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HalMorrisRules
03-31-2009, 10:24 AM
Before people start playing the "The Reds should pick him up" game, please look at his stats last year, his spring training stats this year and the fact that he is nearly 40 and would be terrible defensively. Think about why would the Tigers release him when they owe him that much money if he was any good? Yes, I know the argument will be, "He is a right handed batter and in this small park he could go crazy." I would refer you to Andruw Jones.

Tigers Release Sheffield (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2009/news/story?id=4029706&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines)

Royals Fan
03-31-2009, 10:53 AM
I think Shef would be good fit right now with the Tigers on the line for his 2009 salary. He is the best option out there with a proven track record of hitting. Just my opinion.

mroby85
03-31-2009, 11:06 AM
I think Sheffield is washed up, but I still think we would have just as good of a chance with him winning out there as we do with what we have right now.

HalMorrisRules
03-31-2009, 11:17 AM
Sheffiled hits the Road (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/sheffield-hits-the-road/)

Fangraphs doesn't see much of a market for Gary, especially when his personality is taken into account.

schmidty622
03-31-2009, 11:19 AM
Sheff > Gomes/Nix

PedroBourbon
03-31-2009, 11:52 AM
Shef would want too much money in the twilight of his career. He can also be somewhat disruptive in the club house from what I've read in his past. I say stay away.

Root Down
03-31-2009, 12:01 PM
I wouldn't think he would leave the American league if he keeps playing.

HalMorrisRules
03-31-2009, 12:03 PM
Shef would want too much money in the twilight of his career. He can also be somewhat disruptive in the club house from what I've read in his past. I say stay away.

Any team picking him up would only have to pay him the league minimum, the Tigers would pay the remainder.

redsfandan
03-31-2009, 01:01 PM
Just say no. PLEASE say no. Sheff WAS a helluva hitter and I think he has a spot in the HOF someday but who knows if he has anything left in the tank and more importantly where would he play? Do you want to sit Dickerson or Bruce for him? I don't. Think the Reds would sit WillyT and move Dickerson to center to open a spot for Sheff? Doubt it. Who knows what he can do now but his defense stinks, his offense is a big question mark, and I don't think he'd be happy on the bench. He's just not a fit.

Ghosts of 1990
03-31-2009, 01:11 PM
No worries to those that don't want the guy. We arent going to sign him. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees not sniff him though. But the Reds? Not a chance. Not a chance.

redsfandan
03-31-2009, 06:25 PM
Since he would cost any team less than half a million I don't think those three teams have any advantage at least financially. I would be surprised to see the yankees interested since they have too many players for the outfield/dh anyway. Philly seems to be interested but that doesn't make much sense either since Ibanez is in left and Stairs is their 4th outfielder and all three of them stink defensively.

I saw this and thought it summed things up pretty well for Sheff:

After all, this is a market where Jim Edmonds, Frank Thomas, and Ray Durham can't find a job, and all three were more productive and less annoying than Sheffield last year. Upon being released, Sheffield claimed "this isn't it" for him, but he's not in a position to make that call. This very well could be it for Sheffield - he's now joining a glut of Hall Of Famers looking for work and finding slim pickings.

HalMorrisRules
03-31-2009, 10:22 PM
To add upon what Redsfan said about the Phillies being interested, Olney mentioned that they have shown some interest after Geoff Jenkins had been let go. That might be old news but I hadnt heard it at all. I doubt he would want a bench role but he would be the left handed bat off of the bench the Reds need.

RedLakerFan24
03-31-2009, 10:28 PM
I Would like to pick him up, he could still hit 20 HR in GABP, he would be our Fourth Hitter which is better than phillips

Shawn_RedsFan
03-31-2009, 10:38 PM
I Would like to pick him up, he could still hit 20 HR in GABP, he would be our Fourth Hitter which is better than phillips


is this an early april fools joke?? :confused::confused:

mroby85
03-31-2009, 10:43 PM
I Would like to pick him up, he could still hit 20 HR in GABP, he would be our Fourth Hitter which is better than phillips

I think what he means, is it moves Phillips back to the #2 hole, which makes him a better hitter, and them overall as an offense, which I agree with to some extent. I just don't know if Sheff has much left in the tank. It would probably be a right handed version of the late years of Junior.

