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View Full Version : Is Carlos Fisher ready yet?



Boss-Hog
04-17-2009, 06:22 PM
Please use this thread for any discussion relating to Carlos Fisher.

OnBaseMachine
04-18-2009, 01:14 AM
Fisher had another dominant outing tonight: 2.2 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K

His 2009 numbers so far: 6.2 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 9 K

I hope we see him in Cincy soon.

NJReds
04-18-2009, 11:20 AM
Does he project long-term as a starter? 2-2/3 innings is a long stint for a reliever.

The Reds seem to have a lot of bullpen prospects.

mace
04-18-2009, 11:34 AM
I, too, like Fisher. Only problem: When he got his chances in the spring -- particularly in big games -- he was consistently crushed.

JaxRed
04-18-2009, 11:56 AM
Fisher had a 3.60 ERA this spring

dougdirt
04-18-2009, 11:57 AM
Does he project long-term as a starter? 2-2/3 innings is a long stint for a reliever.

The Reds seem to have a lot of bullpen prospects.

He used to be a starter and the Reds shifted him to the bullpen. While the Reds have a lot of bullpen prospects, Fisher is the best of the bunch that isn't named Zach Stewart. He is better than Roenicke. He is better than Manuel.

schmidty622
04-18-2009, 12:07 PM
I've always been a big Manuel fan because of his lower than low walk rate. I really like Fisher too. Hope they both get a shot sometime this year, but I don't really see it wqith the current makeup of the pen.

mace
04-18-2009, 12:58 PM
Fisher had a 3.60 ERA this spring

I don't recall the details, but he was front-and-center in multiple defeats. Seems as though there was a walkoff home run or two, and at least a couple untimely blowups.

That said, I like the guy, and trust it was an aberration.

icehole3
04-18-2009, 04:49 PM
I don't recall the details, but he was front-and-center in multiple defeats. Seems as though there was a walkoff home run or two, and at least a couple untimely blowups.

That said, I like the guy, and trust it was an aberration.

he had 2 earned runs in 5 innings, one run was a walk off homer to Toronto, the other was a 3 run homer to Tampa Bay in the 5th inning and the Reds were losing 4-3 and Bill Bray was getting knocked around and left 2 runners on and Fisher came in and gave up the long ball

Kc61
04-19-2009, 01:25 AM
He used to be a starter and the Reds shifted him to the bullpen. While the Reds have a lot of bullpen prospects, Fisher is the best of the bunch that isn't named Zach Stewart. He is better than Roenicke. He is better than Manuel.

Fisher's not better than Roenicke. He's different from Roenicke.

If Burton continues to struggle and goes to AAA or gets DL'd, I'd expect Roenicke to replace him. The Reds' roster lacks hard throwing relievers and if Burton can't fill the role, Roenicke will. Roenicke also was the one to pitch in Cincy last September and has outstanding minor league strikeout numbers.

If a Lincoln or Massett were to be replaced, Fisher might be the one to replace them. Fisher's a multi-inning guy, more ground balls, longer stints. Fisher would benefit from good infield defense, he has definite ground ball tendencies.

Fisher had a great 14 game stint at AAA last year, although Roenicke's overall 2008 numbers for the full season were a little better.

Roenicke lasted until one of the final cuts this spring. Fisher didn't. Reds obviously feel Roenicke is readier and, all things being equal, I'd expect Roenicke to get the call sooner.

mth123
04-19-2009, 03:46 AM
Fisher's not better than Roenicke. He's different from Roenicke.

If Burton continues to struggle and goes to AAA or gets DL'd, I'd expect Roenicke to replace him. The Reds' roster lacks hard throwing relievers and if Burton can't fill the role, Roenicke will. Roenicke also was the one to pitch in Cincy last September and has outstanding minor league strikeout numbers.

If a Lincoln or Massett were to be replaced, Fisher might be the one to replace them. Fisher's a multi-inning guy, more ground balls, longer stints. Fisher would benefit from good infield defense, he has definite ground ball tendencies.

Fisher had a great 14 game stint at AAA last year, although Roenicke's overall 2008 numbers for the full season were a little better.

Roenicke lasted until one of the final cuts this spring. Fisher didn't. Reds obviously feel Roenicke is readier and, all things being equal, I'd expect Roenicke to get the call sooner.

Roenicke may be considered "readier" but long term he has some control issues that need to be resolved. If they stay on the same path, Fisher will be the more effective major leaguer. I happen to like both guys and think they provide a nice succession plan for the day when Weathers rides off or is dealt for a propspect and Lincoln is let go. Deal Cordero for salary relief after 09, call-up Stewart and the pen will be transitioned to a cost effective group of hard throwers and the team should have some cash to address the rising cost of guys like Votto, Bruce and Volquez.

Given the Reds lack of multi-inning guys and the way Fisher is pitching, I'd be tempted to replace Lincoln with Fisher right now.

icehole3
04-19-2009, 07:20 AM
who would close Weathers?

Kc61
04-19-2009, 10:34 AM
Roenicke may be considered "readier" but long term he has some control issues that need to be resolved. If they stay on the same path, Fisher will be the more effective major leaguer. I happen to like both guys and think they provide a nice succession plan for the day when Weathers rides off or is dealt for a propspect and Lincoln is let go. Deal Cordero for salary relief after 09, call-up Stewart and the pen will be transitioned to a cost effective group of hard throwers and the team should have some cash to address the rising cost of guys like Votto, Bruce and Volquez.


Given the Reds lack of multi-inning guys and the way Fisher is pitching, I'd be tempted to replace Lincoln with Fisher right now.

