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DTCromer
04-12-2009, 02:14 PM
I just wanted to assure everyone that just because Jay's BB/K ratio was terrible in the minors, there's no reason to worry about at the Big Show.

OH, he just K'd again and is 0-2 with 2 Ks today.

Don't worry though, those numbers will improve as we were told by numerous Reds fans.

schmidty622
04-12-2009, 03:04 PM
0-3 with 3 ks now. He'll get better. It's just going to take him some time to get used to big league pitching.

Ghosts of 1990
04-12-2009, 04:03 PM
I just wanted to assure everyone that just because Jay's BB/K ratio was terrible in the minors, there's no reason to worry about at the Big Show.

OH, he just K'd again and is 0-2 with 2 Ks today.

Don't worry though, those numbers will improve as we were told by numerous Reds fans.

Now that Dunn is gone I assume Bruce will be your new whipping boy.

Let me ask you something.... you think that Harang's ERA will be 0.68 at seasons end? You think Votto will hit .400? Well Bruce's average won't be .200 for long either. He's scuffing a little bit.

What is it with some of you? What do you want from him?

schmidty622
04-12-2009, 04:07 PM
Now that Dunn is gone I assume Bruce will be your new whipping boy.

Let me ask you something.... you think that Harang's ERA will be 0.68 at seasons end? You think Votto will hit .400? Well Bruce's average won't be .200 for long either. He's scuffing a little bit.

What is it with some of you? What do you want from him?

I for one would like him to show some progress from last year. I realize it's a small sample size but in the spring and early season at bats he hasn't shown much.

I think it will take him the first half of this season and then the light will go on.

Ghosts of 1990
04-12-2009, 04:34 PM
I for one would like him to show some progress from last year. I realize it's a small sample size but in the spring and early season at bats he hasn't shown much.

I think it will take him the first half of this season and then the light will go on.

He hit .300 this spring with a good amount of RBI and 3 home runs, including a home run off a tough lefty in Scott Kazmir. There are some stats.

Then you have what was in print. Although I did not see it I heard and was told that Bruce was going up the middle and the other way regularly. What more progress do you need? Because he hasn't lit it up the first 5 games? Come on.

DTCromer
04-12-2009, 04:45 PM
I don't know how many times Bruce has swung at Ball 4 this year so far.

And I realize it's a small sample size, but I was just pointing out that just because he had a history of low walks and high K's in the minors that he'd be fine in the majors as was told by so many people on this board. The guy is good, but lets temper our expectations because Reds fans tend to over hype of some their players. . .just like Dunn.

REDblooded
04-12-2009, 05:06 PM
Good god some of you are ignorant... He's pressing right now. Who cares? It's the first week of the season...

tbball10
04-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Bruce has been in hitter's counts almost every at bat I've seen so far this year. He's been getting to 2-0, 2-1, or 3-1 alot so far, and is simply not capitalizing. So maybe he can't hit anymore and is going to suck the rest of his career. However, I think it is more likely that 5 games is a small sample size, and that if continues his approach at the plate and keeps getting in hitter's counts, he will start hitting the ball and hitting it hard. He's 22, quit overreacting!

ChatterRed
04-12-2009, 06:48 PM
Face it.........Bruce was the anointed one, but Votto is the man.

Ghosts of 1990
04-12-2009, 06:53 PM
Face it.........Bruce was the anointed one, but Votto is the man.

Not at all should one look at it that way.

Votto has him now, but Votto is at his ceiling. Bruce's ceiling is much higher. He will close the gap and catch him in the coming 500, 1000, 1500 at bats.

Joey has 3 years and almost 500 at bats on Jay. Acting like this is a forgone conclusion is simply just not known.

Ghosts of 1990
04-12-2009, 06:58 PM
Good god some of you are ignorant... He's pressing right now. Who cares? It's the first week of the season...

agreed.

You'd have to have played baseball above a certain level to know what it feels like and what it means to press a little, so most here get a free pass. :cool:

ChatterRed
04-12-2009, 07:11 PM
agreed.

You'd have to have played baseball above a certain level to know what it feels like and what it means to press a little, so most here get a free pass. :cool:

Well of course I'm just making a guess. I just think Votto will turn out to be better in the long run. I still like Jay.

I have two friends who played minor league baseball. Both like Joey better longterm. Maybe they've influenced me, but I like Votto better long term too. Hopefully they both turn out to be studs.

schmidty622
04-12-2009, 07:12 PM
In no way am I saying Bruce should sit or that Bruce should go down. What I am saying is he has not looked good so far. I don't think thats really arguable.

He will be good, no doubt. He just hasn't looked it so far in this short season.

schmidty622
04-12-2009, 07:20 PM
Well of course I'm just making a guess. I just think Votto will turn out to be better in the long run. I still like Jay.

I have two friends who played minor league baseball. Both like Joey better longterm. Maybe they've influenced me, but I like Votto better long term too. Hopefully they both turn out to be studs.

