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GOYA
04-09-2009, 09:24 PM
Not good.

IP - 5.1
H - 9
R - 9
ER - 8
BB - 1
K - 5
HR - 3
ERA - 13.50

He also hurt himself with a throwing error.

What happened to spring training?

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2009, 09:30 PM
It's one start, not really a big deal, IMO. He gave up a few groundball singles and made a couple errors which led to runs. The good news is he posted a solid 1 BB/5 K ratio. That's what I'm looking at. Those who watched him said his stuff was good.

dougdirt
04-09-2009, 09:33 PM
16 MPH winds in Louisville probably didn't help much either.

GIDP
04-09-2009, 09:36 PM
It's one start, not really a big deal. He gave up a few groundball singles and made a couple errors which led to runs. The good news is he posted a solid 1 BB/5 K ratio. That's what I'm looking at. Those who watched him said his stuff was good. He just had a bad night, it happens.

The curve was being controlled and was snapping pretty decently.

GOYA
04-09-2009, 09:45 PM
16 MPH winds in Louisville probably didn't help much either.


I'm out of town and can't vouch for the validity of this but the gameday on MiLB.com shows a slight wind blowing in. Taking into account that Rosales and Bolivar both hit HRs as well, my money would be on the gameday being wrong.

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2009, 02:14 AM
Bailey blasted as Bats lose opener
Yields three two-run homers in 12-4 loss

By Michael Grant • mgrant@courier-journal.com • April 9, 2009

Mother Nature threatened, but the light rain didn't last long and never interrupted the baseball game.

The Columbus Clippers threatened, and their impact had a more lasting effect as they dealt the Louisville Bats a season-opening 12-4 loss before 9,037 fans last night at Louisville Slugger Field.

The game opened with a steady drizzle that was gone by the third inning. That was as good as it got for the home team as Columbus pounded out 14 hits and the Bats made three errors.

"You always like to win, especially opening day," Louisville manager Rick Sweet said. "(Hitting coach Smokey Garrett) said we lost opening day last year. I couldn't remember. I had no idea. It's over and done with. I'm thinking about tomorrow already."

Bats starter Homer Bailey threw well for the Cincinnati Reds during spring training, posting a 2.61 ERA before being sent to Louisville.

Last night the right-hander was under persistent duress, allowing three of Columbus' four two-run home runs. Jordan Brown's 395-foot blast that made it 9-4 was Bailey's final batter of the evening.

Bailey's line: 51/3 innings, nine hits, nine runs — eight earned — one walk and five strikeouts.

It was his worst Triple-A start ever.

"I think a lot of it was not being able to locate any of my pitches outside of my fastball," he said. "I kept throwing sliders and curveballs in the dirt, then getting behind a few hitters. I tried to make a perfect pitch instead of a good pitch."

He retired the side in the first inning but never found a comfortable groove.

"I thought he had good stuff," Sweet said. "But he made mistakes, and usually it was with his breaking ball.... He gave up three home runs. That's what killed him. With every pitcher, it's about location. It doesn't matter how hard you throw if you can't locate."

Matt LaPorta led off the second with a double, and Michael Aubrey followed with a home run.

Louisville tied the score at 2 in the bottom half, but LaPorta and Aubrey returned to haunt Bailey in the fourth. LaPorta again led off with a double, then advanced to third on a wild pitch. He scored on Aubrey's sacrifice fly.

Louisville tied it again in the bottom half, but it didn't stay deadlocked for long as the Clippers struck for four runs in the fifth.

Michael Brantley drove in the first two runs with a single, and Luis Valbuena knocked in the final two with a homer. The fans groaned in frustration as the lead mushroomed to 7-3.

The Bats seemed poised to give the crowd something to cheer about in the bottom half. Luis Bolivar, the No.9 hitter, led off with a home run, and Louisville had two runners on with none out after Norris Hopper doubled and Drew Stubbs walked. But the rally suffered a blow when Chris Valaika hit into a double play. Kevin Barker came up with Norris at third but grounded out.

