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Root Down
03-17-2009, 05:31 PM
Here is a great article on EPSN about the youth in Cincinnati's program that is worth a read. "Scouts who have followed the Reds this spring have talked nonstop about the energy that seems to jump off the field at you when you watch them." What do you think? I think we've got something worth getting excited over here. I wouldn't be surprised to see this team in the playoffs / World Series very soon. It's all starting to come together.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=3989234

RedLakerFan24
03-17-2009, 05:46 PM
Wow the reds actually getting some love, i think we need one bat to make it to the playoffs, Phillips wont do it in the 4th spot in the Lineup we need someone like Alex Rios, Bobby Abreu, they may not be the best 4th hitter but could do better than phillips

DTCromer
03-17-2009, 08:10 PM
I don't think there's actually A LOT of energy on the field, I just think it looks that way after seeing what's been going on the past 7-8 years.

TheNext44
03-17-2009, 09:13 PM
To be honest, I was down in spring training last year, and everyone was saying the same thing about the energy level and attitude of the team.

Energy, attitude and team chemistry are great, but they only result in wins if you have the talent to win. IMO, winning creates team chemistry not the other way around.

That said, I do like the make up of the team and more importantly the organization. I like Root Down, see a much brighter future for this team.

gedred69
03-17-2009, 09:24 PM
Seems like a lot of pressure is put on the shoulders of Votto and Bruce. That's a gimme, as they have either shown, or we expect them to show that they are the future. Watching the Reds last week at ST, they also need for EE to become all he can be. Phillips is a rock with his glove and professional hitting capability. Votto, Bruce, EE need to stand and deliver, then maybe we got something.

Ghosts of 1990
03-17-2009, 09:45 PM
It's great to hear this and I hope its true.......

..... but I do worry. A few things are suspect to me. Every time I look up we're scoring 1 run..... I guess you can't judge ST performances at all really. They are no indicator of success. I'm just paranoid.

Root Down
03-17-2009, 09:49 PM
Votto's rookie season showed that he will be a force to be reckoned with on that field in years to come. Granted, bad things can happen but there is no reason to think he won't continue the trend he set last year. I think Bruce showed much of the same even though he did come down from his superman start. EE is still young and it seems to me that everyone expects him to be the solid old vet. His numbers aren't the best but he just turned 26 in January. The man is still developing. I agree, these three (with the always solid BP) need to develop as ball players hopefully sooner rather than later, but I for one am not too worried about that happening.

goreds2
03-17-2009, 10:21 PM
One of our bats needs to have a red hot April and carry us to a few games over .500 and then gain confidence for the remainder of the season. When/if this happens, everyone else can relax and play their game.

Jerome
03-18-2009, 12:16 AM
ESPN writers are so fluffy and melodramatic, and try to be so cutting-edge with their phrasing. "But let us be the first to warn you: There's something happening here in Reds Land. Something building. Something growing."

Volquez still doesn't get the love he deserves for last year. That article was the Bruce/Votto show.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

Eric_the_Red
03-18-2009, 04:44 AM
The last time I can remember two young hitters getting this kind of love for the Reds was....Dunn and Kearns. :(

Let's hope Bruce and Votto have a better record.

joe51391
03-18-2009, 08:58 AM
Why don't the reds bat phillips 2nd bruce 3rd votto 4th and encarnacion 5th. I for one are already getting sick and tired of hearing this lefty righty lefty righty all the time. votto and bruce are your two best hitters so make them your 3rd and 4th batters. Phillips is much more better suited for the 2 hole. Play to your strengths not situations.

schmidty622
03-18-2009, 09:26 AM
Why don't the reds bat phillips 2nd bruce 3rd votto 4th and encarnacion 5th. I for one are already getting sick and tired of hearing this lefty righty lefty righty all the time. votto and bruce are your two best hitters so make them your 3rd and 4th batters. Phillips is much more better suited for the 2 hole. Play to your strengths not situations.

