into a completely different guy in the 4 slot. It's almost as if he's trying to force himself into becoming a homerun hitter when he's there. It's the one slot I don't want Brandon in at all.

:thumbup:


I think he could be successful in just about any other slot [below #6] though.

So true! :thumbup:

*BaseClogger*
02-17-2009, 08:47 PM
Hopefully, EEE will step up his game and prove me wrong…BUT…I’ve been hoping EEE won’t bat 4th and between Bruce & Votto in ‘09.

IMO, his mental game is too fragile to handle batting clean-up. A muffed grounder here and a bad throw there can easily put him in a 1-for-19 cold streak at the plate.

I looked at some numbers and found that EEE has hit a career .263 (64-for-273) when batting fourth BUT has batted .212 from the fourth slot over 2007 & 2008 (21-for-99) and batted only .190 (11-for-58) while batting fourth in 2008. He was a .235 hitter vs RHP in '08.

Did You Know? EEE is a .340 career hitter when batting in the 7th slot (.315 in 2008).

Are these numbers from the Mexican Pacific League though? :p:

Highlifeman21
02-17-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm hoping Edwin hits cleanup. He's a much better option there than Brandon Phillips. JMO.

Against RHP, sure.

Against LHP I have no problem with BP batting 4th.