Then Bailey was chased during the game-breaking sixth.

"It can only get better," he said. "That was pretty bad."

Louisville got two runs in the second on Jonny Gomes' RBI double and Danny Dorn's sacrifice fly.

Adam Rosales hit a solo homer in the fourth, and Bolivar connected in the fifth.

"We have a young team," Barker said. "They have to get their feet wet. We're going to have some games where we get our butts kicked."

Michael Grant can be reached at (502) 582-4069.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090409/SPORTS07/90410002/1036

reds44
04-10-2009, 04:08 AM
I'll go ahead and bold the other important part.


"I thought he had good stuff," Sweet said. "But he made mistakes, and usually it was with his breaking ball.... He gave up three home runs. That's what killed him. With every pitcher, it's about location. It doesn't matter how hard you throw if you can't locate."

It's one start, but it sounds like it was the same Homer. Spring Training means nothing, and one start doesn't mean very much. Definatley not encouraging though.

GIDP
04-10-2009, 07:58 AM
Well to be fair at least hes missing low in the zone instead of hanging em.

schmidty622
04-10-2009, 08:05 AM
Shoulda got Dye...

MikeS21
04-10-2009, 08:41 AM
"Should've ... Could've ... Would've ..." I'm tired of the excuses. This poor outing by Bailey is probably been the most disappointing aspect of the start of the season for me - even more disappointing than the big club's start.

If I honestly felt this was a one-game anomaly and that Homer would run off a string of 10 or 12 straight games where he dominated the opposing hitters, that would be one thing. But I suspect that the games where he dominates - THOSE are the anomalies.

I truly hope I am 100% wrong. I desperately WANT to be wrong. But I have my doubts.

DTCromer
04-10-2009, 09:08 AM
"Should've ... Could've ... Would've ..." I'm tired of the excuses. This poor outing by Bailey is probably been the most disappointing aspect of the start of the season for me - even more disappointing than the big club's start.

If I honestly felt this was a one-game anomaly and that Homer would run off a string of 10 or 12 straight games where he dominated the opposing hitters, that would be one thing. But I suspect that the games where he dominates - THOSE are the anomalies.

I truly hope I am 100% wrong. I desperately WANT to be wrong. But I have my doubts.

Oh well, at least he'll be the Reds top minor league prospect by baseball America for the 4th year in the row!

membengal
04-10-2009, 09:11 AM
Wow. Chill people. Lots of pitchers have had starts to the year that were less than what they wanted.

That list starts with Tim Lincecum and CC Sabathia. I have no reason to think the strides we saw in the spring and from his general maturity were illusory. His K:BB was solid in this one, so, generally, I would think, bad stuff sometimes happens to good pitchers.

Seriously, chill. Another 9 starts and we will have enough of a sample to know.

RedsManRick
04-10-2009, 09:19 AM
One walk, 5 strikeouts. Keep that up and the runs scored will come down.

Kc61
04-10-2009, 09:23 AM
Seriously, chill. Another 9 starts and we will have enough of a sample to know.


Actually, even 9 starts is too few. Bailey needs a full season at AAA. He's only 22, he probably should still be at AA. He's been rushed into the spotlight and clearly wasn't advanced enough to succeed. So let's keep things in perspective.

Even Jay Bruce, a phenomenal prospect, is having growing pains at 22.

It's no surprise that of all the Reds top prospects, Votto has succeeded. He had more experience, a bit older, perhaps a bit readier. He played a full, successful AAA season before hitting the show.

Bailey's performance last night is a sign that the Reds were just wrong if they were considering him for the major leagues this year. And if a spot opens up due to injury, they probably should go with Ramirez or Maloney before Bailey.

Give Bailey a chance to develop. He has one more year with options. Let him spend it figuring things out at AAA, every fifth day. No more bouncing him between Louisville and Cincy. My guess is that by the end of the season he will start to show some consistency.