Shawn_RedsFan
03-31-2009, 10:46 PM
i agree with phillips being better in the 2 hole but i do not want nothing to do with sheff

JBChance
03-31-2009, 11:20 PM
To add upon what Redsfan said about the Phillies being interested, Olney mentioned that they have shown some interest after Geoff Jenkins had been let go. That might be old news but I hadnt heard it at all. I doubt he would want a bench role but he would be the left handed bat off of the bench the Reds need.

I don't think Jenkins is a fit, but they may look. He's definitely on the decline - lots of K's as always, but his slugging was below .400 in '08 (first time in his career). Not good for what he is - a slugger.


Since he would cost any team less than half a million I don't think those three teams have any advantage at least financially. I would be surprised to see the yankees interested since they have too many players for the outfield/dh anyway. Philly seems to be interested but that doesn't make much sense either since Ibanez is in left and Stairs is their 4th outfielder and all three of them stink defensively.

I'm not sure where the Phillies are going with this, either. They just released Jenkins for Stairs. Sheffield's '08 was very similar to Geoff's, albeit a few more walks and RBI (in 125 more AB's than Jenkins). Sheffield is a DH, although he doesn't think so (from MLB.com):


"I can go out there on an everyday basis and play in the outfield," Sheffield said. "That's what I yearn for. I want to be in the outfield. At the same time, it kind of puts you in a box when you accept the DH role, because people start labeling you as that's all you can do. And that's not the case."

Color me skeptical about him in the OF. He's had a total of 18 games in the OF in the last 2 years with the Tigers. Can the Phillies be targeting him for the OF? It could only be the bench as a pinch hitter, imo. But, will Sheffield go for that?

George Foster
04-01-2009, 12:34 AM
Any team picking him up would only have to pay him the league minimum, the Tigers would pay the remainder.

Exactly...it would cost the reds 400K. He might want to play for Dusty? Worth a phone call.

Ghosts of 1990
04-01-2009, 03:37 AM
REDS ARE IN THE RUNNING TO SIGN SHEFFIELD
http://www.diamondhoggers.com/2009/04/source-reds-to-sign-sheffield-pursue.html

The Reds are going hard after Sheffield. They're looking to sign him soon and the deal should be anounced by friday afternoon when the team is ready to return from Florida. Ownership believes that having a guy needing one more home run to get to .500 will help attendance early in the season and the Reds can get a bargain for Sheff since he is just looking to get back in the league for one last tour of duty. He can play left field (and right every now and then) and spell Votto at 1st. He'll be excellent coming off the bench and should be accepting of that role. This is perfect for Cincinnati because they need an imposing figure hitting right handed. Sheffield fits that mold perfectly.

BEETTLEBUG
04-01-2009, 06:59 AM
Is this an April FOOL"S Day joke or is there really a hard Rumor? It would make since to some for him and Pedro Martinez

Donder
04-01-2009, 07:11 AM
Ownership believes that having a guy needing one more home run to get to .500 will help attendance early in the season and the Reds can get a bargain for Sheff since he is just looking to get back in the league for one last tour of duty. He can play left field (and right every now and then) and spell Votto at 1st.

.500 home runs? Half a home run is an incredible feat! Is that a more exciting way of saying a double?

I'll wait to hear from another, more reputable outlet before being to concerned about this. Especially since this was posted on 4/1.

$1 Hot Dog
04-01-2009, 11:39 AM
Sheffield and Pedro both might be washed up much like Junior was but this would not hurt them. They could give Sheffield a shot at hitting cleanup, put Phillips in the number two hole, and if that didn't work out they would have only paid Sheffield the league minimum anyways. They don't need Pedro as much but it never hurts to have too many starters because of the injuries that occur every year, and he might have at least something left in the tank, it's not like we would be asking him to be our number 1 like we probably would have a few years back.

I still don't know if this is real or not but I do know that WJ didn't deny it. He said he didn't know yet because it just happened. Normally if there is no chance of something happening GM's dismiss the rumor immediately. We'll see.

bgwilly31
04-01-2009, 12:03 PM
shef is a VIRUS.

Carolina Red
04-01-2009, 12:15 PM
The only way I'd want him is if MLB legalizes steroids and he gets back on the juice.

$1 Hot Dog
04-01-2009, 11:42 PM
Baker confirmed that the Reds are interested in Sheffield. Here is the article.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090401&content_id=4105880&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Slyder
04-02-2009, 12:12 AM
I'd be intrigued enough to at least kick the wheels, bring him in and let him workout. His range maybe gone defensively but if he's motivated with the "insult" of being released could very easily help a very very very weak and anemic middle of the order.

