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Reds Fanatic
04-13-2009, 07:19 PM
Lineups from Fay:


Reds:

Willy Taveras cf
Chris Dickerson lf
Joey Votto 1b
Brandon Phillips 2b
Jay Bruce rf
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Ramon Hernandez c
Alex Gonzalez ss
RHP Edinson Volquez

Brewers:

Rickie Weeks 2b
Cokey Hart rf
Ryan Braun lf
Prince Fielder 1b
JJ Hardy ss
Mike Cameron cf
Bill Hall 3b
Jason Kendall c
RHP Yovani Gallardo

Only three Reds have faced Gallardo. Encarnacion and Phillips are 1-for-6; Votto is 0-for-3.

Scrap Irony
04-13-2009, 09:03 PM
Brewers may have less obp on the top two spots than Cincinnati, with Weeks, Hart, and Braun.

Too, what happened to the whole Kendall hitting ninth thing?

Red in Chicago
04-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Brewers may have less obp on the top two spots than Cincinnati, with Weeks, Hart, and Braun.

Too, what happened to the whole Kendall hitting ninth thing?

that was tony larussa, i mean ned yost's idea

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 09:09 PM
Wily Taveras makes an out to lead the game off -- I'm *shocked* ;)

Gotta be more patient against this guy.

nate
04-13-2009, 09:10 PM
Chat: it's open

reds44
04-13-2009, 09:10 PM
Dickerson just missed that.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:11 PM
Quick 1-2-3 inning by Gallardo. The Reds need to be patient and make Gallardo throw some pitches. The Brewers bullpen is nothing special.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:13 PM
Quick 1-2-3 inning by Gallardo. The Reds need to be patient and make Gallardo throw some pitches. The Brewers bullpen is nothing special.

Exactly 8 pitches, Edinson will have that many in the 1st 2 batters.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:15 PM
Crappy pitch calling there. Volquez had Weeks 0-2 and he threw two straight curveballs, which is Volquez's third best pitch. Weeks singled of course. Don't get cute. Throw your fastball or changeup there.

BCubb2003
04-13-2009, 09:16 PM
Wily Taveras makes an out to lead the game off


Wily Mo Taveras or Wile E. Taveras?

Sorry. Carry on.

11larkin11
04-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Im not gonna get mad about the Reds not takin pitches there, Dickerson and Votto both hit the ball right on the button

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:17 PM
This is going to be a loooong game.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:19 PM
Now Volquez does the impossible: walks Corey Hart. Sheesh.

They need to stop getting cute. Throw the changeup/fastball and just use the curve sparingly as a show me pitch.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 09:23 PM
Really, I don't think Edinson could've made that play even if he'd hustled, given the way he falls off the mound on his delivery. I think you just have to credit Fielder for really busting it down the line.

reds44
04-13-2009, 09:23 PM
Pitching and defense folks.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:24 PM
What's that? Four or five botched double plays in a week?

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:24 PM
Really, I don't think Edinson could've made that play even if he'd hustled, given the way he falls off the mound on his delivery. I think you just have to credit Fielder for really busting it down the line.

Joey wasn't too happy about it if you read his lips. "....Get your rump over here"! But with other words.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 09:25 PM
I think you just have to credit Fielder for really busting it down the line.

Does he roll like an armidillo?

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:26 PM
Joey wasn't too happy about it if you read his lips. "....Get your *** over here"!

I'll say it again: undisciplined and disorganized. No consequences for poor performance.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 09:26 PM
This is going to be a loooong game.

I believe you said that yesterday......and we know how that turned out.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 09:26 PM
I'll say it again: undisciplined and disorganized. No consequences for poor performance.

windsprints unil they puke!

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:28 PM
windsprints unil they puke!

I don't normally blame poor performance on stuff like lack of discipline, but these pitchers are better than their current performance.

remdog
04-13-2009, 09:29 PM
Fielder did the same thing yesterday against the Cubs. The guy may be big but he busts his butt on every trip down the line and, sometimes, he gets there a bit quicker than you think he might.

Rem

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Bruce homers! Tie game.

11larkin11
04-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Jay Bruce. Brewer Killer.

Lets see if he can match Bill Hall. Reds Killer.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Nice Jack by Bruce! FSN's radar gun off again?

reds44
04-13-2009, 09:31 PM
Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuce

Raisor
04-13-2009, 09:31 PM
Fielder did the same thing yesterday against the Cubs. The guy may be big but he busts his butt on every trip down the line and, sometimes, he gets there a bit quicker than you think he might.

Rem

Lady, I'm not an athlete, I'm a ballplayer"-John Kruk.

11larkin11
04-13-2009, 09:32 PM
Edwin walks. Again.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:32 PM
EdE falls behind 0-2 and comes back to the work a walk. Phillips had a nice atbat too.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:33 PM
Bruce has tremendous Drew-like power. It's just a matter of time before he explodes. Nice AB by Ed.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:35 PM
Gallardo has thrown six straight balls, so what does Hernandez do? He swung at the next pitch and GIDP. 1-1 after 1 1/2.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 09:36 PM
Nice Jack by Bruce! FSN's radar gun off again?