And they should tell Homer -- "This is your year at AAA, all year, don't expect early call ups, don't put too much pressure on yourself, just go out and help the Bats and the rest will happen."

membengal
04-10-2009, 09:27 AM
I agree, KC, but will have a harder time arguing patience with some folks in here with regard to sample size when he gets to 10 starts this year.

I am happy he is where he is, and I also think he needs a full year of ups and downs and eventually sustained success at AAA.

Kc61
04-10-2009, 09:34 AM
I agree, KC, but will have a harder time arguing patience with some folks in here with regard to sample size when he gets to 10 starts this year.

I am happy he is where he is, and I also think he needs a full year of ups and downs and eventually sustained success at AAA.

Sure, I understand. And, hey, nobody is more impatient with the Reds than me. I want to see them win, right now, with every young phenom pitching all-star caliber baseball.

But in Homer's case I'm starting to think his progress is being hurt by all the expectations. He probably thinks that every start is an immediate stepping stone to the major leagues and puts too much pressure on himself.

They should treat him like they did Votto, like they are now doing with someone like Francisco. One level at a time.

HokieRed
04-10-2009, 09:50 AM
Agree entirely on his spending at least the better part of the year in AAA. He should never have been jerked up the way he's been in the past anyway--originally by the dynamic duo of Krivsky-Narron. Now is when he learns how to pitch and when we find out if he can do that. There is no other way. He may need to be a lot more precise with his fastball as well as his breaking stuff. One way to cope with having really bad location on the breaking stuff is to throw more hard stuff, but this means having the ability to move it around pretty precisely.
As to first week disappointments, I'm a lot more disappointed in Volquez's start After all. we didn't trade Josh for Homer.

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2009, 11:13 AM
I'll go ahead and bold the other important part.

It's one start, but it sounds like it was the same Homer. Spring Training means nothing, and one start doesn't mean very much. Definatley not encouraging though.

Actually, it didn't sound like the old Homer at all. The 2008 version of Homer had average stuff. Everyone who saw Homer last night said his stuff looked good. Jeff and Thom said Homer's breaking stuff was the best they've seen during spring training.

Edit - Apparently there was a steady rain falling throughout the game. A wet ball can make it very difficult to command a breaking pitch.

I'm not writing him off after one start. If he struggles again in his next two starts, I'll worry. But for now, I'm not worried at all. Bad starts happen.

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2009, 11:14 AM
One walk, 5 strikeouts. Keep that up and the runs scored will come down.

Exactly.

BRM
04-10-2009, 11:18 AM
One walk, 5 strikeouts. Keep that up and the runs scored will come down.

10 baserunners in 5.1 innings. Keep that up and the runs scored will stay sky high. I do agree the one walk is very encouraging and I definitely like seeing the one K per inning as well. All that said, it's only one start.

nate
04-10-2009, 11:23 AM
One walk, 5 strikeouts. Keep that up and the runs scored will come down.

Yes.

DTCromer
04-10-2009, 11:49 AM
If we're excited that Homer has a 5/1 K/BB ratio and still gave up 8 runs and 3 HR's, then that's a sad state for our fan base, franchise, and especially Homer.

nate
04-10-2009, 12:16 PM
If we're excited that Homer has a 5/1 K/BB ratio and still gave up 8 runs and 3 HR's, then that's a sad state for our fan base, franchise, and especially Homer.

I think the point being made was that IF he continues to have a 5:1 K/BB, the runs allowed will come down.

HokieRed
04-10-2009, 12:18 PM
I think Homer's going to be fine, and this, right now, is where we and he find out whether he can actually learn to pitch. As to the rain, sometimes it's raining. Throw more fastballs, hit the right spots, keep your team in the game. That's part of pitching.

krm1580
04-10-2009, 12:20 PM
You guys really need to relax regarding Homer its only one game. I doubt Oriole fans are getting ready to jump off a bridge because Matt Wieters went 0-3 with 2Ks last night in his AAA debut.

