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Playadlc
03-20-2009, 02:34 AM
I feel like I am making posts like this too often here, but I really respect the way people on this board think. So I am seeking some more advice from you guys. If this post is in the wrong place, please move.

Here is the situation....

I am an assistant coach for a local high school baseball team. We are a very small school with only about 150 students in the high school and with so many sports and so few students we only have about 11-15 kids a year come out for baseball.

I have always encouraged our players to play as many sports as they want to. Especially in their freshmen and sophomore years because with a lot of kids you never know what they are going to be best at, so why put all your eggs in one basket? Well, our basketball coach thinks differently....

We were having practice yesterday and the basketball coach ran into one of our players in the hallway when he was getting a drink. This kid plays both basketball and baseball. The basketball coach asked the kid if he was going to be at practice next week. Now, I am not really sure why they are having basketball practice two weeks after being eliminated from the sectional, but whatever....the kid tells him (paraphrasing) "No, I am not going to be there because we have just started baseball and I am going to be at baseball practice." The basketball coach then tells him, "Well, you are going to get behind in basketball and get passed up by someone else". Basically trying to make the kid feel like crap for playing baseball.

I find this ridiculous. It pisses me off because this kid has a chance to play college baseball somewhere, and this coach is pressuring him to only play basketball. He is not looking out for the best interest of the kid.

I have talked to our head baseball coach and we are really unsure about what to do. We have serious numbers problems as it is, and the basketball coach pressuring kids to not play baseball does not help. I mean, I am really scared that he is going to do this to about 5 incoming freshmen next year, and here in the near future we may not have the numbers to field a baseball team.

What do we do? Do we confront the basketball coach about it, or go straight to the principal and see what he says? Or am I overreacting and do we just leave this situation alone?

Advice here would be appreciated.

Razor Shines
03-20-2009, 03:35 AM
I went to a small school also. My brother is an assistant basketball coach there and my Dad is the baseball coach, so I can definitely relate to the situation.

I say go to the AD. Being as this is an Indiana school and I went to high school in Indiana I am quite sure that basketball is the #1 sport at the school. You need to tell the AD that if you're going to have a baseball program then the basketball coach cannot be discouraging the top athletes from playing baseball. The basketball coach needs to cut the crap or the school shouldn't offer baseball at all. Like you said you're working with a limited number of athletes and you have to behave differently than a big school with a large pool of athletes to choose from. For small schools to have a chance to compete there has to be cooperation between the sports.

I realize that there is a good possibility that the AD is also the basketball coach, and in that case you should still tell him the same thing, but you're probably screwed.

I'm really interested in hearing how this plays out, keep me updated.

Playadlc
03-20-2009, 04:27 AM
I should have mentioned that right now we have a lame duck AD. He is out at the end of this year. So right now, any situation that comes up is being dealt with by the principal. The AD really has no power.

The other thing that we are working against is the principal and basketball coach are extremely close. The principal is from Maryland, and in his second year on the job he fired the basketball coach to bring in the current guy who just so happened to be assosiated with the same school in Maryland. I talked to the AD about this and he said he basically had no say in the hiring process.

A lot of things working against us here.

Roy Tucker
03-20-2009, 08:01 AM
You know, I think I'd try talking to the basketball coach first. Give him a chance. Just plainly lay out the numbers situation, explain how mixing sports is good for the kids, and ask him for help with it.

If it goes well, you've developed a good working relationship and a spirit of cooperation. If you preemptively go over his head without giving him a shot, you're probably making at least not an ally and at most an enemy.

Now, if he's a total idiot about the whole thing, well, at least you gave it a try. Then go the principal/AD route.

And I'm a little surprised they are allowed to still have basketball practice. Isn't their season over when eliminated from the playoffs? Or is this one of those "voluntary" workouts?

TeamSelig
03-20-2009, 08:10 AM
I'd take the head coach and have a talk with the basketball coach.

Also, isn't there rules against practicing out of season? I was always told you can't start baseball practice until a certain date.

remdog
03-20-2009, 08:47 AM
I'd also go and speak with the basketball coach (take the head baseball coach with you) and lay out the scenario. You're all coaches and maybe there's a way to work this out. Chat over coffee or something.

How long has the basketball coach been there? Maybe he came from a larger school and is used to doing things differently than a small school.

Also, you said the player in question has the possibility of getting a scholarship for baseball. Does he have the same potential in basketball or is his best sport baseball? Appeal to the basketball coach to put the player first---after all, that's how it should work.

Rem

RANDY IN INDY
03-20-2009, 09:01 AM
The high school baseball season is not long. The kid has all summer to work on his basketball. I think you or, better yet, the head coach need to talk with this basketball guru that thinks he has to practice two weeks after the season ends. If the kid is a good athlete, which he probably is, he is not going to lose any of his basketball skills by playing a short spring baseball season. Sometimes, it is best to let the body take a break from the same monotonous basketball drills to let it heal. He will, most likely, come back a better and refreshed basketball player. Some of these coaches are completely over the top. The guilt that they place on kids is unbelievable.

