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View Full Version : How many games can this Reds team win with this offense?



fewfirstchoice
04-06-2009, 05:59 PM
I know its only one game but I believe this is how the games are going to play out all year. The Reds pitching will be good all season but the offense will be terrible. THye will struggle to score 3 runs a game. I see them scoring 1 run in a game more than any other team in MLB. There offense is just awful no way they win 70 games with it. Heres to a long season and not making the post season again.

redsfanmia
04-06-2009, 06:02 PM
17

Kingspoint
04-06-2009, 06:14 PM
87.

Nothing's changed since last week, except that Gonzo and Hairston's getting healthier.


When you play the Mets this year, you only get 7 innings to score. Putz and Rodriguez will make sure of that. We only got the 1 run and we missed on several opportunities. However, Phillips did get the run in during the man on 3rd and less than 2 outs situation.

berryluther
04-06-2009, 06:15 PM
61 is my prediction

fewfirstchoice
04-06-2009, 06:21 PM
No way they even get lose to 87 with there offense. Id say more like 67 if there lucky.

NeilHamburger
04-06-2009, 06:21 PM
2, yes I'm completely serious here. Hear me out, I know this sounds like hyperbole but I fully believe this will be the worst offense in the history of organized sports and they will go 2-159 (with one rainout not made up). I know it's only one game, but I can't see how I could be wrong.

DaytonFlyer
04-06-2009, 07:26 PM
Let's not torpedo the season just yet. They did face Santana and what is widely considered the best back part of the bullpen in the National League today.

xavr1
04-06-2009, 07:29 PM
Guys, lets cool it with the doomsday prophecies. They played the best pitcher in baseball today! Plus, the weather sucked. Give it at least a week.

highheat11
04-06-2009, 07:30 PM
I say 84, with this pitching there will be a lot of chances to win while only scoring two or three runs.

Root Down
04-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Guys, lets cool it with the doomsday prophecies. They played the best pitcher in baseball today! Plus, the weather sucked. Give it at least a week.

I for one was actually kind of enthused by what I saw today. Low scoring was expected, but this team was one solid hit away from taking the W against "the best pitcher in baseball". We're going to see a lot of this 2-1 stuff and I think we'll be on the winning end of a lot of them.

It's kind of hard to take one loss and say we'll get 17 wins all season from it. As many of the real analysts are saying, this team is right on the cusp of something great.

UPRedsFan
04-06-2009, 07:44 PM
Santana, Putz and Rodriguez in 37 degree weather? Tough for anyone to score more than one run.

stevekun
04-06-2009, 07:46 PM
If you guys think we can only win 60 with that offense you saw today....you must also say that the Mets will win about 70 right? They did only score 2 runs.

xavr1
04-06-2009, 07:57 PM
If you guys think we can only win 60 with that offense you saw today....you must also say that the Mets will win about 70 right? They did only score 2 runs.

Great point, and no one would argue that the Mets need offense with some of those bats they have. The conditions today made this game a tough one.

improbus
04-06-2009, 08:05 PM
So, we can now accurately say that this offense will stink. Let's see: 35 degrees, check, Johann Santana (the best pitcher in baseball), check, JJ Putz, check, Francisco Rodriguez, check, 1st game of the season, check. Calm down. Not too many offenses would have been very successful today.

goreds2
04-06-2009, 09:45 PM
Wait until we face number 3 through 5 starters then evaluate after 6 weeks.

( :rolleyes: )

fewfirstchoice
04-07-2009, 12:08 AM
If you guys think we can only win 60 with that offense you saw today....you must also say that the Mets will win about 70 right? They did only score 2 runs.


Sure they only scored 2 runs but they also left 13 (I think) runners on base. The Reds left what 3 on. Itsa matter of having the offense to get runners on. The Mets have that offense and the Reds dont.

shredda2000
04-07-2009, 01:32 AM
"There are 162 games in major league baseball season. Every team's going to win 54 games, every team's going to lose 54, it's what you do with the other 54 games that counts." - Tommy Lasorda

DTCromer
04-07-2009, 09:06 AM
After a rather large sample size of 1 game vs Johan Santana, Putz, and Rodriguez, I'd say our fan base has a right to complain about our offense.

