PDA

View Full Version : 3/11/09 Reds vs Astros



_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 02:05 PM
Reds:
Darnell McDonald cf
Chris Dickerson lf
Jay Bruce rf
Brandon Phillips 2b
Daryle Ward 1b
Juan Francisco 3b
Danny Richar ss
Ryan Hanigan c
Jeff Keppinger dh
Aaron Harang p. Homer Bailey will follow Harang

Astros:
Kazuo Matsui dh
Michael Bourn cf
Lance Berkman 1b
Hunter Pence rf
Geoff Blum 3b
David Newhan 2b
Lou Palmisano c
Brian Bogusevic lf
Tommy Manzella ss
Jeff Fulchino p

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 02:32 PM
Okay, thanks Chip. Let's update what's happened so far.

Light breeze blowing out to left

Top of 1st:
Matsui grounds out to Phillips on a great play by Brandon
Bourn grounds out to Ward who made a diving stab. Back to back web gems
Berkman does his usual...double off the wall.
Pence flies out to Bruce

Bottom of 1st:
Single to left by McDonald
Sac Bunt to pitcher by Dickerson, pitcher tries for second, throwing error, then CF'er bobbles it. McDonald to third, Dickerson to second.
Bruce sac fly to left. McDonald scores.
Dickerson steals third.
Phillips doubles down lf line, Dickerson scores.
Ward flies out to left. Phillips aggresively advances to third.
Francisco hits a sharp single past short to plate Phillips. 3-0 Redlegs.
Richar grounds out softly to Berkman to end the inning.

3-0 Reds after 1

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 02:39 PM
Top of 2nd.

I missed what Blum did (but he was out) ~ edit ~ He struck out.
Newhan flies out to Bruce
Palmisano strikes out swinging : 2 K's for Aaron

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 02:42 PM
Bottom of 2nd. 3-0 Reds

Hanigan bloop single to right. He's just producing. Period. Hitting over .500 now.
Keppinger linedrive to a leaping shortstop. Nice play.
McDonald single to left. Hanigan advances to third. 2-2 for McDonald.
Dickerson flies out deep to right on a sliding catch by Pence. Hanigan scores. McDonald holds at 1st.
McDonald steals second
Bruce grounds out to second.

4-0 Reds after 2

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 02:53 PM
Top of 3rd.

Bogusevic singles to center
Manzella singles to left
Matsui grounds to 2nd, Richar double-clutches and can't turn DP.
Bourn strikes out. Matsui steals second on the no-throw. Nearly a double steal but Hanigan holds him at third.
Berkman bounces out to Phillips to end the inning.

4-0 Reds middle of 3

redsmetz
03-11-2009, 02:59 PM
Sir Chas, I'm liking the way the Reds are playing this game. Good hitting, aggressive base running.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:00 PM
exactly. They're picking their spots better in terms of baserunning. I've liked that they've been aggressive, but they've just been picking HORRIBLE spots up to today.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:01 PM
Bottom of 3

Pitching: Gilbert De La Vara

Phillips grounds to short
Ward grounds out to Berkman
Francisco grounds out to end the inning.

4-0 Reds after 3

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:05 PM
These astros announcers are annoying me with their "analysis" of the Reds pitching.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:06 PM
This is the first time I've even heard these announcers. I see a lot of their TV guys here, but not radio. But I do think they're spot on in regards to it being odd that our highest paid player is a closer on a team that hasn't won in a decade.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:07 PM
It's just sloppy, but I guess what I have come to expect.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:09 PM
Top of 4

Tatum C, Jones 1B, Gomes RF

Pence strikes out looking. K #4 for Aaron
Blum pops out to McDonald
Newhan flies out to DEEP right. Gomes snags it at the wall. 3 up 3 down.

4-0 Reds middle of 4. Nice solid start for Aaron so far. Bailey is supposed to be replacing him today...not sure when though.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:14 PM
Bottom of 4

De La Vara still pitching

Richar out on soft dribbler to third
Tatum walks
Keppinger...I missed it. But since it's a commercial, I'm guessing DP.

Hoosier Red
03-11-2009, 03:20 PM
exactly. They're picking their spots better in terms of baserunning. I've liked that they've been aggressive, but they've just been picking HORRIBLE spots up to today.

Yeah, before today, they were picking times to run when they'd be thrown out. Really you'd think professionals would know better. ;)

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:22 PM
Top of 5th

Pitching: Homer Bailey

Dennis Hopper?, Janish, Rosales, Nix in

Palmisano grounds to Richar
Bogusevic singles to right
Bogusevic steals second on a breaking ball
Manzella strikes out looking
Matsui

camisadelgolf
03-11-2009, 03:22 PM
Why would I hear two radio stations at the same time when I listen to this stream? http://www.sports790.com/cc-common/ondemand/player.html?world=st

update: The Astros/Reds game is no longer streaming. Very weird.

redsfan30
03-11-2009, 03:23 PM
Homer's now on the mound....he retires the first batter on a grounder to short.

