View Full Version : Some Credit For Taveras

04-15-2009, 07:48 AM
The Taveras we saw last night was the one the front office thought they signed and the one most of us thought was a mirage. Let's hope the FO was right. You can't steal first, but you can certainly steal second if you work your way on base that many times! Nice game for #3 last night.

04-15-2009, 08:15 AM
I agree. Once he gets on it's exciting to watch him try to create havoc on the base path

Ghosts of 1990
04-15-2009, 08:16 AM
I kept saying to myself last night: this lineup/team is working tonight (at least for this 1 night of the season) how it was constructed to run......

04-15-2009, 08:51 AM
He's got a .444 OBP. Obviously no way he keeps that up. But if he can stay in the .340 - .360 range, we may have found something.

It was clear on the Hairston home run last night that he does have a pretty big effect on how opposing pitchers attack when he's on base. If he puts it all together he will be a pretty great weapon.

04-15-2009, 08:59 AM
I have to agree with the TV guys last night. What the hell was Dusty doing when Willie got on late in the game? No steal, no bunt?

04-15-2009, 09:01 AM
He's got a .444 OBP. Obviously no way he keeps that up. But if he can stay in the .340 - .360 range, we may have found something.

It was clear on the Hairston home run last night that he does have a pretty big effect on how opposing pitchers attack when he's on base. If he puts it all together he will be a pretty great weapon.

He was definitely in the head of the pitcher the same way players like Brock and Henderson were. People often underestimate the psychological effect a top notch speedster has on the other team; you can't easily quantify it but if you did some statistical research of OBP/AVG/SLG with a league leading stealer on I suspect it would prove the point.

04-15-2009, 09:12 AM
As long as he keeps walking I'll be happy

04-15-2009, 10:21 AM
My favorite player so far. I get excited when hits a grounder to the second basemen. He's that kind of player. He won't keep the pace up obviously but that's okay. And yes, I scream at the TV most times he's on first because they aren't sending him.


04-15-2009, 10:46 AM
Is he the son of Frank Taveras who played for the Pirates way back when?

Anyway, he is lightning quick and causes alot of problems.

In theory, this was a good move as long as Taveras holds up his end of the deal, knows his job is to get on base, and makes things happen.

04-15-2009, 10:49 AM
My favorite player so far. I get excited when hits a grounder to the second basemen. He's that kind of player. He won't keep the pace up obviously but that's okay. And yes, I scream at the TV most times he's on first because they aren't sending him.


I would have to think that a guy like Taveras would have the green light and wouldn't get the call from the bench. I think a lot of not stealing last night was the fact that he was facing a lefty who was giving him a lot of attention.

Also, I think Taveras may still be feeling the effects of the flu a bit. Maybe he didn't have his legs 100% under him yet and he is just now starting to feel it. Just a thought.

04-15-2009, 11:05 AM
I credit Hairston's dinger last night at least partially to T-Mobile.

04-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Big willy style all in it!

As long as he is patient atp and works counts and i think he needs top work his bunting skills a bit.

But i hope he keeps it up! We just might finally have a decent lead off guy.:thumbup:

04-15-2009, 05:45 PM
Watching him steal two bases last night reminded me of Eric Davis in his prime back in 1986 when he swiped 80.

04-15-2009, 06:08 PM
....and if Dickerson can keep from running into showers, maybe he can do some damage to opposing teams instead of to shower stalls.

04-15-2009, 07:50 PM
Yea Willy T is looking very good right now.....I will say I was very skeptical bringing him aboard and didn't think he would be anything good....It has been a very good surprise and hopefully he keeps it up...We will need everything and more he can give

04-15-2009, 10:30 PM
So far, he looks like a good decision, which I was willing to allow from the beginning. But gee-zuz, it's early. I'll keep reminding of that until it isn't early in the season anymore, on any thread.

04-15-2009, 11:17 PM
2 for 3 tonight with a run. Not running tonight, but a nice advance to third on a single.

We do have some issues in the lineup, but, thus far, he has been not among them. Hernandez (2 for 4 with a run tonight), and especially AGon (finally got a hit tonight) are much worse problems.

We'll have to see how he keeps going, but he's starting well.

04-15-2009, 11:27 PM
Correy Patterson after 9 games played in a Cincy uniform:
323 .353 .839 1.192

04-15-2009, 11:28 PM
C Pat after 17 games played in a Reds uni
196 .246 .500 .746

04-16-2009, 12:19 AM
Good point, surely, but the reason for C Patt's big early #'s was that he was knocking the crap out of the ball, clearly beyond his abilities.

Taveras is not playing complete outside of himself. He's getting base hits and legging out bunts. That's what he is - a slap hitter. He is walking more than usual and I think that will drop off.

Look, I've been as critical of him as anybody. I certainly don't think he's the answer to our offensive problems. But, he has done the job that Wayne and co. signed him for, so far. He deserves a little credit for that. At least we should now keep an open mind towards him and not write him off as an unproductive player, yet.

Lets see how he ends up in April and May. I would be surprised, but also delighted, to see an OBP north of .360. He has shown it could happen.

