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nemesis
03-12-2009, 03:22 AM
So I got to wondering... There seems to be alot of talent in AA and A+ this year. But after seeing last year and the reluctance to move players up in favor of foder makes me aprehensive about the way the kids will be handled this year...

In AAA your line up should be:

2B Richar
CF Stubbs
1B Bankston
RF Nix
3B Rosalas
LF Cumberland
SS Janish
C Tatum

WIth a bench of

Barker
McDonald
Castillo
Bolivar
Griffin

At AA which is where a number of future Reds will be stored it should be

CF Heisley
RF Henry
1B Alonso
2B Frazier
LF Dorn
SS Valakia
3B Fransisco
C Kroski

With guys like

Anderson
Rodriguez
Castro
DeJesus on the bench.

That still leaves guys like

C Mesorasco
1B Parker
2B Buchholtz
3B Soto
SS Cozart

in A ball. If the plan is really 2010/2011 for all this talent to rise, plus adding a few higher end prospects when Arroyo and Harang get delt away, as early as this year... How do these guys move up?


It almost feels to me on a position player sense that our AA is our AAA less Stubbs in terms of prospects.

If Mesorasco happens to catch fire he is really the only prospect that has that clear shot straight up the ladder...

I guess I am gun shy about the way its been handled in the past an if they will move these guys up... I mean the whole AA team could deserve a promotion by the all star break... Dorn and Henry already do in my opinion.

Opinions?

redsmetz
03-12-2009, 10:16 AM
I thought I heard a number of folks say last season that the Reds AAA club seem to have less "fodder" on it and certainly not much that was holding people back. I'm not versed in our minor leaguers, but it seems to me that's what I've heard around this board last year.

As for Mesoracco, I've heard a few express the desire for him to start again at Dayton to show he has legs before moving him up.

I do think we're getting in a position where we've got quite a number of prospects at various positions and will start experiencing some logjams. I've expressed the thought recently that we'll start seeing some movement with those logjams, either players moving up or trading some as chips. Whether those chips will be for ML ready talent or just stocking more farmhands, I can't say, but I think we'll see some movement. I'm liking our depth going forward. Of course, you can never have enough talent and it may be that some minor leaguer or another that we trade off will be a successful major league player, but that's what happens sometimes.

membengal
03-12-2009, 10:50 AM
I don't think you will see Nix in AAA, I think he plays in Cincy, which frees up an OF spot in L'ville.

nemesis
03-12-2009, 06:10 PM
I'd like to see Nix in Cincy but I have the Dusty feeling it'll be Ward.

Redsfan11
03-13-2009, 12:46 AM
In AAA I think you forgetting about Drew T Anderson who led Louisville in RBI's and Average! I was watching minor league camp today and in his first at bat he hit a homerun!

Kc61
03-13-2009, 06:29 PM
It looks like the Reds will be loaded at the AA and AAA levels this year.

The A ball levels have some good prospects -- Soto, Lotzkar, and Mesoraco for example -- but these levels seem to be less well stocked. This can be fixed, of course, by drafting some college players who can go directly to the A-ball levels.

But the AA and AAA teams are full of good prospects.

dougdirt
03-13-2009, 06:51 PM
It looks like the Reds will be loaded at the AA and AAA levels this year.

The A ball levels have some good prospects -- Soto, Lotzkar, and Mesoraco for example -- but these levels seem to be less well stocked. This can be fixed, of course, by drafting some college players who can go directly to the A-ball levels.

But the AA and AAA teams are full of good prospects.

While your premise is right about the A Ball teams, I think you might be underselling them some. Jeremy Horst, Juan Carlos Sulbaran, Alex Buchholz, Zach Cozart, Evan Hildenbrandt and Matt Fairel all should wind up in one of the A Ball leagues as well as the guys you named. Who knows who could make a Jeremy Horst type break out as well?

Kc61
03-13-2009, 07:12 PM
While your premise is right about the A Ball teams, I think you might be underselling them some. Jeremy Horst, Juan Carlos Sulbaran, Alex Buchholz, Zach Cozart, Evan Hildenbrandt and Matt Fairel all should wind up in one of the A Ball leagues as well as the guys you named. Who knows who could make a Jeremy Horst type break out as well?

