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View Full Version : I think it is time to cut our losses with EE



BigJohn
04-03-2009, 12:38 PM
-Edwin Encarnacion has struggled. Seven errors, .209 average with two hits Thursday.

This spring according to John Fay

DaytonFlyer
04-03-2009, 12:50 PM
I do think this is his make or break year, but I can't see the Reds ditching him quite yet. In other words, it's not time to cut our losses, but the time could be looming.

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Spring stats can be overblown. If those are his stats after April then yeah maybe. I doubt that will happen though. But if his offense and/or defense don't improve this year then 3rd may belong to Todd Frazier in 2010.

BigJohn
04-03-2009, 01:04 PM
He has averaged an error every 6th game in his career!

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 01:10 PM
1) He's actually cut down on errors his last two years compared to his first two years.
2) Errors aren't the best gauge of someones defense anyway.
3) Who do you suggest we put at 3rd instead?

Moosie52
04-03-2009, 01:12 PM
Be glad we're not still clinging to Kearns and Lopez.

BigJohn
04-03-2009, 01:21 PM
Maybe we should dump one of those catchers and find a 3rd baseman that can hit!

nemesis
04-03-2009, 01:35 PM
I know its probaly to late to do it but alot could have been solved if they had made the shift of EE to LF or 1B and moved Votto to LF. Rosales could have played 3rd or signed Wiggington over Tavares. The team would have a completely different - "better" - offensive make up and probaly a little more solid defensivly.

ChatterRed
04-03-2009, 01:39 PM
I think if he is struggling come All-Star break time, a change might be made. We have guys available and in the wings that are on the verge of taking over third base. EE needs a good season to keep his job.

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 01:53 PM
Maybe we should dump one of those catchers and find a 3rd baseman that can hit!
You've lost me big guy. The only catchers we have we need. I can't think of any 3rd basemen that are available and that would be an improvement. And EE actually is a decent hitter now with a career OPS of .801 after four seasons plus he only turned 26 a couple months ago.

I'm just one of those that thinks he can be better. Hopefully he will be this year. But he won't be going anywhere for awhile. You can hope that he struggles more and Frazier replaces him mid-season if you want. I'd rather hope EE can realize his potential and forces us to keep him around.

Fwiw, I don't think Rosales or Wiggington would have been an improvement at 3rd. An improvement over WillyT? Sure but we've been over that. What's done is done.

BigJohn
04-03-2009, 01:55 PM
We need 3 catchers? Let's make Micah Owings a 3rd baseman, He can hit and I bet he can throw to first!

redsfandan
04-03-2009, 02:04 PM
We have Hernandez and we have Hanigan. And that's it. If you meant Castillo as a 3rd catcher he's really more of a utility player. Can we try Owings in the rotation 1st?

davereds24
04-03-2009, 05:10 PM
doesn't he always start the year slow? he will be fine, there are many other things to worry about on this team before EE.

TC81190
04-03-2009, 05:11 PM
We really should have signed Wigginton. It would've pushed Edwin to succeed, and if he didn't, we would've had an equally as good hitter and a better defender at 3B, that could've created an amazing bench if you sit either of them.

Why Taveras? Why?

Kingspoint
04-03-2009, 06:55 PM
As bad a Spring as it's been, he's still the teams' best chance at leading all Right-handers on the REDS in both homeruns and OPS. I'll be schocked if he doesn't do both.

Jack Burton
04-03-2009, 09:06 PM
I know its probaly to late to do it but alot could have been solved if they had made the shift of EE to LF or 1B and moved Votto to LF. Rosales could have played 3rd or signed Wiggington over Tavares. The team would have a completely different - "better" - offensive make up and probaly a little more solid defensivly.

I agree with the EE to LF move, it worked out for the Brewers.

berryluther
04-03-2009, 09:20 PM
Lets see where they have Fraizer playing at in Carolina and see what direction they might be going.

nemesis
04-04-2009, 02:49 AM
I not sure why everyone thinks Frazier will be the one to replace EE at 3rd. Terry Reynolds himself made a comment to suggest he'd end up at 2nd eventually. I think with the great play that Francisco has shown and his Plus Plus arm and his Plus Plus power he'd be the one to replace EE at third next year. If EE has a standard EE season.