I'll tell you what, if their radar gun isn't off, their sound will be, or their picture will be, or they'll have the wrong number of outs up, or the wrong count up.... it's very annoying. I'd almost rather just listen to the game on the radio if I'm being completely honest.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 09:36 PM
We've only got 1 hit so far, but we're really hitting the ball hard off Gallardo. It's only a matter of time before we really break out against him I think.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 09:36 PM
Gallardo has thrown six straight balls, so what does Hernandez do? He swung at the next pitch and GIDP. 1-1 after 1 1/2.

You don't walk off the island of Venezuela!

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:36 PM
Gallardo has thrown six straight balls, so what does Hernandez do? He swung at the next pitch and GIDP. 1-1 after 1 1/2.

I agree I have not been impressed by him, he has had some poor PA's early on. Learning a new league or not is not an excuse for consistenly swinging at anything just because it's close (especially ahead in the count).

HokieRed
04-13-2009, 09:37 PM
Sir Charles, Have you looked at what the Cardinals' rotation has been doing? No way they're going to be 5th.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 09:38 PM
Wily Mo Taveras or Wile E. Taveras?

Sorry. Carry on.

I know everybody wants him to be the newest whipping boy here, but overall, he's been pretty darned good so far.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 09:39 PM
Gallardo has thrown six straight balls, so what does Hernandez do? He swung at the next pitch and GIDP. 1-1 after 1 1/2.


I think Prince swung at a 3-0 pitch and almost hit into an inning ending DP.

Of course, no one will confuse Fielder with Hernandez.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:39 PM
Volquez again gets ahead 1-2 on the lead off hitter, then throws two straight curves which results in a single. How long will it take Hernandez to realize that the fastball/changeup is Volquez's strikeout pitch?

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 09:40 PM
Sir Charles, Have you looked at what the Cardinals' rotation has been doing? No way they're going to be 5th.

Yeah, I have. Carpenter's outing surprised me. Heck, I'm sure it surprised HIM too. Loshe...he's hot and cold...he's not THAT good. They'll come back down to earth. I actually think they'll CRASH back down to earth.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 09:40 PM
I know everybody wants him to be the newest whipping boy here, but overall, he's been pretty darned good so far.

if dude can keep up the doubles and triples pace, while avg over 360, he'll be the free agent signing of the year.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:41 PM
Volquez again gets ahead 1-2 on the lead off hitter, then throws two straight curves which results in a single. How long will it take Hernandez to realize that the fastball/changeup is Volquez's strikeout pitch?

Chris says that was a change-up that Cameron got a single on. Did look more like the change too me as well.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 09:41 PM
Not a bad suggestion by the Cowboy. Let Hanigan catch Edinson. He was flat out solid pitching to him during ST. It might be worth a shot. Because this does NOT look like Volquez so far.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Volquez: everything up, up, up.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Chris says that was a change-up that Cameron got a single on.

Changeups don't move like that.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Hall had a .556 OPS vs. RH pitchers last year, but of course he can hit any Red.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Not a bad suggestion by the Cowboy. Let Hanigan catch Edinson. He was flat out solid pitching to him during ST. It might be worth a shot. Because this does NOT look like Volquez so far.

I'm in favor of that.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 09:42 PM
Volquez is just maddening to watch so far this year.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:43 PM
Changeups don't move like that.

I didn't see much movement to that one myself, but maybe I didn't get a great look at it.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 09:44 PM
Edinson isn't fooling anyone tonight. I thought he'd have a regression this year, but this is something even I wasn't expecting.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:45 PM
Volquez is in very serious trouble as a major leaguer.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:46 PM
He has zero notion of where the ball is going or how to change his approach. We may see Bailey before long.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:46 PM
Volquez is in very serious trouble as a major leaguer.

LOL.

So is Tim Lincecum I guess.

I remember last year when you was ready to put Volquez in the bullpen after one start or two starts.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:47 PM
Volquez is hardly throwing the changeup. Who in the world is calling pitches?

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:48 PM
LOL.

So is Tim Lincecum I guess.

I remember last year when you was ready to put Volquez in the bullpen after one start or two starts.

Volquez? No.

Cueto, yes. Still feel that way.

Lincecum could be in trouble as well. Most pitchers fail, even ones with great stuff; baseball is unforgiving.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 09:48 PM
Volquez is hardly throwing the changeup. Who in the world is calling pitches?

The Dude.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 09:48 PM
That was the first time I've seen him be aggressive today. His K's are surprisingly absent so far this year.

Balk?

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 09:49 PM
Volquez is in very serious trouble as a major leaguer.

Come on FCB -- he is in no more danger than Jay Bruce was on his slow start. It's a game of adjustments, time for Volquez to adjust to the way the league is hitting against him.

To say his CAREER is in trouble is the height of hyperbole at this point.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:49 PM
Volquez? No.

Cueto, yes. Still feel that way.