Captain Hook
04-16-2009, 12:42 AM
I can't believe this guy got so much $$$$$$ and for two years on top of it.C Pat was a much better center fielder and Willy Taveras might actually be the worse......oh wait.......this is the thread where we all actually say nice things about Willy.

Seriously though,I think that more than anything it is nice to see so many people give Tavares the credit he deserves so far.So many of us hated this move myself included but we all seem to be just fine with the possibility of being wrong.I just hope that things don't go south for Willy.I know that if they do and somebody tries to say that none of us ever gave the guy a chance I'll remember this thread.

04-16-2009, 09:09 AM
I've seen virtually every ML at bat from Willy T and from spring training on into this season this is the best approach at the plate that I've seen from him. Last year his approach was terrible. He was swinging at bad pitches early in the count way too often. He was flaling at pitches off the plate on the outside leading to way too many strikeouts and weak 4-3 groundouts. He was also going after too many pitches up in strikezone early in the count leading to way too many pop flys. So far this year he's being patient and looking for pitches he can handle and working the count. He's been swinging at pitches he can handle early in the count instead of anything that could possibly pass for a strike. Only once on Sunday did I he see him flaling at something off the plate on the outside which is a good sign because he was doing this all of last season. He hasn't gotten into a groove yet with his bunting but hopefully that will come in time. He does not appear to be rushing his bunts which was his problem last year IMO. He's fast enough that if he methodically gets the bunt down in the right place the defense has little chance of throwing him out. Last year I felt he was rushing his bunt attempts and far too often was pushing them foul instead of putting them in play. As far as base stealing I think he really started to learn how to steal with the Rockies in 2007. His first two years with the Astros he hit in the two hole behind Biggio and in front of the Astros only real weapon at that time in Berkman. Garner gave him an almost constant red light when Berkman was up so he really didn't get a chance to run much on his own. In 2007 in Colorado he was caught stealing in 8 of his first 18 attempts. Since that point he has been caught 8 times in his last 102 attempts. He also had never stolen 3rd in his career until last year when I think he stole third I believe around 19-21 times. He's not going to go everytime he gets on as he pays alot of attention to pitchers time to the plate, pickoff move, etc as I assume everybody does today. If he gets a feel for the pitcher and the count though he won't hesitate. As for his defense well what can I say execpt for it's always an adventure. I thought he made tremendous strides early on last season before really having some problems late in the season. He does a better job coming in on the ball than he does going back on it but like I said I thought he made some strides in that regard early last season. He has a strong arm for a centerfilder but often times his accuracy leaves much to be desired. Overall I'm very optimistc about the season that Willy could have this year. If he keeps the approach that he has right now it could be a very good year for him. He really could be an amazing talent if he put things together at the plate. Of course we saw last year what can happen with a bad approach at the plate. I really like what I've seen from him early on and right now I feel I have every reason to be optimistic. On a personal note I really enjoy reading the boards here on Redszone. I've been a long time reader of various message boards but have never been one to post. I really enjoy this board and think that the Reds have some of the best baseball fans on the planet. After Willy was non-tendered by the Rockies I read the various teams message boards that Willy had been rumored to go to. It was fun trying to figure out which team wanted Willy the least but I think the Reds fans easily won that competition. I really thought afer reading this board for awhile that Reds fans would really love him if he produced as he was capable and I really believe I was right on that. I truly believe if he plays up to his potential the fans here will love him and if he puts up a season at the plate like last year they won't and that's all myself as a fan of Willy T can ask for. Sorry about the long post I just really wanted to share some of my thoughts about my favorite player.

04-16-2009, 09:41 AM
WillyT, you make some great points. My excitement with Willy right now isn't about his good stats through 8 games, but HOW he got those stats. His approach is certainly better and the things he is doing at the plate and on the basepaths are exactly what everyone believed he was capable of. Some of the things you mention indicate that Willy continues to work at his game and evolve despite having been in the bigs for several years. Put me in the "pleasantly surprised" crowd that thinks he seems poised for a good year.

04-16-2009, 09:53 AM
I agree 100%. I look at his approach and not the stats so much. I've watched him so closely through the years and I think if he stays with this same approach at the plate he'll have a fine year.

04-24-2009, 02:42 PM
I'm very thankful for this Willy T credit thread over here on The Sun Deck considering the RedsZone has another epic "merit of Willy T" thread going on over there. I understood the debate about the merits of signing him in the offseason and rightfully so but as a Taveras fan I just wish it would take at least a bad week before that tired debate would start again. The team is off to a great start and Willy has been a huge part of it. I just wonder why everyone can't just be happy and leave the debate about Willy to the time when he gives people a reason to debate about him. Oh well, lets go scalp the Braves tonight. I'm on board with the Reds weather everyone wants Willy or not. Go Reds!

04-24-2009, 02:46 PM
I've never met a person who's genuine favorite player is Willy Taveras. Interesting choice. I guess that finally justifies my inexplicable love affair with Hank Blalock.

04-24-2009, 02:50 PM
Everyone has to have somebody right? Before Taveras for me it was Bill Spiers. Pretty obscure, huh?