GIDP
04-04-2009, 03:12 AM
Edwin is younger than Votto. I guess we should have cut out loses with Votto when he was a 24 year old in AAA also.

Captain Hook
04-04-2009, 03:56 AM
You don't get rid of a guy that your counting on to be one of top 3 or 4 hitters on the team just because he has a bad spring.SS,LF ans CF are much bigger concerns imo.

redsfandan
04-04-2009, 03:58 AM
I not sure why everyone thinks Frazier will be the one to replace EE at 3rd. Terry Reynolds himself made a comment to suggest he'd end up at 2nd eventually. ...
Can you post the comment that Reynolds made? I've always had the impression that Frazier would probably end up at 3rd or in leftfield so 2nd would be a surprise to me.

fitz1
04-04-2009, 01:08 PM
I was hoping the EE had worked out all winter on his footwork, fielding and throwing and had come to spring with as greatly improved fielder. If I were GM I would look at trading him now and bring up Valaika, Fransico, Hairston, or Rosales. EE has some trade value but Jockety has emphasized fielding all winter and EE still is a liability. I realize EE is 26 and by this time if he was going to improve defensively, I think he would have. I'm ready to move on and give one of the other guys a chance.

gedred69
04-04-2009, 02:19 PM
This is definitely the make year for EE. I'm not convinced last year shouldn't have been. I've posted it here before, for those who saw Danny Driessen play in the BRM days, Loads of talent, but a real muttonhead, (No concentration). I am thinking DD=EE. I hope to be wrong.......

nemesis
04-04-2009, 04:44 PM
Can you post the comment that Reynolds made? I've always had the impression that Frazier would probably end up at 3rd or in leftfield so 2nd would be a surprise to me.

It was in a post that was in here sometime last year in some interview where he said he invisioned both Valakia and Frazier would eventually end up on the right side of the infield. Mute point now he's a LF. Kinda odd since Votto is more than likely destined to end up there.

Ghosts of 1990
04-05-2009, 03:17 AM
-Edwin Encarnacion has struggled. Seven errors, .209 average with two hits Thursday.

This spring according to John Fay

He's going to get off to a hot start like he has in the past and carry this team early while the young bats struggle and you're going to hate you started this thread.

brachial pleXUs
04-05-2009, 05:12 AM
We need 3 catchers? Let's make Micah Owings a 3rd baseman, He can hit and I bet he can throw to first!

If Castillo makes the team and actually plays any at catcher, I'll eat my hat! (Unlike Pedro Borbon, however, I would make sure that my hat was made of an edible material. Like bacon.)

RED VAN HOT
04-05-2009, 10:49 AM
-Edwin Encarnacion has struggled. Seven errors, .209 average with two hits Thursday.

This spring according to John Fay

Maybe he was using spring training to experiment with new ways to throw.

Ghosts of 1990
04-05-2009, 04:11 PM
I'm telling you.... watch the hot start by Edwin at the plate.

JBChance
04-06-2009, 12:59 AM
I'm telling you.... watch the hot start by Edwin at the plate.

Dude, I hope you're right. We'll need it :beerme:

BLEEDS
04-06-2009, 09:34 AM
I'm telling you.... watch the hot start by Edwin at the plate.

I agree.

The best case scenario would be that he has a hot season, like .900+, and continues to hack it up at 3B.

Next year, we move him to LF, Dickerson to CF, and somebody else plays 3B - one of the AAA guys or maybe even Alonso. And Willy Tavares retires.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BigJohn
04-06-2009, 10:00 AM
I think I would make Edwin a 1st Baseman and look at Votto in LF.

Eric_the_Red
04-06-2009, 10:11 AM
I think I would make Edwin a 1st Baseman and look at Votto in LF.

I'm curious as to your line of thinking with that move. IMO, Votto has showed that he can be a good defender at 1B. Not sure why you would want to mess with that.

