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Matt700wlw
04-06-2009, 01:50 PM
Miller takes Arizona job
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
1 hour, 8 minutes ago

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Return to Original Buzz up! PrintMore From Dan WetzelFeeling the hometown love Apr 6, 2009 Revolutionary Fab Five still resonates Apr 5, 2009

Sean Miller accepted the job as head coach of the Arizona Wildcats on Monday, one day after turning the position down, a source close to the negotiations told Yahoo! Sports.

Miller told Arizona he would remain at Xavier late last night, then asked for a chance to sleep on the decision. After going back and forth during the morning, a source said, he informed XU athletic director Mike Bobinski of his decision at noon ET.

Miller could not immediately be reached for comment. A message left for Xavier officials has not been immediately returned.

Miller led Xavier to two Elite Eights and a Sweet 16 over five seasons. His overall record 120-47. He had met with UA officials Sunday in Santa Fe, N.M. and flown back to Cincinnati to make his final decision.


Miller and Bobinski met at the coach’s home Monday morning when, according to a source, Miller informed Bobinski he was taking the UA job. Miller has also informed UA athletic director Jim Livengood, who was under immense pressure to hire a replacement for Hall of Famer Lute Olson.

Miller’s deal is for seven years, $18 million, which includes a $1 million signing bonus, according to the source.

Arizona has been to 25 consecutive NCAA tournaments, the best active streak in college basketball and second all time to a 27-year North Carolina run.

improbus
04-06-2009, 02:05 PM
And the carousel continues.

BRM
04-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Wow, what a turn of events. Sad news for X fans.

jmcclain19
04-06-2009, 02:34 PM
Awesome news.

Sorry Xavier fans - that's a no brainer decision. UA still has one of the top jobs in the nation with resources available that is only matched at a few other schools.

As a UA Alum, this is exciting news.

Boston Red
04-06-2009, 02:39 PM
Sorry Xavier fans - that's a no brainer decision.

Apparently it wasn't.

HBP
04-06-2009, 03:05 PM
I know it's early, but any thoughts on who the replacement will be? As a UD fan, I'm not upset that X may be weaker w/o him, but it's not really good for the A10 either.

dabvu2498
04-06-2009, 03:18 PM
I would go after Brownell from Wright State.

Boston Red
04-06-2009, 03:20 PM
My choice is Fran McCaffery.

BRM
04-06-2009, 03:26 PM
Dab's real first choice is Dane Fife.

dabvu2498
04-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Dab's real first choice is Dane Fife. Nope. Buzz Peterson or Kevin O'Neill. :)

camisadelgolf
04-06-2009, 03:43 PM
I think Xavier will probably go after Bob Huggins.[/troll]

BRM
04-06-2009, 03:47 PM
Isiah Thomas would love to get back into coaching.

dabvu2498
04-06-2009, 04:00 PM
Isiah Thomas would love to get back into coaching. So would Tom Crean. Running for governor was exhausting.

AccordinglyReds
04-06-2009, 04:01 PM
As a Cats fan, I'm happy Miller is going to Arizona. I was hoping Livengood would go for Pastner if Miller declined, but I'd rather have Miller than Floyd....any day.

Sucks though for Xavier.

BRM
04-06-2009, 04:02 PM
So would Tom Crean. Running for governor was exhausting.

:laugh:

He is THE MAN in Indiana, that's for sure. Well, except in West Lafayette and South Bend of course.

WMR
04-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Kevin Stallings.

Reds4Life
04-06-2009, 05:05 PM
Awesome news.

Sorry Xavier fans - that's a no brainer decision. UA still has one of the top jobs in the nation with resources available that is only matched at a few other schools.

As a UA Alum, this is exciting news.

I guess Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino, John Calipari and Jeff Capel didn't see it as a no-brainer. In all honesty, Zona is going to be a major rebuild, the cupboard is bare, and that isn't something that many want to take on. Considering Miller has zero west cost recruiting ties, I'm not sure how successful he's going to be there, looks to me like a cash grab and that is about it.

BRM
04-06-2009, 05:07 PM
Kevin Stallings.

Trying to give Dab a heart attack?

dabvu2498
04-06-2009, 05:12 PM
Trying to give Dab a heart attack? Nah. No reason he would leave the best job in America.

AccordinglyReds
04-06-2009, 05:20 PM
I guess Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino, John Calipari and Jeff Capel didn't see it as a no-brainer. In all honesty, Zona is going to be a major rebuild, the cupboard is bare, and that isn't something that many want to take on. Considering Miller has zero west cost recruiting ties, I'm not sure how successful he's going to be there, looks to me like a cash grab and that is about it.

1) Rick Pitino would never have gone to Arizona.
2) Calipari had UK from the get-go, so he didn't have to decide on that.
3) I don't even think UA reps or Livengood even talked to Capel, but rather it was Floyd that was being targeted and the media got it wrong.
4) Floyd--he thought about it; and said no. So you're right for him it was not a no-brainer.

Yeah, it's a rebuild, but that doesn't mean the Arizona job doesn't have its perks.

Reds4Life
04-06-2009, 05:24 PM
1) Rick Pitino would never have gone to Arizona.
2) Calipari had UK from the get-go, so he didn't have to decide on that.
3) I don't even think UA reps or Livengood even talked to Capel, but rather it was Floyd that was being targeted and the media got it wrong.
4) Floyd--he thought about it; and said no. So you're right for him it was not a no-brainer.

Yeah, it's a rebuild, but that doesn't mean the Arizona job doesn't have its perks.

Arizona contacted Calipari before he left for UK.

BRM
04-06-2009, 05:25 PM
Nah. No reason he would leave the best job in America.

When did he get to UK? :rolleyes:

:p:

AccordinglyReds
04-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Arizona contacted Calipari before he left for UK.

What I'm saying is it would have been UK or bust...and gone back to Memphis.

I am sooo glad he couldn't come to Arizona. :)

BRM
04-06-2009, 05:33 PM
I am sooo glad he couldn't come to Arizona. :)

Is that because you don't like Calipari or because Miller was your preferred candidate?

Reds4Life
04-06-2009, 05:38 PM
Can you explain why you feel Miller is such a great fit? Personally, since you guys are hurting for recruits, I would have wanted someone with ties to west coast recruiting, and Miller has zero. Guys like Pitino and Calipari didn't either, but they are big enough names to make up for it....Miller isn't.

Boston Red
04-06-2009, 05:40 PM
I hope Miller fails spectacularly.

Reds4Life
04-06-2009, 05:48 PM
I hope Miller fails spectacularly.

I'm guessing you are a Xavier fan. They will hire someone else, I really don't see Miller's departure having a huge impact on the program. Unfortunatly, until they are out of the A10, it will always be seen as a stepping stone program no matter how good it is. Xavier should look into D1 football (even if it's a crappy program) so they could boost thier chances of moving into a better conference.

Boston Red
04-06-2009, 05:48 PM
Yeah, I'll be rational about this tomorrow.

dabvu2498
04-06-2009, 05:57 PM
I'm guessing you are a Xavier fan. They will hire someone else, I really don't see Miller's departure having a huge impact on the program. Unfortunatly, until they are out of the A10, it will always be seen as a stepping stone program no matter how good it is. Xavier should look into D1 football (even if it's a crappy program) so they could boost thier chances of moving into a better conference. What conference could they get in if they had crappy football that would increase their status? CUSA? Missouri Valley? OVC?

AccordinglyReds
04-06-2009, 05:58 PM
Is that because you don't like Calipari or because Miller was your preferred candidate?

I don't like Calipari. :)

I would have liked Capel or Pastner just as much as Miller; but Capel most likely wasn't even considered, and Pastner would have been the backup plan if that for Miller. I'm satisfied, though.


Can you explain why you feel Miller is such a great fit? Personally, since you guys are hurting for recruits, I would have wanted someone with ties to west coast recruiting, and Miller has zero. Guys like Pitino and Calipari didn't either, but they are big enough names to make up for it....Miller isn't.

Great fit? I don't know. Good coach? Yes. And given the small amount of names out there for the job that would be good, I feel Miller is a good pick. There has to be some conceding when searching for a replacement of Olson (Pennell was a stopgap; but enjoyed his stay). I'd like someone for the long haul and not a great coach to be there just for a few years. Not guaranteeing Miller will be there forever, but it's more likely than not. Once again, if you're going to throw Pitino and Calipari out there, maybe I should be upset John Wooden or Roy Williams didn't get the job. Not everyone is available, and UA has to work with what they've got to choose from. It's not fans like UK screaming for a coach to take them to the Final Four the next year--patience is needed and frankly I have that in Miller.

WMR
04-06-2009, 06:09 PM
An Arizona fan living in Kentucky. LOL

dabvu2498
04-06-2009, 06:16 PM
An Arizona fan living in Kentucky. LOLWould you laugh at a Kentucky fan living in Arizona? An Indiana fan living in Colorado? Yes! Anyway... Some people's fandoms are based on more than geography.

BRM
04-06-2009, 06:54 PM
Would you laugh at a Kentucky fan living in Arizona? An Indiana fan living in Colorado? Yes! Anyway... Some people's fandoms are based on more than geography.

Why kind of crazy Hoosier fan would live in Colorado?

WMR
04-06-2009, 08:35 PM
Would you laugh at a Kentucky fan living in Arizona? An Indiana fan living in Colorado? Yes! Anyway... Some people's fandoms are based on more than geography.