Chip R
03-11-2009, 03:25 PM
Top of 5th

Pitching: Homer Bailey

Dennis Hopper?,



I didn't know Kitty Duran was doing the games. :evil:

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:26 PM
I didn't know Kitty Duran was doing the games. :evil:

LOL. Hey, it's not me. That's what the announcers said. :O)

mth123
03-11-2009, 03:27 PM
exactly. They're picking their spots better in terms of baserunning. I've liked that they've been aggressive, but they've just been picking HORRIBLE spots up to today.

Funny, I was just thinking that this game is a good example of how over-rated getting that extra base is.

1st Inning - Dickerson Steals third and Phillips doubles. Dickerson would have scored without taking that risk.

1st Inning - Phillips takes a risky extra base on a FO by Ward. Francisco singles and Phillips would have scored anyway.

2nd Inning - McDonald steals 2nd and Bruce GO to end the inning.

Three pleasing and exciting baserunnig plays, but none had any more to do with the outcome than me walking accross the street to get my mail.

Nothing wrong with good players who can add the dimension of stealing or taking the extra base to their games, but bypassing more basic things like Getting on Base and Power for the sake of having a guy who can steal bases is simply a poor choice. No amount of stolen bases can make up for the basics of getting on base and hitting for power.

redsfan30
03-11-2009, 03:28 PM
The next batter singled to right center off Homer.

redsfan30
03-11-2009, 03:29 PM
After the runner at first stole second, Homer strikes out the hitter looking.

camisadelgolf
03-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Funny, I was just thinking that this game is a good example of how over-rated getting that extra base is.
Isn't that like saying getting a double instead of a single is overrated because it so often has the same result?

redsmetz
03-11-2009, 03:32 PM
Funny, I was just thinking that this game is a good example of how over-rated getting that extra base is.

1st Inning - Dickerson Steals third and Phillips doubles. Dickerson would have scored without taking that risk.

1st Inning - Phillips takes a risky extra base on a FO by Ward. Francisco singles and Phillips would have scored anyway.

2nd Inning - McDonald steals 2nd and Bruce GO to end the inning.

Three pleasing and exciting baserunnig plays, but none had any more to do with the outcome than me walking accross the street to get my mail.

Nothing wrong with good players who can add the dimension of stealing or taking the extra base to their games, but bypassing more basic things like Getting on Base and Power for the sake of having a guy who can steal bases is simply a poor choice. No amount of stolen bases can make up for the basics of getting on base and hitting for power.

So this is just a quick analysis to conclude that the Reds shouldn't have signed Taveras? :D

Regarding your analysis though, just because the ultimate scoring outcome made each addtional base superflous, the conclusions might not have followed had the runners been at the previous base.

HeatherC1212
03-11-2009, 03:34 PM
I'm very glad Aaron had a good outing today. I'm not horribly worried about his up and down spring (IIRC, he had a horrible spring in 2007 and then he ended that year fourth in the Cy Young voting after an awesome season) but it is nice to see him put some strong innings together again. :)

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:34 PM
I'm going to have to be heading out soon, so someone else will need to take over the PBP.

Chip R
03-11-2009, 03:36 PM
LOL. Hey, it's not me. That's what the announcers said. :O)


That's what I'm saying. It's sort of a private joke between us.

mth123
03-11-2009, 03:37 PM
Isn't that like saying getting a double instead of a single is overrated because it so often has the same result?

Not really. Sometimes doubles come with great risk of making an out but usually on a double the risk of advancing from 1st to 2nd is minimal. Stealing or advancing on a fly ball is usually pretty risky. The Double vs. Single comparison also has the added element of moving other runners along where the stolen base doesn't really. I just think steals aren't worth much when it comes to winning games these days. My biggest dilemma is trying to decide whether on-base challenged, powerless steal guy is more worthless than power challenged, no speed or other on base ability batting average guy. I think either need to be plus defenders to warrant much more than 25th man treatment.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:40 PM
Gomes up, a runner or two on, I believe.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:40 PM
Yep, Hopper reached via error, next came a walk. Gomes robbed of a double by diving catch of Bourn. Double steal successful. Rosales double that scores 2. 6-0 Redlegs.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:41 PM
Gomes robbed on a diving catch in deep left-center, by Bourn. Runners return to their bases.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Rosales up.

Gomes has had a really nice spring, got to think he is locked in as the RHed part of a platoon.

Double steal puts runners on 2nd and 3rd.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Hopper on 3rd, Nix on 2nd.

The Reds have 5 stolen bases on the day.

Rosales then doubles down the left field line, scoring two.

6-0.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Announcers note that things sometimes even out, Gomes was robbed on a bullet, Rosales was helped by the infield playing in a bit and his ball was a chopper that cleared the third baseman and went down the line.

