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Joseph
04-12-2009, 12:27 PM
Dickerson gets another chance to play finally.


Peglegs
Nyjer Morgan lf
Freddy Sanchez 2b
Nate McLouth cf
Ryan Doumit c
Adam LaRoche 1b
Andy LaRoche 3b
Brandon Moss rf
Jack Wilson ss
Ian Snell p

Redlegs
Willy Taveras cf
Chris Dickerson lf
Joey Votto 1b
Brandon Phillips 2b
Jay Bruce rf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Ramon Hernandez c
Alex Gonzalez ss
Aaron Harang p

jojo
04-12-2009, 12:45 PM
Dickerson gets another chance to play finally.

Lefties torch bad Snell and good Snell.

Today is made for Dickerson.

Votto and Bruce probably should Tivo the game too.... :cool:

membengal
04-12-2009, 01:05 PM
This really should be a feel good about themselves day with the bats.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 01:07 PM
This is a game the Reds really need to win. They can't afford to start out 1-4 and then go on a 10 game road trip.

jojo
04-12-2009, 01:13 PM
This is a game the Reds really need to win. They can't afford to start out 1-4 and then go on a 10 game road trip.

Worst case scenario...the Reds lose today and come home after a losing road trip. They risk coming home to a city that has already forgotten them.

I actually don't think that's hyperbole.

JaxRed
04-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Was kind of hoping to see Hanigan.

11larkin11
04-12-2009, 01:26 PM
...should have been the opening day lineup...

mth123
04-12-2009, 01:27 PM
Dickerson gets another chance to play finally.


Peglegs
Nyjer Morgan lf
Freddy Sanchez 2b
Nate McLouth cf
Ryan Doumit c
Adam LaRoche 1b
Andy LaRoche 3b
Brandon Moss rf
Jack Wilson ss
Ian Snell p

Redlegs
Willy Taveras cf
Chris Dickerson lf
Joey Votto 1b
Brandon Phillips 2b
Jay Bruce rf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Ramon Hernandez c
Alex Gonzalez ss
Aaron Harang p

No Sunday special. Hoped for Hanigan and Janish today.

RedFanAlways1966
04-12-2009, 01:29 PM
Don't think I will watch today. The only win came in a game that was not televised and I have watched all the losses; therefore, it must be me.

I am taking one for the team. You're welcome! :)

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 01:32 PM
Hope the good Harang shows up today--but with all the Pirates lefties, I'm not holding my breath.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 01:33 PM
...should have been the opening day lineup...

Nah, my lineup would have Janish at SS.

mth123
04-12-2009, 01:36 PM
Nah, my lineup would have Janish at SS.

This is a big test. IIRC, this will be Gonzalez first time at SS on back-to back days since 2007.

SirFelixCat
04-12-2009, 02:02 PM
This is the lineup we hoped to see more of...let's hope the guys put on a show, in a good way, today.

Go Reds!

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 02:03 PM
No HD Reds broadcast again? Is Cincy Fox Sports not available in HD, or am I missing something?

wheels
04-12-2009, 02:11 PM
No HD Reds broadcast again? Is Cincy Fox Sports not available in HD, or am I missing something?

They're just cheap.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:13 PM
Taveras has got to catch that ball. The ball hit his glove, he just failed to catch it.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:13 PM
A dinky lefty smashes Harang? Never.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 02:13 PM
How can an umpire call a guy safe before he is even there?

Why not question that bad call Chris and george? What are they paying you for?

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 02:14 PM
A dinky lefty smashes Harang? Never.

It was far from a smash.

pahster
04-12-2009, 02:15 PM
A dinky lefty smashes Harang? Never.

It was a weak fly ball to shallow center.

mth123
04-12-2009, 02:15 PM
Taveras has got to catch that ball. The ball hit his glove, he just failed to catch it.

I'm obviously not a Taveras guy, but he does have a pretty good arm (its actually his most valuable tool). He made that close from his butt.

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:16 PM
It was a weak fly ball to shallow center.

:lol:

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:16 PM
I've been watching a ton of Franklin Gutierrez who is an exceptional defender in center and he would've made that play on Morgan standing up.

Taveras isn't an elite defender.

mth123
04-12-2009, 02:17 PM
Taveras isn't an elite defender.
Nope. Not close.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:17 PM
Nice first inning from Harang.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:17 PM
That's Harang's first K against a lefty this season. And the Reds needed it.

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:17 PM
Nice K and a nice job by the broadcast team to show the defensive alignment in the outfield.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:17 PM
Taveras plays a very shallow CF. I don't like that. I'd much rather give up a bloop single than a double or triple.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:18 PM
It was a weak fly ball to shallow center.

The game ain't over yet. :)

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 02:18 PM
That's what? Already about 20 pitches? Can anyone get through 5 without throwing 100 pitches on this staff?

If Taveras is really that fast.....he sure does not show it. He obviously get's bad jumps.

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:19 PM
OK...lets rock Snell's world early and make this a boring afternoon for Pirates fan (not sure there is more than one).

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:19 PM
That's Harang's first K against a lefty this season. And the Reds needed it.

Harang struckout Luis Castillo on Opening Day.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:19 PM
That's what? Already about 20 pitches? Can anyone get through 5 without throwing 100 pitches on this staff?

.

An astonishingly low (for Harang) pitch count of 12 I believe.

mth123
04-12-2009, 02:20 PM
Taveras plays a very shallow CF. I don't like that. I'd much rather give up a bloop single than a double or triple.