BigJohn
04-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Because EE can't play 3rd! If he hits, he needs a position. If Votto can throw let him play lf or 3rd.

My point is EE has a terrible arm for an IF but a decent glove. He could play first and Votto looks like a better possibility in OF or even third.

bounty37h
04-06-2009, 11:19 AM
He's going to get off to a hot start like he has in the past and carry this team early while the young bats struggle and you're going to hate you started this thread.

Didnt he get sent down early last year cause he did'tt even get off to a room temp start, let alone hot? Or was that the season before?

Chris Sabowned
04-06-2009, 11:43 AM
Didnt he get sent down early last year cause he did'tt even get off to a room temp start, let alone hot? Or was that the season before?


That was two years ago, and he ended up hitting in the high .280's. Even last year he had an OPS over .800. Sure his defense may not be great, but he's one of our best hitters. Why people want to get rid of him is beyond me.

BigJohn
04-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Well he can't play third!!!!

If we can't get him in the OF or to 1st he has to go!

BLEEDS
04-06-2009, 12:24 PM
EE should be on this team as long as he continues to rake.

Votto, EE, and Alonso are all corner IF/OF guys that could potentially be swapped around until they found the right combination.

The only potential variable in there is all the other corner IF/OF guys we have in the minors who could be ready in 1-3 years (Valaika, Frazier, et al) who may give us the ability to trade one of these guys before they all get too expensive...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Hondo
04-08-2009, 02:58 PM
Dude, Edwin might hit 30 HR this year... If he does that... Leave him at 3rd until Frazier can come play... OR move him to Left... Don't Jack with Votto... Thats moving 2 players when you could just move EE to LF...

REDblooded
04-08-2009, 03:08 PM
and just when you sour on EE, he makes a ridiculous play like yesterday....

Eric_the_Red
04-08-2009, 03:51 PM
and just when you sour on EE, he makes a ridiculous play like yesterday....

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/Al-Pacino-aaa.jpg
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

Kingspoint
04-08-2009, 04:23 PM
No judgement calls by me on EE until after the All-Star break.

Fon Duc Tow
04-08-2009, 04:38 PM
EE will really make you flip flop as a fan.

One day he looks like garbage, the next day he fields like Ozzie Smith with the game winning HR.

I agree, I'd give him until the all-star break.

Jerome
04-08-2009, 04:55 PM
EE will really make you flip flop as a fan.

One day he looks like garbage, the next day he fields like Ozzie Smith with the game winning HR.

I agree, I'd give him until the all-star break.

I'd give him all year, and the next, and probably the next. EE is not the problem.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

Red in Atl
04-08-2009, 06:20 PM
So we keep up this charade with EE, when we could have traded him for something decent, and kept Cantu. Instead, we throw away Cantu for nothing. I will never understand that move...

nemesis
04-08-2009, 06:24 PM
I wouldnt get rid of EE. THe offense is already weak enough with out losing our best RH bat. If Votto is going to end up in LF anyways... Hello Yonder... Why not make the move now and Move EE to first? He can pick it up quickly be my guess. His bat will carry at the postion and increase his trade value if were out of it at the deadline. Its never going to happen mind you, but it makes for good discussion.

Redlegs
04-08-2009, 07:11 PM
I used to think the same thing, however, he's young. Unless you could upgrade in a major way, leave him at 3rd for now.

xavr1
04-08-2009, 07:15 PM
EE is what he is. A .250 hitter with 25-30 HR potential and a boatload of errors (with some great plays thrown in). I am tired of expecting him to finally "play to his potential." I think the reality is: he already has!

If this is what we want out of a 3B, then fine. But moving him to 1B is nonsensical considering Votto and Yonder.

Eric_the_Red
04-08-2009, 08:14 PM
And how about we let Yonder get a few dozen at bats in the minors this year before we go anointing him the future 1B. Plenty of "can't miss" prospects have missed in the past.

ChatterRed
04-08-2009, 11:53 PM
Make a trade with Seattle for Beltre. I'm ready.

GIDP
04-09-2009, 01:11 AM
There is no reason why Edwin shouldnt be batting higher in the order than 6th.

