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nate
04-16-2009, 06:19 PM
Talk about the newest Red here.

BearcatShane
04-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Well, from what everyone said in the other thread, this sounds like a great deal for the Reds. How far away is he from the big leagues? His 2008 minor league numbers are very good.

dougdirt
04-16-2009, 06:31 PM
Solid plate approach... but be a little cautious with the power from last year. He was playing in a notorious hitters league and he played his home games at Corpus Christi and here is the park factor on that park:


R H 2B HR BB K
Corpus Christi 0.99 0.99 0.96 1.08 0.97 0.98
Its a HR friendly park in a hitter friendly league. Likely a solid utility infielder who gives a good at bat most of the time.

Benihana
04-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Solid plate approach... but be a little cautious with the power from last year. He was playing in a notorious hitters league and he played his home games at Corpus Christi and here is the park factor on that park:


R H 2B HR BB K
Corpus Christi 0.99 0.99 0.96 1.08 0.97 0.98
Its a HR friendly park in a hitter friendly league. Likely a solid utility infielder who gives a good at bat most of the time.

True, although he was MVP of the league. That counts for something.

My question is what does this mean for Chris Valaika? Does he move back to SS? Both Sutton and Valaika profile very similar, I wonder who is better defensively?

Also, perhaps this will finally force the Reds to move Phillips to SS in 2010? One can only dream...

OnBaseMachine
04-16-2009, 06:44 PM
"Sutton was the guy all along," Jocketty said. "We just wanted to see him some more. We think he's a better fit for us."

Sutton will report to Class AAA Louisville. To make room on the Reds' 40-man roster, IF Danny Richar was outrighted to Louisville.

"He's a guy we like a lot," Jocketty said. "He's a good athlete, he plays a number of positons, he can run, he's a switch-hitter."

Sutton, 25, last season was named Class AA Corpus Christi's Most Valuable Player after hitting .317 with 20 HR and 69 RBI. He was named a Texas League mid-season and post-season All-Star and led all Astros minor leaguers in batting average, hits (165), runs (102), walks (76), doubles (39) and extra-base hits (63).

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3aafe1f4d2-355e-4abb-9ae4-2e3f993624ca&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

dougdirt
04-16-2009, 06:46 PM
True, although he was MVP of the league. That counts for something.

My question is what does this mean for Chris Valaika? Does he move back to SS? Both Sutton and Valaika profile very similar, I wonder who is better defensively?

Also, perhaps this will finally force the Reds to move Phillips to SS in 2010? One can only dream...

MVP of a AA League when he was 25 doesn't count for a whole lot.

As for Valaika, he seems to be at SS since Janish is in the majors, so Sutton will likely be playing 2B.

Benihana
04-16-2009, 06:48 PM
Worst-case scenario, he looks like Jeff Keppinger but younger (and a switch-hitter.)

nate
04-16-2009, 06:50 PM
Here's some stat salad:



Year Age Tm Lg Lvl Aff G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% SH SF IBB HBP GDP
+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+
2004 21 TRC NYP A- HOU 63 250 43 70 10 0 1 16 39 50 .280 .377 .332 .709 2 4 33%
2005 22 TOT 105 379 68 104 24 3 16 54 65 85 .274 .389 .480 .869 8 5 62% 1 1 2 7 8
LEX SAL A HOU 62 231 46 66 19 2 13 42 36 51 .286 .394 .554 .948 4 2 67% 1 1 1 6 5
SAL CAR A+ HOU 43 148 22 38 5 1 3 12 29 34 .257 .382 .365 .747 4 3 57% 0 0 1 1 3
2006 23 SAL CAR A+ HOU 125 456 65 120 27 2 15 48 69 84 .263 .360 .430 .790 20 15 57% 17 6 6 3 7
2007 24 CCH TEX AA HOU 128 480 81 129 28 1 9 53 57 86 .269 .351 .388 .739 24 5 83% 8 6 3 7 11
2008 25 CCH TEX AA HOU 133 520 102 165 39 4 20 69 76 98 .317 .408 .523 .931 20 7 74% 1 3 3 6 8
+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+
1 Season A- 63 250 43 70 10 0 1 16 39 50 .280 .377 .332 .709 2 4 33%
1 Season A 62 231 46 66 19 2 13 42 36 51 .286 .394 .554 .948 4 2 67% 1 1 1 6 5
2 Seasons A+ 168 604 87 158 32 3 18 60 98 118 .262 .365 .414 .779 24 18 57% 17 6 7 4 10
2 Seasons AA 261 1000 183 294 67 5 29 122 133 184 .294 .381 .458 .839 44 12 79% 9 9 6 13 19
+-----------------+---+--------+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+
5 Seasons 554 2085 359 588 128 10 61 240 306 403 .282 .377 .441 .818 74 36 67% 27 16 14 23 34
+-----------------+------------+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+

schmidty622
04-16-2009, 06:58 PM
That's some solid baseball player right there.

