View Full Version : Todd Coffey gets first save since '06....
_Sir_Charles_
04-19-2009, 11:25 PM
How good has Coffey looked since he's joined the Brew crew last season. Good lord.....
'08 9 games / 7.1 ip / 6 hits / 0 r / 2 bb / 7 k / 0.00 era
'09 7 games / 9.2 ip / 6 hits / 0 r / 3 bb / 5 k / 0.00 era / 1 save
Who is this guy and what has he done to the Todd Coffey that wore a Reds uniform?!?
Topcat
04-19-2009, 11:40 PM
How good has Coffey looked since he's joined the Brew crew last season. Good lord.....
'08 9 games / 7.1 ip / 6 hits / 0 r / 2 bb / 7 k / 0.00 era
'09 7 games / 9.2 ip / 6 hits / 0 r / 3 bb / 5 k / 0.00 era / 1 save
Who is this guy and what has he done to the Todd Coffey that wore a Reds uniform?!?
More confidence and progression in confidence ? Sorry but i will never bash Todd.
Tom Servo
04-20-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm glad for Todd but that's still a pretty small sample size at the moment.
mth123
04-20-2009, 04:31 AM
Aways liked Coffey. I'm happy for him. Not sure, but I think the high expectations here after his early season 2006 success caused some issues that snowballed. Classic case of a decent guy needing a change of scenery. I think he'll be a quality reliever for the next several years, but it probably wouldn't have happened in Cincy.
Topcat
04-20-2009, 05:10 AM
Aways liked Coffey. I'm happy for him. Not sure, but I think the high expectations here after his early season 2006 success caused some issues that snowballed. Classic case of a decent guy needing a change of scenery. I think he'll be a quality reliever for the next several years, but it probably wouldn't have happened in Cincy.
Very well put sir, and better yet why do former players need to be hated on ? Todd's brother belongs to this forum and personally bashing his family member I truly believe i in poor taste. Wish him well as he makes far more $$$$ than most of us and we should cheer him on except versus our team.
RedsFan75
04-20-2009, 09:13 AM
I always liked Todd, and really think mth123 put it best.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 09:25 AM
Anyone see another former RH Reds reliever Matt Belisle pitch yesterday in Dodger Stadium? He made that place look like Coors Field. It was ugly
bucksfan2
04-20-2009, 09:26 AM
Very well put sir, and better yet why do former players need to be hated on ? Todd's brother belongs to this forum and personally bashing his family member I truly believe i in poor taste. Wish him well as he makes far more $$$$ than most of us and we should cheer him on except versus our team.
My dislike for Coffey was based solely upon performance. As a Red he didn't perform well, especially after showing potential. He may have been a classic case of change of scenery and he may pitch better now. But at the same he seemed to start off hot each year he was with the Reds.
I don't wish him any ill will but since the Brewers play in the same division as the Reds the only time I hope he pitches well is against the Cubs and Cards.
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 09:29 AM
I certainly don't wish the guy ill will either. I'd say it's probably telling more than anything else if Coffey goes on to have a good career with the Brewers: this organization seldom turns pumpkins into carriages.
I certainly don't wish the guy ill will either. I'd say it's probably telling more than anything else if Coffey goes on to have a good career with the Brewers: this organization seldom turns pumpkins into carriages.
Phillips....Hamilton....Harang.....Arroyo...... Aurilia/Hatteberg (the ultimate definition of blood from a turnip)..... Cueto....Volquez....
I think sometimes we're too close to the fire and the light causes us to lose some resolution.... :cool:
cumberlandreds
04-20-2009, 09:38 AM
I suspect Coffey is one of many MLB players who will or have benefitted from a change of scenery. It wouldn't surprise me that Bailey will someday fall into that category too.
I hope Coffey does well except against the Reds. He seemed like a good guy who put everything into his his play.
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 09:42 AM
Phillips....Hamilton....Harang.....Arroyo...... Aurilia/Hatteberg (the ultimate definition of blood from a turnip)..... Cueto....Volquez....
I think sometimes we're too close to the fire and the light causes us to lose some resolution.... :cool:
Yeah, I was thinking more of pitchers. And of course, Arroyo was the same pitcher in Boston as here.
I've made the point many times that hitters improve here.
I've asked this before: which pitchers--outside of Harang--have improved since coming to Cincinnati (in the last ten years or so)? (Volquez was pretty much the same pitcher in Texas as here, as well).