Not me. I love a CF who plays shallow. A double here and there isn't worth a bunch of bloop hits. Remember Griffey in CF?

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:20 PM
Harang struckout Luis Castillo on Opening Day.

Oh right. That bulldog.

Tom Servo
04-12-2009, 02:21 PM
Stupid FSN/SportsSouth here gave me the first two Reds games and nothing since. And they're blacked out on the free Extra Innings trial. If my Reds are going to get their brains beaten in, I want to watch it!

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:21 PM
If the Reds can't do anything against Snell, then I'll concede that it is not only the defense and the pitching that sucks, but also the offense.

Still, I think the offense will rip him today.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:22 PM
I've been watching a ton of Franklin Gutierrez who is an exceptional defender in center and he would've made that play on Morgan standing up.

Taveras isn't an elite defender.

That was an exceptional play that Gutierrez made in Minnesota a few days ago.

nate
04-12-2009, 02:24 PM
Chat = open.

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:25 PM
If the righties get on today, the lefties need to make some hay....

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 02:25 PM
George breakin' out the "little things" reference twice in one minute...now that's hot.

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:25 PM
Nice to know that the Reds practice hitting into outs. :D

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:26 PM
Taveras leads off with a double but Dickerson and Votto follow with weak flyouts. Sheesh.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 02:26 PM
I love that Pirates socks....the way he wears them makes a 70's baseball follower proud.

Paul Blair played very shallow beacuse he was so good at going back on the ball and had speed. So did Andrew Jones when he was not looking like terry Forster.

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:27 PM
Man the empty seats are depressing. It's almost like a home game for the Pirates.

nate
04-12-2009, 02:28 PM
BP with an HR scoring WT!

mth123
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
Man the empty seats are depressing.

Easter Sunday. Hard to judge from that. The Pirates aren't exactly a draw.

Woo hoo Phillips.

MrCinatit
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
No-doubter homer by Phillips. Nice swing.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
Brandon tagged the heck out of that one...Reds up 2 - 0:beerme:

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
The Reds finally score first. 2-run homer by Phillips. 2-0 Reds.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
Snell sucks. Phillips has looked good so far, patience-wise, early on. Prove me wrong Brandon.

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 02:29 PM
WT got it started... whodda thunk it! :D

RedsManRick
04-12-2009, 02:30 PM
Looks like the missed productive out was nullified...

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:30 PM
It's only the first but I'm calling this one.

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 02:30 PM
It's only the first but I'm calling this one.

:beerme:

nate
04-12-2009, 02:30 PM
WT got it started... whodda thunk it! :D

With a double, no less.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:31 PM
Odds that Harang at least allows the first two hitters on base next inning?

mth123
04-12-2009, 02:31 PM
Snell sucks. Phillips has looked good so far, patience-wise, early on. Prove me wrong Brandon.

After the 07 season, most of Redszone wanted the Reds to find a way to get Snell (me included). I'd still take a shot at him getting it together.

redsmetz
04-12-2009, 02:32 PM
With a double, no less.

If Taveras can get the bat on the ball, with his wheels, he ought to be a double and triple machine. I know that's a bit extreme, but if he can do that, he's got some value in the two year deal we gave him. And maybe the ongoing bunt threat gives him some holes. That would be theory, right?

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:34 PM
After the 07 season, most of Redszone wanted the Reds to find a way to get Snell (me included). I'd still take a shot at him getting it together.

99.9% of pitchers don't get it. That's why you need a ton: I'd see what he could do in the pen, no doubt.

nate
04-12-2009, 02:34 PM
If Taveras can get the bat on the ball, with his wheels, he ought to be a double and triple machine. I know that's a bit extreme, but if he can do that, he's got some value in the two year deal we gave him. And maybe the ongoing bunt threat gives him some holes. That would be theory, right?

I dunno if I see the extra-base hits happening so much at home but maybe in some of the bigger parks westward.

membengal
04-12-2009, 02:34 PM
After the 07 season, most of Redszone wanted the Reds to find a way to get Snell (me included). I'd still take a shot at him getting it together.

Count me in that group, I thought he was about to cross over to dominating. His 08 was puzzling. Doesn't look like it has resolved itself.

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:35 PM
Odds that Harang at least allows the first two hitters on base next inning?

Hmm?

membengal
04-12-2009, 02:36 PM
It's like FCB is trying to reverse jinx Harang with the irrational hate.

nate
04-12-2009, 02:36 PM
Odds that Harang at least allows the first two hitters on base next inning?

Just put it on our tab!

:cool:

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:36 PM
Hmm?

Luck be a Pirate, tonight.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:37 PM
Harang throws a 1-2-3 second inning. 2-0 Reds.

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:38 PM
It's like FCB is trying to reverse jinx Harang with the irrational hate.

:lol:

FCB kills me. :D

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:38 PM
Can we now put away that teddy bear called the "extra-inning stint" as an excuse for poor performance. As long as my "irrational hate" can eradicate that baby, I'm okay with looking stupid.

That said, it's the second inning, against the worst 5-8 in MLB.

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:38 PM
Hope the good Harang shows up today--but with all the Pirates lefties, I'm not holding my breath.

Harang generally has no particular struggles against lefties.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Always look on the bright side of life FCB

redsmetz
04-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Not to make light of a serious situation, albeit it one that seems to have turned out well, with the ship captain being rescued, Marty just mentioned the U.S. Navy defeated the Pirates. Now it's our turn.