I should've stated "A person FROM Kentucky rooting for Arizona." Sorry.

Maybe he's a transplant. If so, it's understandable.

Heath
04-06-2009, 09:23 PM
Hi, I'm Billy Clyde Gillespie, and I approve this coaching move.

Razor Shines
04-07-2009, 03:31 AM
Why kind of crazy Hoosier fan would live in Colorado?

Well I'm sure he has several mental deficiencies. Most likely a pervert as well.

cincrazy
04-07-2009, 08:05 AM
I guess Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino, John Calipari and Jeff Capel didn't see it as a no-brainer. In all honesty, Zona is going to be a major rebuild, the cupboard is bare, and that isn't something that many want to take on. Considering Miller has zero west cost recruiting ties, I'm not sure how successful he's going to be there, looks to me like a cash grab and that is about it.

Well, Capel, Floyd, Pitino and Cal aren't up and coming coaches leaving a small conference school. This IS a no brainer. The only reason he went back and forth is because he probably felt horrible for leaving his players, which is understandable. Capel has great resources and a strong program at OU. Pitino and Floyd are winding down their coaching careers and are very successful where they are at, on top of being in major conferences. And Cal... well, when Kentucky comes calling, you go.

Arizona is a great job, and Sean Miller will be a fantastic coach for them.

paintmered
04-07-2009, 08:31 AM
The coaching carousel will continue as long as Xavier stays in the A-10. It's an unfortunate reality and I do feel for X fans because Sean is a good guy and a successful coach.

Maybe when the Big East splits in a few years, X (and UD) can join the rest of the private Big East schools. That would go a long way to ensuring some stability.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 08:50 AM
Maybe when the Big East splits in a few years, X (and UD) can join the rest of the private Big East schools. That would go a long way to ensuring some stability.

Why is there an assumption that the Big East will split? I've never seen any indication it will happen as long as Notre Dame stays independent in football.

BRM
04-07-2009, 08:56 AM
Well I'm sure he has several mental deficiencies. Most likely a pervert as well.
:lol:

I left the door wide open for that one, didn't I?

Hoosier Red
04-07-2009, 08:58 AM
I think eventually the Big East will prove too unwieldy. 16 teams in conference means you only play a select number twice. I know the SEC has 16 teams, but they have a more distinctive east west split. It would be hard to break the Big East into two divisions without eliminating some big time rivalries.
Of course if the Big East did split into two conferences(public/Private) it would end those rivalries too. (Villanova, Georgetown, St. Johns vs. Syracuse and UConn.)
Personally I think 11 or 12 is too big for a conference, I prefer 8 or 10 team conferences.

WVRed
04-07-2009, 09:21 AM
Well, Capel, Floyd, Pitino and Cal aren't up and coming coaches leaving a small conference school. This IS a no brainer. The only reason he went back and forth is because he probably felt horrible for leaving his players, which is understandable. Capel has great resources and a strong program at OU. Pitino and Floyd are winding down their coaching careers and are very successful where they are at, on top of being in major conferences. And Cal... well, when Kentucky comes calling, you go.

Arizona is a great job, and Sean Miller will be a fantastic coach for them.

Between this and Pastner taking the Memphis job, I could see some rammifications in about four years.

Say Miller doesn't live up to expectations or he does and the Pitt job comes open and Pastner does an excellent job. If Miller is let go, Pastner will likely be the first in line for Arizona.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 10:58 AM
It's an unfortunate reality and I do feel for X fans because Sean is a good guy and a successful coach.

I think he disgraced himself in the way in which he left, particularly his actions vis-a-vis Bobinski and the players. I really doubt many XU supporters will harbor good will for him going forward, especially if (as rumored) he's going to eviscerate the program by encouraging transfers and decommits on his way out.

It's hilarious. 2009-10 was going to be the dream season, and this year was just a delicious deep-fried cheesy appetizer for what's to come. And now it's turning into a nightmare without a ball being dribbled in anger.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 11:04 AM
I think he disgraced himself in the way in which he left, particularly his actions vis-a-vis Bobinski and the players. I really doubt many XU supporters will harbor good will for him going forward, especially if (as rumored) he's going to eviscerate the program by encouraging transfers and decommits on his way out. It's hilarious. 2009-10 was going to be the dream season, and this year was just a delicious deep-fried cheesy appetizer for what's to come. And now it's turning into a nightmare without a ball being dribbled in anger. That is why they almost have to hire Chris Mack.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 11:05 AM
That is why they almost have to hire Chris Mack.

I hope Mack gets the job, and I hope that he brings in an older, more experienced coach as assistant/mentor.

improbus
04-07-2009, 11:06 AM
I think he disgraced himself in the way in which he left, particularly his actions vis-a-vis Bobinski and the players. I really doubt many XU supporters will harbor good will for him going forward, especially if (as rumored) he's going to eviscerate the program by encouraging transfers and decommits on his way out.

It's hilarious. 2009-10 was going to be the dream season, and this year was just a delicious deep-fried cheesy appetizer for what's to come. And now it's turning into a nightmare without a ball being dribbled in anger.
Imagine how Memphis feels. They might not even field a competitive basketball team.

BRM
04-07-2009, 11:11 AM
Imagine how Memphis feels. They might not even field a competitive basketball team.

The hiring of Pastner may allow them to keep their current roster intact. Plus, they will probably keep Xavier Henry now. They should be fine next year.

Reds4Life
04-07-2009, 11:44 AM
That is why they almost have to hire Chris Mack.

Mack would be a poor hire for X, in my view. He isn't ready for that job, and Xavier is in a position where they can get someone with head coaching expierence instead of settling for an assistant.

BRM
04-07-2009, 11:45 AM
Wouldn't Mack have a pretty good shot at preventing the current recruits and players from de-commiting and transferring?

WVRed
04-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Mack would be a poor hire for X, in my view. He isn't ready for that job, and Xavier is in a position where they can get someone with head coaching expierence instead of settling for an assistant.

It's worked before with Sean Miller.

Reds4Life
04-07-2009, 11:49 AM
It's worked before with Sean Miller.

And it doesn't mean it will work again. X has gotten lucky with thier last few coaching searches, sooner or later that luck is going to run out.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 11:54 AM
People on the radio want Louis Orr. Hmm.

BRM
04-07-2009, 11:55 AM
People on the radio want Louis Orr. Hmm.

Is there a past X connection with him or something?

EDIT: He was an assistant at Xavier once upon a time.

WMR
04-07-2009, 12:27 PM
Kevin Stallings should be a candidate for the X job.

BRM
04-07-2009, 12:33 PM
Kevin Stallings should be a candidate for the X job.

Dab says he has the greatest job in America at the moment. Why would he leave that? ;)

WMR
04-07-2009, 12:34 PM
Ha. No, seriously, he would be a great hire for them and I think X is a better job than Vandy.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 12:38 PM
Ha. No, seriously, he would be a great hire for them and I think X is a better job than Vandy. Marbles=lost.

WMR
04-07-2009, 12:49 PM
Marbles=lost.

Memphis & X = Jobs in smaller conferences that give a coach a better chance to win big than Vanderbilt (academic "standards")

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 01:03 PM
Memphis & X = Jobs in smaller conferences that give a coach a better chance to win big than Vanderbilt (academic "standards") The academic standards at Vandy are easily offset by financial resources. Check Stallings salary. Besides, X has some fairly tough academic standards themselves. I know, you're just sick of Vandy beating UK.

WMR
04-07-2009, 01:11 PM
The academic standards at Vandy are easily offset by financial resources. Check Stallings salary. Besides, X has some fairly tough academic standards themselves. I know, you're just sick of Vandy beating UK.

Too bad those financial resources that Vandy is apparently pouring into their athletic department can't afford them the luxury of an Athletic Director. Wait, do they even *have* an athletic department? :confused:

Yeah Stallings' 38% career winning percentage versus UK isn't shabby at all.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 01:20 PM
Too bad those financial resources that Vandy is apparently pouring into their athletic department can't afford them the luxury of an Athletic Director. Wait, do they even *have* an athletic department? :confused: Yeah Stallings' 38% career winning percentage versus UK isn't shabby at all. They could have an athletic director and athletic department. They choose not to. Ironic that the increased athletic success of the university came after the elimination of the ad? Maybe. I know that they are alot better at athletics than they used to be. Including 6-2 vs. UK in their last 8 mens basketball games. Why haven't more schools done it?

WMR
04-07-2009, 01:25 PM
They could have an athletic director and athletic department. They choose not to. Ironic that the increased athletic success of the university came after the elimination of the ad? Maybe. I know that they are alot better at athletics than they used to be. Including 6-2 vs. UK in their last 8 mens basketball games. Why haven't more schools done it?

I actually have lots of love for Vandy. Giving Tubby those 4 consecutive beatings helped get him out of Lexington.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 01:31 PM
I actually have lots of love for Vandy. Giving Tubby those 4 consecutive beatings helped get him out of Lexington. ummm... ok

BRM
04-07-2009, 01:40 PM
ummm... ok

C'mon, Dab. The UK program was light years better these past two seasons without Tubby.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Mack would be a poor hire for X, in my view. He isn't ready for that job, and Xavier is in a position where they can get someone with head coaching expierence instead of settling for an assistant.

What gives you that idea?