Lincecum could be in trouble as well. Most pitchers fail, even ones with great stuff; baseball is unforgiving.

Yes, you were ready to send Volquez to the bullpen or minors after just a few starts last year.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:50 PM
Yes, you were ready to send Volquez to the bullpen or minors after just a few starts.

No I wasn't. It was Cueto.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 09:50 PM
I don't really think you can make excuses for Volquez. He's just not locating his pitches. He's just been awful so far. And as I type this, Hart goes yard.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
No I wasn't. It was Cueto.

No, it was Volquez. Do you really want me to look it up?;)

Joseph
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
UGLY.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
No I wasn't. It was Cueto.

You're so certain that most Reds will fail that I sometimes forget who is who. ;)

And, as I type this, Volquez digs the hole deeper.

reds44
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
Pitching and defense.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 09:51 PM
3 run shot. 5-1 Brewers. He just looks lost on the mound right now. No control of where his pitches are going to go. Looks like a lack of confidence to me.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:52 PM
No, it was Volquez. Do you really want me to look it up?

Absolutely. Volquez didn't struggle last season.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:52 PM
Another change on a 2 strike count, hammered (or often layed off).

Tony Cloninger
04-13-2009, 09:52 PM
So there was the changeup.......and there went the changeup. Bad Location.

Forget what pitches are being called......it is bad location.

So now can we start blaming the WBC?

Red in Chicago
04-13-2009, 09:53 PM
No, it was Volquez. Do you really want me to look it up?

Do we really need to get into this? Please move on or take it private.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 09:53 PM
Another change on a 2 strike count, hammered (or often layed off).

Hitters are waiting on the change -- the book on Volquez seems to be that he won't throw a fastball in the zone on a 2-strike count.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 09:53 PM
[QUOTE=Falls City Beer;1835665]Volquez? No.

Cueto, yes. Still feel that way.

/QUOTE]

You were ready to put Cueto in the bullpen after 1-2 starts last year?

Do you even remember his first start?

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:54 PM
Hitters are waiting on the change -- the book on Volquez seems to be that he won't throw a fastball in the zone on a 2-strike count.

Correct and the curve he cannot locate most of the time, so if it's in the zone it's a change.

reds44
04-13-2009, 09:55 PM
Edinson pitching like Edinson did in Texas.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:55 PM
Edinson pitching like Edinson did in Texas.

Edinson pitching like a Red. Don't kid yourself.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 09:56 PM
Edinson pitching like a Red. Don't kid yourself.


Did he pitch like a Red last year?

paintmered
04-13-2009, 09:56 PM
Volquez is in very serious trouble as a major leaguer.

You can stop with the hyperbole any time now.

reds44
04-13-2009, 09:56 PM
FCB, I have a hard time taking anything you say with merit considering you follow the games on gametracker.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 09:58 PM
Fielder 2-2 count is behind on the FB (sitting on the change?) and Edinson throws the change (a good one mind you) next but keeps it low and Fielder goes fishing.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 09:58 PM
You can stop with the hyperbole any time now.

You think he's going to be okay? With his history of control problems? And this organization's inability to rectify pitching problems?

HokieRed
04-13-2009, 09:59 PM
Anybody have a comparison of Volquez's first and second halves last year? I think it's way too early to be critical of him, or even worry about him much, but he did, as I remember, have a lot weaker second half than first last year. We're going to have to start facing the reality that he's a long way from the pitcher many RZers thought he was going to be.

paintmered
04-13-2009, 09:59 PM
You think he's going to be okay? With his history of control problems? And this organization's inability to rectify pitching problems?

Tonight, no. But I think he'll be fine as a major league pitcher.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:00 PM
Anybody have a comparison of Volquez's first and second halves last year? I think it's way too early to be critical of him, or even worry about him much, but he did, as I remember, have a lot weaker second half than first last year. We're going to have to start facing the reality that he's a long way from the pitcher many RZers thought he was going to be.

Other teams see pitchers improve very rapidly. The Reds have to wait interminably?

He's not getting younger.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:00 PM
Guys, seriously, without trying to come off as a jerk, back and forth arguments such as this REALLY bring down the quality of the game threads. It's reserved as a privelege for ORG, and I'm not sure why, because it often times resorts to petty arguing that has nothing to do with the game.

PLEASE feel free to rip yourselves to shreds in PMs. I like all of you, and I'm not trying to offend anyone. But the Reds losing is nothing new, we should be able to watch them do so without bickering like middle schoolers.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Anybody have a comparison of Volquez's first and second halves last year? I think it's way too early to be critical of him, or even worry about him much, but he did, as I remember, have a lot weaker second half than first last year. We're going to have to start facing the reality that he's a long way from the pitcher many RZers thought he was going to be.

I think he's fine mostly. He is getting a lot of guys to 2 strikes quickly which is good news and means his stuff and location normally isn't bad, but he needs to do something better/different with 2 strikes now.

paintmered
04-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Other teams see pitchers improve very rapidly. The Reds have to wait interminably?