Depending on base salary Id be all over Pedro as a middle guy/spot starter (sort of a Norm Charlton role) his stuff isnt what it use to be but he still knows how to pitch and could be worth his weight in gold with helping Volquez and Cueto.

Ghosts of 1990
04-02-2009, 12:30 AM
Baker confirmed that the Reds are interested in Sheffield. Here is the article.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090401&content_id=4105880&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

My source is good

Red in Atl
04-02-2009, 12:35 AM
Hmmm...Sheffield and Pedro or Nix and Massett. I mean really. How could this hurt...

Ghosts of 1990
04-02-2009, 12:41 AM
Hmmm...Sheffield and Pedro or Nix and Massett. I mean really. How could this hurt...

+1

Gunner44
04-02-2009, 02:03 AM
just saw on sports center that sheff is suppose to talk to the reds tomorrow, or later today. However you want to look at it. I think hes got something to prove as well and is at least worth a shot at the minimum.

schmidty622
04-02-2009, 07:15 AM
I would like a Platoon of Sheff/Dickerson better than one of Gomes/Dickerson.

The change of leagues combined with the lower quality SP that Sheff would see and the effect that GABP would have on him could make this a pretty alright move.

xavr1
04-02-2009, 08:05 AM
We are talking about the league minimum. Worth a shot. That said, I wonder how a 40 year old OF with a famous pedigree will mix with this year's scrappy clubhouse.

schmidty622
04-02-2009, 08:09 AM
We are talking about the league minimum. Worth a shot. That said, I wonder how a 40 year old OF with a famous pedigree will mix with this year's scrappy clubhouse.

I really don't know if that will be a concern because the team has had all spring to to build that attitude. The leaders of the team are pretty well established and I'm sure Sheff will see and feel that coming in.

I think someone made a good point in pointing out that the Rays had Cliff Floyd last year. I think Sheff could be our Cliff Floyd, only with hopefully more pop.

BLEEDS
04-02-2009, 08:25 AM
If there's even a 10% chance that he reverts to the form of 2 years ago, I can't think of one single reason he's not worth league minimum.

If you would have told me at the end of 2008 that we could replace Keppinger with Sheffield, I'd have jumped for joy.

If we can give Jacque Jones and Darryle Ward a shot - Certainly we can give Sheffield a shot.

We need Some sort of HOPE for a RH bopper, and this might just be it.
If he's hitting .275 and OPS-ing anywhere near .800+ in June, we might actually be able to make some noise.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
04-02-2009, 08:44 AM
From the ORG (LoganBuck):


I smell smoke, too much stuff whirling around.

Lets take a look at what we know.
1. The Reds seemingly have a surplus of "quality" 4th and 5th starters. Before you snicker, realize that most teams, don't.
2. The Reds have become very challenged at scoring runs late in spring training. Bunt and steal bases all you want, someone still has to hit the ball.
3. The Reds have two blackholes, SS and LF, and aside from the first two weeks of spring training, when the majority of quality players were in the WBC, those positions have not hit. Sure you hope Dickerson can do it, but do you know he can?
4. They have to get someone in to protect Votto and Bruce, Phillips is not that guy.
5. Alex Gonzalez
6. Walt is going to have to put his stamp on this team. Suddenly his name is showing up around every possible LF and SS on the market. I believe that Walt has sent out his minions.

Something is going to happen. Size, Scale, and Cost is the question.

""""

I would be as giddy as a schoolgirl if we got a RH Power Bat to hit 4th and a QUALITY young SS who can field AND hit, even if it means giving up one of our current SP - anyone smell the "Sell High on Homer" stink?!?!
And then if we somehow got Pedro Martinez to be another #5 starter/reliever - we can hope for a 2005 reunion tour and try to catch lightning in a bottle...

And, if a motivated Sheffield really turns the corner and plays 125 games, and CD proves to be the real deal - there's also the scenario where we push WT to the bench and bat Dickerson leadoff!!
I can dream can't I? :pray:


PEACE

-BLEEDS

tommycash
04-02-2009, 09:12 AM
If we signed Sheff, I think it would be a no-lose situation. I see three things that could happen. 1. We sign him to the minimum and he does and in turn the team does well. 2. We sign him to the minimum and he does terrible. We cut him, and all we are out is the minimum. 3. He does well, and we don't. We then get to trade him at or before the deadline, and anything in return would be a good investment for the Reds.