Gillen - never a head coach
Prosser - one year at Loyola College
Matta - one year at Butler
Miller - never a head coach

Mack's got 8 years of apprenticing for Sean and Skip, pre-existing relationships with players and recruits, and is an alum. And frankly the candidates with coaching experience that have actually been linked to the job (McCaffery, Groce) aren't exactly inspiring.

I might agree with you if we were talking about Ken McDonald or Brad Stevens. But I don't think either would be interested in the gig at this time.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 01:47 PM
C'mon, Dab. The UK program was light years better these past two seasons without Tubby. yeah I hear that. It's just easier to bash Tubby and Vandy than it is to make a real argument. ;)

BRM
04-07-2009, 01:48 PM
I think Mack would be a good hire for X from what I've heard and read about him.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 01:51 PM
What gives you that idea? Gillen - never a head coach Prosser - one year at Loyola College Matta - one year at Butler Miller - never a head coach Mack's got 8 years of apprenticing for Sean and Skip, pre-existing relationships with players and recruits, and is an alum. And frankly the candidates with coaching experience that have actually been linked to the job (McCaffery, Groce) aren't exactly inspiring. I might agree with you if we were talking about Ken McDonald or Brad Stevens. But I don't think either would be interested in the gig at this time. Is Mccaffery really an option? I thought that was a joke when posted yesterday.

Reds4Life
04-07-2009, 01:53 PM
What gives you that idea?

Gillen - never a head coach
Prosser - one year at Loyola College
Matta - one year at Butler
Miller - never a head coach

Mack's got 8 years of apprenticing for Sean and Skip, pre-existing relationships with players and recruits, and is an alum. And frankly the candidates with coaching experience that have actually been linked to the job (McCaffery, Groce) aren't exactly inspiring.

I might agree with you if we were talking about Ken McDonald or Brad Stevens. But I don't think either would be interested in the gig at this time.

I would at least try Stevens before you hire an assistant. 50% of the coaches you listed at least had some expierence as the top guy, even if it's just 1 year. What about Brownell at Wright State? He would be a good target for Xavier.

It will be hard due to the A10, but if Xavier wants to get out of the habit of being a stepping stone, they need to pony up the cash and go get a coach who's done it before.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 01:53 PM
McCaffery was the second choice when Xavier hired Matta and has been fantastic at Siena.

Obviously Stallings isn't going to leave Vandy for Xavier, but I highly doubt a successful coach would leave Xavier for Vandy these days either.

Speaking of the SEC, Darrin Horn has been mentioned as a potential candidate.

BRM
04-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Didn't Stevens just sign an extension?

I think X fans would be happy with Brownell too.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 02:00 PM
Didn't Stevens just sign an extension?

Yes, but in the post-Calipari college basketball environment that's pretty much irrelevant.


I think X fans would be happy with Brownell too.

I would consider it very underwhelming.

BRM
04-07-2009, 02:00 PM
I just looked it up. It was just a one year extension but he is signed through the 15-16 season. I don't know for sure but I would guess the buyout is a hefty one.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 02:01 PM
I'd be thrilled with Stevens, Brownell or McCaffery and underwhelmed by Chris Mack. However, I have 100% faith in Bobinski's decisionmaking ability. If he thinks Mack is the guy, then I'm on board.

BRM
04-07-2009, 02:02 PM
I would consider it very underwhelming.

Interesting. Would you consider him to be a better hire than one of the current assistants though?

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 02:02 PM
I just looked it up. It was just a one year extension but he is signed through the 15-16 season. I don't know for sure but I would guess the buyout is a hefty one.

Xavier is supposed to get $2 million from AZ for Miller's buyout. That is probably sufficient to cover a Stevens buyout.

BRM
04-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Xavier is supposed to get $2 million from AZ for Miller's buyout. That is probably sufficient to cover a Stevens buyout.

Ah, I forgot about that. You're probably right.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 02:08 PM
Yes, but in the post-Calipari college basketball environment that's pretty much irrelevant. I would consider it very underwhelming. Brownell is an impressive, impressive guy. What he did with that bunch this year was quite remarkable. I think he could use the resources at X to continue the course of the program in recruiting. And the man has the x and o stuff to get it done.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Interesting. Would you consider him to be a better hire than one of the current assistants though?

I would be back-and-forth on the matter.

Let me see if I can explain my thinking:

Mack has been an assistant at X and Wake during a period of time where both schools have generally been Top 25 programs. He has recruited at that level and coached (albeit as an assistant) at that level. He's got a good relationship with the current players and recruits. Furthermore, he's an XU guy and a native and therefore less of a flight risk.

Brownell has been a terrific success at much lower profile schools. Will he have the juice to bring in the 4-star recruits Xavier is seeking? Will he be able to keep the current team together?

Compare Brownell to my two preferred "experience" guys. Stevens had a Top 25 team last year and even though he is more of a "system" coach he's had some big recruiting scores (Matt Howard, for example). Ken McDonald was Rick Barnes' recruiter at Texas as recently as two years ago, and proved he could succeed with a loaded WKU team this season.

More and more basketball exists on tiers. I would rather XU's new staff be oriented to the 'major' tier than the 'midmajor' tier, if that makes any sense.

BRM
04-07-2009, 02:13 PM
And the man has the x and o stuff to get it done.

This is one of the biggest things I've heard about Brownell. He's a very, very good X's and O's guy.

jimbo
04-07-2009, 02:20 PM
I think X fans would be happy with Brownell too.

One of the best X's and O's coach around, but can he recruit like he'll need to at Xavier? A bit risky, IMO.

BRM
04-07-2009, 02:21 PM
I would be back-and-forth on the matter.

Let me see if I can explain my thinking:

Mack has been an assistant at X and Wake during a period of time where both schools have generally been Top 25 programs. He has recruited at that level and coached (albeit as an assistant) at that level. He's got a good relationship with the current players and recruits. Furthermore, he's an XU guy and a native and therefore less of a flight risk.

Brownell has been a terrific success at much lower profile schools. Will he have the juice to bring in the 4-star recruits Xavier is seeking? Will he be able to keep the current team together?

Compare Brownell to my two preferred "experience" guys. Stevens had a Top 25 team last year and even though he is more of a "system" coach he's had some big recruiting scores (Matt Howard, for example). Ken McDonald was Rick Barnes' recruiter at Texas as recently as two years ago, and proved he could succeed with a loaded WKU team this season.

More and more basketball exists on tiers. I would rather XU's new staff be oriented to the 'major' tier than the 'midmajor' tier, if that makes any sense.

That makes a lot of sense, dsmith. I understand where you are coming from. I still think Brownell would be a good hire but I can certainly understand why you prefer guys like Butler and McDonald.

BRM
04-07-2009, 02:24 PM
One of the best X's and O's coach around, but can he recruit like he'll need to at Xavier? A bit risky, IMO.

No doubt. Sometimes taking those risks can pay off big-time though. It probably doesn't matter anyway because odds are Mack will get the job.

Reds4Life
04-07-2009, 02:28 PM
One of the best X's and O's coach around, but can he recruit like he'll need to at Xavier? A bit risky, IMO.

No less risky than Mack. He's never had to recruit on his own, at least the other coaches have.

WMR
04-07-2009, 03:11 PM
yeah I hear that. It's just easier to bash Tubby and Vandy than it is to make a real argument. ;)

8-13. Argument finished. Cherrypicking Tubby's last two years is weak sauce. 2-2 versus BCG. Admirable achievement.

You make one bowl game in a million years and all of a sudden every other school should follow athletic superpower Vanderbilt's lead and abolish their athletic departments? :laugh: Didn't think I needed an argument for that one. :D Of course, who can forget that one amazing run to the elite eight back in 1965?

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 03:30 PM
8-13. Argument finished. Cherrypicking Tubby's last two years is weak sauce. 2-2 versus BCG. Admirable achievement. You make one bowl game in a million years and all of a sudden every other school should follow athletic superpower Vanderbilt's lead and abolish their athletic departments? :laugh: Didn't think I needed an argument for that one. :D Of course, who can forget that one amazing run to the elite eight back in 1965? Still a better gig than X, which was your forgotten original point. It's fun to get you off topic.

WMR
04-07-2009, 03:33 PM
Still a better gig than X, which was your forgotten original point. It's fun to get you off topic.

I thought that's what *I* was doing? :D

Still disagree.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 03:34 PM
Still a better gig than X, which was your forgotten original point. It's fun to get you off topic.

Arguably.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 03:45 PM
Arguably. Ok. Let's hear it. But first you should be aware that Stallings makes about 1.7 million, Vandy plays in the SEC and is a top 20 academic university in the country.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 03:50 PM
Isn't it all about winning? Xavier wins (including in March). Vandy does okay on that front, but they would be better off in the A-10 frankly.

If you want to win, history says Xavier is a better bet. If you just want to get paid, Vandy might be the place for you.

WMR
04-07-2009, 03:53 PM
Isn't it all about winning? Xavier wins (including in March). Vandy does okay on that front, but they would be better off in the A-10 frankly.

If you want to win, history says Xavier is a better bet. If you just want to get paid, Vandy might be the place for you.

Exactly. Your chances of going to a Final Four or Elite Eight are much better at X.

How much was Miller making at Xavier?

BRM
04-07-2009, 03:56 PM
How much was Miller making at Xavier?

850K per year according to ESPN.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 03:58 PM
850K per year according to ESPN.