Phillips....Hamilton....Harang.....Arroyo...... Aurilia/Hatteberg (the ultimate definition of blood from a turnip)..... Cueto....Volquez....
I think sometimes we're too close to the fire and the light causes us to lose some resolution.... :cool:
Phillips. Top prospect.
Hamilton. Former #1 overall pick
Harang was solid, and blossomed. half point.
Arroyo is who he always was. Boston had different expectations I guess.
Aurilia/Hatteberg One resurrected his career in a hitters park, one ended his career in the same park
Cueto was a Latin America FA signee that progressed naturally through the system.
Volquez was the Rangers version of Homer Bailey.
Really, Harang was the only pumpkin in that group.
Coffey was a late round pick that ended up pitching much better than anyone in the Reds org probably ever expected. And when he struggled, reds fans did their usual thing. turn on him like a pack of hungry dogs. I love the Reds, but their fans pretty much suck.
Yeah, I was thinking more of pitchers. And of course, Arroyo was the same pitcher in Boston as here.
I've made the point many times that hitters improve here.
I've asked this before: which pitchers--outside of Harang--have improved since coming to Cincinnati (in the last ten years or so)? (Volquez was pretty much the same pitcher in Texas as here, as well).
The entire Reds rotation is pretty much comprised of items from the Island of Misfit Toys.
westofyou
04-20-2009, 09:55 AM
8 out save, that's old school.
BuckeyeRedleg
04-20-2009, 10:28 AM
Coffey was a late round pick that ended up pitching much better than anyone in the Reds org probably ever expected. And when he struggled, reds fans did their usual thing. turn on him like a pack of hungry dogs. I love the Reds, but their fans pretty much suck.
I think most fans "turn" on players when they stink up the joint. Especially fans that are frustrated with years of losing. I don't think Cincinnati holds a monopoly on sucky fans.
I also don't think fans care one way or another where a player came from. You blow enough games, and the fans will turn on you, whether you are Danny Graves or whether you are Todd Coffey.
I think sometimes the players get the brunt of fan's frustration, because it's the only way the fans have a way of showing their disproval of an incompetent front office. Is it right? No. Is it fair? Probably not. Is any fan base out there innocent in "turning on it's players"? Nope.
These same fans booed Griff when he got hurt, AND tried to pour beer on him. the city is too impatient, begging for a winner, and I do get that, but the city has a history of NOT supporting the Reds, even in good times.
BCubb2003
04-20-2009, 10:42 AM
Todd come out of nowhere, and pitched decently at the end of a season when there was absolutely no one left in the bullpen. And seeing the big guy come running in to the mound gave people visions of Rob Dibble. Because his brother posted here, we had probably a more forgiving attitude toward his struggles than most players get. If only Corey Patterson's brother had posted here.
It seems like relievers are prime candidates to benefit from a change of scenery. Another team can wipe the slate clean of previous meltdowns, tuck the guy into low-stress situations, especially if there's a decent bullpen around around him that doesn't let in every inherited run, and start to figure out how to use him.
mth123
04-20-2009, 10:46 AM
It seems like relievers are prime candidates to benefit from a change of scenery. Another team can wipe the slate clean of previous meltdowns, tuck the guy into low-stress situations, especially if there's a decent bullpen around around him that doesn't let in every inherited run, and start to figure out how to use him.
Best point in the entire thread.:clap:
smith288
04-20-2009, 10:47 AM
Coffey was a late round pick that ended up pitching much better than anyone in the Reds org probably ever expected. And when he struggled, reds fans did their usual thing. turn on him like a pack of hungry dogs. I love the Reds, but their fans pretty much suck.
Though you make a valid point, the Reds fans don't suck.
Always Red
04-20-2009, 10:52 AM
Though you make a valid point, the Reds fans don't suck.
I don't think we suck, either. We're frustrated with 10 straight years of losing, and little hope on the horizon.
Coffey has a great arm, always had. He could not locate last year; everything was right over the heart of the plate. 95 mph fastballs over the heart are going to get whacked, if that's all you have. Majewski had the same problem last year- 93-94 mph right down Broadway.
Good for Todd Coffey. He's a stand-up guy, and I hope he continues to do well, except against the Reds.
bucksfan2
04-20-2009, 10:57 AM
These same fans booed Griff when he got hurt, AND tried to pour beer on him. the city is too impatient, begging for a winner, and I do get that, but the city has a history of NOT supporting the Reds, even in good times.