Root Down
04-02-2009, 10:20 AM
If we signed Sheff, I think it would be a no-lose situation. I see three things that could happen. 1. We sign him to the minimum and he does and in turn the team does well. 2. We sign him to the minimum and he does terrible. We cut him, and all we are out is the minimum. 3. He does well, and we don't. We then get to trade him at or before the deadline, and anything in return would be a good investment for the Reds.

Hopefully we still need him at the deadline, but the rest I agree with. If we can get him on the cheap this is a no lose situation. If his bat is still there, we could really use it and this acquisition could help out.

I'm a little unsure of his abilities at the plate, hopefully it was just the injury holding him back which still wouldn't explain the weak ST. However, I will hold off judging him on his ST performance as with the rest of the Reds staff.

redsfandan
04-02-2009, 10:39 AM
I'd be intrigued enough to at least kick the wheels, bring him in and let him workout. ...
It's one thing to work him out. I just remain skeptical of how he could help us.

"We are going to talk," Reds GM Walt Jocketty confirmed. "Dusty talked with him [on Tuesday] night. The two have a history. We have to wait for him to clear waivers [Thursday], but we'll talk after that. We have interest because he is a legitimate big bat to add to our lineup."
2003 Braves .604
2004 Yankees .534
2005 Yankees .512
2006 Yankees .450
2007 Tigers .462
2008 Tigers .400

That's his slg% for the last 6 years. Notice that, except for a small improvement in 2007, it's been on a steady downward trend with a slg% under .500 each of the last 3 years. From '94 to '05 he had only one season with a slg% under .500.

His OBP was above .400 every season from '95 to '03. This is his OBP from '03 to '08:
2003 Braves .419
2004 Yankees .393
2005 Yankees .379
2006 Yankees .355
2007 Tigers .378
2008 Tigers .326
Notice a pattern?

We need Some sort of HOPE for a RH bopper, and this might just be it.
If he's hitting .275 and OPS-ing anywhere near .800+ in June, we might actually be able to make some noise.

I would be as giddy as a schoolgirl if we got a RH Power Bat to hit 4th ...
Chone has a line of .242/.341/.415 projected for Sheff. He's just not a "legitimate big bat" or a "Power Bat" anymore.

Add in his defensive inabilities and questionable clubhouse presence...

He can play left field (and right every now and then) and spell Votto at 1st...
Yep he can do that. But he's played all of 27 games in the field (1st, LF, RF) in the last 3 seasons. I wonder why.

... He'll be excellent coming off the bench and should be accepting of that role.

"I can go out there on an everyday basis and play in the outfield," Sheffield said. "That's what I yearn for. I want to be in the outfield. At the same time, it kind of puts you in a box when you accept the DH role, because people start labeling you as that's all you can do. And that's not the case."
He's been a starter his entire career. Do you really think he'd be happy as a
bench/part-time player?

...And, if a motivated Sheffield really turns the corner and plays 125 games, and CD proves to be the real deal - there's also the scenario where we push WT to the bench and bat Dickerson leadoff!!
I can dream can't I? :pray:

Yep you sure can.

Fact #1) Detoit released the 40 year old Sheffield (and possible future HOFer) a week before the season starts even though they'll have to eat $14 million to say good bye.
Fact #2) His offensive skills are declining.
Fact #3) His defensive skills are below average.
Fact #4) He's had a hard time staying healthy lately.
Fact #5) His reputation as a team player isn't that good and he's always been controversial.
Fact #6) Sheffield was named in the Mitchell Report as one of the players who had obtained and used steroids

I can understand wanting to "kick the wheels" on a player but I really don't see the appeal with Sheffield.

schmidty622
04-02-2009, 11:48 AM
Starting to sound like he wont sign anyway.

berryluther
04-02-2009, 11:56 AM
Failing to sign a rh power bat and count on someone like Gomes is why this team is destined to fail. You can not trot a bunch of youngsters out there and expect to catch lightning in a barrel. It happens every ten or fifteen years and dont count on it this year or the next. In all likelyhood Votto and Bruce wont see the playoffs until we deal them away in 5 years.

Look what Texas did they gave Andruw Jones sparfe change and he hit .300 this spring. Another blunder by Bob (Win now while I act like I spend money but dont" Castellini.

We have a very good pitching staff, but none of them will win 10 games without any offense behind them.

Eric_the_Red
04-02-2009, 12:52 PM
In all likelyhood Votto and Bruce wont see the playoffs until we deal them away in 5 years.

I'll take that bet.