J. Jones up.

mth123
03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
So this is just a quick analysis to conclude that the Reds shouldn't have signed Taveras? :D

Regarding your analysis though, just because the ultimate scoring outcome made each addtional base superflous, the conclusions might not have followed had the runners been at the previous base.

Yeah, in a way but, its more a soapbox that I should probably get down off of that I think steals in general add little value. I did some research on this a few years ago when Freel getting picked-off all the time wore me out. What I determined is that steals just don't add much to the offense and the risk of getting thrown out or picked off just isn't worth it.

I'd certainly prefer guys who can run to those who can't, but I'd take a slowpoke who gets on base 100 times out of 100 to a speed demon who is challenged in that area. Just being able to run does not make a player a good player. It might make him a good athlete, but that doesn't mean he helps a baseball team much during a game.

camisadelgolf
03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Not really. Sometimes doubles come with great risk of making an out but usually on a double the risk of advancing from 1st to 2nd is minimal. Stealing or advancing on a fly ball is usually pretty risky. The Double vs. Single comparison also has the added element of moving other runners along where the stolen base doesn't really. I just think steals aren't worth much when it comes to winning games these days. My biggest dilemma is trying to decide whether on-base challenged, powerless steal guy is more worthless than power challenged, no speed or other on base ability batting average guy. I think either need to be plus defenders to warrant much more than 25th man treatment.
Yeah, I agree, but for the sake of discussion, I'll comment on it.

For several reasons, in the majority of situations, stealing a base just isn't a good idea, but if you have Dickerson on first base, late in a tie game, with a couple weak hitters coming up, a stolen base would theoretically be a big step toward scoring that run to take the lead.

It's all a matter of knowing when to attempt a steal, but this is spring training, and I think a lot of guys are being aggressive just for the sake of being aggressive.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
Jones grounds out to 2b, Rosales moves to third.

Two out, Janish up.

lollipopcurve
03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
The Reds are going to punish pitchers with poor moves and catchers with poor arms. I like it.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:46 PM
J. Jones is having a toxic spring. I hope the Reds are noticing. I don't think his fall-off in the last few years, nor this spring is a coincedence. His bat is simply too slow. No way should be on the team over Laynce Nix, for instance.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:47 PM
Janish walks. On four pitches. Let's assume this particular pitcher for the Astros is NOT sharp. Fernando Nieves.

He's being taken out. Because when you walk Janish on four pitches, you get taken out. Even in spring training.

redsmetz
03-11-2009, 03:47 PM
Yeah, in a way but, its more a soapbox that I should probably get down off of that I think steals in general add little value. I did some research on this a few years ago when Freel getting picked-off all the time wore me out. What I determined is that steals just don't add much to the offense and the risk of getting thrown out or picked off just isn't worth it.

I'd certainly prefer guys who can run to those who can't, but I'd take a slowpoke who gets on base 100 times out of 100 to a speed demon who is challenged in that area. Just being able to run does not make a player a good player. It might make him a good athlete, but that doesn't mean he helps a baseball team much during a game.

Rather than clutter up the Game Thread, maybe this would make a good subject to discuss as it's own thread. You want to start one? I think it could be a good talk.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:48 PM
Nix hasn't exactly lit the world on fire either though. Gomes has been solid, but I think I'd rather we give one of the young guys a shot rather than keeping multiple NRI's. Rosales deserves a shot IMO. He's been flat-out impressive.

If I was going to keep any of those NRI's, I'd be leaning towards Gomes & McDonald right now.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:50 PM
Here's the Memphis, Tennessee weather forecast for tomorrow:


A WINTER STORM WATCH REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM LATE TONIGHT THROUGH
THURSDAY EVENING.

RAIN WILL BEGIN LATE THIS EVENING ACROSS EAST-CENTRAL ARKANSAS
AND SOUTHWEST TENNESSEE. RAIN WILL CHANGE OVER TO FREEZING RAIN
OR SLEET SHORTLY BEFORE SUNRISE. FREEZING RAIN OR SLEET WILL
CONTINUE TO OCCUR THROUGH THE MORNING INTO THE AFTERNOON. A
CHANGEOVER TO SNOW COULD OCCUR IN AREAS NORTH OF INTERSTATE 40.
ICE ACCUMULATIONS WILL LIKELY BE AROUND A QUARTER OF AN INCH. ONE
TO TWO INCHES OF SLEET OR SNOW ACCUMULATION IS EXPECTED.

Four pitch walk from the new pitcher loads the bases.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:50 PM
Rather than clutter up the Game Thread, maybe this would make a good subject to discuss as it's own thread. You want to start one? I think it could be a good talk.

I disagree. Strongly. That kind of conversation spices up the thread, and is a lot like listening to that kind of talk between pitches.

Keep it up, fellas.

mth123
03-11-2009, 03:51 PM
Yeah, I agree, but for the sake of discussion, I'll comment on it.

For several reasons, in the majority of situations, stealing a base just isn't a good idea, but if you have Dickerson on first base, late in a tie game, with a couple weak hitters coming up, a stolen base would theoretically be a big step toward scoring that run to take the lead.