The Enquirer had it at closer to $1.1 million. The counteroffer to Miller was supposedly in the neighborhood of $1.5 million.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 03:59 PM
Isn't it all about winning? Xavier wins (including in March). Vandy does okay on that front, but they would be better off in the A-10 frankly. If you want to win, history says Xavier is a better bet. If you just want to get paid, Vandy might be the place for you. Beating Fordham and St. Bonaventure must be quite thrilling! Don't get me wrong. I respect and love X. Used to have season tix when my wife worked there. But reds4life is right, until they make the Final 4, X is still dragged down by the A10.

WMR
04-07-2009, 04:01 PM
I'm glad that Vandy is in the SEC. They are an amazing academic institution (The Harvard of the South). Their athletic teams are ALWAYS scrappy.

That being typed... if I was trying to win a National Championship, I wouldn't go there over Xavier.

BRM
04-07-2009, 04:03 PM
The Enquirer had it at closer to $1.1 million. The counteroffer to Miller was supposedly in the neighborhood of $1.5 million.

I wonder if that figure contains incentives that ESPN didn't include. This is from the ESPN article when he left for Arizona.



Miller signed a 10-year contract extension with Xavier after the team went 30-7 and reached the regional finals in 2007-08. He was making $850,000 per year, but insisted money was not a factor in the move.

BRM
04-07-2009, 04:05 PM
That being typed... if I was trying to win a National Championship, I wouldn't go there over Xavier.

It's going to be tough trying to win a National Championship at either one though. I'm not sure I'd automatically choose X based on that factor.

WMR
04-07-2009, 04:06 PM
It's going to be tough trying to win a National Championship at either one, honestly.

Agreed.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 04:09 PM
I'm glad that Vandy is in the SEC. They are an amazing academic institution (The Harvard of the South). Their athletic teams are ALWAYS scrappy. That being typed... if I was trying to win a National Championship, I wouldn't go there over Xavier. You're right. X is a better place to advance on to a better gig where you can win a national championship. Unfortunately, that is what history tells us.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Beating Fordham and St. Bonaventure must be quite thrilling! Don't get me wrong. I respect and love X. Used to have season tix when my wife worked there. But reds4life is right, until they make the Final 4, X is still dragged down by the A10.

Well, that's fine, but Xavier also won twice in the NCAA Tournament this year, three times last year, once the year before that and three times in 2004. In the last six Tournaments, that's 9 wins. How far does Vandy have to stretch back to find 9 NCAA Tournament wins?

Xavier is dragged down a bit by the A-10, but since Xavier joined the league in 1996, 5 of the current members have advanced at least to the Elite Eight (X has been there twice). So the ceiling is plenty high in the A-10.

WMR
04-07-2009, 04:10 PM
You're right. X is a better place to advance on to a better gig where you can win a national championship. Unfortunately, that is what history tells us.

hehehe. :laugh: :D

BRM
04-07-2009, 04:11 PM
You're right. X is a better place to advance on to a better gig where you can win a national championship. Unfortunately, that is what history tells us.

That's a pretty good way to put it. Xavier is a better stepping stone job than Vanderbilt.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 04:19 PM
That's a pretty good way to put it. Xavier is a better stepping stone job than Vanderbilt.

I wonder sometimes whether the BCS-program fans that deign to comment on "precious little Xavier" realize how sanctimonious and condescending they are.

WMR
04-07-2009, 04:22 PM
Do you think X should leave the A10, dsmith?

BRM
04-07-2009, 04:23 PM
I wonder sometimes whether the BCS-program fans that deign to comment on "precious little Xavier" realize how sanctimonious and condescending they are.

I certainly didn't mean it that way. My apologies as I really do like Xavier and wish them nothing but the best. It would be nice if X could get a coach to stay there for a long period of time and keep building the program up. Unfotunately, I just don't see it happening.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 04:23 PM
Well, that's fine, but Xavier also won twice in the NCAA Tournament this year, three times last year, once the year before that and three times in 2004. In the last six Tournaments, that's 9 wins. How far does Vandy have to stretch back to find 9 NCAA Tournament wins? Xavier is dragged down a bit by the A-10, but since Xavier joined the league in 1996, 5 of the current members have advanced at least to the Elite Eight (X has been there twice). So the ceiling is plenty high in the A-10. 1993 I think. And all 12 sec members have made the tourney and been ranked in the top 25 in the last 12 years. It's apples and oranges to even compare conferences.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 04:32 PM
1993 I think. And all 12 sec members have made the tourney and been ranked in the top 25 in the last 12 years. It's apples and oranges to even compare conferences.


Of course it is. But the conference itself isn't really that important. Just that it doesn't hold you down. Clearly, the A-10 does not provide a ceiling. St. Joe's was #1 for an entire season in 2004. UMass was #1 in 1996 for most of the year and were the only team that had a shot to beat Kentucky. It's absolutely possible to advance deep in March out of the A-10. Five programs have done it recently.

Again, I think Vandy would actually be better off in the A-10. Being in the best conference isn't always an advantage.

If you go back to 1993, Xavier adds 4 more NCAA Tournament wins. The Prosser years were kind of lean in March.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Do you think X should leave the A10, dsmith?

Remember Winston Churchill's quote about democracy? Paraphrasing, he said it's the worst form of government except for all the other ones.

Well, the A-10 is not an ideal situation for Xavier but all the other reasonably possible situations are worse.

We're not joining the Big East. UC vetoed our involvement during expansion and money talks. Every one of the other five BCS leagues includes football. Xavier is not restarting a football program. C-USA and the MVC are lateral moves and involve association with schools that aren't realistically aligned with Xavier.

The only realistic option right now is a better A-10. So you either have to marshall the votes to kick schools out (good luck) or put together a breakout group. And I'm not sure there are enough similarly situated schools to do so right now. Dayton and SLU are natural partners, maybe you could lure Butler but it's not like Marquette and DePaul are itching to dump Louisville for the chance to play at Hinkle Fieldhouse every year.

And besides, a conference with Dayton, SLU, Butler and a few other Midwestern Catholic schools existed, it was called the MCC, and everyone said Xavier's conference sucked then, too.

So until there's some shakeup in the BCS leagues Xavier does not have anywhere to go.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
Of course it is. But the conference itself isn't really that important. Just that it doesn't hold you down. Clearly, the A-10 does not provide a ceiling. St. Joe's was #1 for an entire season in 2004. UMass was #1 in 1996 for most of the year and were the only team that had a shot to beat Kentucky. It's absolutely possible to advance deep in March out of the A-10. Five programs have done it recently. Again, I think Vandy would actually be better off in the A-10. Being in the best conference isn't always an advantage. If you go back to 1993, Xavier adds 4 more NCAA Tournament wins. The Prosser years were kind of lean in March. Conference matters in this regard - other than postseason, how many times has X played on national TV in the last few years inside the conference. Beating UD on espn this season was nice. But it doesn't compare to beating two number on teams in the same season, one on cbs, one on espn.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 05:11 PM
Conference matters in this regard - other than postseason, how many times has X played on national TV in the last few years inside the conference. Beating UD on espn this season was nice. But it doesn't compare to beating two number on teams in the same season, one on cbs, one on espn.

This year we had Duke on CBS, LSU on ESPN, Cincinnati on ESPN, Memphis on ESPN (or the Deuce), plus a handfull of conference games on ESPN or the Deuce. Oh, and three NCAA Tournament games on CBS (regional).

Inside the conference not as many, but as long as you're on TV, it doesn't really matter if it's a conference or non-conference opponent. And next year's A-10 final will be on CBS.

Hoosier Red
04-07-2009, 05:17 PM
Remember Winston Churchill's quote about democracy? Paraphrasing, he said it's the worst form of government except for all the other ones.

Well, the A-10 is not an ideal situation for Xavier but all the other reasonably possible situations are worse.

We're not joining the Big East. UC vetoed our involvement during expansion and money talks. Every one of the other five BCS leagues includes football. Xavier is not restarting a football program. C-USA and the MVC are lateral moves and involve association with schools that aren't realistically aligned with Xavier.

The only realistic option right now is a better A-10. So you either have to marshall the votes to kick schools out (good luck) or put together a breakout group. And I'm not sure there are enough similarly situated schools to do so right now. Dayton and SLU are natural partners, maybe you could lure Butler but it's not like Marquette and DePaul are itching to dump Louisville for the chance to play at Hinkle Fieldhouse every year.

And besides, a conference with Dayton, SLU, Butler and a few other Midwestern Catholic schools existed, it was called the MCC, and everyone said Xavier's conference sucked then, too.

So until there's some shakeup in the BCS leagues Xavier does not have anywhere to go.


Was Butler ever in the MCC at the same time as XU?
You make a good point, I had brought up a new breakout conference affilliation, but you could pretty much repaint Evansville in the late 80's as Butler now and get the same results.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 05:19 PM
This year we had Duke on CBS, LSU on ESPN, Cincinnati on ESPN, Memphis on ESPN (or the Deuce), plus a handfull of conference games on ESPN or the Deuce. Oh, and three NCAA Tournament games on CBS (regional). Inside the conference not as many, but as long as you're on TV, it doesn't really matter if it's a conference or non-conference opponent. And next year's A-10 final will be on CBS. And next year darn near every SEC game will be available on one of the espn outlets.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 05:25 PM
Was Butler ever in the MCC at the same time as XU?