We have a very good pitching staff, but none of them will win 10 games without any offense behind them.

That one too.

Pony Boy
04-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Marty is asking Dusty about Sheff right now. Reading between the lines it sounds like we have offered him a spot. Also reading between the lines it sounds like we are only offering a platoon with Dickerson in LF. Dusty says that he talked to Sheff this morning and that there are 4-5 other teams also talking to him.

Red in Atl
04-02-2009, 01:13 PM
I'll say it again,

Sheffield and Pedro or Nix and Massett...how could it really hurt?

Sheff playing for Dusty and to end his career on a high note? Seems like he's cocky enough to pull it off, and if it doesn't work, so what its only 400K. And Nix is still in the minors.

Pedro's presence in the BP with the kids everyday would be invaluable. And he could be like the Pre-Closer. Imagine him coming in in the 6th or 7th to slam the door with Rhodes, Burton, Stormy and Coco still waiting to shut things down completely.

mroby85
04-02-2009, 02:31 PM
Starting to sound like he wont sign anyway.

Why do you say that? :confused:

Captain Hook
04-02-2009, 02:57 PM
It wouldn't hurt to have a guy on the team that is used to winning and carries him self that way.I don't think Shef is terribly outgoing from what I know of him.Money will no longer be a problem for him so I think he could fit in well with there being no chemistry issues.

Root Down
04-02-2009, 03:37 PM
Starting to sound like he wont sign anyway.

There was a segment on baseball tonight just a minute ago saying the Reds are front runners on Sheffield.

Eric_the_Red
04-02-2009, 04:19 PM
There was a segment on baseball tonight just a minute ago saying the Reds are front runners on Sheffield.

I think Han said it best: "I've got a very bad feeling about this."

Root Down
04-02-2009, 04:28 PM
I think Han said it best: "I've got a very bad feeling about this."

I'm not sure what to make of it yet. If he produces.. that would be great. But I don't see that happening. In fact I made fun of my buddy (a Tigers fan) all season last season for having such a high payroll with nonproductive players such as Sheffield. If we pick him up, I will do my best to be optimistic about it but I know he's unlikely to be that all-star bat he once was.

Hey Meat
04-02-2009, 04:29 PM
Wow, I thought we just got rid of two guys who were bad in the outfield, but could swing the bat.

bounty37h
04-02-2009, 04:42 PM
Meat, you forgot to add "and old"

Shawn_RedsFan
04-02-2009, 05:51 PM
I am not a big fan of this move if we get sheff, BUT i trust walt and dusty (yes i just said i TRUST dusty) so if they think it is the right move i am with them

mroby85
04-02-2009, 05:54 PM
I like this move. It's a low risk, high reward type move, and i'm always in favor of those. What is there to lose seriously? Do you think we're that much better off with a Gomes/Dickerson platoon? I don't think so. Bring on Sheff, and hope for lightning in a bottle!

flash
04-02-2009, 06:16 PM
Last year everyone was talking about what a great juggernat offense the tigers were going to have. Sheffield was supposed to be a part of that, but he tanked just like the Tigers. The Tigers were practically given the AL Central before the season started, but they ended up finishing last even behind the Royals.

Sheffiled numbers were a big reason. 19 HR's from a power hitter EE did better than that. .226 BA. I think even Dunn did better. .326 I think was his OBP. Against left-handers he hit .239 with a OBP of .314. Those are not good numbers.

I don't think this is a good deal.

gedred69
04-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Kind of ironic posters should mention the defensive liability Sheffield would be, and Flash should compare #s with EE who blew the game defensively today! Although I tend to agree, I keep getting the feeling the pitching isn't going to be able to win games when the hitters don't deliver runs like we've seen in ST. Maybe we are expecting too much of the young guys, and maybe a guy like Sheffield could be a force offense-wise. During the game today, Walt said to Marty the scouts say he can still hit. Dunno, I'm torn. Gomes sure has fallen off.

redsfandan
04-02-2009, 06:51 PM
Failing to sign a rh power bat and count on someone like Gomes is why this team is destined to fail. You can not trot a bunch of youngsters out there and expect to catch lightning in a barrel...

Love the optimism.

It wouldn't hurt to have a guy on the team that is used to winning and carries him self that way.I don't think Shef is terribly outgoing from what I know of him.Money will no longer be a problem for him so I think he could fit in well with there being no chemistry issues.
Don't forget about the issue of playing time.

I like this move. It's a low risk, high reward type move, and i'm always in favor of those. What is there to lose seriously?...
Low risk, high reward? If you say so.