It's all a matter of knowing when to attempt a steal, but this is spring training, and I think a lot of guys are being aggressive just for the sake of being aggressive.

I don't know. Rosales just doubled in Nix and Hopper after a double steal. Those two guys are fast enough that they woud have scored without the double steal. That's the thing, most of the time the guys who can steal are fast enough that they don't really need to steal to score anyway. So the Reds stole a bunch of bases today. It really hasn't impacted the score much. Its exciting though. Maybe the flash to get the fans fired up is part of what this team needs. That's possible. It may even help put some butts in the seats. That could help a lot when it comes to getting good players.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 03:51 PM
ROFLMAO! At first I was wondering why in the world is he posting the Memphis weather report? That's hilarious. Nothing like a bit of a change in the weather to liven up your day. :O)

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:51 PM
Nix hasn't exactly lit the world on fire either though. Gomes has been solid, but I think I'd rather we give one of the young guys a shot rather than keeping multiple NRI's. Rosales deserves a shot IMO. He's been flat-out impressive.

If I was going to keep any of those NRI's, I'd be leaning towards Gomes & McDonald right now.

Nix plays all three OF spots. Rosales does not.

They are working toward different spots on the roster.

Ground out from Tatum ends the inning.

6-0 Reds after five.

durl
03-11-2009, 03:52 PM
We're less than 2 weeks in to Spring Training, but the Brandon Phillips Cleanup Experiment is off to a good start. He's hit safely in every game with at .455 batting average.

BRM
03-11-2009, 03:52 PM
There is a reason Darnell McDonald is 30 years old and only has 42 major league at-bats. No way I'd keep him over Nix.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:53 PM
ROFLMAO! At first I was wondering why in the world is he posting the Memphis weather report? That's hilarious. Nothing like a bit of a change in the weather to liven up your day. :O)

I'm from Memphis now (last 10 years). Originally Cincy.

We were between 70 and 80 for five days running. And now ice in the forecast.

Spring.

BRM
03-11-2009, 03:53 PM
Nix plays all three OF spots. Rosales does not.


And plays them well from what I've heard.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:55 PM
I don't know. Rosales just doubled in Nix and Hopper after a double steal. Those two guys are fast enough that they woud have scored without the double steal. That's the thing, most of the time the guys who can steal are fast enough that they don't really need to steal to score anyway. So the Reds stole a bunch of bases today. It really hasn't impacted the score much. Its exciting though. Maybe the flash to get the fans fired up is part of what this team needs. That's possible. It may even help put some butts in the seats. That could help a lot when it comes to getting good players.

Bad example. It was a chopper double, only a double (or hit at all) according to the announcers, because IF pulled in when runners went to 2nd and 3rd. Not only would runner not have scored from 1b on that double, it may have actually been a double play ball.

I agree that stealing bases has uneven utility, but it DOES have some utility, mth.

Long fly caught in gap for first out for Bailey in 6th.

HotCorner
03-11-2009, 03:55 PM
What's Homer's line thus far?

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Pop up for secound out in 6th for Bailey.

Hunter Pence now up.

Bloop single into left field.

Two outs, one on.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:56 PM
1 2/3, two hits, no walks, one K, I believe, is Homer's current line.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:56 PM
Blum singles back through the box, two on, two out. David Newhan up.

HotCorner
03-11-2009, 03:57 PM
1 2/3, two hits, no walks, one K, I believe, is Homer's current line.

Thanks!

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:57 PM
There is a reason Darnell McDonald is 30 years old and only has 42 major league at-bats. No way I'd keep him over Nix.

Word.

I just don't see McDonald as a factor, no matter what he hits this spring. He would good to have at AAA. Organizations needs lifers like him.

Nix isn't quite that category yet, and would be of enormous value to the Reds. Both for defense and for bat.

BRM
03-11-2009, 03:59 PM
I just don't see McDonald as a factor, no matter what he hits this spring. He would good to have at AAA. Organizations needs lifers like him.

Nix isn't quite that category yet, and would be of enormous value to the Reds. Both for defense and for bat.

Agreed. If Nix isn't hitting enough to justify a spot, send him to Louisville too if possible. Having some OF depth in AAA is a good thing. Although, don't these NRI's have the option to refuse the assignment and become free agents again if they desire?

mth123
03-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Nix hasn't exactly lit the world on fire either though. Gomes has been solid, but I think I'd rather we give one of the young guys a shot rather than keeping multiple NRI's. Rosales deserves a shot IMO. He's been flat-out impressive.

If I was going to keep any of those NRI's, I'd be leaning towards Gomes & McDonald right now.