Its not fair to take the actions of a couple of drunken fans and portray the entire fan base poorly.
_Sir_Charles_
04-20-2009, 11:17 AM
Very well put sir, and better yet why do former players need to be hated on ? Todd's brother belongs to this forum and personally bashing his family member I truly believe i in poor taste. Wish him well as he makes far more $$$$ than most of us and we should cheer him on except versus our team.
Umm...I hope somebody didn't think my original post was bashing him. I like the kid and wish him well. I just found it remarkable the immediate turnaround his performances took once he changed teams. I know it's a small sample size and all, but he's been flat out impressive. Only wish it could've been in a Reds uniform.
Its not fair to take the actions of a couple of drunken fans and portray the entire fan base poorly.
Sure it is.
Just like I can point to poor attendance in 1999, or how about how Danny Graves family was treated. I'm not talking about devoted fans. I'm not talking intelligent fans. I'm talking the fair weather walkup fans. Who had better attendance in the '90s, Cincinnati or St. Louis? and in that same decade, which team had more success?
Yet Paul Brown Stadium and the walking police lineup they throw out there has rabid fan worship despite going on two decades of incompetence. It irks me is all. I live 400 miles from the nearest MLB team. I try to see the Rangers live at least once a summer, but it's an expensive trip. 6 hours there, 6 back. If I lived in Cincinnati, when I lived in Cincinnati, I'd go to at least a game a week, whether we really could afford it or not.
People wonder why big name FA's don't want to come to Cincinnati? Reds fans turned on one of the greatest players of all time. Think that doesn't get around?
MartyFan
04-20-2009, 11:18 AM
I don't think it is fair to blame the players for poor leadership...it was here long before the teams turned into a habitual loser...first bad leader...Marge...passionate about the team but blew up the farm system that made it great...next, Mr. Lindner...A truly kind man who loved his hometown team but didn't have the sense to know who to get rid of and who to keep in his management team...Mr. C...I loved the Special K hiring and still think he should be our GM...Walt is a proven winner and that is what Mr. C is going for, especially with their history together...so, we'll see where this version of Reds Leadership takes us.
Always Red
04-20-2009, 11:26 AM
People wonder why big name FA's don't want to come to Cincinnati?
Because the Reds can't afford them and because the team doesn't win?
I wonder how long until Mark Teixeira hears the first boos in Yankee Stadium? You know it's coming. It's not just Reds fans that are different these days- and I agree with you on the subject of the booing of Griffey- especially when he was hurt and lying on the ground in CF. It made me sick.
Fans everywhere are less kinder and gentler than they used to be. IMO, it's a much ruder world out there than it was 20 years ago.
westofyou
04-20-2009, 11:29 AM
People wonder why big name FA's don't want to come to Cincinnati? Reds fans turned on one of the greatest players of all time. Think that doesn't get around?
Because historically they haven't played that market?
Because that's the real reason.
rotnoid
04-20-2009, 11:42 AM
It seems like relievers are prime candidates to benefit from a change of scenery. Another team can wipe the slate clean of previous meltdowns, tuck the guy into low-stress situations, especially if there's a decent bullpen around around him that doesn't let in every inherited run, and start to figure out how to use him.
I think that's the key to the Coffey situation. While he was here, I think most would agree that he was over used/misused by the stream of managers we've had. It seemed clear early on to me, that he wasn't great 3 days in a row, but I seem to recall many times running him out there game after game. You have to think fatigue started to play a factor. The strong starts he had nearly ever season faltered after he showed himself as one of very few capable bullpen arms at the time.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 11:47 AM
I've asked this before: which pitchers--outside of Harang--have improved since coming to Cincinnati (in the last ten years or so)? (Volquez was pretty much the same pitcher in Texas as here, as well).
Oh yeah right.
Volquez was 3-11 7.20 with Texas and 19-7 3.34 with the Reds. Yep, I'd say he was pretty much the same pitcher :rolleyes:
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 11:52 AM
People wonder why big name FA's don't want to come to Cincinnati? Reds fans turned on one of the greatest players of all time. Think that doesn't get around?
Griffey didn't treat the fans too well either. Need I remind you his quote "They (the fans of Cincinnati) want to see me fail." He often refused post game interviews and boycotted WLW. He was a hard guy to fall in love with.