Really just emphasizing how deep the AA and AAA levels are. Just look at all the pitching prospects -- Bailey, Ramirez, Maloney, Viola, Lecure, Thompson, Smith, Wood, Roenicke, Fisher, Herrera, probably Stewart at AA soon, Watson, and I'm sure I'm omitting some. Impressive list.

RED VAN HOT
03-15-2009, 04:43 PM
This has been a sore point with since last season. I had thought that this was going to be the year in which AAA was almost all prospects. I can understand the need to keep some veterans at AAA as insurance for a ML contender. I can also understand the need to put a winning product on the field for the paying customers at AAA. I do not believe that either of these reasons apply in this case. There is absolutely no justification for keeping Valaika, Dorn, and Henry at AA. They have nothing left to prove there. Move them along while they are still in their peak leaning years. We haven't even discussed pitching yet. I believe that is similarly congested at the uppper levels.

The downside of signing a number of ML options to minor league contracts is that eventually tough decisions have to be made. I had expected that Jones and Ward would be released early in order to give them a chance to catch on with other teams. With three full weeks of spring training left, it still may be too early to be concerned.

Mario-Rijo
03-15-2009, 05:33 PM
I definitely agree with those who say Henry, Valaika and Dorn need to be moved up. That said as RVH already stated it's necc. to keep a balance at AAA of prospects and backups for the bigs. However Dorn for example could use this extra time in AA to brush up against LHP, Valaika on his discipline and Henry getting a little extra time at various spots on the field CF, 2B, RF, LF. So it's not all bad. But bye midseason it will be necc. to move them up and possibly a few more as well. Let's look at it like this which I think is a bit more realistic.

MLB
OF:
Taveras
Bruce
Dickerson
Gomes

IF:
Votto
BP
EE
Gonzo
Kepp
Hernandez
Hanigan

IF/OF:
Hairston

These above are virtual locks at this point to make the 25 man, which is 12 of 25 with only one more spot available. Jones/Nix/Ward/Hopper are fighting for it. Jones is the most likely to be cut unless he really turns it around. Hopper doesn't really give us anything special we don't already have. Nix is younger and less durable than Ward and Ward specializes in coming off the bench and can play 1B and LF. Ward is a lock right now so Nix & Hopper will end up in AAA, unless there's something I don't know about. The question I have though is about minor league roster limits, I know it's a tad different but how? I cannot recall if there is even a 25 man limit or not.

If Gonzo can't go BTW and is put on the DL then I suspect Rosales or Janish will make the 25 man instead of another OF although not neccessarily with Kepps presence.

membengal
03-15-2009, 05:39 PM
I could not disagree more on Ward being a "lock".

Mario-Rijo
03-15-2009, 05:42 PM
I could not disagree more on Ward being a "lock".

I shouldn't have called it a lock but I see it as being inevitable at any rate.

Scrap Irony
03-15-2009, 06:21 PM
AAA lineup, barring trades IMO:
1B Barker/ Ward
2B Richar/ Janish
SS Valaika
3B Rosales
LF Dorn
CF Stubbs
RF Cumberland
C Tatum

Henry 2B/ OF/ DH
Eymann 3B/ SS/ DH

Can't decide which would be more beneficial for Henry-- to play 2B at Chattanooga and hit 320/375/475 while perhaps being labelled a minor league lifer or to DH, play all three OF spots, and play some 2B at AAA while maybe being called AAAA filler/ bench ballast. If Jocketty decides on AAA, Eymann is probably out, as Rosales needs to play and 3B is the only spot left open.

Of course, I'm assuming one of Richar or Janish gets released so that Gomes takes a 40-man roster spot, though Tatum could pass through. (His hot spring so far doesn't help that to happen, though.) This would make the other the starting 2B in Louisville and likely ninth place hitter.

I'm also torn on 1B, as either Barker or Ward may take that one. Ward has the better major league numbers, but may want to test the waters if he doesn't make the Reds. If he does go the FA route, Barker becomes the starting 1B, though Dorn will probably play enough there to make himself that much more attractive to either Cincinnati or another, more astute team.

Putting together a batting order with this team is fun. Dorn could net 120 RBI if left alone all season in the cleanup spot. Stubbs and Valaika are surely the top two in the lineup and I'm guessing Rosales hits third, though Dorn could go there with Barker/ Ward hitting fourth. Cumberland and Henry re-start the offense in the six and seven holes, with Tatum eight and Janish or Richar hitting ninth.