Id rather have a guy like Dickerson 6th with Edwin 4th and Phillips 2nd or 1st.

Dickerson has speed to burn so he can get around for the lower half of the order, Edwin is going to get on base more than Phillips for Bruce and Dickerson, and Phillips is going to see more fastballs and have less pressure to be a power threat higher in the order.

Ghosts of 1990
04-09-2009, 02:16 AM
There is no reason why Edwin shouldnt be batting higher in the order than 6th.

Id rather have a guy like Dickerson 6th with Edwin 4th and Phillips 2nd or 1st.

Dickerson has speed to burn so he can get around for the lower half of the order, Edwin is going to get on base more than Phillips for Bruce and Dickerson, and Phillips is going to see more fastballs and have less pressure to be a power threat higher in the order.

There is actually a reason. If you want to know that reason it is because Dickerson is a lefty, and Bruce (who will hit 5th on most nights with this current order) is also a lefty. Putting dickerson 6th as a lefty doesn't allow you to flip flop RH, LH, RH, LH, RH like so many managers like to do nowadays; making no bullpen move an easy call for the opposition.

Edwin is fine where he is at right now; he just needs to come through in situations like runner on 3rd and less than 2 out. We're really depending on him this year. He's a veteran compared to many of these guys and our 2nd biggest RH bat (where we are thin). It's not a matter of moving him up in the order its just a matter of him performing and I think he's about to get hot. EdE is much better protection for a young hitter like Bruce then Dickerson is and having dickerson near the top of the order or on some nights when Dickerson may hit 8th utilizes his speed better and tools

fewfirstchoice
04-09-2009, 03:52 AM
Make a trade with Seattle for Beltre. I'm ready.


That would just make to much sense now wouldnt it. You know by now the Reds do nothing that makes sense. Like this off season they spent money or Taveras, Lincoln, Weathers, Rhodes, Gomes, Nix, and countless other washed up players. When all they had to do was take the money spent on these guys and get a power hitter and a good bull pen arm. But no the Reds instead spend there money on washed up players. I just dont understand the Reds.

improbus
04-09-2009, 10:54 AM
It's very simple. The Reds know that they are going to take a hit financially this season with the weak economy. Look at last nights attendance. It was listed at 13,500, but I'm sure that it wasn't that many. That is day 2 of a season where almost everyone in the media sees the Reds as a "sleeper". It might be because of the Reds' fans mistrust of the franchise, but I think it has more to do with the 8% unemployment in Ohio. As much as we fans may hate it, baseball is a business, and the Reds aren't going to take a loss on a risky player like Jermaine Dye. Sorry, it's not going to happen. I can see some serious fire sales this year, and the Reds didn't want to be among those groups. Currently the Reds are at $71 million, which is only 3 million less than last year. In a way, I'm surprised that it is that high.

leakbrewergator
04-09-2009, 11:10 AM
That would just make to much sense now wouldnt it. You know by now the Reds do nothing that makes sense. Like this off season they spent money or Taveras, Lincoln, Weathers, Rhodes, Gomes, Nix, and countless other washed up players. When all they had to do was take the money spent on these guys and get a power hitter and a good bull pen arm. But no the Reds instead spend there money on washed up players. I just dont understand the Reds.

We need washed up players to go with our washed up manager;) I kid, I kid...

UPRedsFan
04-09-2009, 05:18 PM
There's an article on Reds.com about EE becoming more selective at the plate. He says he's trying to wait for a pitch in his zone and if it's not there take the walk and get on base. Dusty even has praise for Edwin's approach. EE has a career .346 OBP. I expect we'll see him get up into the .375 range this year. If he does that, is #6 the best spot for him in the order? I'd really rather see Dusty flip him with BP.

Now if Dusty could just get Bruce and Phillips to take the same approach to hte plate we'd be on to something!!!

Eric_the_Red
04-09-2009, 05:45 PM
I think the difference between EE hitting 4th and 5th would be neglible over a full season. Doesn't mean it is the wrong decision, but I don't think it would translate to more wins.

