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View Full Version : Where's all the runs?



Nasty_Boy
03-31-2009, 11:42 PM
The Reds have been absolutely terrible at the plate this spring. Ranking last among NL clubs in OBP and in the bottom 3-5 in Runs, AVG, SLG, RBI, and Walks while ranking 2nd in K's. This team hasn't hit and the "speed" factor hasn't resulted in runs crossing the plate. The outfield defense has improved, while the INF is still a question mark as long as Gonzo is hurt and EE is at 3rd. If the young arms fail to have big years to go along with a bounce back from Harang, this team is in jeopardy of being at the bottom of the NL.

Forgive me for not being real excited about this lineup. I know spring stats don't always mean anything, but the teams expected to be good have hit this spring. I don't think that its a coincidence.

Captain Hook
04-01-2009, 12:43 AM
I think that this season is a lot like some of the loosing years we have had in the past.The one difference is that our only hope this year is that our pitching is so good that we still win despite our offense while in other years it was the other way around.

The one good thing that I can say about that is that if we can hang around close until the trade deadline something can be done.IMO it is much easier to improve a teams offense with a quick fix then it is to improve bad pitching.

JBChance
04-01-2009, 01:16 AM
The Reds have been absolutely terrible at the plate this spring. Ranking last among NL clubs in OBP and in the bottom 3-5 in Runs, AVG, SLG, RBI, and Walks while ranking 2nd in K's. This team hasn't hit and the "speed" factor hasn't resulted in runs crossing the plate. The outfield defense has improved, while the INF is still a question mark as long as Gonzo is hurt and EE is at 3rd. If the young arms fail to have big years to go along with a bounce back from Harang, this team is in jeopardy of being at the bottom of the NL.

Forgive me for not being real excited about this lineup. I know spring stats don't always mean anything, but the teams expected to be good have hit this spring. I don't think that its a coincidence.

The writing was and is on the wall for our lineup. Unless an OPS reversal of fortune for many players happens and the younger players really step up, we will not score enough to win more than 75 games. Could even be worse, if the wheels come off.

BTW, will someone tell our "D" that its much improved? We are in the bottom 10 for MLB in errors and fielding % for ST. Now, a lot of that is Hairston and Kepp (gone now) at SS (please heal AGon!), but Dickerson is struggling a little, too. Today, in the loss to the Evil Empire, we handed out 4 runs on 4 errors in a 6 - 3 loss. This new defense is supposed to give our pitching increased support. Without it, we're up a creek.

gedred69
04-02-2009, 06:53 PM
Yep. Where are the runs? Who's gonna' deliver in the clutch? Young guys are expected to step up, but are they ready?

Ghosts of 1990
04-02-2009, 07:45 PM
For the asking price Dunn should have been brought back 10 times over

BLEEDS
04-02-2009, 09:26 PM
For the asking price Dunn should have been brought back 10 times over

BLASPHEMER!!!!

Geez, don't you know Willy Tavares is going to steal 100 bases!!
(actually, I'm beginning to wonder if he'll get 100 hits!)

This FO has no freakin' clue - for like, EVER, we were pitching starved, so when we Finally get some pitching, we ship out all of our offense in the name of "Speed and Defense", like 1980's small ball is back in affect... not to mention the HUGE hole we have at SS.

I seriously can't believe our Plan B at SS if Agon wasn't going to be trotted out there was Jerry F. Hairston coming off a career (1/2) year... and Keppinger. RE-DIC-ULOUS!!

From the looks of it, our Defense is NO better and our offense is even worse than last year - which was already like 27th out of 32 teams in just about every offensive category - after shipping out the only legit .900 OPS bat on our team.

Where did we upgrade again? I say at Catcher, and that's it.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Eric_the_Red
04-03-2009, 12:18 AM
I say the team upgraded at SP just with the added experience for Volquez, Cueto and a healthy Owings/refocused Bailey.

Nasty_Boy
04-03-2009, 07:48 AM
You don't upgrade with guys that were already here and in the rotation. Owings is an upgrade at the 5th starter spot, but at what cost? Could they have gotten similar production from Homer? Is Owings in the 5 spot more important than having a Dunn like bat in the 5 spot?

Eric_the_Red
04-03-2009, 08:54 AM
You don't upgrade with guys that were already here and in the rotation. Owings is an upgrade at the 5th starter spot, but at what cost? Could they have gotten similar production from Homer? Is Owings in the 5 spot more important than having a Dunn like bat in the 5 spot?


Sure you do. As players progress and improve, the team receives an upgrade over the previous year at that position. If the 1-5 starting slots in the rotation wins more games and give up fewer runs than last year, how is that not an upgrade?