McDonald has certainly done well, but I think the bench needs a lefty bat. I can't see both Gomes and McDonald making the team unless another surprise like Richar can add a lefty off the bench. I'm guessing Gomes, Hairston, Hanigan, Keppinger and Ward will be the bench. (I don't think Kepp over Richar should be automatic, but it probably is) The real question is whether Dusty will platoon Gomes with Dickerson or if he'll use Hairston in that role. Dickerson and Hairston are more similar skillsets and may make a more logical platoon when it comes to setting the batting order. I also wonder whether the team may sit Bruce from time to time against LHP and go with a Gomes, Taveras, Hairston OF.

membengal
03-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Astros have bases loaded. I missed how third runner got on.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:00 PM
Sal Falsano robbed on a diving catch by Gomes. Seriously.

Gomes.

Astros announcer lamenting that it was Gomes who robbed them.

Inning over.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:00 PM
Sounds like Bailey struggled a bit that inning.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:00 PM
Three stranded for the Astros, the Gomes play saved at least two runs, and perhaps three.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:01 PM
Sal Falsano robbed on a diving catch by Gomes. Seriously.

Gomes.

Astros announcer lamenting that it was Gomes who robbed them.

Inning over.

Jonny Gomes. Flashing the leather.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:03 PM
Reds up in bottom of the 6th. Keppinger up.

mth123
03-11-2009, 04:03 PM
Bad example. It was a chopper double, only a double (or hit at all) according to the announcers, because IF pulled in when runners went to 2nd and 3rd. Not only would runner not have scored from 1b on that double, it may have actually been a double play ball.

I agree that stealing bases has uneven utility, but it DOES have some utility, mth.

Long fly caught in gap for first out for Bailey in 6th.

So the double was only because the double steal pulled the IF in? If so, then I concede that point.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:05 PM
Bouncing ball up middle off pitcher's glove, Kepp beats throw to 1b for a base hit after second baseman makes play close off the deflection.

I am sure Kepp is glad for the hit.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:06 PM
Whoever was up next bounced into a DP on the first pitch.

Nix now up.

redsmetz
03-11-2009, 04:06 PM
Bad example. It was a chopper double, only a double (or hit at all) according to the announcers, because IF pulled in when runners went to 2nd and 3rd. Not only would runner not have scored from 1b on that double, it may have actually been a double play ball.

I agree that stealing bases has uneven utility, but it DOES have some utility, mth.

Long fly caught in gap for first out for Bailey in 6th.

This was my thinking viz taking the extra bases or stealing. I haven't gone back to review this game, but clearly, in some cases advancing bases can alter what the infield is doing or what pitches are thrown. Not always, of course, but sometimes.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:07 PM
So the double was only because the double steal pulled the IF in? If so, then I concede that point.

I think your overall point is good, it's just that particular example was one case where the aggressive base-running actually helped create something (that is based on how the Astros announcers described it, mind).

Nix bounces out to 1b.

6-0 after six.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Whoever was up next bounced into a DP on the first pitch.

Nix now up.

It should have been Hopper. He replaced McDonald in the leadoff slot.

mth123
03-11-2009, 04:08 PM
This was my thinking viz taking the extra bases or stealing. I haven't gone back to review this game, but clearly, in some cases advancing bases can alter what the infield is doing or what pitches are thrown. Not always, of course, but sometimes.

Agreed. I just wonder if its worth the risk of getting thrown out or by-passing a different player with another skillset in favor of the speed guy. Even if it mattered in this case, I still don't think so.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Looks like Rhodes is coming in to pitch.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Bailey Ks the first guy up on three pitches.

ETA: Rhodes in, Bailey out.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:11 PM
Oops. Rhodes.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:11 PM
2 scoreless for Bailey.

nate
03-11-2009, 04:11 PM
Here's the Memphis, Tennessee weather forecast for tomorrow:



Four pitch walk from the new pitcher loads the bases.

Whoa, just saw that. I was wearing shorts and walking the dog yesterday.

crz

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:11 PM
Didn't hear that Bailey was out.

Rhodes Ks the next guy on three pitches as well.

6 pitches, 6 strikes, two Ks.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:12 PM
Three more and Rhodes has pulled a Bugs Bunny inning.

Seventh pitch a strike!

But then a ball. Rats.

Bugs Bunny innings are rare things.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:12 PM
Rhodes Ks the next guy on three pitches as well.

6 pitches, 6 strikes, two Ks.

Nice.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:13 PM
Kaz Matsui grounds out to 3b (Janish there), and three up, three down.

Middle of 7, still 6-0 Reds.

mth123
03-11-2009, 04:15 PM
So... if Homer is in the 5th starter hunt, why only 2 innings today? He was stretched ot 4 last time IIRC. Is he hurt, being considered for the pen or is it just Dusty being Dusty?

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:15 PM
Astros announcer working hard to find positives from the game today. He liked two innings from one of their relievers. That's about it.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:15 PM
So... if Homer is in the 5th starter hunt, why only 2 innings today? He was stretched ot 4 last time IIRC. Is he hurt, being considered for the pen or is it just Dusty being Dusty?