Instead of swapping their place in the lineup another option would be to get BP to be just as selective and improve his OBP as well.

schmidty622
04-09-2009, 06:00 PM
I think the difference between EE hitting 4th and 5th would be neglible over a full season. Doesn't mean it is the wrong decision, but I don't think it would translate to more wins.

Instead of swapping their place in the lineup another option would be to get BP to be just as selective and improve his OBP as well.

From what I've seen so far the team as a whole has been pretty good at taking pitches. The one exception was Bruce in the 9th last night. He swung at a bad ball and popped it up when he should have taken ball four.

PhillipsHead
04-09-2009, 07:09 PM
The bad news (thus far) is that we need our 6 hitter to be driving in runs, not drawing walks. That's Taveras' and Dickerson's job...

Kingspoint
04-09-2009, 09:08 PM
Look at last nights attendance. It was listed at 13,500, but I'm sure that it wasn't that many.

That's very sad. I would have thought with all of the excitement of these players and the style of baseball that they'll play that it would have been a sell-out.

UC_Ken
04-09-2009, 09:35 PM
The bad news (thus far) is that we need our 6 hitter to be driving in runs, not drawing walks. That's Taveras' and Dickerson's job...

Right, exactly why BP and EE should be flipped, especially against RHP. BP will make a ton more outs than EE so why would you want his outs preventing Bruce from getting attempts with players on base? I am an EE defender but will admit that he's far from a proven commodity. But he's been around long enough to know he will post a significantly higher OBP than BP and I want Bruce hitting with guys on base.

Root Down
04-09-2009, 11:55 PM
With the way Votto has been hitting I would put him in the 4 slot. This would likely require the 3 and 5 slots to be right handed which could hold BP and EE respectively with Bruce knocking the remainder in at 6th. With Traveras and Dickerson at 1 and 2 this would allow for the L/R alternation through at least 6th that we all know Dusty loves.

UC_Ken
04-10-2009, 10:28 AM
Not a bad idea but the 3 spot is reserved for the best all around hitter on your team and Votto is the only one with any claim on that. I want Votto to get more plate appearances than any of those other three guys. (He won't get more official at bats because Bruce and BP don't consistently draw walks.) I wouldn't mind EE at #2 except that you usually want a good bat handler in the #2 hole and EE was the majors most extreme pull hitter last year.

BigJohn
04-10-2009, 10:41 AM
1 Traveras cf
2 Gonzo ss
3 Bruce rf
4 Votto lf
5 phillips 2nd
6 Encanarcion 1st
7 Janish 3rd
8 Hannigan C
9 Pitcher

Votto has played the outfield before and will work his AS off to get better. He can do it I have every belief in that. Plus he is no worse than the alternatives and it makes our infield better.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=votto-001jos

Eric_the_Red
04-10-2009, 11:42 AM
Yes, but Votto doesn't want to play OF and would probably take offense to the move. He is working at improving his D at first, and I think he can do it. Of any position, 1B may be the easiest to improve at just by practice.

BigJohn
04-10-2009, 11:58 AM
From what I hear about Votto he will do whatever it takes to make the TEAM better.

JBChance
04-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Not a bad idea but the 3 spot is reserved for the best all around hitter on your team and Votto is the only one with any claim on that. I want Votto to get more plate appearances than any of those other three guys. (He won't get more official at bats because Bruce and BP don't consistently draw walks.) I wouldn't mind EE at #2 except that you usually want a good bat handler in the #2 hole and EE was the majors most extreme pull hitter last year.

EdE is hard to locate in the rotation because, while he has power, his OPS is also walk driven. He gets on, but if you put him towards the top of the order, his HR's might create less RBI. He's more of a slugger than on-base guy to me. He should be the guy driving in runs as opposed to a guy that's being driven in.

Problem is, we are short speedy guys w/ high OBP. Taveras was acquired for this, but we all know the debate there. I suppose that Dickerson and Hairston are candidates, but with the platoon, that's basically one player. We may need EdE in front of Votto with his ability to walk.