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:39 PM
Jeez, could they make the sign any smaller to win the Tundra? lol

Tom Servo
04-12-2009, 02:40 PM
Harang generally has no particular struggles against lefties.As I recall though, Adam LaRoche kills him.

remdog
04-12-2009, 02:40 PM
I'm not getting this on TV so I have a question about Harang. On cbs.gamecenter they showed every pitch that he threw in the 2nd inning under 85 mph, most of them slower.

Is that correct?

Rem

BCubb2003
04-12-2009, 02:40 PM
Not to make light of a serious situation, albeit it one that seems to have turned out well, with the ship captain being rescued, Marty just mentioned the U.S. Navy defeated the Pirates. Now it's our turn.

Yes, as Marty reported, "Hopefully the story from the Associated Press is correct."

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:41 PM
These pitchers DO NOT want to come to Edwin. They'd much rather face the guys after him.

Maybe time to put EE in a position to either force pitchers to face him or face some legitimate threats if they put him on base, Dusty?????

membengal
04-12-2009, 02:41 PM
Can we now put away that teddy bear called the "extra-inning stint" as an excuse for poor performance. As long as my "irrational hate" can eradicate that baby, I'm okay with looking stupid.

That said, it's the second inning, against the worst 5-8 in MLB.

No. Why? Give me one reason why anything that happens this year would eradicate the statistical evidence of what his 2008 was before and after that outing?

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:43 PM
These pitchers DO NOT want to come to Edwin. They'd much rather face the guys after him.

Maybe time to put EE in a position to either force pitchers to face him or face some legitimate threats if they put him on base, Dusty?????

I'd rather have a BB out of the 6 spot than infield popup out of the 2. ;)

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:43 PM
I'm not getting this on TV so I have a question about Harang. On cbs.gamecenter they showed every pitch that he threw in the 2nd inning under 85 mph, most of them slower.

Is that correct?

Rem

Gameday suggests he topped out at 88 with all but one pitch between 85-88 mph in the first. His second was similar.

redsmetz
04-12-2009, 02:44 PM
Yes, as Marty reported, "Hopefully the story from the Associated Press is correct."

CNN is reporting that he is free and unharmed. Back to the game.

jojo
04-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Reds got call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:45 PM
Stupid hit and run. With EdE on first, Hernandez was ahead 2-1 and they put the hit and run on, which forced Hernandez to swing at a 2-1 pitch that was 15 inches outside. Instead of a 3-1 count, he fouled the pitch off and then grounded into a FC.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:45 PM
No. Why? Give me one reason why anything that happens this year would eradicate the statistical evidence of what his 2008 was before and after that outing?

So you're saying that if Harang sees a similar dropoff this season, it's back to that extra-inning argument? Not his ineffectiveness?

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:45 PM
I'd rather have a BB out of the 6 spot than infield popup out of the 2. ;)

LOL

WMR
04-12-2009, 02:46 PM
Wow what an u-g-l-y K by Gonzo. Looked like Charles Barkley swinging a golf club on that one.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:47 PM
It looks like game threads are going to be unbearable on days Harang pitches.

membengal
04-12-2009, 02:47 PM
FCB: No. That was his 2008.

If something similar happens in 2009, without the insanity of a SD event, it will point to something else, like the loss of effectiveness you keep crowing about.

At some point, does Janish deserve some at-bats over Alex G?

nate
04-12-2009, 02:48 PM
At some point, does Janish deserve some at-bats over Alex G?

Yes?

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:49 PM
It looks like game threads are going to be unbearable on days Harang pitches.

As long as he doesn't suck, I'm sure it'll be fine. Just like any other pitcher.

Tom Servo
04-12-2009, 02:51 PM
I'm willing to give Gonzo some benefit of the doubt given how his 2007 was basically comprised of a variety of hot and cold streaks. Hopefully he's just cold now but will heat up soon.

Playadlc
04-12-2009, 02:54 PM
Harang doesn't seem to have much life on his 4 seemer today. I don't think he has thrown a pitch over 87 mph.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 02:54 PM
Harang's throwing a LOT more strikes so far today. Which is very good.

HokieRed
04-12-2009, 02:55 PM
IMHO, the only thing keeping Gonzalez in the lineup is his salary.

OnBaseMachine
04-12-2009, 02:57 PM
2-0 Reds going into the bottom of the third.

pahster
04-12-2009, 03:00 PM
That was an...interesting swing by Taveras.

mth123
04-12-2009, 03:06 PM
HIt that too hard.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 03:06 PM
Votto continues to rake with a double to left. Just missed a homer.

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 03:06 PM
Votto 2B

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 03:07 PM
BP barely got in the batters box before grounding out on that one.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 03:07 PM
Alright, so never mind on praising Phillips.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 03:09 PM
No kidding....I mean it worked for you the first time....why not try working the count again.

nate
04-12-2009, 03:10 PM
Bruce is having trouble getting going.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2009, 03:10 PM
I can already sense after that debacle that the Reds are going to lose this one.

WVRedsFan
04-12-2009, 03:12 PM
I can already sense after that debacle that the Reds are going to lose this one.

I don't think so. This Pirates team is pretty bad. Phillips and Bruce just aren't patient enough to get hits when they are needed. Phillips swung at the first pitch and Bruce came out of the dugout swinging. He was a strikeout waiting to happen.