Given the past decade I'd say Cincinnati fans are amazingly resilient. Perhaps they support the Reds to a fault.
Because historically they haven't played that market?
Because that's the real reason.
Not in the last 10 years or so. Since 1999, they have made pitches to top FA's, and rarely if ever landed one. Recently what springs to mind was settling for Milton after other FA's went elsewhere. Perhaps that trend is changing with the Cordero signing.
Be nice if the city showed more support though.
Sorry for derailing this topic BTW.
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 11:57 AM
Oh yeah right.
Volquez was 3-11 7.20 with Texas and 19-7 3.34 with the Reds. Yep, I'd say he was pretty much the same pitcher :rolleyes:
That's only if you look at small-sample MLB performance. His minors numbers were pretty similar to what he put up in his first year with Cincy.
bucksfan2
04-20-2009, 12:05 PM
Not in the last 10 years or so. Since 1999, they have made pitches to top FA's, and rarely if ever landed one. Recently what springs to mind was settling for Milton after other FA's went elsewhere. Perhaps that trend is changing with the Cordero signing.
Be nice if the city showed more support though.
Sorry for derailing this topic BTW.
In the past 10 years it has appeared that they made pitches to top FA's. IMO that was more an organizational leaking in order to keep the fans happy. We would constantly hear we made a "fair offer" but said player went elsewhere. I remember shortly after the Sean Casey trade that money was supposedly offered up to Matt Morris. I think its a good thing he didn't accept the Reds offer.
SMcGavin
04-20-2009, 12:08 PM
It seems like relievers are prime candidates to benefit from a change of scenery. Another team can wipe the slate clean of previous meltdowns, tuck the guy into low-stress situations, especially if there's a decent bullpen around around him that doesn't let in every inherited run, and start to figure out how to use him.
Good point. Relievers also operate in small sample sizes, so they are prime candidates for people to think "turnaround" when it's just luck correcting.
Coffey in Milwaukee has been the same guy he was here as far as Ks and BBs go. The difference has been completely from a changed HR rate. Is that a legit change or just going from really unlucky to really lucky? I don't think we have enough data to say at this point.
RedlegJake
04-20-2009, 12:13 PM
Point one: To the original topic - I really wish Todd the best except when he pitches against the Reds. I agree with the "change of scenery". Sometimes guys just reach a point when they get stuck in a bad spot where they're at. Happens to players on every team in baseball. Todd was always a class act even when things were tough and I hope he has a solid career.
As to the fans - living near KC I catch a couple Royals games every year. Talk about a hapless franchise since Ewing K died. But the fans are consistent and seem knowledgeable when I talk to those around me. Maybe the suckitude has driven away the casual knuckleheads. Now the corner seems to be turning to at least a semblance of competitiveness for the Royals and the fans really are behind them. It just seems to be much less pessimism in the air than when the Reds are discussed but then, most of my interaction per the Reds is from boards and online discussions or Cards fans who are legion here. (Which is, I suppose, an indictment of sorts about KC fans who root for another city's team as much as they do their own - it would be like Cincinnati fans rooting for the Indians more than the Reds). Sometimes I think the great BRM teams of the 70s ruined the fans in Cincinnati. Those memories seem to have a long reach.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 12:17 PM
That's only if you look at small-sample MLB performance. His minors numbers were pretty similar to what he put up in his first year with Cincy.
So we're comparing minors numbers with major league performance? His minors numbers were all over the board like they often are. Suffice to say, the Rangers did not project him to put up the numbers he has so far with Cincinnati. He was projected to "maybe" be their 5th starter. Some things I read out of Texas said they weren't even going to give him a shot at that, hence the trade.
I agree with you, not a lot of players have improved after coming to the Reds but (so far) Volquez is as poor an example as you can come up with.
westofyou
04-20-2009, 12:30 PM
Sometimes I think the great BRM teams of the 70s ruined the fans in Cincinnati. Those memories seem to have a long reach. No more then the Weaver era O's ruined the Baltimore fan base. Losing creates the apathy and the continued grasp to the glory of the past in most cases. However the city itself (press, memorials, streets, old men) do cling a tad tight to the BRM. It's the sign of reverence as well as a sign that not much else has happened sports wise in the city since then.