Homer Bailey
04-16-2009, 06:58 PM
I was excited.... until Doug brought me back to Earth. Thanks Doug! haha kidding.

nate
04-16-2009, 07:01 PM
Solid plate approach... but be a little cautious with the power from last year. He was playing in a notorious hitters league and he played his home games at Corpus Christi and here is the park factor on that park:


R H 2B HR BB K
Corpus Christi 0.99 0.99 0.96 1.08 0.97 0.98Its a HR friendly park in a hitter friendly league. Likely a solid utility infielder who gives a good at bat most of the time.

Doug, just to get an idea, how would his line at CC translate if made neutral?

dougdirt
04-16-2009, 07:08 PM
Doug, just to get an idea, how would his line at CC translate if made neutral?

Tough to guess because of the entire league playing quite hitter friendly. He still would have had a good season in the Southern League. Its just not as impressive as when a guy like Votto did it a few years ago but was 22 years old and had shown success similar to that over a full season before.

GOYA
04-16-2009, 08:12 PM
Somewhere, there's an Astros forum that's not very happy right now. (For more reasons than one)

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-astros&tid=79409

nate
04-16-2009, 08:16 PM
Somewhere, there's an Astros forum that's not very happy right now. (For more reasons than one)

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-astros&tid=79409

Heh, whoa!

mbgrayson
04-16-2009, 08:40 PM
Here is a 'fair use' excerpt from the 2009 John Sickels Prospect Book, specifically the portion that is the write-up on Sutton:


.. he spent 2008 repeating Double-A rather than Triple A. It would be easy to write this [progress] off as a 'league repeater" thing, but most scouts believe that he made genuine progress, and he encouraged this belief by hitting .315/.426/.611 in the Arizona Fall League. I do think his numbers last year overstate things a bit, and I think he is more of a .240 to .260 hitter at higher levels, but with enough power, walks, speed, and defensive versatility to be quite useful. Grade= C+.

nate
04-16-2009, 08:46 PM
Here's (http://evilwontwin.yuku.com/topic/15212/t/PTBNL-is-Drew-Sutton.html) another Astros forum thread about it. I think the second post might be a fair analysis:


I had high hopes for Sutton, so this is kind of disappointing. Sutton demonstrated that he is a good offensive player in AA, putting up an OPS over .900 and exhibiting both power and plate discipline. His down side is that even though he plays all infield positions, he isn't a particularly good defensive player. His best position is 2d base. He is ranked in the top 6 Astros prospects on most every list. Fangraphs may have put him as high as 2d or 3d, but most have him around 6. Of course, a 6th best on the Astros' list would be much lower on other teams. Sutton reminds me of that gritty, power hitting middle infield prospect which the Astros seem to groom, but who seldom makes the major league team (partly attributable to the presence of Biggio and Burke in the system)--comparable to Brooks Conrad or Keith Ginter.

I think the Astros probably concluded that Matsui, signed through next year, and Keppinger, still under team control next year, would block Sutton. I got the impression that Cooper preferred Manzella and Maysonet because they were better defensive players. Also, Sutton gained his offensive skill relatively late in his minor league career, and I think Wade is betting that Sutton's offensive numbers aren't sustainable at higher levels. I felt that Sutton needed to make the ML roster this year because he is relatively old, and would start to get the Quad-A reputation if he doesn't make the majors by age 26. I hope that this trade doesn't come back to bite the Astros.

On the surface, it isn't a bad trade. A 25 year old minor league infield prospect for a 29 year old proven major league infielder doesn't seem unfair. However, given that the Reds were in a roster bind with Keppinger, you wonder if the Astros could have waited and gotten the trade done more cheaply.

nate
04-16-2009, 08:47 PM
Another interesting tidbit from the same poster in the thread linked above:


Apparently the PTBNL was dependent on Keppinger's early season performance. If it was above a certain threshold, Reds could get a player from column A and if not, they get a player from column B. Keppinger obviously has hit well.