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 03:12 PM
I can already sense after that debacle that the Reds are going to lose this one.

:thumbdown

nate
04-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Chat is still open to discuss the game and FCB's predicitions!

(Just jokes, FCB!)

:cool:

WMR
04-12-2009, 03:16 PM
No kidding....I mean it worked for you the first time....why not try working the count again.

Phillips is one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent memory.

nate
04-12-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm willing to give Gonzo some benefit of the doubt given how his 2007 was basically comprised of a variety of hot and cold streaks. Hopefully he's just cold now but will heat up soon.


Phillips is one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent memory.

As Reds fans, the "frustrating players field" is a target rich environment.

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:19 PM
Phillips is one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent memory.

How is that? I think he is one of the only good Reds players to watch in recent memory.

Seems like Dickerson got a free pass around here but he should have scored on Votto's double. The whole idea of having speed guys is to take the extra base, be aggressive on the bases. No reason for him to have pulled up at third.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 03:20 PM
Without a doubt.....but i also know why he did it....beacuse that is really who he is. A hacker.

Again.....bad game in commentary by George (who i expect nothing of substance from) and Chris (who i expect more from)

Morgan looks like Paul Blair ...in body size and in uniform style. :thumbup:

WMR
04-12-2009, 03:21 PM
Without a doubt.....but i also know why he did it....beacuse that is really who he is. A hacker.



Yep. That's what makes it so tantalizing when he actually does exhibit some patience. Makes you wonder why that part of his hitting brain can't stay turned on.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-12-2009, 03:22 PM
Although struggling here, I'm happy to report Ramon Hernandez is off to a blazing start in my MLB The Show campaign!

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 03:25 PM
No. Why? Give me one reason why anything that happens this year would eradicate the statistical evidence of what his 2008 was before and after that outing?

I agree with FCB on this one. That outing on the 25th was just after he went 5.1 ip against that same SD team when he allowed 10 hits & 5 runs. I don't think that 25th outing helped by any means...but it wasn't the signal of a downward spiral. He was already struggling prior to that game.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 03:26 PM
How is that? I think he is one of the only good Reds players to watch in recent memory.

Seems like Dickerson got a free pass around here but he should have scored on Votto's double. The whole idea of having speed guys is to take the extra base, be aggressive on the bases. No reason for him to have pulled up at third.

Votto hit the ball so hard that Morgan got to it right away and got the ball back in the infield. There was one out, Phillips and Bruce coming up. Runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, and your fourth and fifth hitters coming up, no sense in getting him thrown out at home. Don't really see how Dickerson was given a free pass there?

reds44
04-12-2009, 03:27 PM
Dickerson covers so much ground in LF.

Matt700wlw
04-12-2009, 03:27 PM
Harang has given up his second hit on the day. Shut out still alive!

CTA513
04-12-2009, 03:27 PM
16 pitches total for Harang over the last 2 innings

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:28 PM
Sir Charles: For the love of all that was holy. No, he wasn't. Take a longer view of that year, for petessake.

And go look up any of 500 threads on it. Or any national publication that has looked at it. Baseball Prospectus, for instance. This is not the place to rehash. Not to put too fine a point on it, Sir Charles, but you are dead in the water wrong on this, and come stupid every time you bring it up.

HumnHilghtFreel
04-12-2009, 03:29 PM
I cant see the game, I know guys have said Harangs velocity is down today but how has his stuff looked? Looking at the box he seems to be pounding the zone

nate
04-12-2009, 03:29 PM
Dickerson covers so much ground in LF.

Yep, he sure does.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 03:30 PM
Sir Charles: For the love of all that was holy. No, he wasn't. Take a longer view of that year, for petessake.

And go look up any of 500 threads on it. Or any national publication that has looked at it. Baseball Prospectus, for instance. This is not the place to rehash. Not to put too fine a point on it, Sir Charles, but you are dead in the water wrong on this, and come stupid every time you bring it up.

Ok, let's NOT get nasty with one another in the game thread.

nate
04-12-2009, 03:30 PM
I cant see the game, I know guys have said Harangs velocity is down today but how has his stuff looked? Looking at the box he seems to be pounding the zone

It seems that way. Doesn't look like he's throwing super hard but he's hitting his spots nicely.

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:32 PM
My apologies, Chicago Red. But that is rehashed ground, Sir Charles KNOWS those stats, he knows those threads, and he returns to the same myopic and discredited argument here. I will try and walk away.

FCB, what what it's worth, that ball four pitch to Harang looked a lot like strike 2, to me, Snell got weirdly squeezed on that.

nate
04-12-2009, 03:32 PM
It almost looked like Willy T tried to knock down the throw to first on the bunt.

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:32 PM
Votto hit the ball so hard that Morgan got to it right away and got the ball back in the infield. There was one out, Phillips and Bruce coming up. Runners on 2nd and 3rd with one out, and your fourth and fifth hitters coming up, no sense in getting him thrown out at home. Don't really see how Dickerson was given a free pass there?

I didn't think the outfielder was in position to make a strong throw. I was surprised that Dickerson didn't go for it, I thought he would have made it.

reds44
04-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Dickerson is a man.

WMR
04-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Does Harang have a piano on his back?

nate
04-12-2009, 03:34 PM
Nice hustle by CD there.

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:34 PM
Now THAT is heady base-running by Dickerson to take 2nd on the bloop to CF when the Pirates were distracted by Harang to 3b.