I am with Rem. Does the kid have the same potential in basketball as he does in baseball? Sometimes, the high school kids put the more prestigious sport in the forefront, even if their talent says they are better and more apt to get a college "look" in the less-prestigious sport. That is not good for the kid, long-term, but most don't understand that at such a young age, particularly if they are getting pressured.

LawFive
03-21-2009, 12:50 AM
Not sure about Indiana, but OHSAA has a mandatory 28 day no-contact period after each season, partially to prevent this very type of thing.

Playadlc
03-21-2009, 01:01 AM
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the advice.

I will keep you guys updated when I find out what the head coach wants to do.

Playadlc
04-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Thought I would give an update...

Our head coach has officially resigned effective the end of the season. It wasn't because of the basketball coach, it had more to do with him feeling like he wasn't having the impact on the kids that he wanted. While I disagree with him, there was no talking him out of it.

I am going to apply for the head coaching job when this season is over. It's going to be tough considering I am not a teacher, but I do believe I could do this job well. I have grown very fond of these kids. One thing that I have learned this year is coaching is a heck of a lot more than hitting and throwing a ball around. You can make a real impact in a young person's life. I love it.

Now I just gotta convince the principal to give me a shot. :)

Degenerate39
04-13-2009, 07:10 PM
I feel like I am making posts like this too often here, but I really respect the way people on this board think. So I am seeking some more advice from you guys. If this post is in the wrong place, please move.

Here is the situation....

I am an assistant coach for a local high school baseball team. We are a very small school with only about 150 students in the high school and with so many sports and so few students we only have about 11-15 kids a year come out for baseball.

I have always encouraged our players to play as many sports as they want to. Especially in their freshmen and sophomore years because with a lot of kids you never know what they are going to be best at, so why put all your eggs in one basket? Well, our basketball coach thinks differently....

We were having practice yesterday and the basketball coach ran into one of our players in the hallway when he was getting a drink. This kid plays both basketball and baseball. The basketball coach asked the kid if he was going to be at practice next week. Now, I am not really sure why they are having basketball practice two weeks after being eliminated from the sectional, but whatever....the kid tells him (paraphrasing) "No, I am not going to be there because we have just started baseball and I am going to be at baseball practice." The basketball coach then tells him, "Well, you are going to get behind in basketball and get passed up by someone else". Basically trying to make the kid feel like crap for playing baseball.

I find this ridiculous. It pisses me off because this kid has a chance to play college baseball somewhere, and this coach is pressuring him to only play basketball. He is not looking out for the best interest of the kid.

I have talked to our head baseball coach and we are really unsure about what to do. We have serious numbers problems as it is, and the basketball coach pressuring kids to not play baseball does not help. I mean, I am really scared that he is going to do this to about 5 incoming freshmen next year, and here in the near future we may not have the numbers to field a baseball team.

What do we do? Do we confront the basketball coach about it, or go straight to the principal and see what he says? Or am I overreacting and do we just leave this situation alone?

Advice here would be appreciated.


It may differ from state to state but I don't believe you're allowed to have mandatory practices after season. May have to go to the principal about this if it's a continued problem. Or try talking to the kid and see what he wants to do first.

remdog
04-13-2009, 07:54 PM
Thought I would give an update...

Our head coach has officially resigned effective the end of the season. It wasn't because of the basketball coach, it had more to do with him feeling like he wasn't having the impact on the kids that he wanted. While I disagree with him, there was no talking him out of it.

I am going to apply for the head coaching job when this season is over. It's going to be tough considering I am not a teacher, but I do believe I could do this job well. I have grown very fond of these kids. One thing that I have learned this year is coaching is a heck of a lot more than hitting and throwing a ball around. You can make a real impact in a young person's life. I love it.

Now I just gotta convince the principal to give me a shot. :)

Good for you! That's a great attitude! The kids always come first and everything else second. Do that the right way and they'll win as well, whether it's on or off the field.

Best wishes for you and your gameplan.

Rem

IslandRed
04-13-2009, 10:02 PM
I am going to apply for the head coaching job when this season is over.

Good on you. However, I would be clarifying this issue first. If it's going to be de facto official policy that Basketball Guy gets what he wants and baseball gets the leavings, you'll want to know that up front.

But yes, the best interests of the kids should come first.