The other point people always overlook, is guys in the minors are there to work on specific things whether it is holding guys on base, or working on off speed pitches by thowing more of them or throwing them in counts where you would not normally throw them. As such results are not always indicative of progress.

Early in his career everyone was all pumped up on him because he was putting up great numbers throwing his cheese by overmatched hitters in the low minors and everyone saw him as a savior to for the pitching starved big league team.

Once he got to higher levels he started getting smacked around because he never fully developed offspeed stuff or command to go with the heat and everybody soured on him as a prospect.

So I look at it this way, he is on his last option and we have a strong rotation in the bigs so its not critical that he is ready immediately. His attitude has apparently changed, his stuff is better and if he takes some lumps early on in the minors fixing the things he needs work on, I am completely ok with that. I think by the end of the year he will have compiled many more good starts that bad and will be a productive major league pitcher. If it never happens for him then so be it, but I am not ready to kill him on one start.

HokieRed
04-10-2009, 12:27 PM
Well said, KRM.

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2009, 12:36 PM
You guys really need to relax regarding Homer its only one game. I doubt Oriole fans are getting ready to jump off a bridge because Matt Wieters went 0-3 with 2Ks last night in his AAA debut.

The other point people always overlook, is guys in the minors are there to work on specific things whether it is holding guys on base, or working on off speed pitches by thowing more of them or throwing them in counts where you would not normally throw them. As such results are not always indicative of progress.

Early in his career everyone was all pumped up on him because he was putting up great numbers throwing his cheese by overmatched hitters in the low minors and everyone saw him as a savior to for the pitching starved big league team.

Once he got to higher levels he started getting smacked around because he never fully developed offspeed stuff or command to go with the heat and everybody soured on him as a prospect.

So I look at it this way, he is on his last option and we have a strong rotation in the bigs so its not critical that he is ready immediately. His attitude has apparently changed, his stuff is better and if he takes some lumps early on in the minors fixing the things he needs work on, I am completely ok with that. I think by the end of the year he will have compiled many more good starts that bad and will be a productive major league pitcher. If it never happens for him then so be it, but I am not ready to kill him on one start.

Excellent post. You should post more often.

rotnoid
04-10-2009, 01:26 PM
The other point people always overlook, is guys in the minors are there to work on specific things whether it is holding guys on base, or working on off speed pitches by thowing more of them or throwing them in counts where you would not normally throw them. As such results are not always indicative of progress.

I thought the same thing reading this thread. It's like the veterans getting shelled in ST. Harang got knocked around, but came out and said he was definitely working on pitches. If Homer's working on the breaking ball, and his trouble came when throwing the breaking ball, that makes sense. He'll progress and progress well. Luckily, he's in the right place to do so.

Ghosts of 1990
04-10-2009, 01:52 PM
Not a huge deal. I'm not overly concerned yet. I think he will rebound nicely.

membengal
04-10-2009, 02:07 PM
Welcome KRM. Glad to hear from you.

dougdirt
04-10-2009, 02:11 PM
CC Sabathia. Tim Lincecum. Brandon Webb. Cliff Lee.

All were beaten around the first go around this year. Let me know how they are doing at the end of May (well, I expect Lee to be well behind the other three, but still). It is one game in the first week of the season. If one game means anything, Alex Buchholz is a better hitter than Yonder Alonso. Its been a long offseason and everyone seems to still be wearing their overreaction pants after not having anything baseball to talk about since September.

BoydsOfSummer
04-10-2009, 04:35 PM
Good news is...Yonder went yonder.

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2009, 05:38 PM
CC Sabathia. Tim Lincecum. Brandon Webb. Cliff Lee.