Bring on Sheff, and hope for lightning in a bottle!
Well put.

roby
04-02-2009, 11:16 PM
Last year everyone was talking about what a great juggernat offense the tigers were going to have. Sheffield was supposed to be a part of that, but he tanked just like the Tigers. The Tigers were practically given the AL Central before the season started, but they ended up finishing last even behind the Royals.

Sheffiled numbers were a big reason. 19 HR's from a power hitter EE did better than that. .226 BA. I think even Dunn did better. .326 I think was his OBP. Against left-handers he hit .239 with a OBP of .314. Those are not good numbers.

I don't think this is a good deal.

Sheffield was injured last year, and is reportedly healthy now. If that is the case, you could expect him to do a lot better than last year's numbers. They say he has not lost his bat speed.

JBChance
04-02-2009, 11:47 PM
It's one thing to work him out. I just remain skeptical of how he could help us.

2003 Braves .604
2004 Yankees .534
2005 Yankees .512
2006 Yankees .450
2007 Tigers .462
2008 Tigers .400

That's his slg% for the last 6 years. Notice that, except for a small improvement in 2007, it's been on a steady downward trend with a slg% under .500 each of the last 3 years. From '94 to '05 he had only one season with a slg% under .500.

His OBP was above .400 every season from '95 to '03. This is his OBP from '03 to '08:
2003 Braves .419
2004 Yankees .393
2005 Yankees .379
2006 Yankees .355
2007 Tigers .378
2008 Tigers .326
Notice a pattern?


Chone has a line of .242/.341/.415 projected for Sheff. He's just not a "legitimate big bat" or a "Power Bat" anymore.

Add in his defensive inabilities and questionable clubhouse presence...

Yep he can do that. But he's played all of 27 games in the field (1st, LF, RF) in the last 3 seasons. I wonder why.


He's been a starter his entire career. Do you really think he'd be happy as a
bench/part-time player?

Yep you sure can.

Fact #1) Detoit released the 40 year old Sheffield (and possible future HOFer) a week before the season starts even though they'll have to eat $14 million to say good bye.
Fact #2) His offensive skills are declining.
Fact #3) His defensive skills are below average.
Fact #4) He's had a hard time staying healthy lately.
Fact #5) His reputation as a team player isn't that good and he's always been controversial.
Fact #6) Sheffield was named in the Mitchell Report as one of the players who had obtained and used steroids

I can understand wanting to "kick the wheels" on a player but I really don't see the appeal with Sheffield.

Well put.

Sheffield will want to play everyday. He doesn't want to be a bench player. He will play '08 Griffey-ish defense.

If this was the AL and we had the DH, he might have an OK chance to make a decent difference.

But it isn't, we don't, and he won't.

tommycash
04-03-2009, 11:32 AM
I still say this is a very low risk signing, if he does come to the Reds. He would be making league minimum. That gives him very low leverage. If he becomes a cancer, cut or trade him. Do you think Jocketty would want a cancer in the clubhouse? Right now, the choice is between platooning Dickerson with Gomes, or platooning Dickerson with Sheff. Tell me, which one makes us better. Gomes comes in with baggage too. I don't see a problem with bringing in Sheff at that low a price. If he doesn't produce, then he is gone. If he becomes a clubhouse problem, I would say that he would be gone in that situation as well.

Also, I don't think you can base an opinion on the Reds' signing Sheff with how we dealt with Dunn and Griffey. Those two were making tons of money compared to the rest of the team. If we could have signed Griffey for league minimum, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Just my opinion though.

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 11:52 AM
.. Right now, the choice is between platooning Dickerson with Gomes, or platooning Dickerson with Sheff. Tell me, which one makes us better. Gomes comes in with baggage too. ...
In reference to Gomes, I have no idea what "baggage" you're talking about. All I know is that last year Gomes had a very unlucky babip. So if his babip reverts to what it was before he'll most likely have an OPS north of .900 vs lefties. I keep having the feeling people think he's nothing. But he'll match or beat what Sheff woul do in a platoon without the headache. I'll take Gomes.

Old NDN
04-03-2009, 12:21 PM
I am not a big fan of this move if we get sheff, BUT i trust walt and dusty (yes i just said i TRUST dusty) so if they think it is the right move i am with them

I agree. If they think it will help the Reds win more games then sign him. Walt and Dusty surely know a lot more about his abilities than any of us. Let's win now. I'm tired of always waiting for "the kids" to develop down the road. Too many variables.