He's not getting younger.

Start a thread on it if you want to discuss the development of EV. But don't derail this game thread with your musings.

alloverjr
04-13-2009, 10:01 PM
I blame Hernandez...and Gonzalez.

On to 24.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:03 PM
Guys, seriously, without trying to come off as a jerk, back and forth arguments such as this REALLY bring down the quality of the game threads. It's reserved as a privelege for ORG, and I'm not sure why, because it often times resorts to petty arguing that has nothing to do with the game.

PLEASE feel free to rip yourselves to shreds in PMs. I like all of you, and I'm not trying to offend anyone. But the Reds losing is nothing new, we should be able to watch them do so without bickering like middle schoolers.

I like the 40 posts per game thread about how MLB tv or satellite isn't showing the game.

It's topical. The Reds sucking is topical, no? He's pitching, no?

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:05 PM
I blame Hernandez...and Gonzalez.

On to 24.

Even 24 is lame this season.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:06 PM
Other teams see pitchers improve very rapidly. The Reds have to wait interminably?

He's not getting younger.


He's 26.

Is any pitcher getting younger?

And he improved more last year than most pitchers in baseball.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:06 PM
Even 24 is lame this season.

LOL. You bitter, bitter man! ;):p:

paintmered
04-13-2009, 10:06 PM
I like the 40 posts per game thread about how MLB tv or satellite isn't showing the game.

It's topical. The Reds sucking is topical, no? He's pitching, no?

Or you could talk about what's going on in the game and leave the state of the organization stuff to the other side of the board. It's not a hard concept.

Tony Cloninger
04-13-2009, 10:07 PM
HEY! Taveras worked the count and took a walk. Rejoice and be happy.

All is well. Remain calm.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:07 PM
He's 26.

Is any pitcher getting younger?

I think the Rockies have this guy:

http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/mork.jpg

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:08 PM
HEY! Taveras worked the count and took a walk. Rejoice and be happy.

All is well. Remain calm.

Taveras es en fuego.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:09 PM
This just in: Dickerson has a great eye at the plate. He's had some fantastic ABs so far this season.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:09 PM
HEY! Taveras worked the count and took a walk. Rejoice and be happy.

All is well. Remain calm.

Something he's been doing ever since he put on a Reds cap. ST, WBC and the first week. I haven't seen ANYTHING to complain about with Taveras so far. (well, his baserunning was "iffy" during ST, but that's nitpicking)

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:09 PM
I think the Rockies have this guy:

http://www.grudge-match.com/Images/mork.jpg



http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/a9cb993228aec430

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:09 PM
Taveras es en fuego?

Dare you say!

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:10 PM
Vottomatic! Single up the middle scores Taveras.

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:11 PM
Votto nearly killed Gallardo.

5-2

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:11 PM
Votto still limping around I see.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:11 PM
After 2 walks Votto swings at the first pitch......

Typical Reds.

Stormy
04-13-2009, 10:11 PM
No I wasn't. It was Cueto.

No, you had Volquez in the bullpen by May of last year, and Cueto demoted. I do agree with your sentiments about the lack of discipline though, and this staff vastly underachieving early this year. It's a very disturbing trend.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:11 PM
Gallardo is struggling to throw strikes too.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:13 PM
After 2 walks Votto swings at the first pitch......

Typical Reds.

Votto has the green light whenever he wants to swing as far as I'm concerned. He got a hanging breaking ball -- you gotta put that pitch into play for a base hit.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:13 PM
After 2 walks Votto swings at the first pitch......

Typical Reds.

That's what you do with a meatball.

dougdirt
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
How impressive has Brandon Phillips plate discipline this year?

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
Brandon draws another walk. Bruce up with the bases jacked and 2 outs.

TheBurn
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
Loaded for Bruce!

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
Gallardo is, so far, more effective than Volquez tonight, but they both are suffering from the same problem common to young pitchers -- overthrowing.

They both seem to be trying to pitch a no-hitter with 25 strikeouts. The result is no control over the fastball.

Then, when they need a strike, they throw something offspeed and get clobbered.

Harang ought to sit with Volquez and Cueto and tell them how to pitch within yourself and not overthrow. Harang does it very well.

nate
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
How impressive has Brandon Phillips plate discipline this year?

Very nice!

Red in Chicago
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
Three walks in an inning, you gotta score more than once..come on!!!

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
This Reds team shows flashes at the plate of what made some of those mid-2000s offenses so much fun to watch: great plate discipline, working the count and putting stress on opposing pitchers with runners on base and deep counts.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:14 PM
How impressive has Brandon Phillips plate discipline this year?

A lot better, it's very encouraging. I can't wait for Bruce to settle downa bit also.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:15 PM
If nothing else, the Reds plate discipline has been flat out amazing so far this year. Not just one or two of them...nearly ALL of them.

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:16 PM
If nothing else, the Reds plate discipline has been flat out amazing so far this year. Not just one or two of them...nearly ALL of them.

That's great, except the games take all night!