That's a pretty darn solid AAA lineup and the likely league champ.

What will interesting is what could happen at the All Star break, if Alonso, Francisco, and/or Frazier are beating up AA Caroline (a distinct possibility in that ballpark). Alonso is an easy fix, but what to do with Frazier? 3B? Perhaps. Rosales could then go to 2B an the lineup becomes downright scary.

Nice problem to have, IMO.

At AA, meanwhile, the lineup is a bit easier, IMO:
CF Heisey
SS Frazier
1B Alonso
3B Francisco
DH Parker
2B Eymann/ Henry
RF Szymanksi/ D. Anderson
LF Kainer/ DeJesus
C Tordi/ Kroski/ Rodriguez

Not as solid in the OF, certainly. (Another reason Henry may go back to AA, though he has nothing left to prove there.) The IF looks really solid. And that lineup, 1-6, is as solid as any in the minor leagues. Eymann is the sleeper in the group. He deserves to be in AAA, but, in order to shine, may have to play 2b, SS, and 3b in AA and put up monster numbers in the bandbox in Carolina.

OnBaseMachine
03-15-2009, 09:10 PM
A few tidbits that someone wanted me to pass along:

-Danny Dorn has been playing a lot of first base since Tonys Gutierrez is no longer in the organization.

-BJ Szymanski has retired.

-Sean Henry has been taking groundballs and working out in the middle infield.

Kc61
03-16-2009, 02:03 AM
A few tidbits that someone wanted me to pass along:

-Danny Dorn has been playing a lot of first base since Tonys Gutierrez is no longer in the organization.

-BJ Szymanski has retired.

-Sean Henry has been taking groundballs and working out in the middle infield.

Anyone know where Gutierrez is playing? What organization?

JaxRed
03-16-2009, 08:46 AM
A few tidbits that someone wanted me to pass along:

-Danny Dorn has been playing a lot of first base since Tonys Gutierrez is no longer in the organization.

-BJ Szymanski has retired.

-Sean Henry has been taking groundballs and working out in the middle infield.

You could see the BJ thing coming. Too bad.

Henry going to MI makes a lot of sense, his numbers don't impress you as in OF, but as a 2b they do.

But Dorn to 1b doesn't make much sense. That puts him behind Votto and Alonso. You'd think if he has chances to make bigs with Reds it would be as part of platoon in OF.

Man, we have a lot of lefty 1b/OF's: Bruce, Alonso, Votto, Dickerson, Dorn.

Cooper
03-16-2009, 09:01 AM
Heisey is the guy i'd like to see nurtured. Hes a very good backup plan (Center Field) in case Stubbs doesn't cut it His bat is almost the same as Stubbs and I'd venture to say his glove is better than Stubbs.

It's kinda silly to put him in RF cause his bat is never gonna carry him if he plays that position, but if you leave him in CF you could have one of those guys who plays A+ defense and has an obp of .320. That's a really nice 4th/5th OFer.

In my way of thinking, they have underestimated what they have in Heisey.

OnBaseMachine
03-16-2009, 11:09 AM
You could see the BJ thing coming. Too bad.


At least he has a degree from Princeton to fall back on.

PoliKarpas
03-16-2009, 01:48 PM
The Reds have not yet released a 2009 minor-league spring training schedule. Anyone know when they plan on doing so?

dougdirt
03-16-2009, 02:00 PM
The Reds have not yet released a 2009 minor-league spring training schedule. Anyone know when they plan on doing so?

What kind of schedule are you looking for?

PoliKarpas
03-16-2009, 02:15 PM
When the minor league squads (A/A and AA/AAA combined teams) are going to play spring training games, where and against whom.

dougdirt
03-16-2009, 02:29 PM
When the minor league squads (A/A and AA/AAA combined teams) are going to play spring training games, where and against whom.

I am busy right now, but check back later today and I will post it for you.

redhawk61
03-16-2009, 02:42 PM
Heisey is the guy i'd like to see nurtured. Hes a very good backup plan (Center Field) in case Stubbs doesn't cut it His bat is almost the same as Stubbs and I'd venture to say his glove is better than Stubbs.

It's kinda silly to put him in RF cause his bat is never gonna carry him if he plays that position, but if you leave him in CF you could have one of those guys who plays A+ defense and has an obp of .320. That's a really nice 4th/5th OFer.