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 12:45 PM
So we're comparing minors numbers with major league performance? His minors numbers were all over the board like they often are. Suffice to say, the Rangers did not project him to put up the numbers he has so far with Cincinnati. He was projected to "maybe" be their 5th starter. Some things I read out of Texas said they weren't even going to give him a shot at that, hence the trade.
I agree with you, not a lot of players have improved after coming to the Reds but (so far) Volquez is as poor an example as you can come up with.
You can look at very small samples from 2005 and 2006 for a comp; I'd rather look at the 144 innings he threw in the minors where he put up these numbers in 2007: BB/9= 3.7 and K/9 = 10.3. Then in 2008 in Cincy he went: BB/9 = 4.27 and K/9 = 9.46.
I'd say Volquez looked in 2008 a whole lot like the guy who threw a whole season in the minors in 2007 for the Rangers.
Harang really is the only starter who has seen core metrics improve since coming over from Oakland.
dsmith421
04-20-2009, 12:58 PM
Griffey didn't treat the fans too well either. Need I remind you his quote "They (the fans of Cincinnati) want to see me fail." He often refused post game interviews and boycotted WLW. He was a hard guy to fall in love with.
Was he wrong?
For what it's worth, Griffey boycotting WLW and its zoo of clowns, halfwits, and blowhards only raises his stature in my eyes.
mth123
04-20-2009, 01:12 PM
Re: Volquez
He was considered a TOR prospect in Texas. He was a part of the DVD trio with John Danks and Thomas Diamond that were considered TOR guys. Its unfair to categorize him as a 5th starter that the Reds turned around.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 02:29 PM
Was he wrong?
For what it's worth, Griffey boycotting WLW and its zoo of clowns, halfwits, and blowhards only raises his stature in my eyes.
Absolutely he was wrong. Cincinnati fans wanted him to hit 50 Hrs and lead them to the playoffs
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 02:31 PM
Re: Volquez
He was considered a TOR prospect in Texas. He was a part of the DVD trio with John Danks and Thomas Diamond that were considered TOR guys. Its unfair to categorize him as a 5th starter that the Reds turned around.
It's perfectly fair. He was penciled in as "maybe" a 5th starter in 2008 for the Rangers.
This from 12-21-07:
The Rangers had to give up one of their top five starters to get Hamilton. Volquez was 2-1 with a 4.50 ERA in six games in September and was penciled in as the Rangers' fifth starter going into Spring Training.
http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071221&content_id=2336081&vkey=news_tex&fext=.jsp&c_id=tex
How quickly they forget...
Good point. Relievers also operate in small sample sizes, so they are prime candidates for people to think "turnaround" when it's just luck correcting.
Coffey in Milwaukee has been the same guy he was here as far as Ks and BBs go. The difference has been completely from a changed HR rate. Is that a legit change or just going from really unlucky to really lucky? I don't think we have enough data to say at this point.
aka "the Derek Turnbow syndrome"
It's perfectly fair. He was penciled in as "maybe" a 5th starter in 2008 for the Rangers.
This from 12-21-07:
http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071221&content_id=2336081&vkey=news_tex&fext=.jsp&c_id=tex
How quickly they forget...
Name one, ONE minor league prospect pitcher that was penciled in higher than #5 starter in any rotation. That simply doesn't happen often. He was the Rangers minor league pitcher of the year at one point. that ain't pumpkin-like.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 03:07 PM
Name one, ONE minor league prospect pitcher that was penciled in higher than #5 starter in any rotation. That simply doesn't happen often. He was the Rangers minor league pitcher of the year at one point. that ain't pumpkin-like.
What's a minor league prospect pitcher? Is that kind of like an almost rookie?
I'm not going to get into an argument of who's a minor league prospect pitcher. I proved that it was very fair to call this pitcher a 5th starter at the time of the trade because that's exactly what he was. End of discussion
Razor Shines
04-20-2009, 03:08 PM
Name one, ONE minor league prospect pitcher that was penciled in higher than #5 starter in any rotation. That simply doesn't happen often. He was the Rangers minor league pitcher of the year at one point. that ain't pumpkin-like.
Yeah. Volquez was going to be with the Rangers what he is with the Reds, IMO. He had the talent, there was a pretty good chance that eventually he was going to put it together.
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 03:09 PM
End of discussion
Speak for yourself. (I guess you are).