Now, about that... Basketball Guy is right about one thing. If two kids are equally talented and one spends all year playing hoops and going to camps and the other spends two-thirds of the year doing something else, the gym rat is going to have an advantage come next season. Nothing diabolical about it, that's just how it is. And given how expensive college is these days, the competition for scholarships is intense and single-sport tracking is becoming more and more of the norm. Such tunnel vision is not necessarily going to produce happy, well-rounded kids, but that's a decision for kids and families to make.

TC81190
04-13-2009, 11:16 PM
I am sure it has been said, but no, you really are not being unreasonable in being pissed at the basketball coach. I think the way you should go about business with this would be to confront him with the situation you've laid out, and maybe put forth the situation for your player. Maybe he doesn't realize the kid has a bright baseball future? At any rate, just see if the guy can be reasonable. If not, then maybe I would start taking it up with administration.

Highlifeman21
04-15-2009, 05:34 PM
The correct answer is slash the Hoops coach's tires.

On a more serious note, as previously stated, you need to establish a working relationship as coaching brethren for the school. Also, have you talked to coaches in other sports at your school? Maybe they're experiencing similar difficulties with the Hoops coach?

My graduating class was 97. I think my Senior year, we had maybe 450 kids in 9 - 12. So, we had numbers issues with sports in the same seasons. We were a cross country, soccer, basketball, wrestling, baseball, distance running school. In the Fall, cross country and soccer took from football, and they both took from the marching band. In the Winter, hoops and wrestling didn't have any conflict, b/c they were really different style/type athletes. However, when Spring rolled around, baseball took from track big time. Our sprinters all played baseball for the most part, so our team sucked outside the conference for events like the 100, 200 and 400, but we had athletes for the 800, mile and 2 mile, b/c they were all the cross country runners that basically didn't play baseball.

The best part about all the conflict was the communication between the coaches. For example, our League/Conference meet, we had all hands on deck in terms of athletes, b/c the baseball coach made sure he didn't schedule games so we could send our very best athletes to represent our school. As a way of saying thank you, the baseball coach asked a couple of the sprinters (me included) to join the team for a game against a weak non-conference team, so he could rest the starters, and in the process let us have some fun.

Bottomline, you need to have a working relationship with the Hoops coach, or else he'll constantly try and scoop your talent.

Playadlc
07-29-2009, 09:13 PM
Not sure if anyone cares, but I thought I'd give an update.

At the end of this baseball season we won the sectional title, beating two top ten teams. We actually won the championship game on the opposing teams (#6 in the state) home field. It was the first sectional title our school has won in any sport since 2004. We lost a nail-bitter in the regional and finished the season at 16-11.

After the state tournament our new AD came to me and said I had the job. He said that he would be an idiot to not keep it in-staff after winning a sectional with only 11 players. Well, a month went by and I didn't hear a thing. So finally I called him to ask him what the deal was and he told me that we need to meet ASAP because he needed to ask me a couple questions.

Now, I know this is probably going to be bad because I am a professional poker player and I am coaching at a christian school. FWIW, I am a christian and see nothing wrong with what I do. I have been a poker player for 3 and a half years and I have had one losing month in the time frame. I don't really consider what I do as gambling. I have supported my family for three years playing poker. Not to mention, I have never really understood why some Christians view gambling as wrong. The Bible talks nothing of it. That's for another thread, though.

The AD asks me exactly what I thought he was going to and says "What do you do for a living?" I told him that I play poker, and he said that he simply can't hire someone here that plays poker for a living. He is simply not comfortable with it.

Sucks. I wanted this job, too. I got really attached to our players. Oh well...I am not going to quit coaching, though. I love it. Hopefully I can find another coaching job somewhere. :thumbup:

Highlifeman21
07-30-2009, 10:17 AM
Now it's time to slash the AD's tires...

Hoosier Red
07-30-2009, 10:24 AM
Now it's time to slash the AD's tires...

What? Didn't you read he's a poker player. Have one of the mob goons do it. Jeez.

durl
07-30-2009, 10:46 AM
The organization has a right to establish guidelines and, if you want to work for them, you'll have to agree to abide by their rules.

While some churches may not view gambling as a vice, many do. As you said, such a discussion might require another thread...

TeamSelig
07-30-2009, 12:18 PM
So you play poker... as your job?

oneupper
07-30-2009, 01:27 PM
If you were a stock market trader, he'd have no problem with it.

Done professionally, there isn't much difference between the two.

Sorry to hear your story.

durl
07-30-2009, 01:57 PM
If you were a stock market trader, he'd have no problem with it.

Done professionally, there isn't much difference between the two.

Sorry to hear your story.

I see a bit more difference. It's true that success in both is not guaranteed, but there is a difference.

In trading stocks, the value of my stocks increases as the company becomes more profitable. Wealth is (hopefully) created. Both parties can benefit.

In gambling, one person gains money only when another loses and "hands" it over to them. Nothing is created; cash is merely transferred to another. Success for one is entirely dependent on another losing.