Bumstead
04-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Looks like the Mets will sign Sheffield. For me, whew...I would rather see Jenkins or Catalanotto at this point.

Just one other comment that I can't resist: at least we now have kids that are developing! Our minor league system has improved exponentially over the last 5 years. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will a middle market basebal team.

Bum

tommycash
04-03-2009, 01:17 PM
In reference to Gomes, I have no idea what "baggage" you're talking about. All I know is that last year Gomes had a very unlucky babip. So if his babip reverts to what it was before he'll most likely have an OPS north of .900 vs lefties. I keep having the feeling people think he's nothing. But he'll match or beat what Sheff woul do in a platoon without the headache. I'll take Gomes.

The "baggage" I am talking about, refers to Gomes being an instigator in two different major league, bench clearing brawls. Look it up on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Gomes

Also, one should not forget that Gomes could be done for his career anyday, if his heart condition comes back. He had a heart attack in 2002. It was not because he was fat and lazy, as he had 8% body fat at the time, it was probably genetic. You can't ignore that.

I am not saying I don't like Gomes, his upside could be good. But to say he would beat out Sheff is a stretch. He had a bad year just like Sheff did. But what's to say there will be any headache at all with Sheff. Plus Sheff could put butts in the seats at the start of the season.

Bumstead
04-03-2009, 01:33 PM
Maybe instead of saying Gomes had an 'off-year,' we should just list the time he had a good year...I mean, anyone that thinks Gomes is going to have a .900 OPS is...I mean...maybe they should be checked out or something...a .900 OPS? So, I mean that would make him like an all-star and a silver slugger award winner or something...when did that occur? He is a bench player that should be #24 or #25 on any given team at best. The Reds should be looking for better options if you want to be honest about it and if the options come relatively cheaply. I don't have a problem if he play a game a week or something but really...what happened to Danny Dorn??? I guess we have to find a way to get Nix off the roster before we deal with Gomes though...I got it, keep Janish and Rosales and send Nix down. We have Hairston, why do we need 5 OF's anyway? I'm crazy, I know. :rolleyes:

Bum

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 01:38 PM
The "baggage" I am talking about, refers to Gomes being an instigator in two different major league, bench clearing brawls. Look it up on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Gomes.
THAT'S what you meant? Yeah I remember that and I'll take that. Personally I think this team could benefit from a player that has a little fire in him. To me that's totally different from Sheff. I don't think Gomes would have a problem being a bench player. But I DO think that Sheff would have a problem with being a bench player.


Also, one should not forget that Gomes could be done for his career anyday, if his heart condition comes back. He had a heart attack in 2002. It was not because he was fat and lazy, as he had 8% body fat at the time, it was probably genetic. You can't ignore that. .
That's been treated. So you wanna give up on a guy cuz there's a slim chance it could reoccur? Not me.

I am not saying I don't like Gomes, his upside could be good. But to say he would beat out Sheff is a stretch. He had a bad year just like Sheff did. But what's to say there will be any headache at all with Sheff. Plus Sheff could put butts in the seats at the start of the season.
Imo, in a platoon it's not a stretch to say that Gomes could match or beat a 40 year old Sheff.
But what isn't my opinion is that Sheff has always been a headcase and his skills are deteriorating. Those are facts.

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 01:49 PM
Maybe instead of saying Gomes had an 'off-year,' we should just list the time he had a good year...I mean, anyone that thinks Gomes is going to have a .900 OPS is...I mean...maybe they should be checked out or something...a .900 OPS? So, I mean that would make him like an all-star and a silver slugger award winner or something...when did that occur? He is a bench player that should be #24 or #25 on any given team at best.

... All I know is that last year Gomes had a very unlucky babip. So if his babip reverts to what it was before he'll most likely have an OPS north of .900 vs lefties...
He's only been in the league for 4 seasons and in the three seasons before last season he had a .953 OPS vs lefties. Like I said if his babip simply reverts back to career norms he can be very productive vs lefties. ;)

mroby85
04-03-2009, 02:11 PM
Sounds like Sheff is about to sign with the Mets anyway, they've offered him more playing time. Good news is he'll be at GABP monday, bad news is it won't be with the reds.

tommycash
04-03-2009, 02:17 PM
I am not saying we should give up on Gomes. He is signed to a minor league deal. He could start in AAA. Sheff could start in the majors and if he bombs, Gomes is there.