Old NDN
04-07-2009, 10:59 AM
I don't know about wins, but I could see a couple of the Reds starters losing 20 games with this pitiful offense. With the late attempt to sign Sheffield, I think Walt and Dusty are pretty concerned, also.

improbus
04-07-2009, 11:22 AM
The Reds biggest problem this season is that the NL Central is pretty strong. If we were in the NL West, I would LOVE our chances at winning the division and our strategy would have been different. But, the Cubs are great, the Cards are improved (especially if Carpenter is back), the Brewers will still be tough, and Houston will always be annoying. I don't think that this team w/ Dunn would have won or competed for the division this year. Let's give them some time. I am really excited to see Bruce and Votto in year two.

Ghosts of 1990
04-07-2009, 11:34 AM
I was frustrated at yesterdays game and I wanted to come back and make a thread like this; but I decided against it. I'm gonna wait til I see this offense in 15 full MLB regular season games before making any type of conclusion.

I think they'll get to Maine on wednesday night.

schmidty622
04-07-2009, 12:35 PM
I was frustrated at yesterdays game and I wanted to come back and make a thread like this; but I decided against it. I'm gonna wait til I see this offense in 15 full MLB regular season games before making any type of conclusion.

I think they'll get to Maine on wednesday night.

I think having Dickerson over McDonald will be a huge plus. Hopefully they play him in Center and Nix in left. Give them some more bats from the left side against the righty. Especially since Putz and K-Rod are both righties as well, if the game comes down to facing those guys.

bgwilly31
04-07-2009, 01:23 PM
there was a thread already made for this.

Did it take you watching the first game to realize this team needed hitters>?

Not me.

mivers176
04-07-2009, 01:29 PM
Let's not torpedo the season just yet. They did face Santana and what is widely considered the best back part of the bullpen in the National League today.
this is exactly what i'm thinking reading everyone's negative messages. c'mon, Santana, then Putz then K Rod - these guys can make just about anyone's offense look anemic like the Reds yesterday. that on top of the great weather conditions. although sure the offense will be a question mark for now, i wouldnt put too much emphasis on yesterday's game for sure. Gonzalez, Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Hernandez, Dickerson(depending on pt), Encarnacion will approach 20-30 homers if they stay healthy - start naming other teams that have 6-7 guys that could put those numbers up.

OesterPoster
04-07-2009, 01:35 PM
How many lefties of the Santana quality will the Reds face this year? None, if any. They might only face Santana one more time. Also, you need to take a look around the league at other teams. The A's offense looked absolutely putrid last night against the Angels. Saunders is no Santana either, plus it was beautiful weather, so the excuses should be minimal.

I didn't expect this offense to set any records this year, but I'm willing to withhold judgment until we've got 20 games in. I think the Reds will be making hay on the 2nd-5th starters that other teams throw out there.

bgwilly31
04-07-2009, 01:38 PM
How many lefties of the Santana quality will the Reds face this year? None, if any. They might only face Santana one more time. Also, you need to take a look around the league at other teams. The A's offense looked absolutely putrid last night against the Angels. Saunders is no Santana either, plus it was beautiful weather, so the excuses should be minimal.

I didn't expect this offense to set any records this year, but I'm willing to withhold judgment until we've got 20 games in. I think the Reds will be making hay on the 2nd-5th starters that other teams throw out there.

Im not judging from the first game.

Im judging from the fact that the reds avg'd less than 3 runs per game throughout spring training.

Eric_the_Red
04-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Im not judging from the first game.

Im judging from the fact that the reds avg'd less than 3 runs per game throughout spring training.


So you are judging from the first game and other meaningless games. Got it.

CesarGeronimo
04-07-2009, 01:53 PM
Im not judging from the first game.

Im judging from the fact that the reds avg'd less than 3 runs per game throughout spring training.

I think if you look at the history of the players in the Reds' lineup and watch them play, it's not hard to figure out that this team doesn't have enough really good hitters. Spring training and what we saw yesterday may not tell you that much, but they certainly don't contradict this opinion.

bgwilly31
04-07-2009, 02:02 PM
So you are judging from the first game and other meaningless games. Got it.