Yep. From the inception of the league in 1979 until XU left in 1995.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 05:30 PM
My final thought... X is a great program for what it is. I really like what they do there. But to think they could hire a coach away from a high major conference for less money isn't particularly realistic. For an "up and comer" it may be a close call, but the past couple years have shown us that coaches prefer conference prestige and money. For better or worse.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 05:56 PM
[/I][/B]
My final thought... X is a great program for what it is. I really like what they do there. But to think they could hire a coach away from a high major conference for less money isn't particularly realistic. For an "up and comer" it may be a close call, but the past couple years have shown us that coaches prefer conference prestige and money. For better or worse.

Who said Xavier could hire a coach away from Vandy? They couldn't. But it's equally as likely that Vandy could hire a coach away from Xavier.

X is a great program for what it is. And no disrespect to Vandy because I like the 'Dores, but what it is has been quite a bit better than Vandy for awhile.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 06:36 PM
[/I][/B] Who said Xavier could hire a coach away from Vandy? They couldn't. But it's equally as likely that Vandy could hire a coach away from Xavier. X is a great program for what it is. And no disrespect to Vandy because I like the 'Dores, but what it is has been quite a bit better than Vandy for awhile. To your 1st question: wmr. X better in the tourney? Yes, but close. Vandy has been to 2 Sweet 16s since 04. Better overall? Also close. Stallings win % at Vandy is .687. Miller at X is .718. I would say conference differential easily explains that.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 07:08 PM
I wonder sometimes whether the BCS-program fans that deign to comment on "precious little Xavier" realize how sanctimonious and condescending they are. I just read this. I apologize if you were not directing this at me. But I think you were. I am an X fan. I even "deigned" myself to buy season tix a couple years. But I can't share your self pity. If you want to be a big time program get used to people poking holes in it. And I am also a Vandy fan and alum, so being sanctimonious and condescending comes natural. And I didn't have to look up deign. :)

WMR
04-07-2009, 07:56 PM
I just read this. I apologize if you were not directing this at me. But I think you were. I am an X fan. I even "deigned" myself to buy season tix a couple years. But I can't share your self pity. If you want to be a big time program get used to people poking holes in it. And I am also a Vandy fan and alum, so being sanctimonious and condescending comes natural. And I didn't have to look up deign. :)

:lol:

nmculbreth
04-07-2009, 07:59 PM
Remember Winston Churchill's quote about democracy? Paraphrasing, he said it's the worst form of government except for all the other ones.

Well, the A-10 is not an ideal situation for Xavier but all the other reasonably possible situations are worse.

We're not joining the Big East. UC vetoed our involvement during expansion and money talks. Every one of the other five BCS leagues includes football. Xavier is not restarting a football program. C-USA and the MVC are lateral moves and involve association with schools that aren't realistically aligned with Xavier.

The only realistic option right now is a better A-10. So you either have to marshall the votes to kick schools out (good luck) or put together a breakout group. And I'm not sure there are enough similarly situated schools to do so right now. Dayton and SLU are natural partners, maybe you could lure Butler but it's not like Marquette and DePaul are itching to dump Louisville for the chance to play at Hinkle Fieldhouse every year.

And besides, a conference with Dayton, SLU, Butler and a few other Midwestern Catholic schools existed, it was called the MCC, and everyone said Xavier's conference sucked then, too.

So until there's some shakeup in the BCS leagues Xavier does not have anywhere to go.

This is spot on.

Realistically speaking unless the non-football schools break away from the Big East to form a new conference, Xavier is stuck in the A-10.

Unfortunately that means that to a certain degree Xavier will be viewed by many coaches as a stepping stone to a "better" job at a school in one of the major conferences. As Xavier's program has improved the list of better jobs has certainly narrowed but in the current climate Xavier simply isn't a destination school.

That shouldn't diminish what Xavier's program has been able to achieve over the year. Over the past two decades every coach has built upon the foundation left by their predecessor and have left the program better than it was when they arrived and given Mike Bobinski's track record there is a very good chance that the next coach will do the same.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 08:38 PM
If you want to be a big time program get used to people poking holes in it.

EDIT: On second thought, that would have been a rude thing to say. Suffice it to say I'm extremely on edge right now. I spend a lot of money on this program between donations and season tickets, etc., and am just infuriated by Miller basically turning XU into a self-fulfilling prophecy yesterday.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 09:27 PM
EDIT: On second thought, that would have been a rude thing to say. Suffice it to say I'm extremely on edge right now. I spend a lot of money on this program between donations and season tickets, etc., and am just infuriated by Miller basically turning XU into a self-fulfilling prophecy yesterday. Yup. Until they can break through with a Final 4 and/or get a coach to stay 10+ years, it is what it is. And that ain't all bad. And trust me, I know bad, I went to Vandy during the Jan van Breda Kolff era.

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 09:35 PM
But to think they could hire a coach away from a high major conference for less money isn't particularly realistic.

We might find out: http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10145810&nav=0RaP

Maybe Horn is looking for a raise from USC. Maybe he's actually interested.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 10:25 PM
We might find out: http://www.wistv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10145810&nav=0RaP Maybe Horn is looking for a raise from USC. Maybe he's actually interested. That would be a nice hire. He is making 800k at USC. Wonder what it would take to get him.

Heath
04-07-2009, 11:01 PM
The A-14..errr..A-10 allegedly is now a part of the CBS College Network, which will now have an A-10 CBS game of the week starting next year. I would expect to see plenty of X games.

Xavier has the opportunity to be (and arguably already is) the Gonzaga of the East. The A-14, err...A-10 is a better conference than the WCC. Dayton, Temple, St. Joes, and Rhode Island this year give Xavier good competition. Playing the OOC games that X did this year, does give it a "Gonzaga" feel.

As a Dayton fan, I do not want Xavier to go down. I am biased, but I think the A-10 has their best 2 teams in UD and XU. Those schools are driving the league currently.

I think Chris Mack will do a fine job, but Willie Cunningham had a name I'd consider. Peter Gillen.

Heath
04-07-2009, 11:03 PM
That would be a nice hire. He is making 800k at USC. Wonder what it would take to get him.

not much. Too many people in USC think Steve Superior is the face of the athletic department. Too many people would rather have season tickets to a train car than watch roundball. It's sad though, USC Hoops is on the rise.

dsmith421
04-07-2009, 11:11 PM
I think Chris Mack will do a fine job, but Willie Cunningham had a name I'd consider. Peter Gillen.

Tell you what: we'll hire Gillen, you hire Jim O'Brien, we'll get Chip Hare, Negele Knight, Derek Strong, and Dwayne "Chief" Wilson, and it'll be just like old times again.

I don't see any reason why Xavier would consider Gillen at this point. He's been out of coaching for four years, his tenure at Virginia was pretty bad (one NCAA trip in seven years). I have no doubt Pete has put out feelers for the job, but I am positive Bobinski will politely decline.

Now, if Mack is the choice and Gillen is willing to take an assistant job as the grizzled vet/mentor...that's a different story.

dabvu2498
04-07-2009, 11:18 PM
I have an idea way out of left field... Craig Robinson. Midwest guy with some East Coast experience. Good guy, strong academic background, and it seems he can really coach. Plus think of the publicity!

Boston Red
04-07-2009, 11:25 PM
I had to google Craig Robinson. Apparently I'm out of the loop (I knew Oregon State's coach was Obama's BIL, I just didn't know his name). He's a Xavier kind of guy, but I doubt he'd have much interest.

Matt700wlw
04-08-2009, 01:57 AM
looks to me like a cash grab and that is about it.

I agree....not that I can blame him, though. In AZ, you're the show. In Cincy, despite the success, his better program was #2. If he can rebuild AZ, he'll have a better chance of a National Championship because the recruits will be that much better. X is stacked with talent, and Chris Mack would be a reason for that talent to stick around. Bobinski has given no indication that he will make the wrong decision on his replacement.

Matt700wlw
04-08-2009, 02:05 AM
If X wants to lose the 'mid major' label, they have to keep a coach from taking a 'better offer'. To their credit, they've survived and thrived anyway. Getting out of the A10 probably wouldn't hurt, either...

dsmith421
04-08-2009, 08:06 AM
UC fan superfecta in play:

* reference to "mid-major" label
* "#2 in the city" crack
* reference to A-10

All we need now is someone to cite the 1961 NCAA Tournament.

Reds4Life
04-08-2009, 09:59 AM
UC fan superfecta in play:

* reference to "mid-major" label
* "#2 in the city" crack
* reference to A-10

All we need now is someone to cite the 1961 NCAA Tournament.

Miller did call them "little ole' Xavier" in the press conference at AZ, didn't he?

;)

Boston Red
04-08-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm not that upset about Xavier being a "stepping stone", frankly. Sure, we'd rather keep Miller, but when people keep wanting your coach it's a good thing. Plus, given the relative lack of success of the coaches who have left (with the exception of one season for Matta at Ohio State), doesn't the question become: Is it the coaches who have made Xavier? Or is it Xavier that has made these coaches?

dsmith421
04-08-2009, 10:20 AM
Miller did call them "little ole' Xavier" in the press conference at AZ, didn't he?

Between that and the "national championship" comment at the XU press conference* Miller basically crapped on everything he accomplished here. I don't recall the fanbase being this uniformly pissed even when Matta slunk up I-71 with a jacket over his head.

* Incidentally, I absolutely cannot believe Xavier permitted Miller to hold a press conference at the Cintas Center about his decision to leave. Especially given the fact that he had spent all of five minutes with the players beforehand (who learned about his departure from ESPN).