I agree that Sutton's lack of defensive versatility hurt him, even though I think he might have been able to play 3d base well enough if he had been given a chance there. And he has a narrow window of opportunity, given his age, to become a starting 2d baseman; and that window was blocked by Keppinger and Matsui.

bucksfan2
04-17-2009, 09:33 AM
MVP of a AA League when he was 25 doesn't count for a whole lot.

As for Valaika, he seems to be at SS since Janish is in the majors, so Sutton will likely be playing 2B.

Dickerson was an older prospect as well. He may not be a world beater but is he someone good to have in the system?

Non the less the Reds got the AA MVP for a utility player. I liked Keppy but the Reds may have gotten a player with a higher upside. It will be interesting to see what happens if he continues to develop if he will have a position to play.

GIDP
04-17-2009, 09:55 AM
Seems like a cheaper younger version of Keppinger to me. Not exactly the same but both serve the same roles on good teams.

lollipopcurve
04-17-2009, 09:57 AM
Pretty sure Sutton played with Mike Griffin at Baylor.

RedlegJake
04-17-2009, 10:04 AM
Seems like a cheaper younger version of Keppinger to me. Not exactly the same but both serve the same roles on good teams.


I agree - the Reds traded Kepp for a younger version who maybe has a bit more power and is a switch hitter. Overall an upgrade with an eye to future benefit for the Reds and immediate benefit for the Stros.

camisadelgolf
04-17-2009, 10:06 AM
Pretty sure Sutton played with Mike Griffin at Baylor.
You're right. So did Paul Witt (briefly a Reds minor leaguer in 2007), Abe Woody (the player the Reds traded to obtain Jerry Gil), and Kyle Edens (the player the Reds traded for Esteban Yan).

NorrisHopper30
04-17-2009, 10:10 AM
Is Sutton better than Keppinger defensively? What about his speed?

BuckeyeRedleg
04-17-2009, 10:33 AM
The Astros poster mentions Sutton being a consensus top 6 prospect in their (weak) system. What would that translate to in the Reds system? Fringe top 10? Top 15?

schmidty622
04-17-2009, 10:36 AM
I think sutton is no doubt a better base stealer than Kepp, having stolen 20+ bases the last 3 years in the minors. He also has a bit more punch in his bat then Kepp does.

Defensively I think they would be a wash. Sutton probably has better range due to his speed, but Kepp had more versatility around the diamond.

nate
04-17-2009, 10:41 AM
I do like Sutton's plate discipline. It seems like that's a skill that would translate to the big leagues pretty well.

bucksfan2
04-17-2009, 11:14 AM
I do like Sutton's plate discipline. It seems like that's a skill that would translate to the big leagues pretty well.

Agreed. Regardless of his age his 08 season was impressive. .317/.408/.931 will play anywhere. Throughout his minor league career he seems to be a pretty good OBP guy which makes him an asset to the Reds now.

dougdirt
04-17-2009, 12:04 PM
The Astros poster mentions Sutton being a consensus top 6 prospect in their (weak) system. What would that translate to in the Reds system? Fringe top 10? Top 15?
25-30 in my opinion. He is a lesser talented version of Adam Rosales.

dougdirt
04-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Dickerson was an older prospect as well. He may not be a world beater but is he someone good to have in the system?

Non the less the Reds got the AA MVP for a utility player. I liked Keppy but the Reds may have gotten a player with a higher upside. It will be interesting to see what happens if he continues to develop if he will have a position to play.

Dickerson oozed tools. Sutton doesn't. Big difference between the two and the 'older prospect' situation.

lollipopcurve
04-17-2009, 12:24 PM
Sutton's potentially useful mainly because he's a pretty accomplished switch-hitter, can play both infield and outfield (he's had some time in CF even) and can run. This gives him greater versatility than an already versatile guy like Rosales. His ability to hit LH makes him a nice counterpart to all of the 2B-SS-3B prospects in the system with the exception of Francisco. Very nice range of skills, and if he plays well at AAA he should be ready to contribute by next year, at the latest.

It's clear that Jocketty & Co. value players with a ton of versatility -- e.g., Wilken Castillo and Sutton. Would be nice to see at least one these players on the club (prob. next year) playing for a manager who can deploy him effectively (not sure if that's Baker....)

bucksfan2
04-17-2009, 12:32 PM
Dickerson oozed tools. Sutton doesn't. Big difference between the two and the 'older prospect' situation.