Ok smart guy. What else do we have to judge from.

Maybe we should all just sit here in silence for the next two weeks and withold judgement. Oh joy. :thumbup:

Eric_the_Red
04-07-2009, 02:03 PM
Yes, but for many of the team's hitters I don't think you can automatically look at the past to predict future performance. The best offensive days of guys like Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, EE, and Taveras are still to come, IMO. They have room to grow and are still relatively young/inexperienced.

Phillips can hit 30 hr and AGon and Hernandez could both hit 15-20, possibly more.

I'm just saying that that ST games are too "different" to judge much from. Pitchers are trying new things, players are learning new positions, teams often play minor leaguers to get a look at them....plus the players are coming from an off-season of not hitting 90+ mph pitches. You cannot simply take those stats and say "here is what they will do during the regular season".

Could this offense go down as one of the worst in organization history? Sure. Could the youngsters also make a lot of progress from last year and create a potent offense? Maybe.

Remember 1999? I don't think in hindsight you could look at that team as an offensive powerhouse, yet because of a few career years the team was in contention.

Caveman Techie
04-07-2009, 02:11 PM
Sure they only scored 2 runs but they also left 13 (I think) runners on base. The Reds left what 3 on. Itsa matter of having the offense to get runners on. The Mets have that offense and the Reds dont.

The reds had 6 runners LOB, the Mets had 12. So yes, Johann Santana was good. Who would of thunk it. :)

bgwilly31
04-07-2009, 02:15 PM
Yes, but for many of the team's hitters I don't think you can automatically look at the past to predict future performance. The best offensive days of guys like Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, EE, and Taveras are still to come, IMO. They have room to grow and are still relatively young/inexperienced.

Phillips can hit 30 hr and AGon and Hernandez could both hit 15-20, possibly more.

I'm just saying that that ST games are too "different" to judge much from. Pitchers are trying new things, players are learning new positions, teams often play minor leaguers to get a look at them....plus the players are coming from an off-season of not hitting 90+ mph pitches. You cannot simply take those stats and say "here is what they will do during the regular season".

Could this offense go down as one of the worst in organization history? Sure. Could the youngsters also make a lot of progress from last year and create a potent offense? Maybe.

Remember 1999? I don't think in hindsight you could look at that team as an offensive powerhouse, yet because of a few career years the team was in contention.

I know ST is different. I know its considered meaningless among many. But it still says something.

And i agree anything is possible. And this team does have lots of young talent. Im hoping for the best just like all of you.

DannyB
04-07-2009, 06:46 PM
So far,none.

thorn
04-07-2009, 07:12 PM
Well, the offense won't win many games this year, but the great offenses we had in the past didn't win many either. So maybe the better question would be, how many games will the pitching win us this year?

86

bgwilly31
04-07-2009, 07:23 PM
The couple things ive heard about arroyo arent sounding good.

First pushing back his opening day. And then i read he got slammed last week VS. AA team....

Heres the other question to all of us fans.

What happens if this teams pitching falls a bit short of expectations.

thorn
04-07-2009, 07:30 PM
If that happens, I think they are in trouble, but there will be a lot of pieces to trade away and continue to build for the next year.

gedred69
04-07-2009, 08:25 PM
Well, the offense won't win many games this year, but the great offenses we had in the past didn't win many either. So maybe the better question would be, how many games will the pitching win us this year?

86

Oh so well put. Seems a lot of posts don't remember already that the big Dunn/Griffey offense never broke .500. Reds gave up Dunn to pick up a guy who by all early indications should be a great #5, (if not higher). Yes, I am concerned about the lack of runs,---I saw alot of ST to give me worry. But I do know BP will be BP, Votto and Bruce will continue to develop. A successful team needs at least 4-5 MLB hitters. So,,,, EE and Dickerson become important. I'll wait until 6/1 to pass judgement. (Unless they are single digit in the W column).

improbus
04-08-2009, 09:50 AM
It scares me to say this, but in my eyes the entire season rests on EE. If he turns into the players we thought he could be offensively and cuts down on the errors, the Reds will be dangerous. If he is the clueless talent we've seen in the past, then we will be the same old Reds.