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:16 PM
Bruce gets hit. Hopefully he's ok. Reds pull within two.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
Ech...that's earning your 1 RBI the hard way.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
HBP. RBI and the bases still loaded for Edwin.

TheBurn
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
JB HBP... CD scores

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
GRAND SLAM!!!!

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
EE grand salami to deep left!

Red in Chicago
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
EE knocked the crap outta that one...holy cow!!!!

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
Mercy -- that's about as no-doubt as I've seen in a LONG time.

Edwin just CRUSHED that!

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:17 PM
EDWIN!!!!!!!!

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
BP only had 39 walks total last year. He's "on pace" for 135.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
Gallardo is, so far, more effective than Volquez tonight, but they both are suffering from the same problem common to young pitchers -- overthrowing.




That's old news now.....

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
Edwin is the man! Grand Slam!

BCubb2003
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
Edwin showed no patience in that at-bat.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
First pitch swinging a BOMB by Edwin. 7-5 Redlegs. I TOLD you we were gonna bust loose on Gallardo. :O)

TheBurn
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
EE SALAMI !!! :beerme:

kbrake
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
Thats amazing.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
:thumbup:

YAY!!!!!!!

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:18 PM
Edwin is muy macho.

KoryMac5
04-13-2009, 10:19 PM
To me it seems more hitters are laying off the change up this year with Edison. It may be time for a visit from Mario.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:19 PM
When hittiers swing on the first pitch after a pitcher shows bad control..... you've seen some examples as to why they do so......

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:19 PM
Edwin showed no patience in that at-bat.

LOL. Now THAT'S some lack of patience I can deal with. Hehe.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:19 PM
"protocol" mentioned on 24, eveyone take a drink!

RedsManRick
04-13-2009, 10:19 PM
Dickerson, Edwin and Votto need to be in order.

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:19 PM
EE with a grand salami. Good for him.

But it's amazing to me how these two very good young pitchers are suffering from the same problem. Gallardo was overthrowing, couldn't control his pitches, so he grooves one to EE.

Volquez just needs to calm down and -- ready for this -- pitch to contact a little bit. Try not to over do it. Where's the Dan O regime when you need it?

Tony Cloninger
04-13-2009, 10:20 PM
WELL....so far the 2 guys who swing at the 1st pitch after walks and woldness....have come through.

Votto and EE were expecting meatballs and they got them.

KC61......a few years back when Lidle was here....the GM or Narron said something about how they should have the CG...86 pitch or so...game vs SD shown to all the pitchers in the organization. I remember people here and there scoffing a bit about it....but it was a great idea. I could care less if these guys SO only 4-5 per game......if it keeps them throwing close to or a little over 100 per game and get's them into the 8th or 9th innings...I am all for it.

nate
04-13-2009, 10:21 PM
Dickerson, Edwin and Votto need to be in order.

I believe that you're not whistling "Dixie."

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:21 PM
Nice for EE to get his first XBH and RBIs.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:21 PM
When hittiers swing on the first pitch after a pitcher shows bad control..... you've seen some examples as to why they do so......

IMO that's the whole point to having great discipline to get a quality pitch. Once they do swing away.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:21 PM
And ESPN was billing this game as a pitchers duel. LOL.

HokieRed
04-13-2009, 10:21 PM
It's what young pitchers do. That's why it requires patience.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:21 PM
This offense has been fun. On the flip side of things. Like the new look a lot.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:22 PM
Hopefully someone shouted in Volquez's face: quite screwing around and just pitch.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:23 PM
Hopefully someone shouted in Volquez's face: quite screwing around and just pitch.

Do they have the personnel to teach him to throw strikes when he can't?

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:23 PM
Hopefully the bullpen is ready just in case.

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:25 PM
KC61......a few years back when Lidle was here....the GM or Narron said something about how they should have the CG...86 pitch or so...game vs SD shown to all the pitchers in the organization. I remember people here and there scoffing a bit about it....but it was a great idea. I could care less if these guys SO only 4-5 per game......if it keeps them throwing close to or a little over 100 per game and get's them into the 8th or 9th innings...I am all for it.

And the funny part is, that if Volquez would pitch that way, he would get his share of Ks.

It usually comes withe experience. Harang and Arroyo may get blasted sometimes, but they don't pitch like this, almost never.

Better inning for Volquez there, he let them hit it and got them one two three.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:25 PM
Do they have the personnel to teach him to throw strikes when he can't?

Greg Maddux has gone on record as saying that Dick Pole is the best pitching coach he's ever had.

So..................

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:25 PM
1-2-3 inning for Volquez

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:25 PM
1-2-3 for Edinson. Pitching to contact and not messing around with the corners. THERE ya go.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:25 PM
Rally started with a Taveras walk. Some folks are choking back rage reactions. Lol.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:26 PM
Nice glovework by Gonzo there, his hands Castro-Esque! :D

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:26 PM
Do they have the personnel to teach him to throw strikes when he can't?

Kid can throw strikes when he concentrates on keeping his mechanics straight and focuses on the task at hand.