WVRed
04-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Between that and the "national championship" comment at the XU press conference* Miller basically crapped on everything he accomplished here. I don't recall the fanbase being this uniformly pissed even when Matta slunk up I-71 with a jacket over his head.

* Incidentally, I absolutely cannot believe Xavier permitted Miller to hold a press conference at the Cintas Center about his decision to leave. Especially given the fact that he had spent all of five minutes with the players beforehand (who learned about his departure from ESPN).

Could be like Texas A&M with Billy Gillispie, who notified his players he was leaving via text message.

dsmith421
04-08-2009, 10:27 AM
Could be like Texas A&M with Billy Gillispie, who notified his players he was leaving via text message.

Didn't Petrino tape a letter to the wall in the Louisville locker room?

Boston Red
04-08-2009, 10:36 AM
Didn't Petrino tape a letter to the wall in the Louisville locker room?

That was in Atlanta.

BRM
04-08-2009, 10:37 AM
Could be like Texas A&M with Billy Gillispie, who notified his players he was leaving via text message.

Classy.

WVRed
04-08-2009, 10:38 AM
Classy.

Yeah, thats why I thought it was funny when he held the presser after he got fired and said to the UK players that his phone number would never change.

dabvu2498
04-08-2009, 10:58 AM
Yeah, thats why I thought it was funny when he held the presser after he got fired and said to the UK players that his phone number would never change. I bet Meeks has been blowing that number up.

bucksfan2
04-08-2009, 03:45 PM
Between that and the "national championship" comment at the XU press conference* Miller basically crapped on everything he accomplished here. I don't recall the fanbase being this uniformly pissed even when Matta slunk up I-71 with a jacket over his head.

* Incidentally, I absolutely cannot believe Xavier permitted Miller to hold a press conference at the Cintas Center about his decision to leave. Especially given the fact that he had spent all of five minutes with the players beforehand (who learned about his departure from ESPN).

Miller handled him self with class at XU. I have no problem with them allowing him to have a press conference at XU for his departure.

As for the players that really isn't Miller's fault. Someone leaked it to ESPN. I am sure there was a verbal agreement that Arizona wouldn't announce the hiring until after a certain time in which Miller would be able to tell his players. Its unfortunate but thats the way the aggressive media acts, right Alan Cutler.

dsmith421
04-08-2009, 04:58 PM
If X wants to lose the 'mid major' label, they have to keep a coach from taking a 'better offer'. To their credit, they've survived and thrived anyway. Getting out of the A10 probably wouldn't hurt, either...

Wrong. Xavier is a major program that happens to play in a mid-major conference. Just like Memphis and Gonzaga.

(And Cincinnati in the Great Midwest and C-USA, for what it's worth)

Boston Red
04-08-2009, 06:58 PM
The two greatest things to ever happen to Xavier were:

1) Joining the Atlantic 10; and
2) The hiring of Skip Prosser

The Atlantic 10 has been fabulous to Xavier over the 13 year run there. I refuse to run down what is actually a pretty damned good league most years. No, it's not the ACC, but you can win a national championship in the A-10. Those aspirations were silly in the MCC. Not so anymore.

(BTW, the #3 best thing to happen to Xavier was Skip Prosser (RIP) leaving; best for both parties at the time.)

guttle11
04-08-2009, 09:04 PM
Wrong. Xavier is a major program that happens to play in a mid-major conference. Just like Memphis and Gonzaga.

(And Cincinnati in the Great Midwest and C-USA, for what it's worth)

The A10 really isn't a mid-major league,and it's exponentially better than what Gonzaga and Memphis faced night in and night out the last few years. It's not "high major" either. Like the MWC, many programs in the A10 are distinctly above mid-major. Charlotte isn't mid-major, neither is SLU (a program that may just skyrocket over the next 5 years). Dayton and Xavier have better facilities and more basketball money than many supposed "majors", that are only major by association (Like a Providence, Oregon State, Northwestern). Temple and Saint Josephs are not mid-major.

Obviously, the A10 has a problem at the bottom. La Salle (credit where due: They're getting better) plays in the high school gym with 86 people in the stands. Fordham is a mess all around, and really doesn't try to compete.

There are also some legit mid-major like programs in the A10, too. St Bonaventure, Richmond, Duquesne, and I would even throw Rhode Island into this group.

As a Dayton fan, I love the A10. Dayton's won 50 games with RPIs around 30 both seasons. Playing programs like Xavier, Temple, SJU, and URI prepared Dayton very well to beat WVU in the NCAAs this year, and we've won 6 of our last 8 games against the "BCS" conferences. A program like Dayton can't do that without a strong league that pushes them to get better every game.

Gonzaga, with all the hype and top recruits, can't win big in March. That's because they play in the Mid-major league. Xavier gets it done in March in large part due to 13-14 strong tests they get from New Year's Day through early March.

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2009, 12:26 AM
Unfortunately that means that to a certain degree Xavier will be viewed by many coaches as a stepping stone to a "better" job at a school in one of the major conferences. As Xavier's program has improved the list of better jobs has certainly narrowed but in the current climate Xavier simply isn't a destination school.

That shouldn't diminish what Xavier's program has been able to achieve over the year. Over the past two decades every coach has built upon the foundation left by their predecessor and have left the program better than it was when they arrived and given Mike Bobinski's track record there is a very good chance that the next coach will do the same.

They're still, like virtually all non-major conference basketball programs, one bad coaching hire away from total irrelevance.

Xavier has been unbelievably fortunate with their coaching hires over the last 15 years -- I don't know that their fans properly appreciate the fact that they've managed to remain dud-free and keep momentum building.

That'll all crash to a grinding and screeching halt if Bobinski makes the wrong move here. Truth be told, I don't know that there is a right move to make -- any coach that walks in will have enormous expectations on their shoulders with the talent that is returning and the presumption that things would be better (no matter how well he does) if Miller would've stayed.

Personally, I don't see Xavier getting lucky for a 5th time in a row. I like Xavier a lot, I like the positive attention they bring to the city, but you can't keep dipping into the ranks of the unknowns and small potatoes coaches without getting burned by mediocrity eventually.

Boston Red
04-09-2009, 01:23 AM
Xavier makes coaches (and then gets them rich).

dsmith421
04-09-2009, 08:06 AM
Personally, I don't see Xavier getting lucky for a 5th time in a row.

This isn't roulette or blackjack, it's not like the cards are going to run out or the dice go sour. Mike Bobinski has been preparing for this moment since XU won the conference tournament in 2006 and Sean's name started popping up as a candidate. He's already vetted most of the guys that are on his list.

I hate this idea that XU has "gotten lucky" with coaching hires. The last time Xavier went outside the Gillen/Prosser family, they got Thad Matta, a great hire. Their other candidate? Fran McCaffery, who has taken Siena from 6-24 and turned them into a little powerhouse. I believe X would have continued its tradition of excellence with McCaffery.

It's not like X has drawn blackjack five straight times, either. Prosser was able to recruit talent but couldn't win in March, and when he left it was viewed as an amicable divorce. Matta inherited the best player in school history and couldn't get to the second weekend with him. Miller thrashed around his first two seasons, struggling mightily to find a winning formula and repeatedly losing close games to inferior competition.

I think casual observers look at XU and say "wow, their luck is due to run out." And there's an element of luck involved. But, like an experienced, grizzled handicapper, you can eliminate a lot of the caprices of luck with research and skill. That's what I think Bobinski brings to the table.

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2009, 01:14 PM
This isn't roulette or blackjack, it's not like the cards are going to run out or the dice go sour. Mike Bobinski has been preparing for this moment since XU won the conference tournament in 2006 and Sean's name started popping up as a candidate. He's already vetted most of the guys that are on his list..

Not blackjack -- maybe more like Texas Hold 'Em. You can reduce the amount of luck that is involved by playing your cards right, but there's still a large element of unknown that is involved. Nobody knows what a coach is going to be like until he's inked to a contract and is out there on the sidelines or in the homes of top recruits.

Even "top" coaches at minor programs (like the aforementioned Sienna) routinely struggle when they come up to face better competition and have more competition for their recruits. There's a certain element of chance that goes along with it all, and it stands to reason that the more times a school is forced to dip their toe into the hiring waters, the greater the chances become that they bomb out with a coaching hire.

You can vet all you want, but everyone that's coaching in D1 ball has been vetted by an AD at some point, and there's a lot of crummy coaches still drawing a paycheck.

Boston Red
04-09-2009, 04:07 PM
The State out of Columbia, SC says that Darrin Horn was in Cincinnati today talking to Xavier about the job.

BRM
04-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Horn denies talking to Xavier. He says he hasn't spoken to any other schools.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11613953

Boston Red
04-10-2009, 10:24 AM
Horn denies talking to Xavier. He says he hasn't spoken to any other schools.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11613953

That kind of quote is usually quickly followed by a press conference announcing that you've taken a new job.

BRM
04-10-2009, 10:25 AM
That kind of quote is usually quickly followed by a press conference announcing that you've taken a new job.

It's funny because I was thinking the same thing. He'll be gone within a week. :laugh:

dsmith421
04-10-2009, 12:06 PM
Bobinski wasn't joking when he said this job search would be played out behind closed doors. Pretty stark contrast to the three-ring circus at Arizona. It's frustrating from a fan's perspective, because no one's got concrete information.

Reds4Life
04-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Bobinski wasn't joking when he said this job search would be played out behind closed doors. Pretty stark contrast to the three-ring circus at Arizona. It's frustrating from a fan's perspective, because no one's got concrete information.