Razor Shines
04-20-2009, 03:18 PM
What's a minor league prospect pitcher? Is that kind of like an almost rookie?
I'm not going to get into an argument of who's a minor league prospect pitcher. I proved that it was very fair to call this pitcher a 5th starter at the time of the trade because that's exactly what he was. End of discussion
You used a quote from the Ranger's web site the day after they traded Volquez. I wouldn't think that a team is going to "talk up" a guy they just traded on a site aimed toward their fans.
There aren't many 23 year old prospects that are penciled in higher than a 5th starter. His rookie year was with the Reds, so yeah, he was still a prospect.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 03:29 PM
His rookie year was with the Reds, so yeah, he was still a prospect.
You guys keep drawing me back in here to correct your mistakes. No, his rookie year was not with the Reds.
Although I might add there are three stupid sportswriters that think so. Here's last year's voting:
2008 NL Rookie of the Year Voting
Player, Club 1st 2nd 3rd Points
Geovany Soto, CHC 31 1 158
Joey Votto, CIN 1 21 8 76
Jair Jurrjens, ATL 6 16 34
Edinson Volquez, CIN* 3 9
Jay Bruce, CIN 7 7
Kosuke Fukudome, CHC 1 1 4
* Volquez received votes despite being ineligible as a rookie.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081110&content_id=3672675&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb#nlroyvote
dougdirt
04-20-2009, 03:31 PM
Absolutely he was wrong. Cincinnati fans wanted him to hit 50 Hrs and lead them to the playoffs
Sure... then 2002 rolled around and a much larger than it should have been group wanted to see him fail. They boo'd him after he separated his shoulder diving for a ball. The things I heard directed at him while sitting in the outfield seats for over 100 games while he was in Cincinnati was mind boggling. He was treated from 2003-2008 by some fans like he was an opponent in the things they would scream at him and taunt him with, in Cincinnati by his own 'fans'.
To say he was a 5th starter that the Reds turned around was the point. He wasn't Jimmy Haynes.
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 03:41 PM
I still don't think the fans wanted him to hit .240. They were frustrated that his production was not what it was in Seattle.
A pitcher doesn't have major league quality command until he does. Concerning Volquez, there was no question about his stuff but I think the Rangers got tired of waiting for it to come around and went with a bird in the hand (safer bet-a position player).
Sea Ray
04-20-2009, 03:45 PM
Did any of the projection services project him to be 17-7 with an ERA a little over 3 in March last year?
The Reds developed Volquez beyond their dreams in 2008. No one could have expected better of him. He represents a success story for the Reds coaching staff
Did any of the projection services project him to be 17-7 with an ERA a little over 3 in March last year?
The Reds developed Volquez beyond their dreams in 2008. No one could have expected better of him. He represents a success story for the Reds coaching staff
The Reds didn't develop jack with Volquez. It was a combination of talent and switching leagues. Soto may have improved his changeup, but that's about it. And while he still isn't a finished product, he certainly has a book that every opposing pitching coach has. They know his limitations and weaknesses. He's a work in progress.
What he wasn't is a failed prospect, 29 years old and looking at a AAAA tag as a minor league lifer.
Did any of the projection services project him to be 17-7 with an ERA a little over 3 in March last year?
The Reds developed Volquez beyond their dreams in 2008. No one could have expected better of him. He represents a success story for the Reds coaching staff
Here's what an average of the available projection systems projected for Volquez's 2008:
Player IP ERA FIP GB% K/9 BB/9 K/BB HR/9
EV 138 4.99 4.88 42 7.65 4.27 1.79 1.35
He took a major step last season as a Red. That said, I'm not sure that the Reds should get credit for his development.
So...that Todd Coffey...what a guy!
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 04:10 PM
Here's what an average of the available projection systems projected for Volquez's 2008:
Player IP ERA FIP GB% K/9 BB/9 K/BB HR/9
EV 138 4.99 4.88 42 7.65 4.27 1.79 1.35
He took a major step last season as a Red. That said, I'm not sure that the Reds should get credit for his development.
He took a major step (insofar as jumping to the majors as a pitcher is the biggest "step" perhaps in all of sportsdom), but his numbers in 2007 had arrows pointing dead in the direction of success.
If the Reds were instrumental in Volquez's transition it was to provide bus fare, not air fare or even cab fare....
bucksfan2
04-20-2009, 04:11 PM
So...that Todd Coffey...what a guy!