Bruce hasn't shown that he's one of our "best hitters" yet. The lineup in my eyes should be like this:

Tavares (Not Ideal but its going to happen)
Dickerson/Gomes
Votto
EE
Bruce
Phillips
Hernandez
Gonzo
Pitcher

Phillips can't get on base so he should hit 5th or 6th depending on if he's facing a righty or lefty.

xavr1
03-18-2009, 10:15 AM
You have to move Phillips up from 6th

schmidty622
03-18-2009, 10:25 AM
You have to move Phillips up from 6th

Why? He doesn't get on base.

Eric_the_Red
03-18-2009, 12:27 PM
Why? He doesn't get on base.

You have to look at more than OBP. If that is your only critieria, and you wanted to get the high OBP guys more ABs, then you would have alineup that started with your highest OBP player and decreased down the lineup. And I'm sure that would go over like a lead balloon for the players and fans.

schmidty622
03-18-2009, 12:33 PM
You have to look at more than OBP. If that is your only critieria, and you wanted to get the high OBP guys more ABs, then you would have alineup that started with your highest OBP player and decreased down the lineup. And I'm sure that would go over like a lead balloon for the players and fans.

What else should I look at to justify Phillips hitting 2nd or 4th?

fugowitribe
03-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Seems like a lot of pressure is put on the shoulders of Votto and Bruce. That's a gimme, as they have either shown, or we expect them to show that they are the future. Watching the Reds last week at ST, they also need for EE to become all he can be. Phillips is a rock with his glove and professional hitting capability. Votto, Bruce, EE need to stand and deliver, then maybe we got something.

Imo to put pressure on Jay may not be such a bad thing. He knew how to answer the call in a big way when he made his debut last year. Votto would be the one to worry about. I believe Jay is going to have that big start that everyone thinks we need. IMO he will give us hope at the end of April and hopefully pull things together with that "energy" and give us Reds fans a contender.

Root Down
03-18-2009, 12:40 PM
What else should I look at to justify Phillips hitting 2nd or 4th?

I'll take a stab at it. For 2nd I would look at a players ability to put the ball in play to advance the runner. For cleanup I guess you would look at RBIs, a player's ability to bring them in.

schmidty622
03-18-2009, 01:06 PM
I'll take a stab at it. For 2nd I would look at a players ability to put the ball in play to advance the runner. For cleanup I guess you would look at RBIs, a player's ability to bring them in.


Brandon strikes out too much and hits into the double play too much for the first one and he showed last year that he doesn't drive in runners all that well either. Almost a full year of batting 4th and he had what 70 some RBIs?

xavr1
03-18-2009, 01:54 PM
The Reds problem is that no one has a great OBP. So if thats your criteria, you would probably have to move Taveras to the 8 spot. His is worse than BP's. I dont have any reason to believe whoever is in LF will get on base anymore than BP.

I absolutely agree with you that he hits into WAY too many double plays and that's certainly something Dusty needs to consider.

schmidty622
03-18-2009, 02:08 PM
The Reds problem is that no one has a great OBP. So if thats your criteria, you would probably have to move Taveras to the 8 spot. His is worse than BP's. I dont have any reason to believe whoever is in LF will get on base anymore than BP.

I absolutely agree with you that he hits into WAY too many double plays and that's certainly something Dusty needs to consider.

No doubt they are missing a great OBP guy, That's one of the biggest problems with this team. And I am not an advocate for hitting the highest OBP in the first or second spot as a hard and fast rule. I do agree that there have to be other factors in play, I just do not see Phillips as a two hole hitter because of his free swinging nature.

Oh and I would love to see Tavaras hit 8th. Thats where he needs to be.

bounty37h
03-18-2009, 04:22 PM
Bruce hasn't shown that he's one of our "best hitters" yet. The lineup in my eyes should be like this:

Tavares (Not Ideal but its going to happen)
Dickerson/Gomes
Votto
EE
Bruce
Phillips
Hernandez
Gonzo
Pitcher

Phillips can't get on base so he should hit 5th or 6th depending on if he's facing a righty or lefty.


So you want to put the microwave in at cleanup, thinking Bruce hasn't proven he can hit yet?

schmidty622
03-18-2009, 04:23 PM
So you want to put the microwave in at cleanup, thinking Bruce hasn't proven he can hit yet?