Not sure. He wasn't all that sharp, but I don't think that is a reason to back him off.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Pop up from Bankston to start the 7th. Rosales up. One out.

mth123
03-11-2009, 04:18 PM
Sounds like Homer was pitching on short rest because of the day off tomorrow. Probably why only 2 innings today.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:19 PM
Work intervening, losing the narrative on the game.

Sorry, folks.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:20 PM
Back in, for a few mintues.

Two outs, no one on. Kevin Barker(?) up.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Sounds like Homer was pitching on short rest because of the day off tomorrow. Probably why only 2 innings today.

That makes some sense.

Barker singles back through the middle. Janish up. Reds unleashing the big lumber now.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:21 PM
Janish...JANISH...doubles off the LF wall.

Janish.

Barker held up at third, second and third, two outs.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:21 PM
big lumber indeed.

In my face.

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:22 PM
Fly out to right center ends the inning.

6-0 Reds after seven.

BRM
03-11-2009, 04:22 PM
Janish...JANISH...doubles off the LF wall.

Janish.

Barker held up at third, second and third, two outs.

Gomes flashing the leather. Janish showing some pop. What's the world coming to?

membengal
03-11-2009, 04:23 PM
Have to go to a meeting now, last two innings will have to come from someone else. Sorry.

Hope you all have a good day.

Spring~Fields
03-11-2009, 04:24 PM
Gomes flashing the leather. Janish showing some pop. What's the world coming to?

Poor pitching improves poor hitting :)

Nothing has seemed to help my fav Jay Bruce yet this ST though.:dunno:

mth123
03-11-2009, 04:27 PM
That makes some sense.

Barker singles back through the middle. Janish up. Reds unleashing the big lumber now.

Barker has had a decent spring. The last bench spot might be between he and Ward. Both are lefty hitting 1B who have been accused of standing in the OF during a game occassionally (not sure anyone has ever accused either of actually playing the OF). This team needs a LHPH with pop and those seem to be the two choices.

PuffyPig
03-11-2009, 04:31 PM
Janish...JANISH...doubles off the LF wall.

Janish.

Barker held up at third, second and third, two outs.

If Barker had stolen second, he would have scored.

Just sayin'.

Using any particular example as evidence of the value of a stolen base is pretty useless.

mth123
03-11-2009, 04:38 PM
If Barker had stolen second, he would have scored.

Just sayin'.

Using any particular example as evidence of the value of a stolen base is pretty useless.

I don't disagree with that, but the point has been made at the macro level by many who are a lot smarter than I am. Particular examples just illustrate why it might be so. I'm sure somebody will make the claim that the Reds scored a bunch of runs today because they stole a bunch of bases. It just ain't so.

lollipopcurve
03-11-2009, 04:48 PM
Nix with a two-run HR in the 8th.

So far, he has outplayed Jones and Ward. I'm rooting for him to be the LH bat off the bench. He's got some power, some speed, and he plays all 3 OF spots. Plus, he's still kinda young, and I'm sure he's hungry.

PuffyPig
03-11-2009, 04:57 PM
Nix with a two-run HR in the 8th.

So far, he has outplayed Jones and Ward. I'm rooting for him to be the LH bat off the bench. He's got some power, some speed, and he plays all 3 OF spots. Plus, he's still kinda young, and I'm sure he's hungry.

The fact he can play all 3 OF's spots makes him emensely for valuable than ward or JOnes, who I both hate anyway. And Nix may actually have some upside.

mth123
03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Nix with a two-run HR in the 8th.

So far, he has outplayed Jones and Ward. I'm rooting for him to be the LH bat off the bench. He's got some power, some speed, and he plays all 3 OF spots. Plus, he's still kinda young, and I'm sure he's hungry.

I like him the best as well, but I think Dusty (and this is only my own probably biased hunch) slots guys. Nix is competing with Dickerson for LH half of LF. Ward is competing with Barker for LHPH. I'm not sure Dusty will keep both Dickerson and Nix because he'll want the other playing every day in AAA to be ready if needed. I hope I'm wrong about that. (Of Course if Dickerson and Hairston were the platoon in CF and Nix and Gomes in LF with Ward on the bench and Taveras cut loose it would be the best roster IMO.)

Ward has had an awful Spring, but I think the Dusty factor may be in his favor. Barker will be 34 in July and he'd be my last choice as well, but if spring means anything, Barker has had the better, small sample size, spring so far, Nix included.

JaxRed
03-11-2009, 05:10 PM
I don't think Barker is under any consideration at all. I think he's going to AAA no matter what

redsmetz
03-11-2009, 05:12 PM
Ward has had an awful Spring, but I think the Dusty factor may be in his favor. Barker will be 34 in July and he'd be my last choice as well, but if spring means anything, Barker has had the better, small sample size, spring so far, Nix included.