Bumstead
04-03-2009, 02:19 PM
He's only been in the league for 4 seasons and in the three seasons before last season he had a .953 OPS vs lefties. Like I said if his babip simply reverts back to career norms he can be very productive vs lefties. ;)

Dude

You know I had to look it up, well you probably didn't but now you know for future reference... ;)

Vs. lefties for Gomes is right at 100 AB's per year each of the last 4 years...2008 - .705, 2007 - .918, 2006 - 1.052, and 2005 - .888 (OPS)...So 100 AB's divided by 26 weeks is roughly 4 AB's per week. I'm OK with that, and 2005 was his 1 good year as a player. His relevance to this team is minor as Dickerson or Hairston or anyone else should put in the other 500+ AB's. Like I said, he has to be #25 on this team and we should be looking to improve that player. Your numbers are correct no matter how small a sample size it is, I just do not share your optimism for his success should he receive more than the 100 AB's vs. LHP's this season.

Thanks as I did enjoy the research. :D

Bum

Eric_the_Red
04-03-2009, 02:37 PM
I'd rather have a player that picks fights with the other team than with the front office/manager.

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 02:46 PM
Bum
I think they signed him to hit vs lefties and provide some power off the bench. That's all. He won't be an all-star obviously but noone will in that role and he can be a nice complimentary player. And I'm ok with that. Oh, and I do try to be optimistic about things. Can ya tell? :lol:.

By the way, a couple other posters had already mentioned it but I thought I'd post this anyway:

Mets Close To Signing Gary Sheffield
By Tim Dierkes [April 3 at 12:08pm CST]
12:08pm: Sherman adds that Mets GM Omar Minaya spoke to Sheffield directly recently to explain how he'd fit with the team. Meanwhile, several Phillies players have contacted Sheffield to lobby him to sign.

11:23am: According to Joel Sherman of the New York Post, the Mets are close to signing Gary Sheffield. The Mets plan to give him significant playing time. They'd only have to pay $400K and would consider Sheffield an option in both outfield corners. Sherman's source said:

"Unless something drastic happens, he is a Met. Someone would have to offer him a second year, and I just don't see that happening."

David Lennon of Newsday believes Sheffield could sign with the Mets as soon as tonight.
Time to move on.

Bumstead
04-03-2009, 02:52 PM
RedsFan

I love this time of year and I love talking about baseball, especially Reds baseball. This team has a bright future. I just hope Dusty sticks to the 'vs lefties' plan and Dickerson gets most of the time.

Have they called Geoff Jenkins yet???

Bum

ChatterRed
04-03-2009, 03:14 PM
The "baggage" I am talking about, refers to Gomes being an instigator in two different major league, bench clearing brawls. Look it up on wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonny_Gomes

Also, one should not forget that Gomes could be done for his career anyday, if his heart condition comes back. He had a heart attack in 2002. It was not because he was fat and lazy, as he had 8% body fat at the time, it was probably genetic. You can't ignore that.

I am not saying I don't like Gomes, his upside could be good. But to say he would beat out Sheff is a stretch. He had a bad year just like Sheff did. But what's to say there will be any headache at all with Sheff. Plus Sheff could put butts in the seats at the start of the season.

Gomes has been known for his charity work in the Tampa Bay area, working with the Boys and Girls Clubs and many local schools. He participated in the Tampa Bay Rays "Shop with a Jock" where children from the Boys and Girls Clubs are invited to have lunch with the players and were each treated to a $100 shopping spree, and was involved in the "Take Jonny to School" program. The student who won was 13 year old Shamika Smith, who brought him to A.J. Ferell Middle Magnet School. He has also sponsored a total of nine Little League Teams in his home town of Petaluma, California during his years in professional baseball. These teams range from tee-ball to 12 year olds. He is involved with Camp For A Cure, an annual charity baseball camp in Petaluma that has raised over $25,000 to date for cancer and Lupus research. - wikipedia

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 03:28 PM
RedsFan

I love this time of year and I love talking about baseball, especially Reds baseball. This team has a bright future. I just hope Dusty sticks to the 'vs lefties' plan and Dickerson gets most of the time.

I'm with ya on that.:thumbup:

Royals Fan
04-03-2009, 04:07 PM
latest on Shef.

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Mets and Gary Sheffield have agreed to a deal.

Marlon Anderson apparently will be released after all. Sheffield figures to be used in right field against left-handers, with Fernando Tatis starting in left field against some lefties. Apr. 3 - 3:26 pm et