If we cut him loose completely, that takes another high OPS guy off the roster. His defense is shaky at best, but we don't have another 3B guy with any OPS skills. So, he stays until they decide he's too much of a liability in the field and bring in another 3B that can replace his OPS. You cannot remove him as is. If he moves to LF/ 1B or wherever, that still leaves a hole at 3B that we can't fill. Maybe if they do get a better fielder and hitter for 3B (hard to do), he can move to LF. But not until that time. Rosales/ Janish won't cut it - their OPS last season was .475/ .520 respectively :eek:


From what I hear about Votto he will do whatever it takes to make the TEAM better.

Which would be to work hard and keep improving his 1B defensive skills, imo.

BigJohn
04-10-2009, 12:11 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a7a58ae22-172c-4078-9395-d8867f09fa17&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Eric_the_Red
04-10-2009, 12:26 PM
Yes, Votto wants to help the team win. Moving him to another position to create room for a player may not improve the overall team does not do that. If you move Votto off first for EE, the new player at third had better be an established MLBer.

BigJohn
04-10-2009, 12:35 PM
Oh yeah, we cut Keppinger!

What about Jerry Hairston Jr??

He had a 870 ops last year.

Kingspoint
04-13-2009, 07:52 PM
Yes, but Votto doesn't want to play OF and would probably take offense to the move. He is working at improving his D at first, and I think he can do it. Of any position, 1B may be the easiest to improve at just by practice.


Votto can not like it all he wants. Alonso is going to play 1B when he gets here, no if's, and's, or but's about it.

Of Bruce, Votto, and Alonso, Alonso will have the better Major League numbers.

Kingspoint
04-13-2009, 07:55 PM
EE's not playing 1B for one year.

Foh-get-about-it.

Eric_the_Red
04-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Votto can not like it all he wants. Alonso is going to play 1B when he gets here, no if's, and's, or but's about it.

Of Bruce, Votto, and Alonso, Alonso will have the better Major League numbers.

Remind me exactly how many professional at bats Alonso has?

Kingspoint
04-13-2009, 09:31 PM
You are going to be so surprised at how good Alonso will be. Think Larry Walker without the Defense. They said that of Bruce (as Bruce homers), but that's just not true. It is true with Alonso.

GIDP
04-13-2009, 10:25 PM
I really hate taht Edwin kid.

Eric_the_Red
04-13-2009, 10:40 PM
You are going to be so surprised at how good Alonso will be. Think Larry Walker without the Defense. They said that of Bruce (as Bruce homers), but that's just not true. It is true with Alonso.

I'd love to see it, but I need to see it first. Before we go moving Votto and getting Alonso's plaque in Cooperstown ready, I want to see him play a couple seasons in the minors and a season or two in the bigs as well.

Remember this former Red, who was a first round pick (14th overall) just like Alonso? He also played corner infield, just like Alonso.
His 1st full season in AAA: 14 HR, .255/.312/.415
The next year in AAA: 25 HR, .340/.393/.667
The following year in AAA: 20 HR, .323/.384/.617

So, this success before reaching the majors must have led to an All-Star career, right?

Well in 109 major league games Brandon Larson hit 8 HR, .179/.271/.299. Not saying Alonso will fail, but nobody can say for sure what he will do as a major league player. I think many times fans get too excited over potential, treating projections like a sure thing.

Parrothead Red
04-13-2009, 10:41 PM
:D

ChatterRed
04-14-2009, 12:48 AM
How about that Gran Salami?

Jerome
04-14-2009, 01:11 AM
This thread seems even more hilarious to me now!

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

JBChance
04-14-2009, 01:38 AM
The season, so far, keeps reinforcing that 3B is not the problem.

SS is the biggest problem, by far.

ChatterRed
04-14-2009, 02:28 AM
The season, so far, keeps reinforcing that 3B is not the problem.

SS is the biggest problem, by far.

I agree. I'm concerned about A-Gon. And Janish isn't the answer.

Redlegs
04-14-2009, 08:34 AM
The season, so far, keeps reinforcing that 3B is not the problem.

SS is the biggest problem, by far.