He sure sparks debate doesn't he.
Falls City Beer
04-20-2009, 04:13 PM
He sure sparks debate doesn't he.
Beats the ever-lovin' pants off Dunn vs. whoever and Marty vs. whoever and Willy Taveras vs. yo momma....
mth123
04-20-2009, 04:48 PM
He took a major step (insofar as jumping to the majors as a pitcher is the biggest "step" perhaps in all of sportsdom), but his numbers in 2007 had arrows pointing dead in the direction of success.
If the Reds were instrumental in Volquez's transition it was to provide bus fare, not air fare or even cab fare....
This is right. The Reds dealt for a guy on the way up and paid a big price for it. They didn't do much to develop him. That work was done in Texas.
Highlifeman21
04-20-2009, 10:45 PM
So...that Todd Coffey...what a guy!
But apparently he's no Maceo, er, Edinson Volquez...
I thought it was interesting that Coffey's on the record saying the Reds told him to stop throwing his sinker, which is his only redeeming pitch.
Either Todd misunderstood the Reds, or the Reds misunderstood/underestimated Todd's abilities.
Maybe a combination of both.
But apparently he's no Maceo, er, Edinson Volquez...
I thought it was interesting that Coffey's on the record saying the Reds told him to stop throwing his sinker, which is his only redeeming pitch.
Either Todd misunderstood the Reds, or the Reds misunderstood/underestimated Todd's abilities.
Maybe a combination of both.
They told him to quit eating sliders.
Highlifeman21
04-20-2009, 10:59 PM
They told him to quit eating sliders.
All that sprinting nonsense from the bullpen to the mound just never helped combat his love for the belly bomber(s).
dsmith421
04-20-2009, 11:09 PM
Absolutely he was wrong. Cincinnati fans wanted him to hit 50 Hrs and lead them to the playoffs
And I want to marry Paz Vega. Sometimes we don't get what we want, doesn't entitle people to act like spoiled crybabies and boo a guy who is injured.
Team Clark
04-20-2009, 11:13 PM
They told him to quit eating sliders.
I haven't stopped laughing for 5 minutes....
I guess it didn't help Todd that he was throwing balls right down the MIDDLE of the PLATE consistently. Sinker or no sinker, he was a real stinker. Tipped his pitches regularly and guys were teeing off on him. Glad he is having some success. Not sure how long it will last.
bucksfan2
04-21-2009, 08:46 AM
Has anyone seen him pitch this year? IIRC the Reds told Coffey to quit running in from the pen because he was gassed by the time he faced the first hitters. I don't know if that had anything to do with him leaving fastballs over the plate or not. But when he stopped his charge to the mound it looked as if he had some success.
919191
04-21-2009, 08:53 AM
I watched him charge in pretty fast last week. He's back to it, I guess.
westofyou
04-21-2009, 09:58 AM
Todd needs some more K's, 5 K's in 9 innings is a tightrope walk in the late innings.
paulrichjr
04-22-2009, 12:28 AM
Here is a VERY interesting article I found on Coffey
The highlighted part really seemed to suggest the real problem with Coffey.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/43320577.html
Philadelphia - As odd as it sounds, it was probably better for the Milwaukee Brewers that Jason Kendall singled instead of whacking a double with one out in the ninth inning Sunday at Citi Field.
The Brewers were clinging to a 3-2 lead over the New York Mets at the time, and had Kendall been in scoring position, manager Ken Macha was going to use Brad Nelson to bat for reliever Todd Coffey. Instead, Macha sent Coffey to the plate with orders to bunt.
On the bench, Coffey was scrambling to find the proper gear. Late-inning relief pitchers seldom get an at-bat and, in fact, Coffey hadn't stepped into a batter's box since 2005.
Borrowing a bat from right-hander Dave Bush and batting gloves from righty Yovani Gallardo, Coffey scraped off the rust and sacrificed Kendall to second. Rickie Weeks followed with a sharp single to left, boosting the Brewers' lead to two runs.
"That's desire," Macha said of Coffey, who was 0 for 3 with three strikeouts as a major-league hitter. "It was 96 mph and he deadened it right there. It was a perfect bunt."
More important, it kept Coffey in the game. He worked around a one-out infield hit by Jose Reyes in the bottom of the ninth to close out the Mets and record his first major-league save since 2006.