KC: The only fault with Dickerson the previous time on base and his base-running is not picking up Berry quick enough as he approached second. Since he was stealing, and he lost the ball in the air, I can't fault him for not going all out to score after what happened to Bruce yesterday...

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 03:34 PM
I didn't think the outfielder was in position to make a strong throw. I was surprised that Dickerson didn't go for it, I thought he would have made it.

He must have heard you Kc, cause he just went for it there ;)

Matt700wlw
04-12-2009, 03:34 PM
Dickerson!

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:35 PM
Here's my guess why Dickerson just took that extra base stretching the single to a double. Somebody in the club house must have told him that he should have been more aggressive on the earlier play when he stayed at third and didn't score.

Reds should get Rosales up and send someone like Macdonald down after this game. Votto needs a backup first baseman until he feels one hundred percent again. Rosales is tearing up AAA and can play that role.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 03:35 PM
Waste of an AB for Taveras......let's the sacrifice the pitcher over. I don't care if he was trying to bunt for a base hit......you have a pitcher at 1st base. Swing away.

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:36 PM
He must have heard you Kc, cause he just went for it there ;)

Well, I'm constantly yelling at my TV, so maybe I finally broke through to one of these guys!

WMR
04-12-2009, 03:36 PM
Here's my guess why Dickerson just took that extra base stretching the single to a double. Somebody in the club house must have told him that he should have been more aggressive on the earlier play when he stayed at third and didn't score.

Reds should get Rosales up and send someone like Macdonald down after this game. Votto needs a backup first baseman until he feels one hundred percent again. Rosales is tearing up AAA and can play that role.

I would guess that CD is just playing the game like he's always played it.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 03:37 PM
Ming boggling....hottest hitter up and he cannot even bring 1 run in.

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:37 PM
Here's my guess why Dickerson just took that extra base stretching the single to a double. Somebody in the club house must have told him that he should have been more aggressive on the earlier play when he stayed at third and didn't score.

Reds should get Rosales up and send someone like Macdonald down after this game. Votto needs a backup first baseman until he feels one hundred percent again. Rosales is tearing up AAA and can play that role.

I hope not. Bruce was "aggressive" to end the game. Berry was "aggressive" in sending Votto earlier in the game. "Aggression" is fine, but only in spots where appropriate. As hard as Votto doubled in the inning where Dickerson held up at third, even if he goes all out around second, as hard as that ball came off the wall, and with one out, I would have hated to have seen him run into the second out at home.

My preference would have been to give Phillips and Bruce shots at knocking him home. That they didn't does not make saving the out a bad play.

nate
04-12-2009, 03:38 PM
I hope not. Bruce was "aggressive" to end the game. Berry was "aggressive" in sending Votto earlier in the game. "Aggression" is fine, but only in spots where appropriate. As hard as Votto doubled in the inning where Dickerson held up at third, even if he goes all out around second, as hard as that ball came off the wall, and with one out, I would have hated to have seen him run into the second out at home.

I've always been a fan of "smart" over "aggressive."

remdog
04-12-2009, 03:39 PM
"Votto needs a backup first baseman until he feels one hundred percent again."

I don't understand that comment. What's not 100%? I've seen nothing on the internet or newspapers that he's not 100%.

Rem

BCubb2003
04-12-2009, 03:39 PM
I wonder if aggression where appropriate is a contradiction.

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:40 PM
I hope not. Bruce was "aggressive" to end the game. Berry was "aggressive" in sending Votto earlier in the game. "Aggression" is fine, but only in spots where appropriate. As hard as Votto doubled in the inning where Dickerson held up at third, even if he goes all out around second, as hard as that ball came off the wall, and with one out, I would have hated to have seen him run into the second out at home.

A few of the Reds have excellent speed. They need to use it. Obviously they should try to use it wisely. But this shouldn't be a station to station team.

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:41 PM
I agree KC, but as hard as that Votto ball was tagged, and fielded cleanly off the short wall in LF, I don't think Deion Sanders in his prime is safely home there.

WVRedsFan
04-12-2009, 03:41 PM
Phillips does it again. Wow.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 03:41 PM
Reds fail to score for a second time with runners on second and third and only one out. Not a way to win many ballgames....sigh

klw
04-12-2009, 03:42 PM
Phillips does it again. Wow.

Did he homer again?

WVRedsFan
04-12-2009, 03:43 PM
Did he homer again?

:)

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:43 PM
No.

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:43 PM
"Votto needs a backup first baseman until he feels one hundred percent again."

I don't understand that comment. What's not 100%? I've seen nothing on the internet or newspapers that he's not 100%.

Rem

Votto got a slight injury the other day sliding at home plate. They just said on the TV broadcast that it seemed, perhaps, to be bothering him on that last at bat.

The Reds have six outfielders. They don't have a natural backup first baseman, or third baseman for that matter. So Rosales has a role, is hitting well, should be with the club.

jojo
04-12-2009, 03:43 PM
Any major league caliber righty is a tough match up for Phillips. He won a battle in the first against one. Criticizing him for losing this one really might be more greedy than fair...

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:44 PM
Funny how it wasn't bothering Voto when he doubled in the fourth...I think the TV crew need to chill on excuses. Sometimes pitchers make good pitches and batter make outs. Snell made a quality pitch to Votto and won that exchange. Unfortunately.

jojo
04-12-2009, 03:46 PM
How the heck does Harang have 5 ks?