Why would you consider shortstop to be a problem? Alex is scuffling at the plate, but baseball is more than just batting averages and offensive statistics. A healthy Alex Gonzalez will give the team rock solid defense up the middle. He's hitting in the 7th or 8th hole. Any offense he'll be able to provide will be a plus. He'll come around at the dish.

NeilHamburger
04-14-2009, 09:20 AM
That's simply not true, no team (especially this one) can afford to have two pitchers spots in the order every game. Gonzo is 0-14 right now, he's got to be able to hit a little or his value is very low.

BigJohn
04-14-2009, 09:55 AM
On HR and he is a GOD!

GIDP
04-14-2009, 10:00 AM
I agree we should have replaced him with guys whos career best are worse than his career lows.

reds1869
04-14-2009, 10:14 AM
On HR and he is a GOD!

OBPS of .958. That, my friends, puts him 12th in the majors right now among everyday players. Can he keep it up? I don't know. But it is certainly reason for optimism.

DaytonFlyer
04-14-2009, 10:17 AM
If he keeps up this pace, he definitely needs to move up in the order (maybe 3rd) and they need to kick Bruce down to 6th.

But it is still way early, and we've all seen too many slumps from EE to know whether or not this will stick.

However, that was a heck of a home run last night. I had a good feeling when he came to the plate, and he delivered.

xavr1
04-14-2009, 10:17 AM
I'm not as worried about EE up there this year as I am about Gonzalez. Not only does he not have a hit, he looks absolutely clueless in the box. The bottom of our order will be our Achilles Heel if they dont turn it around. You cant count on six 2-out runs every night. Three automatic outs is unacceptable.

BigJohn
04-14-2009, 10:48 AM
After he has 5 or 6 errors are you still willing to keep him at third. My point was that if he can hit then he needs to be somewhere where his arm doesn't cost games.

xavr1
04-14-2009, 11:33 AM
I have always been a proponent of trying him at LF, but who do you put at third who can hit?

BigJohn
04-14-2009, 12:30 PM
How about JHjr

2008 CIN 80 261 47 85 20 2 6 36 23 36 15 3 .326 .384 .487 .871

Nasty_Boy
04-14-2009, 12:34 PM
How old is EE again?

BigJohn
04-14-2009, 12:36 PM
I have no problem with him other than he is an error machine. I say move him to first and he could be a HOF player.

bgwilly31
04-14-2009, 12:53 PM
Well you can thank him for the win last night.

I know that much.

BLEEDS
04-14-2009, 01:02 PM
Of Bruce, Votto, and Alonso, Alonso will have the better Major League numbers.

I'll take that bet.

I also think Alonso may end up at 3rd, and EE in Left.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Pony Boy
04-14-2009, 01:07 PM
EE is not the problem. His defense appears to be very slightly improved and he is showing great patience at the plate. He is our second best hitter at this point. I have no problem with him sticking at third.

I would rate the problems with this team so far in this order:

1. Volquez
2. Cueto
3. Gonzo's bat
4. Hernandez
5. Bruce's plate disipline
6. EE's glove (well his arm actually)

I expect Cueto to take care of himslef. I am beginning to worry about Volquez.

Gozo should start hitting a little bit.

I would love to see Hanigan get more pt. He should at least catch the 3 English speakers.

I think Bruce hits a ton of HRs, but struggles to get on base and hit for average for at least the first half of the season. Right now he is Adam Dunn without the walks.

BigJohn
04-14-2009, 03:18 PM
So none of you think EE will have 25 errors this year, and if he does, who cares?

You think he will hit better this year than last? 70 rbis and 25 hrs is all it takes to make it at 3rd base?

GIDP
04-14-2009, 03:20 PM
I certainly dont think that Jerry Hairston Jr. is better than Edwin.

Fon Duc Tow
04-14-2009, 03:21 PM
How did I know this thread would get bumped back up after last night... :)

Eric_the_Red
04-14-2009, 03:23 PM
So none of you think EE will have 25 errors this year, and if he does, who cares?

You think he will hit better this year than last? 70 rbis and 25 hrs is all it takes to make it at 3rd base?