Microwave? And I have Bruce hitting 5th, Phillips 6th. Would probably flop those depending on the pitcher they were facing.

Kingspoint
03-18-2009, 08:15 PM
This is one team where I think the Pythagorean will be way off.

I see 87 Wins. No ifs, ands, or buts, about it.

Roush's socks
03-19-2009, 12:29 AM
If the Reds defense is as good as their hoping it will make a difference.

I am surprised their is so much focus on the hitting when really it's the pitching that looks potentially very good. Volquez had a better season last year than anyone on the current team. They have good depth, with several options at the 5th starting spot.

The hitting will be hampered by the low OBP and lack of power. That is a bad combination.

JBChance
03-19-2009, 02:26 AM
Energy, enthusiasm, attitude, aggresiveness, hunger, chemistry, etc are all buzzwords that get thrown around in spring training every year. While enthusiasm is a good thing to have, it doesn't win games; Talent, ability, and skill win games. We've had 8 losing seasons in a row, but, every year, in March, we get the same "enthusiastic" quotes:

--"Guys are getting the job done fundamentally. The play looks cleaner. I really genuinely do see a difference on the field." (Votto '09)
--"I think, from my view, everybody is giving it their all at Spring Training. Not disrespecting nobody, but it's hard not seeing people give it their all at Spring Training. Sometimes, they want to chill out and wait until the season begins. That's not the case here this year. It's been unbelievable." (Cordero '09)
--"I don't know how to describe it, it's just a different feeling. There's a different feeling around the clubhouse." (Dunn, '08)
--"You have guys that work harder, getting here earlier and ready to go each day. There's more continuous effort. When everybody gets in, they're trying to produce, one way or another." (Harang, '08)
--"We have to get it done," (Arroyo, '07)
--"We've got a lot of good players coming in and the same ones we had success with are back. It's hard not to expect to do more than we did last year. If we don't expect to do better next year, something is wrong." (Ross '07)
--"The team chemistry is great. Pretty much every year we've had a great team chemistry." (Larue '06)

Believe me, I've gotten excited almost every spring reading this stuff. But, these great attitudes and enthusiasm haven't exactly translated to wins;

The ability to get on base wins games.
Having the talent to dominate a game from the mound wins games.
The ability to drive a ball to the gap wins games.
The defensive skill to grab a grounder in the hole wins games.

Anymore to me, when a team says its "hoping a new attitude leads to more wins", that doesn't inspire any confidence. I don't want them to be "hoping" on anything. They should amass the talent, through drafting/ development, trading and signing FA, to know that we will have a good club that will win games. Sure, sometimes a perfect storm of young talent emerging, veteran comebacks and luck will work for a short time, maybe even a season. But, if you want to build a winning organization, talent is the only way.

So which is it?

Do we have an energetic, overachieving team that will stumble it's way to an enthusiastic 74 wins? Or, do we have a talented club that has the ability to hit, pitch, and field its way to solid, steady 85 - 90 wins?

My answer is that energy, enthusiasm, and attitude won't be enough this year because we didn't add enough talent to the roster to get it done. There is a group of young players here with ability, just not enough. We'll have to wait until the next young crop comes from the farm.

Then, if the team adds enough pieces, we can be a winner. They can be as energetic as they want, then. :thumbup:

xavr1
03-19-2009, 09:49 AM
[QUOTE=Roush's socks;1817214]If the Reds defense is as good as their hoping it will make a difference. QUOTE]

I definitely agree about your comments on the importance of defense. Most of you probably saw Joe Maddon's comments on Fay's blog the other day when asked to compare the Rays and Reds. He mentioned that the most important thing for a team like the Reds is to "be able to catch the ball" and play sound fundamental D. That alone will win us 5-10 games.

Ghosts of 1990
03-19-2009, 10:08 AM
Everytime I see this thread I think of our 'anthem' for 2009,

Paint the Town Red! (http://www.diamondhoggers.com/2009/02/if-you-can-stand-it-this-is-reds-2009.html)

bounty37h
03-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Microwave? And I have Bruce hitting 5th, Phillips 6th. Would probably flop those depending on the pitcher they were facing.

Yup, EdE, he is either on and hot, or off and just there.