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:46 PM
Finally, new Reds killer Nyjer Morgan makes an out. Another K for Harang, who is generally dealing today.

WVRedsFan
04-12-2009, 03:48 PM
Of course, the problem with these innings where we could score it always comes down to the same two or three guys who have the opportunity to drive in runs. It's ludicrous to think they can deliver all the time. The problem with Brandon Phillips is patience. He didn't give the pitcher a chance to make a mistake. I unfortunately see this in Jay Bruce too and hope he outgrows it. Brandon will always be like that.

reds44
04-12-2009, 03:49 PM
Harang is dealin'

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:49 PM
Harang is in the zone, 7 Ks now.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 03:49 PM
Ok, let's NOT get nasty with one another in the game thread.

I agree. I've already responded, but via PM.

Kc61
04-12-2009, 03:49 PM
Funny how it wasn't bothering Voto when he doubled in the fourth...I think the TV crew need to chill on excuses. Sometimes pitchers make good pitches and batter make outs. Snell made a quality pitch to Votto and won that exchange. Unfortunately.

The TV crew said it earlier in the at bat, not as an excuse for Votto striking out. I have no idea if it's really bothering him, but as a matter of roster composition the Reds should have a backup for both Votto and EE and they don't.

Meanwhile, this is the best Harang has looked since last year in San Diego. It's the Harang of old today.

Matt700wlw
04-12-2009, 03:50 PM
Harang pitching a gem! K's the side!

CTA513
04-12-2009, 03:50 PM
Harang now at 68 pitches after striking out the side in the 6th.

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 03:51 PM
Harang en fuego?
7-Ks through 6-IP

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 03:52 PM
A CG is always a nice thing for me to see. Old school baby!

remdog
04-12-2009, 03:52 PM
Harang pitching a gem! K's the side!

Pitch count 68 through 6, even with the K's! WOW!

Rem

Matt700wlw
04-12-2009, 03:52 PM
Hernandez would play 1B if Votto couldn't go

WMR
04-12-2009, 03:53 PM
Golden Sombrero

WMR
04-12-2009, 03:54 PM
How the heck does Harang have 5 ks?

Same way he's got seven now. Getting his pitches over with good location.

Matt700wlw
04-12-2009, 03:54 PM
Bruce really struggling out of the gate....he looks lost

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:54 PM
Bruce looks lost at the moment at the plate. Ks. Again.

EE with a single to CF.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 03:54 PM
Hernandez? Come on.....that's just in theory. ;)

Snell can be good...but no way should he be good enough to strikeout Bruce 3 straight times.

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 03:55 PM
So talk to me about Bruce... :(

Blitz Dorsey
04-12-2009, 03:55 PM
Boy is Freddy Sanchez a little whiner or what.

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:55 PM
Chris Welsh needs to stop playing Dr. from the booth.

reds44
04-12-2009, 03:57 PM
Wow. What a DP.

membengal
04-12-2009, 03:57 PM
You go on with your bad self, Jack Wilson.

Now THAT is defense at SS. Gracious.

remdog
04-12-2009, 03:58 PM
The TV crew said it earlier in the at bat, not as an excuse for Votto striking out. I have no idea if it's really bothering him..."

Well, the TV crew is reporting in the moment so maybe they are seeing something. However, every other report I've seen says that the worst thing he did on that slide at home plate was need a new pair of pants.

It's a little too early for me to say, difinitively, that he's hurt. (Unless it was Doc Hollywood doing the diagnosis. :) )

I agree that the roster construction isn't too good but that was a seperate subject to what I was asking about.

Rem

jojo
04-12-2009, 03:58 PM
Same way he's got seven now. Getting his pitches over with good location.

I think we're watching a guy throwing strikes against a lineup that is sleep walking.....

Stormy
04-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Hope the good Harang shows up today--but with all the Pirates lefties, I'm not holding my breath.

Aside from a span of time with an injured arm last year, the 'good Harang' has shown up in the vast majority of his starts for the past 4+ years. Today is no exception.

jojo
04-12-2009, 03:59 PM
You go on with your bad self, Jack Wilson.

Now THAT is defense at SS. Gracious.

That was pretty. Web gem moral victory for the Bucco fan.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:03 PM
That's likely #1 play of the day for ESPN tonight.

reds44
04-12-2009, 04:04 PM
Just dealing.

WMR
04-12-2009, 04:04 PM
I think we're watching a guy throwing strikes against a lineup that is sleep walking.....

Disagree. That last K was some sick stuff. Talk about pulling the string.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:05 PM
Echo Reds44: Flat nasty stuff today. Pounding the strike zone with each of his pitches. Is the only hit he has allowed that dying blooper to Morgan to start the game?

Stormy
04-12-2009, 04:05 PM
Disagree. That last K was some sick stuff. Talk about pulling the string.

Agreed. Harang is always a bulldog in the Harnisch mold, moving the ball in and out, locating his pitches, and changing tempo with his offspeed selections on 2 strike counts. He's always dominated without appearing dominating.

reds44
04-12-2009, 04:05 PM
The Pirates have two hits.

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:06 PM
Golden Sombrero

Golden Sombreo is 4 K's. Jay's still got some work to do. :lol:

Rem

wheels
04-12-2009, 04:06 PM
Aside from a span of time with an injured arm last year, the 'good Harang' has shown up in the vast majority of his starts for the past 4+ years. Today is no exception.