I like Votto better long term too. Much better plate discipline and ability to get on base via the walk. The minor league numbers show that pretty clearly. Plus he plays a corner position and it is harder to replace production at first than it is in the outfield.

Could it change as Bruce grows into himself, yup, and I hope it does. Right now I think Votto could put up similar numbers to David Wright if given the support around him, while I think Bruce projects to a Jermaine Dye type of player.

BlastFurnace
04-12-2009, 07:48 PM
I just wanted to assure everyone that just because Jay's BB/K ratio was terrible in the minors, there's no reason to worry about at the Big Show.

OH, he just K'd again and is 0-2 with 2 Ks today.

Don't worry though, those numbers will improve as we were told by numerous Reds fans.

Wasn't there someone last year who wanted to compare him to Ted Williams? Wonder how that comparison looks now.

Ghosts of 1990
04-12-2009, 08:16 PM
Wasn't there someone last year who wanted to compare him to Ted Williams? Wonder how that comparison looks now.

Well he could end up being Ted Williams.... that's what is exciting about it.

He's like a good week away from people declaring that again. So hold it against me but I'm high on the guy when things are going bad just as I am when things are going good.

Jerome
04-12-2009, 08:32 PM
Jay's natural hitting ability always seem to make up for the fact that he never has had a very good eye. Unfortunately in the first week of the season with the hitting gone, his bad eye is being exposed. We all know he is pressing. That's pretty obvious. It will only be a matter of time before he starts to connect. I have to say, even when he misses that stroke looks good. I just wish he had more plate awareness like Votto, Dickerson, hell even Encarnacion. He knows he isn't going back down to the minors ever again, so just relax man.

http://jeromesredscare.blogspot.com

REDblooded
04-12-2009, 08:36 PM
Here's what really irks me about this whole piling on Jay Bruce thing...

The kid is in a mini-slump to start the season AT THE PLATE...

At the same time, outside of slipping on wet grass once, he's also played stellar defense, and erased two runs with his arm in right. Add to that his hustle play on the hit to third today, and here's a kid who clearly can bring a lot more than just batting power to the table, yet half the fans on this board would probably welcome a Bruce for Bonaficio deal at this point with open arms...

Get a grip, and a clue... Hopefully you can find both at the same store.

Eric_the_Red
04-12-2009, 08:48 PM
Well he could end up being Ted Williams.... that's what is exciting about it.


Or Austin Kearns. Nobody knows, one way or the other.

What year was it that Kearns had 50+ RBI by sometime in June? The point being, it is WAY too early to tell about Bruce's future. The tools are there but it remains to be seen whether or not Bruce will put it all together and become the player some hope he will be.

I hope he does. I also hope he wasn't called up too soon with too much expectation early on.

Ghosts of 1990
04-12-2009, 09:05 PM
It has been said that you don't see what a big league hitter can do until they have around 1000 at bats under their belt. The sooner you can get them to that amount the comfort and adjustments are there. About 1% of guys in the league can dominate from day 1, otherwise there is a learning curve.

In between now and those 1000 at bats, he's special enough we'll see fireworks a plenty.

mlh1981
04-12-2009, 09:40 PM
He's what, 22 year old? He's a pup. Lots of learning/developing left in him.

Mutaman
04-12-2009, 09:50 PM
Wasn't there someone last year who wanted to compare him to Ted Williams? Wonder how that comparison looks now.


Bruce runs faster than Williams did, has a better arm than Williams had, and is much better defensively than Williams.

BlastFurnace
04-12-2009, 09:53 PM
Bruce runs faster than Williams did, has a better arm than Williams had, and is much better defensively than Williams.

I'm sure that there were others as well...but that certainly didn't put them in the same league as Ted.

We will see what Bruce ends up being, but right now, he isn't even in Josh Hamilton's league...let alone Ted Williams.

TheBigLebowski
04-12-2009, 10:43 PM
This thread is an absolute embarrassment. Let's keep this thing close to the top so Jay can make certain people look silly.

Shawn_RedsFan
04-12-2009, 10:53 PM
This is getting really really old....you guys are reds fans?? seriously?? please change your favorite team to those guys that go 162-0 then you will have nothing to complain about because they will be PERFECT

Ghosts of 1990
04-13-2009, 12:01 AM
This thread is an absolute embarrassment. Let's keep this thing close to the top so Jay can make certain people look silly.

Yeah I don't get it either. I do think to a degree people are expecting superhuman things from Bruce and if they weren't he'd blend in a little more.... but it's partly the hype that he entered with, the torrid start and having just a good enough opening act that he left everyone clamoring for more and for him to take that next step.

If we're patient and have faith I think the return will be big on him.

DTCromer
04-13-2009, 12:07 AM
Yeah I don't get it either. I do think to a degree people are expecting superhuman things from Bruce and if they weren't he'd blend in a little more.... but it's partly the hype that he entered with, the torrid start and having just a good enough opening act that he left everyone clamoring for more and for him to take that next step.

If we're patient and have faith I think the return will be big on him.

No, I just don't think he's as good as people think he will be. His patience at the plate is keeping him from being "great." He'll be "good," but not "great."