Last season was evidence enough of that -- you can fluke your way through a season of pitching, but you can't fluke your way to those kinds of numbers without having some quality talent.

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:26 PM
Do they have the personnel to teach him to throw strikes when he can't?


Maybe the Reds should go out and get that pitching coach they had last year who helped Volquez make the all-star team. Wasn't his name Pole. . . .

Patrick Bateman
04-13-2009, 10:26 PM
Rally started with a Taveras walk. Some folks are choking back rage reactions. Lol.

He's had a surprisingly nice plate approach so far.... Phillips too. If it keeps up, I wont be unhappy with him in the leadoff spot.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:27 PM
Rally started with a Taveras walk. Some folks are choking back rage reactions. Lol.

Not me. I would love nothing more than to see Taveras develop into a .750 OPS CFer.

Hopefully Volquez settles down and shuts the Brewers down.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:27 PM
Rally started with a Taveras walk. Some folks are choking back rage reactions. Lol.


Taveras es en fuego.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:28 PM
Not me. I would love nothing more than to see Taveras develop into a .750 OPS CFer.

Hopefully Volquez settles down and shuts the Brewers down.

I see no reason why the guy in age-prime years can't post a .750 OPS.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:28 PM
IMO that's the whole point to having great discipline to get a quality pitch. Once they do swing away.


Yet, when batters do that, and hit it hard (and make an out) they often get critized here.....

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:28 PM
Yeah, the only problem I have with the Reds offense is the RH portion of the LF platoon, and the black hole that is the bottom 3 of the order.

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:29 PM
Answer to trivia question:
Bobcats and Texans

SMcGavin
04-13-2009, 10:29 PM
How impressive has Brandon Phillips plate discipline this year?

With the count at 1-0 he got a slider low and away from the RHP... and he let it go. It was beautiful. If he keeps doing that, it goes a long way towards solving his problems vs righties.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:29 PM
AntiDepressants+Reds leading=Manic

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:30 PM
Yeah, the only problem I have with the Reds offense is the RH portion of the LF platoon, and the black hole that is the bottom 3 of the order.

Gonzalez is really the only black hole in the lineup. And Hairston.

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:30 PM
Answer to trivia question:
Bobcats and Texans


"Name two things that eat raw meat?"

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:31 PM
Yeah, the only problem I have with the Reds offense is the RH portion of the LF platoon, and the black hole that is the bottom 3 of the order.

I think it might be time to see how well Dickerson can play against some of the less-overpowering LHPs.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:31 PM
2 outs, no one on base, Taveras AB.

We have them right were we want to.......

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:32 PM
Gonzalez is really the only black hole in the lineup. And Hairston.

It's very early, but Hernandez looks lost at the plate right now.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:33 PM
I think it might be time to see how well Dickerson can play against some of the less-overpowering LHPs.

It also might be time to give Paul Janish some playing time as well. He was swinging the bat VERY well in ST. The average might not have been there, but I was impressed with the strides he made at the plate.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:33 PM
It's very early, but Hernandez looks lost at the plate right now.

History says he'll get it together to some extent. He's not a great hitter, but unless he's injured, he should OPS .750.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:33 PM
It's very early, but Hernandez looks lost at the plate right now.


Small sample sizes are what baseball is all about.

He's a verteran who generally doesn't look lost at the plate.

He eventually won't.

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:34 PM
I think it might be time to see how well Dickerson can play against some of the less-overpowering LHPs.
I wouldn't be against it, but they just need to keep a close eye on him.

Hell, I wouldn't mind seeing McDonald continue to get ABs until he remembers he is bad (did I just say that?).

mbgrayson
04-13-2009, 10:34 PM
Midway through the 4th and Gallardo is at 84 pitches, Volquez is at 63 pitches after three. Bullpens will get some work tonight.

Stormy
04-13-2009, 10:34 PM
Dickerson, Edwin and Votto need to be in order.

That would be my #1-3 versus RHP. Great job by Edwin, by the way.

11larkin11
04-13-2009, 10:35 PM
Hernandez has hit some hard balls (not tonight) but right at people. I think he'll be fine. Gonzalez, however, is pressing very very badly. You can tell every AB that he wants that first hit so bad and is getting mad at himself after every out.

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:35 PM
Edinson needs to mow through 8-9-1

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:36 PM
Or not.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:36 PM
I'd rather see the Reds pitch to Babe Ruth in his prime than to see them pitch to Bill Hall or Jason Kendall.

Patrick Bateman
04-13-2009, 10:36 PM
With the count at 1-0 he got a slider low and away from the RHP... and he let it go. It was beautiful. If he keeps doing that, it goes a long way towards solving his problems vs righties.

I was telling people in the offseason that Phillips' problem really only boils down to one my main thing, that is swinging at that low and away breaking pitch.