It's better for attracting coaches. There could be some who are interested in talking to X about the job, but don't want thier names plastered all over the media.

dsmith421
04-10-2009, 01:18 PM
It's better for attracting coaches. There could be some who are interested in talking to X about the job, but don't want thier names plastered all over the media.

Good point.

dsmith421
04-12-2009, 11:26 PM
My guess is that the new coach is announced ahead of this week's banquet...perhaps Tuesday. Very exciting/pensive time to be a Musketeer.

BRM
04-14-2009, 09:46 AM
Saw this on ESPN. The bottom of the article gives me the impression that Chris Mack will get the job.


CINCINNATI -- Xavier expects to have its next basketball coach within a couple days.

Athletic director Mike Bobinski said Monday evening that he has wrapped up interviews and will talk to school officials in the next couple days about who will succeed Sean Miller as head coach.

Miller left for Arizona last week. Bobinski has interviewed several candidates, including Miller's top assistant, Chris Mack.

"We're in the final stages of the process," Bobinski said, in a phone interview. "My intention is to meet within the next day or two with the president [Rev. Michael Graham] and others to discuss where we are."
Xavier's basketball banquet is Wednesday night. Bobinski would like to have the new coach in place beforehand.

"That's not a deal-breaker, but optimistically we'd like to have it done," he said.

Xavier went 27-8 last season and reached the round of 16 in the NCAA tournament before losing to Pittsburgh. The Musketeers will lose only two players from that team to graduation.

The Musketeers have been to the round of eight twice in the last six years. They have won three straight Atlantic-10 regular season titles, growing in national prominence while replacing coaches who leave for bigger schools.

Xavier has enjoyed a stretch of consistent growth under coaches Pete Gillen, Skip Prosser, Thad Matta and Miller, who was promoted when Matta moved on to Ohio State.

Mack has no head coaching experience but close ties to the program. He played for Xavier and was a two-time captain before graduating in 1992. He was director of basketball operations at the Jesuit school from 1999 to 2001 and spent three seasons as an assistant to Prosser at Wake Forest.

Mack returned to Xavier in 2004 and was an assistant for all of Miller's five seasons as head coach.

Reds4Life
04-14-2009, 10:01 AM
Would be a poor choice, there are better qualified candidates out there who would take the job, IMO.

dsmith421
04-14-2009, 10:19 AM
Would be a poor choice, there are better qualified candidates out there who would take the job, IMO.

I think Bobinski deserves the benefit of the doubt on this, he's clearly taken his time in vetting various candidates and if he feels Mack is the guy, I'm on board.

Plus we have no idea who was interested, whether the interest was mutual, and whether other candidates were willing to take the job. The only 'slam dunk' parallel hire was Brad Stevens and it's far from clear whether he would leave Butler.

reds1869
04-14-2009, 11:10 AM
Would be a poor choice, there are better qualified candidates out there who would take the job, IMO.

Quite the contrary, it would be a very wise choice. None of the current players will transfer and it is quite possible that the incoming recruits who have either wavered or decommited would still come to X. With an outside hire of anyone but a big name, the recruits disappear and likely so does Kenny Frease.

Boston Red
04-14-2009, 11:20 AM
I preferred an outside candidate to Mack, but I have complete faith in Bobinski. If he did not see a better option, then I'm on board.

WMR
04-14-2009, 11:22 AM
Question for X fans: Do you care about college football, and, if so, do you have a team that you root for? Is your fandom for that team on the same level as your love for X hoops?

Boston Red
04-14-2009, 11:33 AM
Question for X fans: Do you care about college football, and, if so, do you have a team that you root for? Is your fandom for that team on the same level as your love for X hoops?

You won't like my answer, but I'm a Louisville fan. Grew up during the Schnellenberger era loving Louisville football more than Louisville basketball because we always went to the football games, and they generally played an exciting style against a pretty competitive schedule (before independent football got ruined by the formation of the Big East and the movement of Penn State to the Big Ten). The '91 Fiesta Bowl is probably my greatest sports memory.

After going to Xavier, and given the switch from Crum to Pitino, I sort of lost interest in Louisville basketball, but I'm still a big Louisville football fan.

WMR
04-14-2009, 11:35 AM
You won't like my answer, but I'm a Louisville fan. Grew up during the Schnellenberger era loving Louisville football more than Louisville basketball because we always went to the football games, and they generally played an exciting style against a pretty competitive schedule (before independent football got ruined by the formation of the Big East and the movement of Penn State to the Big Ten). The '91 Fiesta Bowl is probably my greatest sports memory.

After going to Xavier, and given the switch from Crum to Pitino, I sort of lost interest in Louisville basketball, but I'm still a big Louisville football fan.

heck no, I LOVE that answer. Wish we could play Louisville twice a year nowadays. :D

LONG LIVE KRAGTHORPE!!! :D

dsmith421
04-14-2009, 11:39 AM
Question for X fans: Do you care about college football, and, if so, do you have a team that you root for? Is your fandom for that team on the same level as your love for X hoops?

I root for Ohio State but my interest goes no further than (a) watching the games, (b) having a working knowledge of their starting personnel, and (c) going to the Horseshoe every few years.

Boston Red
04-14-2009, 11:40 AM
Yes, I certainly pine for the days of Bobby Petrino naming the score in the series (and basically every other series). Steve Kragthorpe is the Jerry DiGregorio of college football coaches.

WMR
04-14-2009, 11:42 AM
Yes, I certainly pine for the days of Bobby Petrino naming the score in the series (and basically every other series). Steve Kragthorpe is the Jerry DiGregorio of college football coaches.

We got some revenge for you last year. :D

Loved, loved, LOVED beating his Razorbacks last season.

reds1869
04-14-2009, 12:24 PM
Question for X fans: Do you care about college football, and, if so, do you have a team that you root for? Is your fandom for that team on the same level as your love for X hoops?

I got my B.A. at Marshall and my Master's at XU. My passion for Marshall football runs deep, and even though we've been terrible for the past few years I still cheer just as much as I always have. My two schools also have an interesting historical tie: Xavier was the first school the Young Thundering Herd beat after the plane crash.

I will admit that if the two ever play in hoops again, I'll be pulling for the Muskies. If Xavier fields a D1 football team again someday and they match up, I'll pull for the Herd. I can't really explain why I feel that way, but it is the same way my dad is with his two colleges (Marshall hoops and WVU football).

WVRed
04-14-2009, 12:41 PM
I got my B.A. at Marshall and my Master's at XU. My passion for Marshall football runs deep, and even though we've been terrible for the past few years I still cheer just as much as I always have. My two schools also have an interesting historical tie: Xavier was the first school the Young Thundering Herd beat after the plane crash.

I will admit that if the two ever play in hoops again, I'll be pulling for the Muskies. If Xavier fields a D1 football team again someday and they match up, I'll pull for the Herd. I can't really explain why I feel that way, but it is the same way my dad is with his two colleges (Marshall hoops and WVU football).

I'm actually the opposite. I pull for UK first, but if it came down to WVU or Marshall, I would pull for Marshall every time.

BRM
04-14-2009, 12:57 PM
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Chris Mack is the guy. The report says they are just waiting on Xavier's president to sign off on the hire.

Boss-Hog
04-14-2009, 01:35 PM
Quite the contrary, it would be a very wise choice. None of the current players will transfer and it is quite possible that the incoming recruits who have either wavered or decommited would still come to X. With an outside hire of anyone but a big name, the recruits disappear and likely so does Kenny Frease.
Take it for what it's worth, but I've heard from someone with connections that 1). Mack will be the next coach and 2). Holloway will be transferring.

BRM
04-14-2009, 01:37 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but I've heard from someone with connections that 1). Mack will be the next coach and 2). Holloway will be transferring.

That would be a very interesting development. Any clue where he would want to go? Besides UK of course...because everyone wants to play for Calipari.

Boss-Hog
04-14-2009, 01:37 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but I've heard from someone with connections that 1). Mack will be the next coach and 2). Holloway will be transferring.
Whoops, I posted the above before reading BRM's post that hiring Mack a done deal - I promise!. :)

Boss-Hog
04-14-2009, 01:37 PM
That would be a very interesting development. Any clue where he would want to go?
No clue, but given the number of guards they have, it wouldn't surprise me.

dsmith421
04-14-2009, 01:48 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but I've heard from someone with connections that 1). Mack will be the next coach and 2). Holloway will be transferring.

I think you've got to take that with a grain of salt at this stage. A lot of the XU kids were devastated by Miller's departure, and for Holloway it's a double whammy because of his close relationship with Book Richardson. I would be surprised if anyone made any definite calls one way or the other before Mack's entire staff is set and he's had a chance to meet with the guys individually.

flyer85
04-14-2009, 05:15 PM
The most hated player in UD Arena history to become the next head coach(although it was for what he did while at Evansville). That ought to up the intensity even more.

Boston Red
04-14-2009, 05:39 PM
The most hated player in UD Arena history to become the next head coach(although it was for what he did while at Evansville). That ought to up the intensity even more.

Dayton fans should actually hate Jim Crews, not Mack.

flyer85
04-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Dayton fans should actually hate Jim Crews, not Mack.everyone knew Crews told him to do it but after nearly starting a fight the first time it was a low class unsportsmanlike tactic and Mack gets every bit as much blame as Crews for doing it a 2nd time. I have never seen a player do that in any other basketball game I have ever watched in person or on TV.