Yup.

Today is VINTAGE Harang. Nothing fancy, just dicing up the plate.

He's a mench.

Degenerate39
04-12-2009, 04:06 PM
Echo Reds44: Flat nasty stuff today. Pounding the strike zone with each of his pitches. Is the only hit he has allowed that dying blooper to Morgan to start the game?

Moss had a hit I think

RedsManRick
04-12-2009, 04:06 PM
I really hope Cueto and Volquez are watching closely. Harang doesn't have their stuff, but when you keep it low and in the zone, good things happen.

CTA513
04-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Harang is now 9 K's away from reaching 1000 for his career.

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Where is FCB? :D


Can someone explain to me why God Bless America is now the standard for every game? Nothing wrong with the song but does it need to be done every time?

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:08 PM
That's right, Moss with the other.

At any rate, good stuff from what is still the staff ace today. They needed somone on in the staff to step and set things to right. Hopefully the others can build on this.

wheels
04-12-2009, 04:09 PM
This one's got "complete game" written all over it.

I love that big dork.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:09 PM
On the offensive side of things, Bruce, Ramon H, and Alex G have looked particularly lost at the plate this week. The team needs to get them going, or feel comfortable giving a few more at-bats to Hanigan and Janish, say, in order to make the bottom of the line-up effective here in the short term.

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:10 PM
Harang is now 9 K's away from reaching 1000 for his career.

We should start a pool at redszone concerning who will be Harang's #1K K.

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:10 PM
Where is FCB? :D


Can someone explain to me why God Bless America is now the standard for every game? Nothing wrong with the song but does it need to be done every time?

I think he's watching the Astros game... :cool:

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Nice at-bat from Taveras again, to get the single. With two outs, I would love to see him steal here. Or try to. Go, man.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Stolen base! Nice work, Willy T.

Now pick him up, Chris.

reds44
04-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Taveras steals 2nd.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Wow. What a DP.

Well, I'm not watching...only listening, but Gameday just posted that DP. Good lord. Now I see what the fuss was about. That was mighty nice.

Blitz Dorsey
04-12-2009, 04:14 PM
I tell ya guys... I like Taveras' swing. There is no question he needs to take more walks (and maybe he's finally realizing that) but the guy definitely takes a nice, controlled cut for a leadoff man. I was pretty critical of the signing, but I like what I see so far. They just need to keep stressing him to work the count and take some walks when he can (of course, Dusty is the manager, so maybe they're not stressing that at all, who knows).

WMR
04-12-2009, 04:14 PM
Golden Sombreo is 4 K's. Jay's still got some work to do. :lol:

Rem

:redface:

My bad!!

TheBurn
04-12-2009, 04:15 PM
WT showing RZ up! :D

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:15 PM
Nice opportunity for CD

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:15 PM
Golden Sombreo is 4 K's. Jay's still got some work to do. :lol:

Rem

I was going to say something...but I wasn't 100% sure it was 4 or 3. :O)

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:15 PM
Actually, not a bad performance by Snell. Yeah, his pitch count was a bit up there and he got taged by Phillips for the two-run dinger but that's about it.

So, the question is: did Snell pitch well or is the Reds offense offensive?

Rem

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:17 PM
Snell got better as the game went on, and was throwing strikes himself. But he should have been dinged for a few additional runs than they got off of him.

CD with the walk. Lefty coming in to face Votto.

Blitz Dorsey
04-12-2009, 04:18 PM
I really hope Cueto and Volquez are watching closely. Harang doesn't have their stuff, but when you keep it low and in the zone, good things happen.

And pump strike after strike. Volquez and Cueto try and be too cute and go for too many strikeouts IMO. Neither of them are pitch efficient. Volquez was so good last year that he got away with it. When you stay around the plate, Ks will happen like today for Harang. When you press and try and nibble around the plate, you are going to rack up the pitch count (and the walks and runs).

I like Volquez and Cueto a lot, but hopefully they are taking notes today.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:19 PM
Actually, not a bad performance by Snell. Yeah, his pitch count was a bit up there and he got taged by Phillips for the two-run dinger but that's about it.

So, the question is: did Snell pitch well or is the Reds offense offensive?

Rem

A bit of both IMO. Snell has always underperformed in my view. I've always liked his stuff and still think he'll put it all together. The defense helped him today as did Bruce & Gonzo's struggles at the plate. At the end of the season, both Snell & our offense will be fine.

WMR
04-12-2009, 04:19 PM
I wish Dick Pole would make Cueto and Volquez sit down and watch Harang's game tape from today.

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:20 PM
Snell got better as the game went on, and was throwing strikes himself. But he should have been dinged for a few additional runs than they got off of him.

Good answer.

So, how do the Reds solve that problem?

Personally, I think Bruce will struggle a bit in the first half of the season. I also think it will 'click' for him in the second half. Right now, I'd give Bruce, Hernandez and Gonzo a day or two off, let them work in the cage and feel confident the next time they go out there.

Rem

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:20 PM
This is a tougher match up for Votto.

Blitz Dorsey
04-12-2009, 04:22 PM
nm

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:23 PM
nm

What does this guy dare throw if the count goes full?

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:23 PM
What does this guy dare throw if the count goes full?

Nevermind.