He let's that go, he's going to get better counts and more opportunities to swing at pitches he's proven he can hit. He has a chance to be an elite 2nd sacker if he can continue the early trend.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:36 PM
Singles back to back by Kendall and Gallardo (who is no slouch with the stick btw)

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
If I'm the O, I'm lashing Edinson to a bed and thumping him with soap, a la Full Metal Jacket.

Stormy
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
He's had a surprisingly nice plate approach so far.... Phillips too. If it keeps up, I wont be unhappy with him in the leadoff spot.

Ditto.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
Masset warming in the pen

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
Pull him now.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
Yet, when batters do that, and hit it hard (and make an out) they often get critized here.....

True, but if they are hitting it on the screws right at people most give them the benefit of the doubt.

HeatherC1212
04-13-2009, 10:37 PM
It figures that Edwin and Jay both start this week out strong offensively right when I go ahead and bench them both on my fantasy team, LOL :laugh: :rolleyes:

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:38 PM
Volquez drills Weeks in the grill.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:38 PM
Yikes. HBP in the face for Weeks from what Cowboy is saying.

guttle11
04-13-2009, 10:38 PM
That's a foul ball. I hope he's ok, but it clearly hit the bat first.

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:38 PM
Did that hit the bat?

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Volquez needs to come out of the game. This is why the Reds have Massett.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Dusty will probably leave him so he can qualify for the win. I'd pull him now before we're down four runs.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Dang, he stays in the game. I thought he was gonna be pulled for sure after that. Yikes.

On the flipside...bases loaded no outs. Not a good inning so far.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:40 PM
Seems like that should be a strike if he's offering to bunt and gets hit.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:40 PM
Did that hit the bat?

It looked that way intially but it did not on replay. Hit clavicle area bounced off into the chin.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:40 PM
Why is Volquez still in the game?

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:41 PM
Jocketty's got no compunctions about demoting guys to the bullpen. Which is good. We need that kind of take-charge mentality.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:41 PM
Don't throw the change up!!

guttle11
04-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Seems like that should be a strike if he's offering to bunt and gets hit.

He pulled it back, but from the sound and the replay, I'm 90% sure it hit pine before body.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Volquez is getting HAMMERED. Hart crushed one just foul down the left field line then lined out hard to Gonzo.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Line drive to Gonzo. Everybody held.

TeamBoone
04-13-2009, 10:42 PM
The ball bounced up off his bat; why was he awarded first base?

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:43 PM
I'd pull him right now. Come on Dusty. Make the move before it's too late.

jojo
04-13-2009, 10:43 PM
I see no reason why the guy in age-prime years can't post a .750 OPS.

There is nothing magical about "age-prime years". The guy has no power and he's consistently shown below average on base skills. Really why would be expected to turn into a butterfly on his 27th birthday?

Age-prime is just another way of saying "peak" and lets put it this way, Taveras isn't a mountain....

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:43 PM
Mario said it hit his clavicle, not his bat.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:44 PM
Heads up play by Volquez there to get the out at the plate.

TeamBoone
04-13-2009, 10:44 PM
It looked that way intially but it did not on replay. Hit clavicle area bounced off into the chin.

I thought it was obvious on the replay that it hit the bat first.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:44 PM
Tapper in front of the plate, Volquez to Hernandez, two down.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:44 PM
Slow dribbler to Volquez who tosses home for the force out. 2 down.

guttle11
04-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Mario said it hit his clavicle, not his bat.

His clavicle would have shattered into a million pieces based on the sound. Ball on body and ball on bat make two distinct, different sounds. It hit bat first. Hot to mention the physics of a pitch hitting your upper chest and somehow bouncing upwards at a high velocity. Doesn't work that way. You body absorbs too much energy, and isn't going to defy gravity on a rebound.

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:45 PM
I'd love to see Edinson escape from this one.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Really why would be expected to turn into a butterfly on his 27th birthday?

.

Because it happens more often than you believe. And really, is posting a .750 OPS in a very nice offensive ballpark "turning into a butterfly"? You act like it's impossible.

jojo
04-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Jocketty's got no compunctions about demoting guys to the bullpen. Which is good. We need that kind of take-charge mentality.

This is Dusty's team.

mbgrayson
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
I thought it was obvious on the replay that it hit the bat first.

I thought the opposite: looked to me like it went directly into his cheek/jaw.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
I bet that 999/1000 people would have voted for removing Volquez.

Baker voted no.

I think Baker was wrong, regardless of the result.

Mario-Rijo
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
I thought it was obvious on the replay that it hit the bat first.

I was looking for it because I initially thought it got bat, but I seen clavicle, chin on replay.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
Ground ball to EE, inning over. WHEW!

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
Fielder grounds out to Edwin who does NOT throw it away. 3 down. *whew*

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
I bet that 999/1000 people would have voted for removing Volquez.

Baker voted no.

I think Baker was wrong, regardless of the result.

Was Masset ready?

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:46 PM
Atta boy Edinson.

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:47 PM
Volquez gets out of the inning.

Have to give Dusty credit there, sticking with V. Now, with Braun and Fielder out of the way, maybe V can get through the fifth and get a win. If they win.

cincrazy
04-13-2009, 10:47 PM
I bet that 999/1000 people would have voted for removing Volquez.