I'm prepared to wait and see with EE and his glove rather than move him to a new position or give up on him. So far this year he has shown improvement at the plate...why assume he could not also improve in the field?

And I think EE will have his best offensive season this year. I think .280-25-90 is a realistic possibility, which is certainly good enough for 3rd base or any other position.

UC_Ken
04-14-2009, 03:24 PM
We know for a fact that EE is, was, and will be our best RH hitter so I don't care if he has 30 errors because we're weak from that side of the plate anyway. We can't afford to take his bat out of the lineup.

Captain Hook
04-14-2009, 03:34 PM
So none of you think EE will have 25 errors this year, and if he does, who cares?

You think he will hit better this year than last? 70 rbis and 25 hrs is all it takes to make it at 3rd base?

If EE commits 25 errors and hits about the same as he has in the past you are right that doesn't make it.

I for one believe EE will not have 25 errors this season.I think he still will be somewhere around below average as far as the errors go.IMO EE is above average at making plays in the field that others can not thus making him close to average on defense this season.

As far as the offensive numbers go I'm with the people that believe last year was not a high water mark season for him.EE can and will be one of the better hitting 3b in all of baseball starting this season and continuing on for years to come.

I think the question for us fans when it comes to EE is.Is it more realistic to expect Edwin to still improve or to stay the same.I think that with his age and the skill that he has sometime shown in the past that it is very realistic to expect improvement.I expect more than others do.

BigJohn
04-14-2009, 03:35 PM
Don't you think he is less of a liablity at 1st or LF?

He had 7 errors in spring ball, he has had none yet. Maybe he won't make many this year.
I hope you guys are right.

Captain Hook
04-14-2009, 04:08 PM
As far as a position change goes I think that it sounds like a good idea.I guess the coaching staff probably looked at that and decided that it wasn't the best move.I'll have to trust their judgment on this one.

I hope that the optimistic people are right as well.EE could really make this offense go if he meets expectations.

Bumstead
04-14-2009, 05:56 PM
I don't think we have any way of knowing if he would be less of a defensive liability in LF or at 1B as we have never seen him play those positions. Offensively, he is an above-average 3B with the potential to improve in that area. I think Votto stays at 1B until Alonso pushes him to LF; I believe that is the only way Votto moves off 1B. We do not have a better 3B than EE at this point anyway, so it makes no sense to move him. I believe that he is still young enough to improve defensively, and if not, we have some guys that will be coming up in the next year or two that can play 3B. He will either improve or be traded in the next year or two.

Bum

BigJohn
04-15-2009, 09:58 AM
+1 for JHJ
-1 for EE

:)

Nasty_Boy
04-15-2009, 10:35 AM
This thread will go like this... When Edwin does well people will come on here, state he's breaking out and let everyone know that they knew it was coming. When he throws the ball over Votto's head, Big John will come on here give us a +/- and tell us he's not worth the trouble at 3rd... Lather, Rinse, Repeat

Eric_the_Red
04-15-2009, 10:38 AM
^ Agreed. I'd like to see Big John's YTD points for EE and JHJr.

BigJohn
04-15-2009, 10:46 AM
Boys, the smiley face means just having fun. Lighten up a bit. I do hope you all are right and I will root for EE to get better at 3rd.
I just think for him he would be better suited for 1st. He has a good glove but his arm is a mess at times and it appears to be caused by his head. I know if I was the defensive coach(Spier?) I would be working his AZZ off!

Nasty_Boy
04-15-2009, 10:50 AM
I guess I should have entered a "smiley" myself. :rockband:

Jerome
04-15-2009, 11:13 AM
I watched the A's/Sox game last night and Bobby Crosby botched about 4 balls at third--and he can't even hit. There are other thirdbasemen out there that f'up all the time. I'm not making excuses for EE--he should make his throws--I'm just sayin' I think this thread should be closed for the exact reason Nasty Boy pointed out; good game= EE should stay, bad game= EE should go. That reminds me of my favorite Clash song.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

BigJohn
05-04-2009, 02:31 PM
Where will he go when he returns?

:)