Coffey's day began with a tough assignment. Macha summoned him with the bases loaded and one out in the seventh inning and Mets cleanup hitter Carlos Delgado at the plate. Undaunted, Coffey induced a comebacker and initiated a 1-2-3 double play that snuffed the rally.
It was the third time this young season that Coffey was called upon with the bases full. Nine runners inherited. Nine runners left on base.
"I've come in that situation a lot over my career," said Coffey, 28. "You can't go for the strikeout there. You've got to get a groundball and get a double play.
"It's a tough situation. You can't give up a hit. That's two runs right there."
The Brewers have become accustomed to seeing Coffey get the job done. Since being claimed off waivers last September from Cincinnati, he has compiled 16 scoreless appearances covering 17 innings.
Macha had not seen Coffey pitch before spring training but had him penciled in his bullpen because of success last September. It wasn't until the Brewers got to Los Angeles for their final two exhibition games, however, that Macha noticed on the Dodger Stadium video board that Coffey was throwing his fastball in the 94-95 mph range.
"I didn't realize his velocity was that high," said Macha, noting that radar readings aren't flashed during exhibition games.
"His performance has been awesome. We've only had a few wins and he's played a big part in all of them, probably."
It has been a remarkable revival for a pitcher the Reds deemed no longer useful at the major-league level. To his credit, Coffey bites his tongue a bit when reflecting on his exodus from Cincinnati, but there are obvious scars.
Without going into great detail, Coffey noted that Reds pitching coach Dick Pole wasn't a fan of the big right-hander's favorite pitch, a sinking fastball.
"Their philosophy was to go with a four-seamer away," said Coffey. "So, it was a philosophical difference. We agreed to disagree."
Coffey spent two stints with Cincinnati last season, compiling a 6.05 ERA in 17 appearances before being returned to the minors at the end of July. Not only did the Reds exclude Coffey from their list of September call-ups, they released him on his birthday (Sept. 9), something he hasn't forgotten.
"The Brewers claimed me the next day. It was the best thing that could have happened to me," said Coffey, who was shopping at a home improvement store in his hometown of Rutherfordton, N.C., when his agent called with the news.
Coffey turned in nine scoreless relief outings down the stretch, helping the struggling Brewers hang on to win the National League wild-card playoff berth. He wasn't eligible to pitch in the post-season but accompanied the team to Philadelphia as a reward for his contributions.
Before Game 2 of the NLDS, Coffey received word that his grandfather, Albert Tendall Coffey, Jr., had passed away in North Carolina. Coffey left the team to attend the funeral, and he still gets teary-eyed when talking about that loss.
"We were very close," said Coffey, who has the initials "A.T." on his baseball cap to honor his grandfather. "I actually got to see him before I left to come to the Brewers. It was hard. He said, 'I'm ready to go home.' "
Unlike his final days with the Reds, Coffey said he felt wanted and welcomed upon joining the Brewers.
The players soon learned what a great guy Coffey is, if a bit unusual, and vice versa. Coffey was ahead of the curve with the recent hair-dying of players, going black on top while keeping his red goatee before breaking camp.
"When I came over here, I was here for a week and it felt like home," said Coffey.
"I can't explain it. For one, the guys are great. You've got everybody here behind you. I had the guys behind me in Cincinnati, too, but it's just different here. A change of scenery, I guess.
"I couldn't ask for anything better. The only thing that would be better is if the team wins."
Patrick Bateman
04-22-2009, 01:03 AM
He took a major step (insofar as jumping to the majors as a pitcher is the biggest "step" perhaps in all of sportsdom), but his numbers in 2007 had arrows pointing dead in the direction of success.
If the Reds were instrumental in Volquez's transition it was to provide bus fare, not air fare or even cab fare....
Ya, I thought the whole point of the Volquez trade was because he'd already appeared to make the required steps into transforming into a quality pitcher during the minor league season, and was on the brink of major league success.
It's not like it was a surprise when Volquez succeeded, in fact most people here saw it coming pretty clearly.
bucksfan2
04-22-2009, 08:37 AM
Ya, I thought the whole point of the Volquez trade was because he'd already appeared to make the required steps into transforming into a quality pitcher during the minor league season, and was on the brink of major league success.
It's not like it was a surprise when Volquez succeeded, in fact most people here saw it coming pretty clearly.
Javy Valentine didn't see it that way.
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