I think a lot of you are missing the point of this thread.

Ghosts of 1990
04-13-2009, 12:20 AM
No, I just don't think he's as good as people think he will be. His patience at the plate is keeping him from being "great." He'll be "good," but not "great."

I think a lot of you are missing the point of this thread.

He isn't as good YET as he is expected to be, that is a given.

might not be great until he is 24 or 25..... Look at Grady Sizemore's numbers up until last year (and he's yet to hit .300 but is still a 'great' player).

Jay Bruce will have a Larry Walker type career. Which will put him in the "Great" category. He is going to be a legit stud.

Eric_the_Red
04-13-2009, 06:51 AM
Sizemore
2004 (age 22)
138 AB, 14 BB, 34 K, .246, .333
2005 (age 23)
640 AB, 52 BB, 132 K, .289. .348
2006 (age 24)
655 AB, 78 BB, 153 K, .290, .375

Bruce
2008 (age 21)
413 AB, 33 BB, 110 K, .254, .314

Just for comparison, as Sizemore keeps getting brought up. So, Bruce could develop and turn into an All-Star like Sizemore, or you could not develop and always be a what-if. Nobody knows yet, but I think by the middle of next season we can start to speculate. Right now it is just too early.

But let's please stay away from the Ted Williams comparisons. That will just make people look silly.

schmidty622
04-13-2009, 08:40 AM
This thread is an absolute embarrassment. Let's keep this thing close to the top so Jay can make certain people look silly.

I don't know how pointing out that a young player is still learning is going to make me feel silly. I bet you can't find one time, in any thread, where it has been said that Bruce needs to sit or go down.

This is a Reds message board, where we discuss the Reds, for better or worse. When Taveras or Gonzo play poorly people hop right on here and trash them into the ground. Are we just supposed to ignore Bruce's play because hes OMGZZZ JAY BRUCEZZ? No. Just like any Reds player, when he plays poorly we discuss it. When he plays well, I'll be on here singing his praises.

swaisuc
04-13-2009, 09:39 AM
No, I just don't think he's as good as people think he will be. His patience at the plate is keeping him from being "great." He'll be "good," but not "great."

I think a lot of you are missing the point of this thread.

I agree with this point, but not your conclusion. His lack of patience is making his results mediocre right now (through 5 games). I don't think thats in question. You lose me when you decided that this somehow means that he WILL only be good. You seem to be projecting out that he will show no improvement in this area and as a result his ceiling is limited. I think improvement in his patience is exactly the way that Jay Bruce is going to go from good to great. I'd be more scared if we had a good player with no real idea how we could expect him to get better. With Jay, its pretty clear.

bgwilly31
04-13-2009, 11:02 AM
Biggest thing that frustrates me with Bruce is; When he first came up and that great first couple of weeks.
His style of hitting was absolutely perfect.

He was patient, Had a great eye ATP, and cut down his swing when he needed to make contact.

Than something snapped and really has never come back.

Now he is the exact opposite of all of those things. :rolleyes: who's coaching this kid. Its painfully obvious what he's doing wrong.

Bumstead
04-13-2009, 12:21 PM
The first couple of weeks when MLB pitchers had never seen him, he was great...well, now they have a scouting report that they didn't really have then (certainly a more thorough scouting report). He's young enough to make the adjustments necessary to become a great player. It's way too early to say with any confidence whether he will be great or just good or even a complete flop (unlikely). I am optimistic that he is going to be really good down the road; this year could be a tough one for him though; lots of adjustments to learn.

Bum

xavr1
04-13-2009, 01:58 PM
Bruce will be fine. He is trying to do too much to help the team win. Paul Daughtery wrote a nice article on this in today's Enquirer. Couple deep breaths and realize that he doesnt need to win the game on every swing.

Roush's socks
04-13-2009, 04:12 PM
Bruce has hit some balls hard that were outs. I don't think he's off to as bad a start as it looks. EE is the one who hasn't hit the ball hard and has relied on walking to remain productive. (which at least is something)

If we're judging players by their first games, then is Taveras going to get some cred?

goreds2
04-13-2009, 09:48 PM
Nice HR by Bruce tonight. Plus, he kept the big inning alive by being hit by a pitch.

Ghosts of 1990
04-13-2009, 09:59 PM
He's on the board.

I'm glad he isn't hurt by the HBP.... fingers crossed.

xavr1
04-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Saw him nursing it while on first base, but Im sure hes ok. Its his glove hand and I feel like it would take a very serious pain to keep him out of the lineup.

Ghosts of 1990
04-15-2009, 07:43 AM
Saw him nursing it while on first base, but Im sure hes ok. Its his glove hand and I feel like it would take a very serious pain to keep him out of the lineup.

He's lucky it didn't break a bone in the hand. Do you remember when a ball hit Austin Kearns in the hand?

REDblooded
04-26-2009, 09:12 PM
tee hee.... OP.

PhillipsHead
04-27-2009, 01:26 AM
Now this production is more like it...