I continue to resist the Urban Legend that Dusty is completely in love with vets. That wasn't so much true last year as he's stuck with our youngsters as the season progressed. I think the club (and that includes Dusty's input) will take the best players north and if Nix shows he's among that group, he'll come north. It's certainly possible that guys having options could preclude someone like Nix going to AAA, if things are close.

BTW, anyone have any idea how the game progressed?

redsmetz
03-11-2009, 05:15 PM
Checked it on the Reds site, final score 8-2, no details (I'm working, so no time, sorry).

mth123
03-11-2009, 05:15 PM
I continue to resist the Urban Legend that Dusty is completely in love with vets. That wasn't so much true last year as he's stuck with our youngsters as the season progressed. I think the club (and that includes Dusty's input) will take the best players north and if Nix shows he's among that group, he'll come north. It's certainly possible that guys having options could preclude someone like Nix going to AAA, if things are close.

BTW, anyone have any idea how the game progressed?

Reds win 8 to 2.

BRM
03-11-2009, 05:23 PM
I don't think Barker is under any consideration at all. I think he's going to AAA no matter what

Agreed. Barker and McDonald are both heading to AAA no matter what.

osuceltic
03-11-2009, 05:32 PM
I continue to resist the Urban Legend that Dusty is completely in love with vets. That wasn't so much true last year as he's stuck with our youngsters as the season progressed. I think the club (and that includes Dusty's input) will take the best players north and if Nix shows he's among that group, he'll come north. It's certainly possible that guys having options could preclude someone like Nix going to AAA, if things are close.


I agree. I think the truer statement is that Dusty doesn't favor the young guy. In other words, if it's even or close, he doesn't default to the young guy with what the fans perceive as upside. I think he makes the decision without tremendous consideration of age or upside. And I'm OK with that for the most part.

mth123
03-11-2009, 05:38 PM
I think Dusty favors guys with some Dusty history. Ward's dad was a contemporary of Dusty in the major leagues. They weren't teammates, but I think that gives Ward an edge.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 06:14 PM
Nix plays all three OF spots. Rosales does not.

They are working toward different spots on the roster.

I realize that, I was just saying that Rosales deserves a shot regardless...as in over Richar or one of the other IF utility guys. If Kepp continues to stink up the joint...I wouldn't have a problem with cutting him loose. And I'm a big fan of Kepp's. For me, it's all about production though.

As for the OF vacancies, I'm sure that just about all of those guys can play all 3 OF spots. It's just a matter of how well. Nix, Gomes, Jones, McDonald and Ward are all vying for the platoon with Dickerson. But IMO you've got to throw Hairston in there too. That pushes them back to FIFTH outfielders...I'm not carrying more than ONE of those guys. And so far, McDonald & Gomes have an edge over the other 3 IMO in regards to their performance. If you go on their past history as well as this spring, that knocks McDonald down several pegs. Bascially, as things stand now, I think it looks kinda like this....

C: Hernandez
1b: Votto
2b: Phillips
SS: Gonzo
3B: Edwin
RF: Bruce
CF: Taveras
LF: Platoon of Dickerson/Hairston
Utility IF: Rosales ~ I take him over Ward due to versatility and youth
Utility IF: Keppinger
Utility OF: Gomes ~ If Nix proves more valuable, I'll change this one, but for now Gomes has earned it.
BU C: Hanigan

SP: Harang
SP: Arroyo
SP: Volquez
SP: Cueto
SP: Bailey ~ I take him over Owings due to upside, youth and performance so far

Closer: Cordero
Setup: Burton
Setup: Bray
Setup: Weathers
Pen: Lincoln
Pen: Owings ~ I take him over Masset due to bat & better spot starter
Pen: Rhodes

That's 25. That leaves out Alonso, Hopper, Richar, Castillo, Tatum, Francisco, Janish, Fisher, LeCure, Herrera, Roenicke, Maloney, Manuel, Masset, Ramirez & Thompson from the guys currently on the 40-man roster. It also cuts loose all the non-roster invitees except for Gomes.

I hate to cut loose Masset, Herrera & Roenicke, but with all those BP signings (weathers, lincoln & rhodes) there's just not much room left.

membengal
03-11-2009, 06:35 PM
Gomes is NOT a CF candidate. Jones is not either.

mth123
03-11-2009, 06:38 PM
I realize that, I was just saying that Rosales deserves a shot regardless...as in over Richar or one of the other IF utility guys. If Kepp continues to stink up the joint...I wouldn't have a problem with cutting him loose. And I'm a big fan of Kepp's. For me, it's all about production though.

As for the OF vacancies, I'm sure that just about all of those guys can play all 3 OF spots. It's just a matter of how well. Nix, Gomes, Jones, McDonald and Ward are all vying for the platoon with Dickerson. But IMO you've got to throw Hairston in there too. That pushes them back to FIFTH outfielders...I'm not carrying more than ONE of those guys. And so far, McDonald & Gomes have an edge over the other 3 IMO.