BLEEDS
04-03-2009, 09:17 AM
You don't upgrade with guys that were already here and in the rotation. Owings is an upgrade at the 5th starter spot, but at what cost? Could they have gotten similar production from Homer? Is Owings in the 5 spot more important than having a Dunn like bat in the 5 spot?

Exactly.


Sure you do. As players progress and improve, the team receives an upgrade over the previous year at that position. If the 1-5 starting slots in the rotation wins more games and give up fewer runs than last year, how is that not an upgrade?

You don't grade a pitcher by his wins.
ERA and "wins" definitely have a pitching-independent variable - namely offense and defense.

Also, it's foolish to assume everybody gets better every year and Nobody regresses - look at Harang last year. There's too much variance to "upgrade" with the same talent.

Volquez is unlikely to get better than last year when he took a HUGE step forward; a small step back is more likely.
Cueto should improve a bit, but he may not take a HUGE step for a year or two, or three...
I would say the 5 spot is improved, but we've been saying that for 2-3 years now. And, as Nasty Boy says, at what cost? Dunn and his guaranteed .900 OPS in LF? IFF we had Upgraded anywhere else in the OF then yeah, but we all know that story.

Other than SP, the only guys you can hope to improve upon last year are Bruce, only because he's so young and has obvious talent and potential. EE and BP have as much chance to continue their regress as opposed to improve. Votto is a wildcard, he may be at or near his ceiling now, you have to hope he doesn't regress. Catcher I feel is an upgrade. SS has the potential to be worse, and looking more and more like we'll need a miracle to improve it with AGON's recovery taking a step back.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Eric_the_Red
04-03-2009, 10:09 AM
Well, I think Harang, Volquez and Cueto will all improve on last year, and I also believe the #5 spot will be better than last season. That is an upgrade. JMHO

BigJohn
04-03-2009, 12:02 PM
OK, I pulled the pic. I don't want to hear Dunn's name again!

Eric_the_Red
04-03-2009, 12:50 PM
And this thread gets locked in 3....2.....

Red in Chicago
04-03-2009, 01:26 PM
And this thread gets locked in 3....2.....

John removed his pic (thank you) so the thread can stay open. Everyone just remain respectful of others and you'll be fine.

DTCromer
04-09-2009, 08:25 AM
Well, I think most of RedsZone is a bit disappointed today since they can't blame the loss on hitting.

bounty37h
04-09-2009, 10:15 AM
BLASPHEMER!!!!

Geez, don't you know Willy Tavares is going to steal 100 bases!!
(actually, I'm beginning to wonder if he'll get 100 hits!)

This FO has no freakin' clue - for like, EVER, we were pitching starved, so when we Finally get some pitching, we ship out all of our offense in the name of "Speed and Defense", like 1980's small ball is back in affect... not to mention the HUGE hole we have at SS.

I seriously can't believe our Plan B at SS if Agon wasn't going to be trotted out there was Jerry F. Hairston coming off a career (1/2) year... and Keppinger. RE-DIC-ULOUS!!

From the looks of it, our Defense is NO better and our offense is even worse than last year - which was already like 27th out of 32 teams in just about every offensive category - after shipping out the only legit .900 OPS bat on our team.

Where did we upgrade again? I say at Catcher, and that's it.

PEACE

-BLEEDS


I agree, and think this is a long going frustration for Reds fans, only the names and positions change around, but same story overall. And to make it worse, I dont think we upgraded at all with catcher-better bat, but worse glove/calling/fundamentals IMO.

Root Down
04-09-2009, 10:32 AM
Well, I think most of RedsZone is a bit disappointed today since they can't blame the loss on hitting.

No doubt, looks to me like this team will be able to produce.

Eric_the_Red
04-09-2009, 10:34 AM
And I'm waiting for the posts to send Bruce down like McDonald after he butchered that play in right last night.

schmidty622
04-09-2009, 12:07 PM
And I'm waiting for the posts to send Bruce down like McDonald after he butchered that play in right last night.

You have to be near something to butcher it. He just fell down.

DTCromer
04-09-2009, 02:33 PM
You have to be near something to butcher it. He just fell down.


Really? It felt like he tore a page out of Adam Dunn's fielding repetoire.

Eric_the_Red
04-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Yeah, if it was McDonald people would be calling for his head. Or Taveras. But since it was Bruce it is being treated as if it were no big deal.

PhillipsHead
04-09-2009, 06:12 PM
Yeah, if it was McDonald people would be calling for his head. Or Taveras. But since it was Bruce it is being treated as if it were no big deal.

Nailed it ... why is everyone giving Bruce the benefit of the doubt? It's also time for him to start swingin it two. Votto can't drive in everything...