Scrap Irony
04-15-2009, 11:02 AM
If I were running the NCAA universe, I'd move Western Kentucky, Memphis, Dayton, and Xavier to one conference, making it a true power conference able to compete with the likes of the SEC, the ACC, and the Big Ten for Final Fours and championships.

Hoosier Red
04-15-2009, 11:10 AM
everyone knew Crews told him to do it but after nearly starting a fight the first time it was a low class unsportsmanlike tactic and Mack gets every bit as much blame as Crews for doing it a 2nd time. I have never seen a player do that in any other basketball game I have ever watched in person or on TV.


Remind me what happened?

flyer85
04-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Remind me what happened?
Flyers were a pressing team that year and they had a 7 foot center(Wes Coffee) pressuring the ball after made baskets. When the 5 second count was almost done Mack threw a one handed overhand pass as hard as he could right into the face of Wes Coffee. It almost started a fight, he was warned(I assume) because the only thing that prevented a riot when he did it a 2nd time was the officials hit him with an immediate "T" and got between the players. After the game the players did not shake hands and Knight was yelling at the Evansville players as they left the floor.

dsmith421
04-15-2009, 11:39 AM
My recollection is that it was a different player the first time, not that it absolves Mack of responsibility.

I did some things when I was 19 that were pretty low class, too.

Boston Red
04-15-2009, 11:41 AM
If Dayton hires Simon Ogunlesi as a coach, this rivalry is ON!

dabvu2498
04-15-2009, 11:48 AM
At least getting hit in the face didn't hurt Wes Coffee's appearance.

reds1869
04-15-2009, 12:40 PM
If I were running the NCAA universe, I'd move Western Kentucky, Memphis, Dayton, and Xavier to one conference, making it a true power conference able to compete with the likes of the SEC, the ACC, and the Big Ten for Final Fours and championships.

I'd also throw Butler and Creighton into the mix. Round it out with some upper-tier teams from other midwestern leagues and you'd have a real power conference (I also suspect Notre Dame, Depaul and Marquette could be tempted if the Big East splits again).

Scrap Irony
04-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Call it the Midwest Conference.

Teams:
Memphis
Dayton
Xavier
Western Kentucky
Creighton
Butler
Loyola of Chicago
Southern Illinois
Morehead St.
Murray St.

All decent basketball schools with solid traditions that could use a stronger conference to compete on a national scale year in and year out. None of them have particularly strong football teams, so that may mean a couple football schools (Marshall? Middle Tennessee St.?) make the move as well.

This would also be a pretty solid baseball conference, too, drawing players from Illinois through Tennessee.

Hoosier Red
04-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Flyers were a pressing team that year and they had a 7 foot center(Wes Coffee) pressuring the ball after made baskets. When the 5 second count was almost done Mack threw a one handed overhand pass as hard as he could right into the face of Wes Coffee. It almost started a fight, he was warned(I assume) because the only thing that prevented a riot when he did it a 2nd time was the officials hit him with an immediate "T" and got between the players. After the game the players did not shake hands and Knight was yelling at the Evansville players as they left the floor.

Michael Lewis(the Point Guard, not the author) did that to Jakob Jakes from Iowa a few years back. I was at IU and loved it. But Jakes had done some things to get under the Hoosiers skin for like three years so he clearly deserved it. ;)

Boston Red
04-15-2009, 01:19 PM
Morehead? Not a decent basketball school. Loyola, either. None of the other names disturb me, though.

Hoosier Red
04-15-2009, 01:21 PM
Loyola does have a national championship to its credit.

I had suggested VMI before as I think they're up and coming but that was shot down.

Somebody has to round out the bottom of the conference.

Boston Red
04-15-2009, 01:24 PM
Loyola does have a national championship to its credit.


So does LaSalle in Xavier's current league.

Austin Peay is a better choice than Morehead (not that I'm suggesting that is a good choice). I'd rather have Valpo than Loyola (not that I'd want them either).

BTW, it's always fun conjecture, but Xavier made a concerted effort to join the A-10 because of the East Coast presence it gave them. Xavier will not join any Midwestern league unless they absolutely have no other choice.

reds1869
04-15-2009, 03:01 PM
So does LaSalle in Xavier's current league.

Austin Peay is a better choice than Morehead (not that I'm suggesting that is a good choice). I'd rather have Valpo than Loyola (not that I'd want them either).

BTW, it's always fun conjecture, but Xavier made a concerted effort to join the A-10 because of the East Coast presence it gave them. Xavier will not join any Midwestern league unless they absolutely have no other choice.

If they were in a league with the teams mentioned, they wouldn't need the A-10's east coast presence. The national exposure the league would receive would more than make up for lost exposure in the northeast, and they could play OOC games against former A-10 foes.

Boston Red
04-15-2009, 03:07 PM
I'm not so sure. If you don't get Memphis (and you wouldn't because of, for one thing, football), it doesn't look much different than the old MCC.

dsmith421
04-15-2009, 03:11 PM
If they were in a league with the teams mentioned, they wouldn't need the A-10's east coast presence.

You don't get it. It's not primarily about basketball. Fr. Hoff's vision for the university was to align the school with the East Coast rather than the Midwest. That includes student recruitment efforts, donor development, alumni development, etc. Joining the A-10 was only one segment of that vision.

Seriously, just stop with these ridiculous conference scenarios. Xavier is not joining a league with Austin Peay or VMI or Western Kentucky (as much as respect their program), and it's certainly not going back to the Loyola-Detroit Mercy days.

The A-10 is the best place for XU for the time being.

WMR
04-15-2009, 03:19 PM
You don't get it. It's not primarily about basketball. Fr. Hoff's vision for the university was to align the school with the East Coast rather than the Midwest. That includes student recruitment efforts, donor development, alumni development, etc. Joining the A-10 was only one segment of that vision.

Seriously, just stop with these ridiculous conference scenarios. Xavier is not joining a league with Austin Peay or VMI or Western Kentucky (as much as respect their program), and it's certainly not going back to the Loyola-Detroit Mercy days.

The A-10 is the best place for XU for the time being.

I know it isn't really feasible, but would you like to see X in the Big East a la Notre Dame (just bball ... understood it's slightly different as X has no football team whereas ND just remains independent).

Boston Red
04-15-2009, 03:24 PM
I know it isn't really feasible, but would you like to see X in the Big East a la Notre Dame (just bball ... understood it's slightly different as X has no football team whereas ND just remains independent).

Of course. The A-10 is just the Big East Lite, really. Line em up:

Syracuse - St. Bonny
St. John's - Fordham
UConn - UMass
Providence - URI
Georgetown - GW
Cincinnati - Xavier
DePaul - Dayton
Pitt/WV - Duquesne
Villanova - LaSalle/St. Joes/Temple

dabvu2498
04-15-2009, 03:48 PM
I know it isn't really feasible, but would you like to see X in the Big East a la Notre Dame (just bball ... understood it's slightly different as X has no football team whereas ND just remains independent). Having fb is not a requirement to be in the Big East. Marquette, DePaul, St. J's and Seton Hall don't. And several others are FCS schools. And ND is a member of the BE in everything but fb. Not just hoops.

dsmith421
04-15-2009, 04:17 PM
I know it isn't really feasible, but would you like to see X in the Big East a la Notre Dame (just bball ... understood it's slightly different as X has no football team whereas ND just remains independent).

Yes, with no reservations. But it will never happen as long as UC is in the conference.

Hoosier Red
04-15-2009, 07:03 PM
If they were in a league with the teams mentioned, they wouldn't need the A-10's east coast presence. The national exposure the league would receive would more than make up for lost exposure in the northeast, and they could play OOC games against former A-10 foes.

How often was UC on ESPN in the old C-USA days? With Marquette, Memphis, Louisville?

Xavier can get on ESPN by playing Butler, Memphis, L-Ville, or anyone else in pre-season.

reds1869
04-15-2009, 07:33 PM
You don't get it. It's not primarily about basketball. Fr. Hoff's vision for the university was to align the school with the East Coast rather than the Midwest. That includes student recruitment efforts, donor development, alumni development, etc. Joining the A-10 was only one segment of that vision.

Seriously, just stop with these ridiculous conference scenarios. Xavier is not joining a league with Austin Peay or VMI or Western Kentucky (as much as respect their program), and it's certainly not going back to the Loyola-Detroit Mercy days.

The A-10 is the best place for XU for the time being.

I get that perfectly well. But we're talking basketball and we're not being at all realistic, so why should we stop with the conference scenarios? And we are doing all this on an internet message board, ground zero for pie in the sky ideas.

dsmith421
04-16-2009, 08:58 AM
I get that perfectly well. But we're talking basketball and we're not being at all realistic, so why should we stop with the conference scenarios? And we are doing all this on an internet message board, ground zero for pie in the sky ideas.

Xavier in a conference with Austin Peay and VMI sounds more like a nightmare scenario to me.

reds1869
04-16-2009, 01:52 PM
Xavier in a conference with Austin Peay and VMI sounds more like a nightmare scenario to me.

I agree, and I was not suggesting such an affiliation.

Boston Red
04-16-2009, 02:02 PM
Xavier in a conference with Austin Peay and VMI sounds more like a nightmare scenario to me.

Me, too, though if you traded LaSalle and Fordham for Austin Peay and VMI it would essentially be a wash.