Assuming Gonzales is the SS, when it comes to Utility IF my personal order would be Rosales, Richar, Janish and then Keppinger. Rosales may be the best all around player for offense, defense, baserunning and multi-position skill. Richar is a lefty bat, has some upside and the most speed, Janish is the best defensive infielder and Keppinger is basically just a guy who kills Lefty pitching but doesn't really have a position that he can play well (though I think he'd be a very good 1B defensively).

If Gonzalez is still short on range, I'd go with Janish to come in for defense (or just play every day). If there ends-up being no LH bat on the bench, I'd probably go with Richar. Otherwise I'd go with Rosales. The only way I'd go with Kepp would be if there was a clear role where he could platoon against LH pitching. The Reds have plenty of RH bats for the bench, and without any defensive value, I'd be looking to move Kepp for a prospect. Hairston is still on board and Valaika, Frazier and even Bolivar provide some depth if the injury disaster happens.

That said, I think Kepp's a lock for the 25 man roster.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 06:38 PM
Why do they have to be CF candidates? They only have to be OF filler. We've got Taveras, Hairston, Dickerson & Bruce who are all capable of playing center. OF position really doesn't matter in the current situation.

_Sir_Charles_
03-11-2009, 06:40 PM
Assuming Gonzales is the SS, when it comes to Utility IF my personal order would be Rosales, Richar, Janish and then Keppinger. Rosales may be the best all around player for offense, defense, baserunning and multi-position skill. Richar is a lefty bat, has some upside and the most speed, Janish is the best defensive infielder and Keppinger is basically just a guy who kills Lefty pitching but doesn't really have a position that he can play well (though I think he'd be a very good 1B defensively).

If Gonzalez is still short on range, I'd go with Janish to come in for defense (or just play every day). If there ends-up being no LH bat on the bench, I'd probably go with Richar. Otherwise I'd go with Rosales. The only way I'd go with Kepp would be if there was a clear role where he could platoon against LH pitching. The Reds have plenty of RH bats for the bench, and without any defensive value, I'd be looking to move Kepp for a prospect. Hairston is still on board and Valaika, Frazier and even Bolivar provide some depth if the injury disaster happens.

That said, I think Kepp's a lock for the 25 man roster.

I agree with all of that. While I love Kepp, he's running out of usefulness on this team with all of the other utility guys coming of age. At this point, I'd be shopping him too.

*BaseClogger*
03-11-2009, 07:02 PM
Mmmm... Spring Training stats! :luvu:

membengal
03-11-2009, 07:04 PM
Why do they have to be CF candidates? They only have to be OF filler. We've got Taveras, Hairston, Dickerson & Bruce who are all capable of playing center. OF position really doesn't matter in the current situation.

Bruce should never see CF unless an emergency. He needs to learn RF. Hairston shoulod never see CF unless it's an emergency, as well. I want a few options out there who are better than that. Nix would be one such option.

I like versatility from the 24th and 25th guys on the roster, and Nix brings FAR more of that than the others.

Bruce RF
Taveras CF
Dickerson/Gomes LF
Nix---back-up

Sir Charles wrote:


C: Hernandez
1b: Votto
2b: Phillips
SS: Gonzo
3B: Edwin
RF: Bruce
CF: Taveras
LF: Platoon of Dickerson/Hairston
Utility IF: Rosales ~ I take him over Ward due to versatility and youth
Utility IF: Keppinger
Utility OF: Gomes ~ If Nix proves more valuable, I'll change this one, but for now Gomes has earned it.
BU C: Hanigan

If you want Rosales, it is at Kepp's expense.

C Hernandez
1b Votto
2b Phillips
SS Gonzalez/Hairston
3b Encarnacion
RF Bruce
CF Taveras
LF Dickerson/Gomes
Utility IF---Kepp OR Rosales
Back-up C---Hanigan
5th OF---Nix

If they only keep 11 pitchers you could go one more position player.

Ron Madden
03-12-2009, 04:11 AM
Funny, I was just thinking that this game is a good example of how over-rated getting that extra base is.

1st Inning - Dickerson Steals third and Phillips doubles. Dickerson would have scored without taking that risk.

1st Inning - Phillips takes a risky extra base on a FO by Ward. Francisco singles and Phillips would have scored anyway.

2nd Inning - McDonald steals 2nd and Bruce GO to end the inning.

Three pleasing and exciting baserunnig plays, but none had any more to do with the outcome than me walking accross the street to get my mail.

Nothing wrong with good players who can add the dimension of stealing or taking the extra base to their games, but bypassing more basic things like Getting on Base and Power for the sake of having a guy who can steal bases is simply a poor choice. No amount of stolen bases can make up for the basics of getting on base and hitting for power.

Very well said. :beerme:

Ron Madden
03-12-2009, 04:36 AM
Thanks for the PBP. :thumbup:

VR
03-12-2009, 02:58 PM
Mmmm... Spring Training stats! :luvu:

Hey...they got CPatterson almost 400 ab's for the Reds last year....