Baker voted no.

I think Baker was wrong, regardless of the result.

I tend to agree with you, however, this could be a huge boost for Edinson's confidence. Maybe this will be his turning point (I hope with my fingers crossed).

BCubb2003
04-13-2009, 10:47 PM
Dusty's a misunderstood genius.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2009, 10:47 PM
EV did a nice job with Braun and Fielder, but he was very lucky on Hart.

Tom Servo
04-13-2009, 10:47 PM
This game is reminicent of the 2006 Reds to me.

jojo
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
Because it happens more often than you believe. And really, is posting a .750 OPS in a very nice offensive ballpark "turning into a butterfly"? You act like it's impossible.

I'm acting like he's spent his entire major league career in offensive environments so it's not very likely. Impossible? No. Has he done it yet in the majors? No. Do we have enough data to be pretty confident in the estimate of his true talent level? Ya.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
This is Dusty's team.

In St. Louis, it was Jocketty/Larussa. No question about it. I lived there for two years, and the dynamic was very much a mutual call.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
I bet that 999/1000 people would have voted for removing Volquez.

Baker voted no.

I think Baker was wrong, regardless of the result.

I voted for removing him. It worked out but I would've made the change.

Great job by Edinson. If he allows a base runner next inning I'd pull him.

Patrick Bateman
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
I bet that 999/1000 people would have voted for removing Volquez.

Baker voted no.

I think Baker was wrong, regardless of the result.

Totally. The "turnaround" started with a scorcher that just conveniantly was hit at Gonzalez. Hit basically anywhere else and it's probably 8-7 Brewers. The Reds got lucky with this decision, and I dont want them to press their luck again. Too many whammies still on the board.

PuffyPig
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
Was Masset ready?


He was ready somewhere along the line. Probably somewhere after Corey Hart smashed one of his 2 missles.

I don't think we were ready for Masset though.....

reds44
04-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Do the Reds really only have 3 hits?

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:49 PM
I don't know. This early in the season, Edinson's already struggled obviously. Pulling him only hurts his confidence even more. Leave him out there and show some faith in him. Let him work it out. It ended up working out and regardless of what people here think...Dusty knows more about these guys than we do.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Obviously not having Masset up earlier was Dusty's fault, but when Volquez got in trouble again, was Masset ready to come (as in, to face Hart?)

redsmetz
04-13-2009, 10:49 PM
Dusty's a misunderstood genius.

Now that's just crazy talk. Actually I like Baker...

Raisor
04-13-2009, 10:50 PM
Do the Reds really only have 3 hits?

it's not what you have, it's what you do with it!

or something.

Kc61
04-13-2009, 10:50 PM
Totally. The "turnaround" started with a scorcher that just conveniantly was hit at Gonzalez. Hit basically anywhere else and it's probably 8-7 Brewers. The Reds got lucky with this decision, and I dont want them to press their luck again. Too many whammies still on the board.

I'd be very surprised if Volquez comes out now. Dusty will give him the fifth inning. He might even give him the sixth, if the fifth is easy.

jojo
04-13-2009, 10:50 PM
Volquez's last inning just lowered his ERA.... :cool:

Falls City Beer
04-13-2009, 10:51 PM
This game is only in the fifth. Yikes. You're probably looking at two basement dwelling clubs here, so sloppy games are the order of the day.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2009, 10:51 PM
Gallardo has looked very sharp since getting lit for 6 runs -- he's snapping the breaking ball in the zone and getting some deceptive action on his fastball / change combo.

guttle11
04-13-2009, 10:52 PM
Maybe working out of that jam will be Volquez's "punch shot off the trees into the fairway" moment, and he'll breathe deeply and relax. I don't think his early troubles are stuff related...all mental.

HeatherC1212
04-13-2009, 10:52 PM
I wonder if Edinson's tough starts this year have something to do with him not getting enough time to work with Ramon during spring training. Would working with Hanigan in his next start maybe allow him to get his pitches working again and help boost his confidence before working with Ramon again? I don't really know how it works to go back and forth between catchers.

jojo
04-13-2009, 10:53 PM
Gallardo has looked very sharp since getting lit for 6 runs -- he's snapping the breaking ball in the zone and getting some deceptive action on his fastball / change combo.

Hey, if you take away his two mistakes, this is a completely different game.... :D

_Sir_Charles_
04-13-2009, 10:54 PM
Really nice AB as usual from Joey. Just missed another dinger and REALLY worked the count and protected the plate. Nice to see from a young hitter.

jojo
04-13-2009, 10:55 PM
I wonder if Edinson's tough starts this year have something to do with him not getting enough time to work with Ramon during spring training. Would working with Hanigan in his next start maybe allow him to get his pitches working again and help boost his confidence before working with Ramon again? I don't really know how it works to go back and forth between catchers.

I think command issues are mostly to blame. I don't think he'd have faired better pitching to the early 70's version of Johnny Bench.