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:25 PM
And pump strike after strike. Volquez and Cueto try and be too cute and go for too many strikeouts IMO. Neither of them are pitch efficient. Volquez was so good last year that he got away with it. When you stay around the plate, Ks will happen like today for Harang. When you press and try and nibble around the plate, you are going to rack up the pitch count (and the walks and runs).

I like Volquez and Cueto a lot, but hopefully they are taking notes today.

I agree. It may be a cliche but 'trust your stuff' works if you've got 'the stuff'. Attack the hitter and the plate. Make them beat you. Don't 9beat yourself.

Both Volquez and Cueto have the stuff---now they just have to trust it.

Rem

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:27 PM
Both Volquez and Cueto have stuff that moves a lot which generally means more balls. If I could change anything about Cueto it would be related to throwing up in the zone.

BCubb2003
04-12-2009, 04:27 PM
I agree. It may be a cliche but 'trust your stuff' works if you've got 'the stuff'. Attack the hitter and the plate. Make them beat you. Don't 9beat yourself.

Both Volquez and Cueto have the stuff---now they just have to trust it.

Rem

Does that translate to: Throw it down the middle because it won't end up there?

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:27 PM
Good from Harang there, his 2-2 yakker should have been a called strike three, ump blew the call. Harang shrugs it off, pumps another strike on the full count pitch rather than give up the walk, and gets a bouncer back to the mound. Choice work.

Fly out for second out of the inning.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 04:27 PM
So far it's been enough, but yet once again, Harang is not getting very much run support. I hope he can hang on for the next 4 outs and get the W. Could help his confidence a bit.

reds44
04-12-2009, 04:28 PM
Pitches for Harang?

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Grounder to 2b.

Great and quick 8th from Harang.

2-0 Reds middle of 8. Harang with 90 pitches on the day.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Do you let Aaron go for the CG? He's around 90 pitches. I'd say yes for sure. He's been flat out solid today.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Pitches for Harang?

I think 91, 68 of which were strikes.

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Anyone else think we'll see Coco start the 9th?

Rem

klw
04-12-2009, 04:30 PM
Well, the TV crew is reporting in the moment so maybe they are seeing something. However, every other report I've seen says that the worst thing he did on that slide at home plate was need a new pair of pants.

It's a little too early for me to say, difinitively, that he's hurt. (Unless it was Doc Hollywood doing the diagnosis. :) )

I agree that the roster construction isn't too good but that was a seperate subject to what I was asking about.

Rem

Article on Votto's sore knee from MLB.com
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090412&content_id=4235548&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

reds44
04-12-2009, 04:30 PM
Definatley letting Harang finish this.

Have Cordero getting hot just in case.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:31 PM
Harang def should go out to start the 9th, with Cordero ready should someone get on. Harang deserves a chance to finish this gem.

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:31 PM
Does that translate to: Throw it down the middle because it won't end up there?

I think Harang has translated 'trust your stuff' perfectly today.

Rem

Tony Cloninger
04-12-2009, 04:31 PM
I understand why FCB get's down on Harang.....beacuse he can be this good most of the time but will lose his concentration. In this game however...he has it all.

Reminds me of the STL game where he 1 hit them.

Pirates did score 10 runs ...so they might suck most of the time on offense but they are still no to be taken lightly. Good thing harang did not.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:32 PM
Cordero warming.

Degenerate39
04-12-2009, 04:33 PM
"Coco Cordero" warming

remdog
04-12-2009, 04:33 PM
I would love to see Aaron get the CG---after all, I may be the original 'old school'. :)

Just taking in the 'Dusty factor'. :lol:

Rem

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:34 PM
There's the "good" Brandon, KC. I liked the patience there and him taking the BB. I think sometimes, when guys are on base, Brandon presses too much to try and make something happen, and makes himself at times an easier out in those situations than he should be.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:34 PM
Going for win #1, Indians & Nationals....

Indians up 5-4 over the Jays in the 7th
Nats down 5-4 to the Braves in the 7th

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:34 PM
Harang is still 60 pitches below Dusty's limit....

jojo
04-12-2009, 04:35 PM
Go yard Jay.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:35 PM
Bruce with a dribbler to 3b, 3b-man looks to 2nd and then double pumps, then goes to 1b and Bruce beats it out. Scored a base hit.

BCubb2003
04-12-2009, 04:35 PM
I think Harang has translated 'trust your stuff' perfectly today.

Rem

Harang has moved the ball around very well. But how is that different from Volquez and Cueto nibbling? If you had to explain it to Volquez and Cueto.

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:35 PM
No matter HOW much Bruce is struggling...hustling helps. :O)

Safe on an IF hit.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 04:35 PM
Harang is still 60 pitches below Dusty's limit....

That made me laugh out loud.

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Triple play.

Seriously.

reds44
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Wow. A triple play.

Red in Chicago
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
R U kidding me with the triple play:(

_Sir_Charles_
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Wow. Triple play. Double steal backfires. That's just crappy luck right there. I like the aggresiveness...just poor luck.

WMR
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
My lord. :lol:

membengal
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Man does that make me nervous for the 9th. Weird thing to occur there where it looked like the Reds might be able to expand the lead.

Degenerate39
04-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Remember when Ross hit into a triple play a few years ago

Matt700wlw
04-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Reds run themselves into a triple play. Wow.

RedsManRick
04-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Reds baserunning... it's fantastic! How many outs on the bases have we made this year? It's got to be nearly an inning's worth a game.

RBA
04-12-2009, 04:38 PM
That triple play was too easy. Almost like it was in slow motion.