Lincoln isn't being replaced, he has a two year contract, the Reds aren't just sending him out for a couple bad outings. The Reds aren't dealing Cordero, a proven closer signed for four years, to make room for prospects.

As for Roenicke's "control issues":

Last year at two minor league levels Roenicke walked 26 in 61 innings.
Last year at two minor league levels Fisher walked 29 in 68 innings.
At least in terms of walks, these two are were equal.

The Reds seem to be trying Stewart as a starter right now, and he is still in High A ball.

In terms of effectiveness, nothing is more valuable than a power reliever who strikes out guys and is dominating for an inning. Roenicke could be such a guy. Fisher will be a different type of reliever, more of a middle innings type who throws hard enough with ground balls.

Fisher could have a long career, he probably won't be as dependent on power stuff which does tend to fade. The question is whether he will be too hittable in the major leagues, we'll see.

For a couple years, Roenicke is likely to be the more dominant reliever. The question for him is whether he can effectively mix in enough secondary pitches to keep major league hitters off balance, we'll see.

mth123
04-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Lincoln isn't being replaced, he has a two year contract, the Reds aren't just sending him out for a couple bad outings. The Reds aren't dealing Cordero, a proven closer signed for four years, to make room for prospects.

As for Roenicke's "control issues":

Last year at two minor league levels Roenicke walked 26 in 61 innings.
Last year at two minor league levels Fisher walked 29 in 68 innings.
At least in terms of walks, these two are were equal.

The Reds seem to be trying Stewart as a starter right now, and he is still in High A ball.

In terms of effectiveness, nothing is more valuable than a power reliever who strikes out guys and is dominating for an inning. Roenicke could be such a guy. Fisher will be a different type of reliever, more of a middle innings type who throws hard enough with ground balls.

Fisher could have a long career, he probably won't be as dependent on power stuff which does tend to fade. The question is whether he will be too hittable in the major leagues, we'll see.

For a couple years, Roenicke is likely to be the more dominant reliever. The question for him is whether he can effectively mix in enough secondary pitches to keep major league hitters off balance, we'll see.


Like I said, I like them both. Might be a Williamson/Sullivan type duo. With Burton around and Viola being another hard thrower from the left side and Stewart on the way (likely to be the best of the bunch), there isn't a need for the Reds to have so much money invested in its pen next year. I close with Burton, set him up wth Roenicke and Viola and use Fisher to hold whenever needed (the most valuable guy of all IMO). Guys like Herrera and Masset can fill other mop-up/long man roles. I think Daryl Thompson will make a good reliever as well. I start trying to deal these older guys off this year at the deadline. Weathers on a one year deal is likely to be the first to go. I try to deal Cordero after the season when his no trade clause expires. Since Lincoln and Rhodes (two ultra short stint guys who hamstring the pen IMO) were unwisely given two year deals, they'll probably be around until the middle of 2010. Bill Bray may be a wild card in all of this.

However it plays out, I think the future of the Reds bullpen is bright. Hard Throwers in Burton, Roenicke, Viola, Stewart and to a lesser degree Fisher. A solid lefty (if he can stay healthy) in Bray, a solid all around pitcher in Thompson, an innings eater in Masset and a guy who provides a different look to mess guys up in Herrera. They'll all be cheap as well. Maybe the team will be able to afford its other needs.

dougdirt
04-19-2009, 01:21 PM
The Reds seem to be trying Stewart as a starter right now, and he is still in High A ball.


They are just using him as a starter to quicker develop his secondary pitches. Its not in their plans to use him as a starter at this point.

SMcGavin
04-19-2009, 02:32 PM
Fisher is definitely getting my attention with his great start to 09. But on the "Reds young reliever" depth chart I'd still put him behind Bray, Herrera, and Roenicke (the first two are also younger than Fisher). It's not hard to see all four of those guys having success in MLB - which as someone else pointed out, makes it hard to understand why the Reds have so much money already committed to the 2010 bullpen. Nonetheless, I am pretty happy with the future of the Reds pitching staff.

RED VAN HOT
04-23-2009, 01:52 AM
If a Lincoln or Massett were to be replaced, Fisher might be the one to replace them. Fisher's a multi-inning guy, more ground balls, longer stints. Fisher would benefit from good infield defense, he has definite ground ball tendencies.



You make a great point. Perhaps the only pitcher in the organization with better ground ball tendencies is Derik Lutz. There are times when you need a K and times when you need a ground ball. I like Fisher as the guy who relieves in the 6th or 7th when the starter suddenly loses it and puts one or two men on base to start an inning. It seems to me that Fisher goes very will with the type of ball club WJ seems to be trying to build.

Scrap Irony
04-23-2009, 01:54 AM
Perhaps the only pitcher in the organization with better ground ball tendencies is Derik Lutz.

Dallas Buck says hello.

bucksfan2
04-23-2009, 09:46 AM
Fisher is definitely getting my attention with his great start to 09. But on the "Reds young reliever" depth chart I'd still put him behind Bray, Herrera, and Roenicke (the first two are also younger than Fisher). It's not hard to see all four of those guys having success in MLB - which as someone else pointed out, makes it hard to understand why the Reds have so much money already committed to the 2010 bullpen. Nonetheless, I am pretty happy with the future of the Reds pitching staff.

Bray has to prove he is healthy. I have a feeling that if he continues to have arm issues, he will be cut when he is out of options. I also wonder about Herrera's shelf life. Come mid June will he be able to face teams who have already seen him? If he gets behind in the count he is not a good pitcher. Roenicke is probably the first right hander up. If Weathers or Lincoln go down he will be the first one to be called up. Fisher would probably be the next in line. I don't see Roenicke or Fisher being called up if Rhodes or Herrera go down.