In my way of thinking, they have underestimated what they have in Heisey.
Yeah....no..... He has a good glove, but not Stubbs good, let alone one that is better.

JaxRed
03-16-2009, 04:30 PM
When the minor league squads (A/A and AA/AAA combined teams) are going to play spring training games, where and against whom.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73883

tripleaaaron
03-16-2009, 04:34 PM
But Dorn to 1b doesn't make much sense. That puts him behind Votto and Alonso. You'd think if he has chances to make bigs with Reds it would be as part of platoon in OF.

Man, we have a lot of lefty 1b/OF's: Bruce, Alonso, Votto, Dickerson, Dorn.

All they are doing is making him a more diverse and more valuable player. Dorn being able to platoon in LF or at 1B makes him more valuable in a trade or if one of Alonso or Votto is traded.

RED VAN HOT
03-16-2009, 05:25 PM
Heisey is the guy i'd like to see nurtured. Hes a very good backup plan (Center Field) in case Stubbs doesn't cut it His bat is almost the same as Stubbs and I'd venture to say his glove is better than Stubbs.

It's kinda silly to put him in RF cause his bat is never gonna carry him if he plays that position, but if you leave him in CF you could have one of those guys who plays A+ defense and has an obp of .320. That's a really nice 4th/5th OFer.

In my way of thinking, they have underestimated what they have in Heisey.

With the exception of your defense comparison, I agree. The consensus on the board is that Heisey is a 4th OF'er at best. I believe that assessment places too much emphasis on power numbers. As a CF'er some power can be traded for speed. Moreover, I believe he will eventually show 15+ HR power and OPS 800+ at ML level. Stubbs gets the nod at the moment only because his plus power potential, if realized, would make him an elite CF with speed, power, and defense. It's not too often that one of those comes along. Stubbs, however, still has contact issues that Heisey does not have. I hope the Reds keep Heisey in the mix. I believe he will play CF for someone, if not the Reds. This year will tell us a lot.

membengal
03-23-2009, 11:37 PM
I shouldn't have called it a lock but I see it as being inevitable at any rate.


Bump.

NOT inevitable.

sandhills
03-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Why isnt Drew Anderson being mentioned more often?? So far this year he is 18-34...with 3 hr's. He led the AAA Bats last year in average(.290) and was in the top 3 on the team in almost every offensive category. All that with being injured the last half of the year. Last year he was one of the offensive leaders during spring training with the Reds. But this year...they dont even call him up to camp??? There are guys he played with last year that didnt come close to matching him in production, but yet they are given a look at camp!! Am I missing something?? What gives??!

RED VAN HOT
03-28-2009, 11:16 PM
Why isnt Drew Anderson being mentioned more often?? So far this year he is 18-34...with 3 hr's. He led the AAA Bats last year in average(.290) and was in the top 3 on the team in almost every offensive category. All that with being injured the last half of the year. Last year he was one of the offensive leaders during spring training with the Reds. But this year...they dont even call him up to camp??? There are guys he played with last year that didnt come close to matching him in production, but yet they are given a look at camp!! Am I missing something?? What gives??!

I am no authority, but my guess is that he is one of those good ball players who, unfortunately, does not fit a ML profile. He is a corner OF with only average power. He has above average speed, but not enough to play CF or be a strong base stealing threat. Also, his age is working against him. If Stubbs puts up the same hitting numbers this year as Drew Anderson did last year, he is in Cincy next year (because of speed and defense). I would think Drew Anderson has a shot as a 4th OF if he can hit over .330 at AAA. Hopper was about the same age when an outstanding AAA season got him to the bigs.

Redsfan11
03-29-2009, 01:20 AM
I agree that Drew Anderson is probably a backup outfielder and they are looking at other people to see what they got in the system. I think he could be as good of fourth outfielder as we got in the system because from past stats he is consistently a solid hitter and fielder. We don't have many ofer's that are consistent and have the numbers he has maybe he needs a better look.

sandhills
03-29-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm not saying he should be a starter in cincy...but I know they are short on lefties, and his on-base percentage is good as well. It just surprises me that his name doesnt get mentioned more often or that they dont even give him a shot. Especially when he was so productive last year and has started red hot this spring.

Mario-Rijo
03-30-2009, 01:21 AM
Bump.

NOT inevitable.

:p: