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Red in Chicago
04-17-2009, 08:38 PM
Cincinnati
W. Taveras cf
C. Dickerson lf
J. Votto 1b
B. Phillips 2b
J. Bruce rf
E. Encarnacion 3b
R. Hernandez c
A. Gonzalez ss
J. Cueto p

Houston
M. Bourn cf
M. Tejada ss
L. Berkman 1b
C. Lee lf
H. Pence rf
G. Blum 3b
I. Rodriguez c
J. Smith 2b
R. Oswalt p

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 08:40 PM
Cueto struggled against the Astros last year. Hopefully that changes this year.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Yes, yes...I know. It's Oswalt going. *gulp* But remember, this isn't even close to the same team that he's been mowing down the last several years. I think we'll light him up tonight. 10-2 win for the Redlegs with a dinger from both Dickerson & Bruce. Bruce always has a very nice following here in Houston with his fan club coming down from Beaumont. :O)

Gallen5862
04-17-2009, 08:57 PM
Who will be able to do the PBP tonight? Thanks in advance.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:11 PM
Gotta love giving away outs vs Oswalt.

VR
04-17-2009, 09:11 PM
Gotta love giving away outs vs Oswalt.

what happened oBm?

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:12 PM
what happened oBm?

Dickerson singled and then was caught stealing.

VR
04-17-2009, 09:13 PM
Dickerson singled and then was caught stealing.

gracias

Gallen5862
04-17-2009, 09:15 PM
How did Tavaras get out?

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:15 PM
Dickerson got a really, really late jump. I'm not sure why he thought he'd still have a chance.

reds44
04-17-2009, 09:15 PM
Cueto K's Bourn

BoydsOfSummer
04-17-2009, 09:15 PM
From Lance's blog:

Reds pitchers he has defeated:2 Chris Reitsma, 2 Dennys Reyes, Elmer Dessens, Joey Hamilton, 2 Ryan Dempster, John Riedling, 3 Paul Wilson, Eric Milton, Ramón Ortiz, Aaron Harang, Todd Coffey, 3 Kyle Lohse, 2 Johnny Cueto, 2 Josh Fogg)

No wonder Roy is unbeatable against the Reds.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:16 PM
F-9 - Taveras

BCubb2003
04-17-2009, 09:22 PM
From Lance's blog:

Reds pitchers he has defeated:2 Chris Reitsma, 2 Dennys Reyes, Elmer Dessens, Joey Hamilton, 2 Ryan Dempster, John Riedling, 3 Paul Wilson, Eric Milton, Ramón Ortiz, Aaron Harang, Todd Coffey, 3 Kyle Lohse, 2 Johnny Cueto, 2 Josh Fogg)

No wonder Roy is unbeatable against the Reds.

On April 28, 2006, Brandon Claussen defeated Roy Oswalt. Brandon Phillips went 3-for-4 with 2 rbis.

It can be done.

reds44
04-17-2009, 09:22 PM
Cueto blows a heater right by Lee.

1 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:24 PM
Bruce is going to take Oswalt deep tonight.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:28 PM
Phillips K's swinging on a high 2-2 fastball.

Bruce lines a curveball into right for a single. He's hit Oswalt well so far in his career.

EdE doubles. Bruce holds at third. He probably would've scored if the ball hadn't hit that little cutout.

Red in Chicago
04-17-2009, 09:32 PM
Bases loaded for Gonzo...perfect time for his second hit of the season

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:35 PM
They won't score.

Gonzalez got ahead 1-0. Fouled off ball 2, swung and missed another bad ball, fouled off another high ball. Takes ball 2 inside. Now he swings and missed a belt high fastball right down the middle. Oswalt put that on a tee.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:35 PM
I think that was the only strike of the AB.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:37 PM
They didn't score.

That will come back to bite them in the butt.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:39 PM
I think they should tell Alex not to swing until he has two strikes. As OBM pointed out, that was a horrible at bat.

Raisor
04-17-2009, 09:40 PM
I think they should tell Alex not to swing until he has two strikes. As OBM pointed out, that was a horrible at bat.

Heck, I'd let him take every pitch.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 09:41 PM
Oswalt really got squeezed that inning. He had several FB's right on the inside edge of the plate all in the same location...called balls.

Other than the walk to Berkman, Cueto's looked solid. He is falling off towards first again though. Usually not a good sign.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:43 PM
Eight pitch second inning by Cueto.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:47 PM
Taveras walks to begin the third inning.

WMR
04-17-2009, 09:49 PM
So far Cueto seems to have missed the memo. :D

Raisor
04-17-2009, 09:49 PM
Taveras walks to begin the third inning.

I have a man-crush on Willy T.

WMR
04-17-2009, 09:49 PM
Wonder how much longer the Alex Gonzalez experiment/debacle will be allowed to continue unabated?

WMR
04-17-2009, 09:50 PM
I have a man-crush on Willy T.

Thanks for the sig.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Wonder how much longer the Alex Gonzalez experiment/debacle will be allowed to continue unabated?

I never thought I'd say that I'd love to see Janish as the every day SS, but I'd love to see Janish as the every day SS.

Raisor
04-17-2009, 09:51 PM
Thanks for the sig.

No prob.

WMR
04-17-2009, 09:52 PM
No prob.

:D

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Dickerson flied out.

Votto singled to right, Taveras got gunned down at third. Dumb baserunning. He had no chance. Oswalt is hard to enough to beat, it's even harder when you give him outs.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:52 PM
Sweet base running so far.

WMR
04-17-2009, 09:54 PM
Sweet base running so far.

They must think they're still in spring training. :D

Raisor
04-17-2009, 09:54 PM
Dickerson flied out.

Votto singled to right, Taveras got gunned down at third. Dumb baserunning. He had no chance.

I take back what I said.

Everyone please remove my previous remarks from your sigs.

Thanks.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 09:55 PM
Atleast they are making the Wizard throw some pitches (61).

RBA
04-17-2009, 09:55 PM
Dickerson flied out.

Votto singled to right, Taveras got gunned down at third. Dumb baserunning. He had no chance. Oswalt is hard to enough to beat, it's even harder when you give him outs.

replay shows he got under the tag.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 09:55 PM
Votto singles to right and Pence guns down Taveras at third. Replay showed the tag missed, but it counted. Votto to 2nd w/ two outs.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Phillips walks. Everything we thought we knew is wrong. Phillips and Taveras both have walked tonight. Good sign.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Bruce flies out to the warning track in left.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Phillips walked.

Bruce flied out to the wall in LF to end the inning.

The Reds have three walks and four hits in three innings but zero runs. The Reds should have two or three runs right now.

Raisor
04-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Phillips walks. Everything we thought we knew is wrong. Phillips and Taveras both have walked tonight. Good sign.



Start looking to the heavens.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 09:57 PM
After 2 and a half, no score.

Oswalt at 64 pitches, 42 strikes.
Cueto at 30 pitches, 18 strikes.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 09:59 PM
Dickerson flied out.

Votto singled to right, Taveras got gunned down at third. Dumb baserunning. He had no chance. Oswalt is hard to enough to beat, it's even harder when you give him outs.

I agree that he shouldn't have gone for third there. But the Astro's replay...clearly showed that he was safe. The tag missed him initially. He still shouldn't have gone. I like aggressive baserunning...but INTELLIGENT agressive baserunning is preferred.

Oswalt is around 65 pitches already. Nice patience overall by the Reds there.

WMR
04-17-2009, 10:00 PM
I take back what I said.

Everyone please remove my previous remarks from your sigs.

Thanks.

oh no, that quote is going to haunt you like the ghost of bob boone. :D

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:00 PM
replay shows he got under the tag.

The ball beat him by so far that the fielder would almost have to not touch him at all for Taveras to get that call. It's not right, but that's the way it is.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:00 PM
Taveras needs to back up. He just about gave up an XBH there because he plays so shallow in CF.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:01 PM
Six pitch third inning for Cueto.

3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 3 K

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:04 PM
Taveras needs to back up. He just about gave up an XBH there because he plays so shallow in CF.

I don't like it either. I don't want to see him Jim Edmondsing routine fly balls all season.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 10:05 PM
What the heck? I come downstairs to post ONE message during a commercial...come back upstairs and Cueto's done with the inning. Wow.

Okay, no more posting for me guys. That was a little TOO quick. :O)

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:06 PM
EE strikes out swinging, but it was an 8 pitch at bat....

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:06 PM
EdE K's swinging on ball four. At least he made Oswalt throw eight pitches.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Hey, he didn't swing.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:10 PM
Gonzo lines a weak single to left-center.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Hernandez flied out on the sixth pitch.

Gonzalez bloops a single.

Cueto flied out.

84 pitches through four innings for Oswalt.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Tejada/Berkman/Lee due up for the Astros. Big inning coming up for Cueto.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:11 PM
If you're a pitcher not named Micah Owings you shouldn't be allowed to hold a bat a the plate until you have two strikes.

Raisor
04-17-2009, 10:11 PM
Gonzo lines a weak single to left-center.

enfuego

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:14 PM
The Astros announcers are really workin' that jinx angle against Cueto. They've mentioned that the Stros' don't have a hit about 4 times in the last two innings.

Raisor
04-17-2009, 10:16 PM
Is Larry Dierker still announcing for the Astros?

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:17 PM
I missed it. I see that Tejada reached on an infield single. What happened?

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:18 PM
I'm digging the "walk Berkman" strategy. I'm completely serious, too.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:18 PM
Berkman walks. Astros have two on and none out. Unlike the Reds, they will actually score.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:18 PM
I missed it. I see that Tejada reached on an infield single. What happened?

Ground ball up the middle. Agon dove and bobbled it. He tried to throw him out from his butt, but it wasn't close.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:19 PM
Roy Oswalt's first two games of 2009:

vs. Cubs 4/6- Threw 93 pitches in 7 innings, gave up 3 earned runs.
vs. Cards 4/11- Threw 89 pitches in 6 innings, gave up 6 earned runs.

Tonight after four innings, Roy O. has already thrown 84 pitches, but given up 0 runs. The Reds need to keep up the plate patience. I doubt Roy sticks around past the fifth unless he gets through the fifth on ten or fewer pitches.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:19 PM
I'm digging the "walk Berkman" strategy. I'm completely serious, too.

So am I. I think he's done very well to not give in, in a hitters count.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:22 PM
Wild pitch, that on the other hand, sucks.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:25 PM
Berkman walks. Astros have two on and none out. Unlike the Reds, they will actually score.

Thankfully I was wrong. Great job by Cueto.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:26 PM
Blum popped out to Gonzo at short.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:27 PM
That sucks, Taveras hit a rocket there.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:27 PM
Taveras bounces a hard one off Oswalt's butt to third, who throws him out at first.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:29 PM
Taveras bounces a hard one off Oswalt's butt .

:laugh::laugh:

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:31 PM
Reds go 1-2-3. Oswalt has thrown 97 pitches through five innings.

The Reds really missed there opportunity in the second and third innings.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:31 PM
The Houston bullpen is stirring. Oswalt through five scoreless innings having thrown 97 pitches.

CrackerJack
04-17-2009, 10:37 PM
Cueto got robbed on the 2-2 to Roy...

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:39 PM
Cueto's been shaky since the middle of last inning. Astros have been swinging at balls out of the zone. They're no longer helping him out, though.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:39 PM
Cueto got robbed on the 2-2 to Roy...

Yep. That should have been a 1-2-3 inning for Cueto.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:40 PM
This is getting ready to go downhill. Tejada's going to jump on a get-ahead FB.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:40 PM
Now he walks Bourn.

Two outs, nobody on base, and a 1-2 count on Oswalt. The ump really screwed Cueto.

Superdude
04-17-2009, 10:41 PM
Does Cueto's stuff seem a tad more pedestrian this year or am I just exxagerating in my mind how good his stuff was last year?

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Hmm....I don't think this is where we want Berkman to come up. A walk still may be the best bet.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:44 PM
I'd walk Berkman here: I'm completely serious.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Bases loaded and two outs for Berkman. Unreal.

Cueto was one strike away from a 1-2-3 inning and now this.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Lincoln's warming up, so that'll strike fear into the hearts of the Astros.

CrackerJack
04-17-2009, 10:45 PM
Does Cueto's stuff seem a tad more pedestrian this year or am I just exxagerating in my mind how good his stuff was last year?

Looks pretty good to me - but I've noticed bats aren't missing balls much.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:46 PM
This is so Reds-esque, though. Lose the game by walking the pitcher. The total lack of focus in these pitchers is dumbfounding.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:46 PM
Cueto is getting squeezed. He should have been out of this inning. That 2-2 pitch on Oswalt was strike three.

CTA513
04-17-2009, 10:47 PM
Can't expect to get that call when you can barely find the strike zone.

hebroncougar
04-17-2009, 10:48 PM
My thoughts exactly........this umpire has been squeezing both pitchers. Getting nothing at the knees and nothing on the inside corner.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:48 PM
Can't expect to get that call when you can barely find the strike zone.

Well, the inning should have been over. What a ridiculous strikezone. Oswalt was struckout.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:49 PM
Very good move by Dusty.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:49 PM
LOL. Dusty brings in Mike Lincoln. Are you kidding?

CrackerJack
04-17-2009, 10:49 PM
That last pitch to Berkman was fairly wicked - no replay so no way of telling it was a strike, but started inside and tailed back out at the last second. Ugh.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:49 PM
Cueto is getting squeezed. He should have been out of this inning. That 2-2 pitch on Oswalt was strike three.

Gameday shows all four 'balls' thrown to Oswalt as being outside the strike zone.

GAC
04-17-2009, 10:49 PM
My thoughts exactly........this umpire has been squeezing both pitchers. Getting nothing at the knees and nothing on the inside corner.

I agree. I thought Lance was K'd.

Degenerate39
04-17-2009, 10:50 PM
I'd walk Berkman here: I'm completely serious.


This is so Reds-esque, though. Lose the game by walking the pitcher. The total lack of focus in these pitchers is dumbfounding.

Johnny Cueto did what you would do and now you're critizing him for doing that.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:50 PM
Can't expect to get that call when you can barely find the strike zone.

Exactly. Don't get cute, it's the pitcher. Chuck it and duck. If he beats you, hey, buy him a beer. But I bet he Ks.

remdog
04-17-2009, 10:50 PM
Whether it's accurate, I don't know but gametracker showed two of the four balls to Berkman as being in the strikezone.

Rem

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:50 PM
Gameday shows all four 'balls' thrown to Oswalt as being outside the strike zone.

Gameday is not accurate.

GAC
04-17-2009, 10:50 PM
FO to Gonzo inning over

BCubb2003
04-17-2009, 10:50 PM
Only now are we beginning to understand Dusty.

Tony Cloninger
04-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Cowboy Joe might have a tight strike zone but Cueto did himself no favors...starting with the previous inning.

Only good thing is that Oswalt has 1 inning left in him and that is it.

remdog
04-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Gameday is not accurate.

And you know that how?

Rem

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Exactly. Don't get cute, it's the pitcher. Chuck it and duck. If he beats you, hey, buy him a beer. But I bet he Ks.

He didn't get cute. He threw a strike and the umpire missed it. That should have been a 1-2-3 inning for Cueto.

Solid start for Johnny. He should have about a 3-0 lead right now.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Johnny Cueto did what you would do and now you're critizing him for doing that.

It's called damage control. Doesn't mean it's optimal, or good.

GAC
04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
chat is open

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Johnny Cueto did what you would do and now you're critizing him for doing that.

Well I think he was saying that he shouldn't have been in that position, but he was because he walked the pitcher. I also think that walking Berkman was the best choice, but having to pitch to Berkman with the bases loaded was the real issue.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
He didn't get cute. He threw a strike and the umpire missed it. That should have been a 1-2-3 inning for Cueto.

Solid start for Johnny. He should have about a 3-0 lead right now.

It could have been a 1-2-3 inning.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Lincoln gets the job done by pitching to contact. Something Johnny wasn't able to do this inning. Really should've put Oswalt down, but his control just wasn't there today. But overall...not a bad start. Too many walks. But only 1 run allowed and only 2 hits allowed. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Kc61
04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Cueto is getting squeezed. He should have been out of this inning. That 2-2 pitch on Oswalt was strike three.

Oh, I don't know about that. The ump has a smallish zone, but Cueto really fell apart. Not only did he walk the pitcher, but he completely lost his command on Bourne, and then couldn't put away Tejada.

Even if the third pitch to Oswalt was a strike, so you get a tough call, you go get the pitcher on the next one.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:54 PM
Lincoln gets the job done by pitching to contact. Something Johnny wasn't able to do this inning. Really should've put Oswalt down, but his control just wasn't there today. But overall...not a bad start. Too many walks. But only 1 run allowed and only 2 hits allowed. Nothing to be ashamed of.

Teams who "aren't bad" lose.

Red in Chicago
04-17-2009, 10:56 PM
Teams who "aren't bad" lose.

Well, even great teams will lose 60 times in a season.

Tony Cloninger
04-17-2009, 10:57 PM
What's his excuse for Bourne or not putting away tejada?

Just like FCB about the lack of focus....i agree.

Daddy Mario cannot be out here all the time telling him or Volquez what they need to do....and how to put people away.

Meanwhile.....Oswalt continues to not only be good against the Reds but lucky.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 10:57 PM
Joe West is the home plate umpire tonight. That explains everything.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 10:57 PM
Joe West is the home plate umpire tonight. That explains everything.

It certainly hasn't affected Oswalt one bit.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Teams who "aren't bad" lose.

Sometimes you simply baffle me. He allowed TWO hits and ONE run thru 5 innings, it's a 1 run game and this'll most likely be the last inning from Oswalt. You act like this game is over. Have you seen the Astros' bullpen? Your pessimism is going a bit overboard IMO. I like reading the game threads, but this sort of stuff makes it difficult to say the least.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Gameday is not accurate.

It is at least as accurate as anything else. They have high speed cameras tracking the speed and angle of each pitch.

The umps have not called those inside corner pitches strikes all night, the Astros commentators have been mentioning that all night.

Kc61
04-17-2009, 10:59 PM
Teams who "aren't bad" lose.

Agree. Tight low-scoring ball game, the guy who walks the pitcher and then loses his command will often lose.

It wouldn't be so bad if Cueto allowed a 580 foot home run and lost 1-0. You know, you get hit, it happens. But letting Astros break the ice in that particular way is, well, you know.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:00 PM
It certainly hasn't affected Oswalt one bit.

Probably because Oswalt OWNS the Reds.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:00 PM
Agree. Tight low-scoring ball game, the guy who walks the pitcher and then loses his command will often lose.

It wouldn't be so bad if Cueto allowed a 580 foot home run and lost 1-0. You know, you get hit, it happens. But letting Astros break the ice in that particular way is, well, you know.

There are doers in this world, then there are complainers. Excuses are like acid to my eardrums.

Tony Cloninger
04-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Computers need to replace Home Plate umpires. End the agony and debates.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:01 PM
It certainly hasn't affected Oswalt one bit.

Stop and think about that one for a sec. Not only has Oswalt been in trouble most of the game and his pitch count SOARED early, but you're comparing Cueto to OSWALT. I don't expect Cueto to outpitch Oswalt. There are only a small handfull of pitchers who are in the same league as Oswalt over the past 5 years or so. That's kind of an unfair comparison wouldn't you think?

KoryMac5
04-17-2009, 11:01 PM
I think what some folks are getting at is that the really good pitchers in this league have a certain killer instinct that allows them to put teams away. Both Cueto and Volquez need to find that.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Stop and think about that one for a sec. Not only has Oswalt been in trouble most of the game and his pitch count SOARED early, but you're comparing Cueto to OSWALT. I don't expect Cueto to outpitch Oswalt. There are only a small handfull of pitchers who are in the same league as Oswalt over the past 5 years or so. That's kind of an unfair comparison wouldn't you think?

So Cueto can't take that leap forward and outpitch a great pitcher? He's resigned to second-tier status? Who's the pessimist here?

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Nice inning for Lincoln

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:04 PM
Nice inning for Lincoln

It's flat unreal what throwing strikes can do.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:04 PM
I think what some folks are getting at is that the really good pitchers in this league have a certain killer instinct that allows them to put teams away. Both Cueto and Volquez need to find that.

Agreed. Neither are pitchers of the same caliber as Oswalt....YET. They're both very young and it's pretty unfair to expect Oswalt-type of efficiency and effectiveness. Just give it time. I was pleased with Cueto's overall effort tonight. Just lost his command towards the end there.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 11:04 PM
How about Orel Lincoln with a 2.1 consecutive scoreless inning streak?!!

remdog
04-17-2009, 11:05 PM
Nice inning for Lincoln

His ERA is dropping like a rock. :)

Rem

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:06 PM
So Cueto can't take that leap forward and outpitch a great pitcher? He's resigned to second-tier status? Who's the pessimist here?

I never said he can't. I said its a bit unfair to EXPECT him to do that at this stage of his career. But as a Reds fan you HOPE for him to do it every time. You don't wait for something bad to happen and then dogpile on top of their mistakes.

Kc61
04-17-2009, 11:08 PM
So Cueto can't take that leap forward and outpitch a great pitcher? He's resigned to second-tier status? Who's the pessimist here?

FCB is completely right here. For ten years, now, the Reds have had "promising" performances, guys who "didn't deserve to lose."

Why does Oswalt always beat the Reds? Because even when he is shaky the Reds don't have anyone who can pitch that terrific game to beat him.

It's a tough league. You have to be very good to win. The Reds tend to have good "almost" performances, while many of the other teams tend to have guys like Oswalt who just win.

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Get Darnell a bus ticket to Louisville.

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:09 PM
This offense is so.......Blah

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:09 PM
The Reds offense blew it tonight. They had so many chances and blew it.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:10 PM
This offense is so.......Blah

Bruce not clicking is absolutely torpedoing it right now. And Gonzalez is beyond a black hole.

Raisor
04-17-2009, 11:11 PM
And Gonzalez is beyond a black hole.

http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/d43ffee181800214

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:12 PM
Danny Ray is my hero. No one gets more out of less.

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:13 PM
I don't know if one can say that Osvalt out pitched Cueto. It appears they both struggled, had high pitch count, but both get help from two anemic offenses. The only difference were the walks in the 5th.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:15 PM
I don't know if one can say that Osvalt out pitched Cueto. It appears they both struggled, had high pitch count, but both get help from two anemic offenses. The only difference were the walks in the 5th.

Yep. Cueto matched Oswalt all night up until the 5th inning. We would be talking about how Cueto out pitched Oswalt if Joe West hadn't missed that 1-2 pitch.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:15 PM
I don't know if one can say that Osvalt out pitched Cueto. It appears they both struggled, had high pitch count, but both get help from two anemic offenses. The only difference were the walks in the 5th.

In other words, Oswalt outpitched Cueto. This isn't debate, you can't win it on speaker points. If runs cross the plate, you lose. You're not as good.

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 11:15 PM
Alright, the Astros announcers have used the word "screwgie" at least 15 times this inning. It's very annoying.

Hoosier Red
04-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Get Darnell a bus ticket to Louisville.

Isn't he batting .300?

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Don't like Dusty's use of Herrera so far; he's overexposing him, IMO. DRH should be a loogy.

Degenerate39
04-17-2009, 11:17 PM
Isn't he batting .300?

Small sample size

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:21 PM
It's flat unreal what throwing strikes can do.
or not continually swinging at balls

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 11:22 PM
Well I think we got the one back for Taveras earlier. I think Bourne was safe.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:22 PM
Really nice throw by Hernandez. I like what I've seen from both our backstops so far this year defensively.

Tornon
04-17-2009, 11:22 PM
This will be Taveras' 8th straight at bat leading off an inning

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:23 PM
Really nice throw by Hernandez. I like what I've seen from both our backstops so far this year defensively.

I'd say defensively the team is well improved over last year. Which means the excuses for the pitchers diminish.

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:23 PM
If runs cross the plate, you lose. You're not as good.

Gee, I would have never figured that one out. :p:

The Reds have 5 hits, and the Astros 2.

It's not Cueto vs Oswalt, as much as it's Cueto vs the Astro batters. He was matching Oswalt, as far as peformance goes. Geez! He left the game down 1-0, not down 7-0. And there is no denying he hurt himself with the walks in the 5th.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:24 PM
Bruce not clicking is absolutely torpedoing it right now. And Gonzalez is beyond a black hole.until they stop hacking at anything remotely close to the strike zone it isn't likely to change. Bruce showed a lack of plate discipline in his ascent thru the minors but most chose to ignore it(even though it is one of the best predictors of success).

BCubb2003
04-17-2009, 11:24 PM
This will be Taveras' 8th straight at bat leading off an inning

Isn't that mathematically impossible or against the rules or something?

CrackerJack
04-17-2009, 11:25 PM
So Cueto can't take that leap forward and outpitch a great pitcher? He's resigned to second-tier status? Who's the pessimist here?

I think you're being a bit rough on a #4 starter who gave up one run in 5+ innings against an ace. His pitch to Oswalt wasn't "cute," it was an outside FB from what I recall, and was clearly a good pitch.

Oswalt gets that call, Cueto doesn't, that's the way it is for now.

The problem is this offense is not capable of scoring enough runs to win, often enough.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:25 PM
Poor pitch to try that bunt on. But I like the idea.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:25 PM
until they stop hacking at anything remotely close to the strike zone it isn't likely to change. Bruce showed a lack of plate discipline in his ascent thru the minors but most chose to ignore it(even though it is one of the best predictors of success).

So far the hitting has been by far the best part of this team. It's not even close. It may not last, but this argument is a tad off the mark as of now.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:26 PM
I think you're being a bit rough on a #4 starter who gave up one run in 5+ innings against an ace. His pitch to Oswalt wasn't "cute," it was an outside FB from what I recall, and was clearly a good pitch.

Oswalt gets that call, Cueto doesn't, that's the way it is for now.

The problem is this offense is not capable of scoring enough runs to win, often enough.

Great post.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:26 PM
So far the hitting has been by far the best part of this team. It's not even close. It may not last, but this argument is a tad off the mark as of now.
yep that sub 700 OPS is a sure sign of a winning offense.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:29 PM
Votto with a sharp double to left. Nice hustle out of the box gets him to second.

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:30 PM
been nice if someone had been on ahead of Votto ;)

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 11:30 PM
I think you're being a bit rough on a #4 starter who gave up one run in 5+ innings against an ace. His pitch to Oswalt wasn't "cute," it was an outside FB from what I recall, and was clearly a good pitch.

Oswalt gets that call, Cueto doesn't, that's the way it is for now.

The problem is this offense is not capable of scoring enough runs to win, often enough.

Oswalt wasn't getting that pitch either. I think the pitch that Cueto threw to Oswalt in the fifth was a strike but Oswalt was getting squeezed as well.

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:31 PM
BP wailing away

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:32 PM
gO rEdz.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Oswalt wasn't getting that pitch either. I think the pitch that Cueto threw to Oswalt in the fifth was a strike but Oswalt was getting squeezed as well.

Yep. You may not like the strike zone, but he's been VERY consistant with it and that's pretty much all I ask from any ref or ump from just about any sport.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-17-2009, 11:33 PM
It's official. It pains me to watch Brandon Phillips at the plate.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:33 PM
BP wailing awayI'm :shocked:

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:34 PM
It's official. It pains me to watch the Reds at the plate.
fixed

BuckeyeRedleg
04-17-2009, 11:35 PM
Just prior to the typical grounder to short, George says something along the lines of "this is why they have Brandon in the 4th spot, just for this kind of situation."

Uhh, yeah.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:36 PM
The Astros are awful, but once again the Reds can't beat them.

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:37 PM
Looks like Dickerson busted his glove.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:38 PM
It's official. It pains me to watch Brandon Phillips at the plate.

He may have had a poor game or a poor ab, but he's been VERY good so far this season at the plate. But I know what you mean.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 11:39 PM
Masset throws a perfect 8th. To the 9th,
Reds 0
Astros 1

BuckeyeRedleg
04-17-2009, 11:40 PM
He may have had a poor game or a poor ab, but he's been VERY good so far this season at the plate. But I know what you mean.


Very good in what way?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:40 PM
Alright! RALLY CAPS!!! LET'S KNOCK THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF VALVERDE!!!!

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:40 PM
Great job by the pitching staff tonight.

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:41 PM
Rally time!!!

Kc61
04-17-2009, 11:42 PM
I think you're being a bit rough on a #4 starter who gave up one run in 5+ innings against an ace. His pitch to Oswalt wasn't "cute," it was an outside FB from what I recall, and was clearly a good pitch.

Oswalt gets that call, Cueto doesn't, that's the way it is for now.

The problem is this offense is not capable of scoring enough runs to win, often enough.


Cueto did not give up one run in 5+ innings. Cueto had to be removed after 4 2/3 with the bases loaded after walking the pitcher and lead-off hitter and then walking in a run.

Oswalt, on the other hand, repeatedly pitched out of trouble and got stronger as the game went along.

Hoosier Red
04-17-2009, 11:42 PM
Very good in what way?

Well the .382 OBP is pretty good, especially considering his BA is only .240.
He's had a good approach but appears to have lost it the last few nights.

Gallen5862
04-17-2009, 11:42 PM
Lets get some runs Reds.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:43 PM
has valverde put on a few pounds in the last few years. Looks like he is carrying a baby in there.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:43 PM
Very good in what way?

He's been hitting the ball very hard. He's been showing a TON of patience at the plate. And he doesn't appear to be looking for the HR but rather just to make contact. IMO that's a VERY good change in approach.

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:43 PM
When did Valverde become a Latin version of Eric Gagne? They shop at the same eyeglasses store.

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:43 PM
So far the hitting has been by far the best part of this team. It's not even close. It may not last, but this argument is a tad off the mark as of now.

In the NL, the Reds offense is....

14th in runs, B/A,
16th in hits, total bases, SLG%
15th in OPS

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:44 PM
Jay that pitch was only a foot outside ... maybe you ought to take that one next time

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 11:45 PM
Jay that pitch was only a foot outside ... maybe you ought to take that one next time

Don't be ridiculous.

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:45 PM
EdE shows nice patience as the natives grow restless.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Jay that pitch was only a foot outside ... maybe you ought to take that one next time

He's pressing...big time. He's trying to force himself out of his slump. That ain't gonna work.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Don't be ridiculous.even CW said that pitch was never close to being a strike

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:46 PM
Nix on deck for Agon

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:46 PM
I'd pinch hit with Nix here. Hernandez is a doubleplay waiting to happen.

Gallen5862
04-17-2009, 11:47 PM
How many outs are their? Who is due up for the Reds?

Razor Shines
04-17-2009, 11:47 PM
even CW said that pitch was never close to being a strike
Come on bro, I was being sarcastic.

CrackerJack
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
Cueto did not give up one run in 5+ innings. Cueto had to be removed after 4 2/3 with the bases loaded after walking the pitcher and lead-off hitter and then walking in a run.

Oswalt, on the other hand, repeatedly pitched out of trouble and got stronger as the game went along.

Yet Oswalt only pitched 6...and still has a slightly higher era than Cueto

Cueto's a young #4, I'll give him some slack, if the Reds had a 2 run lead maybe he stays in an finishes it out.

I do know that 0 runs won't win you any games, so I'm not sure what all the hub-bub is about.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
He's pressing...big time. He's trying to force himself out of his slump. That ain't gonna work.he lacked plate discipline coming up ... now he has reached the level where talent can't overcome it and the pitchers are good enough to exploit it

WMR
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
Hell Yeah Baby!!!!!

NC Reds
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

GAC
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
Ramon with a 2 run Hr!!!!

Degenerate39
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
"HOW ABOUT THAT!"

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:48 PM
DING DING DING DING...ER!!!! Ramon with a 2 run shot! WOO HOO!

Mario-Rijo
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
Sweeeeeetttt, Ramon got it! :beerme:

CrackerJack
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
I speak to soon..Ramon comes through

Hoosier Red
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
Wooo hooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Get cordero warmed up!

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
I'd pinch hit with Nix here. Hernandez is a doubleplay waiting to happen.

Told ya;)

Red in Chicago
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
Ramon took that one out on the homeplate ump after some questionable strike calls:cool:

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
In the NL, the Reds offense is....

14th in runs, B/A,
16th in hits, total bases, SLG%
15th in OPS

5th in walks. Plus they've played the second-fewest games in all of baseball.

Awfully early to be looking at team OPS. Let's just say that four principals have OB % over .375 right now. No, they're not extraordinary, but to point the offense out as the problem is just seeing what your preconceptions see as wrong with the team. As usual, it's the pitching that is absolutely killing this team.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:49 PM
Nix sits down and Agon stays in to hit

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:50 PM
nice swing by Hernandez ... has Valverde thrown an off speed pitch this inning? He looks like a pitcher with an injury problem

BCubb2003
04-17-2009, 11:50 PM
So Cueto, Lincoln, Herrera and Masset are out-pitching Oswalt, Geary, Hawkins and Valverde.

durl
04-17-2009, 11:51 PM
Have to admit that I never expected THAT. Wow.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:51 PM
Nix sits down and Agon stays in to hit

Boy I wish they'd give some bats to Janish. I hate Wayne Krivsky.

Kc61
04-17-2009, 11:51 PM
Yet Oswalt only pitched 6...and still has a slightly higher era than Cueto

Cueto's a young #4, I'll give him some slack, if the Reds had a 2 run lead maybe he stays in an finishes it out.

I do know that 0 runs won't win you any games, so I'm not sure what all the hub-bub is about.

I guess for me it's not the number of runs, or hits, or walks JCueto allowed, it's how his night ended. He'll never meet his potential if he loses it like that. Well, hopefully they'll win and the fifth inning will be a distant memory.

WMR
04-17-2009, 11:51 PM
Defensive sub: Janish for Gonzo.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:51 PM
5th in walks. Plus they've played the second-fewest games in all of baseball.

Awfully early to be looking at team OPS. Let's just say that four principals have OB % over .375 right now. No, they're not extraordinary, but to point the offense out as the problem is just seeing what your preconceptions see as wrong with the team. As usual, it's the pitching that is absolutely killing this team.

Agreed. I'm curious how bad we rank in walks allowed. That's the area of the pitching staff that's killed us so far.

Also, that ranking of 5th in walks is even MORE impressive when you consider the games we've played...or lack thereof.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:52 PM
So Cueto, Lincoln, Herrera and Masset are out-pitching Oswalt, Geary, Hawkins and Valverde.

Masset gets the game ball if they win.

Degenerate39
04-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Boy I wish they'd give some bats to Janish. I hate Wayne Krivsky.

He would be getting a lot of at bats if it wasn't for Krivsky. Unforunately Brandon Phillips wouldn't be

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:52 PM
So Cueto, Lincoln, Herrera and Masset are out-pitching Oswalt, Geary, Hawkins and Valverde.or the Reds little ball is bigger than the Astros little ball. It is interesting that the new Reds are every bit as dependent on the long ball as the old Reds.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Giving Coco time to warm up...

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 11:54 PM
No matter what, no 'W' for Roy O. tonight!!! Sweet.

Gallen5862
04-17-2009, 11:54 PM
Is Masset or COCO pitching the 9th. I hope its Coco.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:55 PM
Is Masset or COCO pitching the 9th. I hope its Coco.they just PH for Masset

Degenerate39
04-17-2009, 11:55 PM
I really like this team. I always feel like they have a chance to win. The only down fall I see is the bottom of the lineup and the bench. Other than that I think this will be one heck of a team.

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:56 PM
I really like this team. I always feel like they have a chance to win. The only down fall I see is the bottom of the lineup and the bench. Other than that I think this will be one heck of a team.

You *have* watched Volquez's first two starts, right?

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 11:57 PM
Cordero in for the save...

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:57 PM
Please don't rip my heart out Cordero...A win here would be huge to start the series.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:57 PM
You *have* watched Volquez's first two starts, right?

You *did* watch Volquez last season, right?

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:57 PM
Don't kill us CoCo. Throw strikes.

flyer85
04-17-2009, 11:58 PM
West has been flat awful ... especially favoring the Stros

Falls City Beer
04-17-2009, 11:58 PM
You *did* watch Volquez last season, right?

For a young pitcher, one season does not a pattern make.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2009, 11:59 PM
One down. soft dribbler back to Cordero.

mbgrayson
04-17-2009, 11:59 PM
Pence hits a chopper back to Cordero, 1 out.

OnBaseMachine
04-17-2009, 11:59 PM
West has been flat awful ... especially favoring the Stros

Exactly. That 1-0 pitch to Pence was perfect and he called it a ball.

Degenerate39
04-18-2009, 12:00 AM
You *have* watched Volquez's first two starts, right?

Yes sir. And you said it right in your post "two starts".

flyer85
04-18-2009, 12:00 AM
For a young pitcher, one season does not a pattern make.
neither does 2 starts. Just what Volquez will be going forward is an issue but 2 starts is not necessarily a huge concern. The Reds have a lot bigger issues than Volquez.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2009, 12:00 AM
NASTY splitter there. :O)

Gallen5862
04-18-2009, 12:00 AM
Who is batting for the Stros? Are their any outs or baserunners?

guttle11
04-18-2009, 12:00 AM
That 2-1 splitter to Blum was as nasty a pitch as I've seen in a long time.

OnBaseMachine
04-18-2009, 12:01 AM
Another perfect 1-1 pitch to Blum...called a ball. Now Blum singles.

Degenerate39
04-18-2009, 12:01 AM
Who is batting for the Stros? Are their any outs or baserunners?

1 out. Blum singles. IROD is up

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2009, 12:01 AM
Single to center for Blum. Durnit.

GAC
04-18-2009, 12:01 AM
5th in walks.

Can't cherry pick. As you stated earlier....ya gotta get'em across the plate. And the Reds ain't!


Plus they've played the second-fewest games in all of baseball

That doesn't mean squat.


Let's just say that four principals have OB % over .375 right now.

What four principals? ESPN has OB% at .333 :p: which is below MLB average right now.


but to point the offense out as the problem

Big part of the problem.


what your preconceptions see as wrong with the team

And what are your preconceived notions as to what is wrong with this team?......


As usual, it's the pitching that is absolutely killing this team.

Ridiculous. Our pitching is not "absolutely killing us". Yes, we have had some shaky starts by a couple guys - but also some excellent performances early by guys like BA and Harang. And Cueto did a good job tonight.

And our bullpen has been very solid - other then Burton the other night (and he was hurt).

I see continued improvement from our pitching. I don't see it from this offense.

Falls City Beer
04-18-2009, 12:02 AM
neither does 2 starts. Just what Volquez will be going forward is an issue but 2 starts is not necessarily a huge concern. The Reds have a lot bigger issues than Volquez.

I can think of none. A solid offense and an improved defense (with a lot of hitting talent in the minors--but no pitching talent). I'd say the next three years rest pretty squarely on Volquez's shoulder(s).

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2009, 12:02 AM
Pence grounded out to Cordero
Blum singled to center
Pudge up

flyer85
04-18-2009, 12:03 AM
just don't hang a slider

Falls City Beer
04-18-2009, 12:04 AM
Typical Cordero.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2009, 12:04 AM
Back to back singles up the middle.

1st & 2nd, 1 out. Jason smith up...hittless on the year.

flyer85
04-18-2009, 12:05 AM
I can think of none. A solid offense and an improved defense (with a lot of hitting talent in the minors--but no pitching talent). I'd say the next three years rest pretty squarely on Volquez's shoulder(s).other than the fact there is little evidence that this offense will be solid. Instead the evidence points to the exact opposite conclusion.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2009, 12:05 AM
Darn. It hit the roof and that's out of play. Just a strike.

NC Reds
04-18-2009, 12:05 AM
That was strange. The roof gets involved in the game.

Degenerate39
04-18-2009, 12:05 AM
Back to back singles up the middle.

1st & 2nd, 1 out. Jason smith up...hittless on the year.

That makes me nervous