Sounds a lot like Jim Bowden. I think some times we get over enamored with "tools" and over look being a "ballplayer". By looking at Sutton's numbers his tools are being able to play multiple positions and get on base from both sides of the plate. He is not the kind of eye popping player that you build your team around but he may just be the type of player who is the glue that holds your team together.

dougdirt
04-17-2009, 12:38 PM
Sounds a lot like Jim Bowden. I think some times we get over enamored with "tools" and over look being a "ballplayer". By looking at Sutton's numbers his tools are being able to play multiple positions and get on base from both sides of the plate. He is not the kind of eye popping player that you build your team around but he may just be the type of player who is the glue that holds your team together.

Well, it was more of a Dickerson was old and turned into something decent at an older age. I was simply suggesting its because his tools seemed to finally click somewhat. Where as Sutton doesn't really have any tools, so the same kind of 'click' shouldn't be expected. He is what he is.... a guy who can play a few positions but isn't good at any of them really, has a weak arm a little bit of power if he can play 2nd base and a strong plate approach. There is nothing wrong with that kind of player at all. It just doesn't make one anything special either.

nate
04-17-2009, 12:42 PM
Well, it was more of a Dickerson was old and turned into something decent at an older age. I was simply suggesting its because his tools seemed to finally click somewhat. Where as Sutton doesn't really have any tools, so the same kind of 'click' shouldn't be expected. He is what he is.... a guy who can play a few positions but isn't good at any of them really, has a weak arm a little bit of power if he can play 2nd base and a strong plate approach. There is nothing wrong with that kind of player at all. It just doesn't make one anything special either.

Sure. To me, this is an excellent return for Kep. It's actually a lot better than Pilo Cash or a future 5th starter in the Antarctic League.

dfs
04-17-2009, 02:10 PM
He is what he is.... a guy who can play a few positions but isn't good at any of them really, has a weak arm a little bit of power if he can play 2nd base and a strong plate approach. There is nothing wrong with that kind of player at all. It just doesn't make one anything special either.

Sounds like BOTH players in this deal.

*BaseClogger*
04-17-2009, 03:47 PM
comparable to Brooks Conrad or Keith Ginter.

I'd take a Keith Ginter with speed:


SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2000 Hou 5 8 3 2 0 0 1 3 1 3 0 0 .250 .300 .625 .925
2001 Hou 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000
2002 Mil 21 76 6 18 8 0 1 8 15 14 0 0 .237 .363 .382 .745
2002 Hou 7 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 .200 .500 .400 .900
2002 -- 28 81 7 19 9 0 1 8 17 15 0 0 .235 .374 .383 .757
2003 Mil 127 358 51 92 15 2 14 44 37 87 1 1 .257 .352 .427 .779
2004 Mil 113 386 47 101 23 2 19 60 37 100 8 1 .262 .333 .479 .812
2005 Oak 51 137 12 22 5 0 3 25 13 25 0 0 .161 .234 .263 .497
Total -- 325 971 120 236 52 4 38 140 105 230 9 2 .243 .329 .422 .751

Gallen5862
04-17-2009, 03:58 PM
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2009/267972.html

Keppinger To Astros

Houston deals Drew Sutton in trade for versatile infielder

By Kary Booher and Matt Eddy
March 31, 2009
E-mail*Print

The Deal
The return of Alex Gonzalez after a year missed to injury meant that the Reds no longer had room in their infield for Jeff Keppinger. The Astros did, so they swung a trade for him at the end of spring training, sending a player to be named to the Reds.

UPDATE: The Astros traded second baseman Drew Sutton to the Reds to complete the deal for Keppinger (April 16).


The Young Player
Sutton, 25, ranked as the Astros' No. 8 prospect entering the season and did so on the strength of a breakout 2008 at Double-A Corpus Christi and a fine showing in the Arizona Fall League. In a second tour through the Texas League last year, Sutton batted .317/.408/.523 with 20 home runs, 39 doubles and 69 RBIs—he also led the circuit in hits, doubles and runs—and earned a place on the 40-man roster last November. Sutton credited Jaime Cevallos, a former golf pro, for helping his swing ahead of the 2008 season. He's a switch-hitting middle infielder with nice on-base ability, but he probably is better suited to second base than shortstop. At times, he manned center in the AFL. Hitting in the higher levels is the biggest question when it comes to Sutton, whom the Astros selected from Baylor in the 15th round of the 2004 draft.

Quick Take
An incredible contact hitter, Keppinger has struck out in just 5.5 percent of his 891 big league at-bats. As such, the righthanded batter boasts a singles-heavy career line of .290/.341/.400. Though he lacks classic shortstop actions, Keppinger, 29, filled in admirably at the position during the 2007 and 2008 seasons with the Reds. He's better suited to second or third base, though, where he figures to see the most time with the Astros.