All were beaten around the first go around this year. Let me know how they are doing at the end of May (well, I expect Lee to be well behind the other three, but still). It is one game in the first week of the season. If one game means anything, Alex Buchholz is a better hitter than Yonder Alonso. Its been a long offseason and everyone seems to still be wearing their overreaction pants after not having anything baseball to talk about since September.

Add Cole Hamels to that list. He got rocked today: 3.2 IP, 11 H, 7 R, 1 BB, 1 K

kfm
04-10-2009, 06:23 PM
I can't beleive all of this concern after one start. One start great, bad, or anything in between is one start. Have some perspective for god's sake.

reds44
04-10-2009, 06:41 PM
It's not one start. It's a continuation of last season.

TOBTTReds
04-10-2009, 06:53 PM
CC Sabathia. Tim Lincecum. Brandon Webb. Cliff Lee.

All were beaten around the first go around this year. Let me know how they are doing at the end of May (well, I expect Lee to be well behind the other three, but still). It is one game in the first week of the season. If one game means anything, Alex Buchholz is a better hitter than Yonder Alonso. Its been a long offseason and everyone seems to still be wearing their overreaction pants after not having anything baseball to talk about since September.

Your examples were all Cy Young winners/contenders last year. Homer Bailey struggled at AAA and was horrible at the ML level. Not many fret about guys with amazing track records. Unfortunately, Homer has almost no track record. I would even say he has struggled in the last two seasons in the minor leagues.

dougdirt
04-10-2009, 08:48 PM
Your examples were all Cy Young winners/contenders last year. Homer Bailey struggled at AAA and was horrible at the ML level. Not many fret about guys with amazing track records. Unfortunately, Homer has almost no track record. I would even say he has struggled in the last two seasons in the minor leagues.

Yet it does suggest that everyone just has days where they didn't have it. Again, if its 3-4 more starts like this, then its a bigger issue. When its just one start, its nothing.

fearofpopvol1
04-10-2009, 10:06 PM
I have doubts about Homer Bailey and I don't know if he'll put it together. But to get amped over 1 start is ridiculous. Give him at least 3 starts and see where he's at.

kfm
04-10-2009, 10:27 PM
It's not one start. It's a continuation of last season.

It is one start. People get so worked up over things at the beginning of the season. If he got it handed to him in the middle of june, you wouldn't be up in arms. I have my doubts about Homer, but to get this worked up over one start is silly. Why don't we try something that seems foreign to some people and wait to see how his season develops.

Redhook
04-11-2009, 06:44 AM
Speaking of Homer, has anyone read the mock interview of Homer on Diamond Bloggers about his new pitch. If you haven't, give it a read. It's hilarious. Warning though: bad language.

GOYA
04-11-2009, 05:08 PM
(Quoting Homer) "I think a lot of it was not being able to locate any of my pitches outside of my fastball," he said. "I kept throwing sliders and curveballs in the dirt, then getting behind a few hitters. I tried to make a perfect pitch instead of a good pitch."

That's the best thing to come out of that game. The first step to getting your head right is to realize your head isn't right.

Did anyone hear what his velocity was?

Highlifeman21
04-11-2009, 09:41 PM
Speaking of Homer, has anyone read the mock interview of Homer on Diamond Bloggers about his new pitch. If you haven't, give it a read. It's hilarious. Warning though: bad language.

The hat he's wearing in the picture above the article is priceless.

I wanna see him pitch his knuckleball-fastball-slider combination pitch! I can't wait to hear The Cowboy call it by its true name!

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 12:23 AM
From Ask Hal:

Q What do you make of Homer Bailey giving up eight runs in his first Class AAA start? A reaction to his demotion or was spring training a mirage? — Gale, Lexington, Ky.

A To me, a natural letdown from disappointment. From what I saw this spring, Bailey was no mirage, he was bigger than all of Texas, including Odessa. My prediction: He’ll be in Cincinnati by May 15.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-reds/ask-hal-baileys-spring-was-no-mirage-78767.html