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View Full Version : Janish/Hanigan>>Gonzo/Hernandez



eastkyred
04-21-2009, 09:49 AM
Defensively, I don't see much difference in Gonzo and Janish. Both are very good. Hanigan looks better than Hernandez defensively. At the plate there is no comparison, right now. If we want to jump start the offensive, get Janish and Hanigan in the lineup more. Hernandez, Gonzo, and the pitcher are automatic outs (except when Owings pitches). Janish and Hanigan put the bat on the ball and bring some life to the back of the lineup.

xavr1
04-21-2009, 10:19 AM
I see what you are saying, but the only thing is that Hernandez and Gonzalez are proven commodities--Hernandez as an above average offensive C and Gonzalez as a decent hitter and super smooth SS. The book on Janish has always been that he's just a decent hitter--nothing special. That will rear its end soon. He's not gonna hit .400, or even .300, as an everday SS. Hanigan intrigues me a bit more, but again is unproven.

Now, that said, I dont think the leash for RH and Gonzo should be endless. I like how Dusty is giving the other guys starts liberally, but those two are paid as everyday starters and will get plenty of chances to establish themselves there.

Eric_the_Red
04-21-2009, 10:51 AM
LOL @ Janish "jump starting" an offense.

Also- how are you judging Hernandez' defense? Runners stealing? If so, that is faulty. From what I've seen most/all of the steals have come off the pitchers.

mroby85
04-21-2009, 12:04 PM
I agree that Janish may take the job from Gonzo before the year is up, but I think Hernandez will stick over Hanigan.

bounty37h
04-21-2009, 12:08 PM
I said the day we got him that I think Hernandez is this teams weak link. I don't think he calls a good game at all for one, and is lazy behind the plate-I go to a lot of O's games, and always walked away wondering how that dude was a MLB catcher still.

xavr1
04-21-2009, 12:10 PM
But do you think he's worse than Bako?

TheBigLebowski
04-21-2009, 12:20 PM
Seabass and Hernandez are making much more money and will therefore play.

bounty37h
04-21-2009, 12:31 PM
^I dont know, I never really got to see Bako enough to make that call, but thought I heard the pitchers liked pitching to him overall-but not sure of the info to make a full comparison between the 2. I do think he is a slight downgrade defensively from Ross, but has better bat potential. I am hoping the new team scene will help encourage him in his lazy play-thats my biggest problem, not adjusting, moving to block, setting up for pitch, and calling have all p'ed me off wathcing him in recent years.

schmidty622
04-21-2009, 01:07 PM
Seabass and Hernandez are making much more money and will therefore play.

I never got that argument. You are going to be paying them one way or the other. Why not just sit them if they suck, eat the cash and put yourself in the best position to win.

IMO, Janish and Hanigen have earned at least two starts a week, if not more.

terminator
04-21-2009, 01:33 PM
More importantly,

Hernandez + Hanigan > Bako & Ross
Gonzo & Janish >= Keppinger & Hairston (as a SS)

That said, I don't mind seeing Hanigan & Janish out there. They are both decent players to have. Also, with Gonzo's injury history there's a good chance you'll get your wish and we'll see plenty of Janish this year.

TheBigLebowski
04-21-2009, 01:33 PM
I never got that argument. You are going to be paying them one way or the other. Why not just sit them if they suck, eat the cash and put yourself in the best position to win.

IMO, Janish and Hanigen have earned at least two starts a week, if not more.

Not saying I agree with it - just saying that's the way it is.

PhillipsHead
04-21-2009, 01:55 PM
AT THIS POINT we need Janish and Hanigan until they start to level out. When most all of our lineup is struggling, at this point, we need to play our hottest hitters.

GOYA
04-21-2009, 02:29 PM
Add me to the list of folks that think AGon and Hernandez will play because of their salaries. Just because it's stupid doesn't mean it's not true.

Janish seems to be hitting above his likely average but Hanigan is not. Hanigan can hit for average and he's a very good defensive catcher with a great arm. He should have been the everyday starter. He also handles pitchers very well. The only thing he lacks is power. Even if Janish drops down to his likely BA, he'll still be doing better than AGon.

xavr1
04-21-2009, 03:06 PM
As for starting Hanigan at least twice a week, isnt there something to be said for having a regular catcher with whom the pitchers can build a rapport? Seems like that is the trend.

schmidty622
04-21-2009, 03:26 PM
As for starting Hanigan at least twice a week, isnt there something to be said for having a regular catcher with whom the pitchers can build a rapport? Seems like that is the trend.

It seems Hanigan is Arroyo's designated catcher. Just give him another pitcher that he always catches and I don't think you have any issue.

Hernandez catches Volquez, Cueto, and Owings.

Hanigan catches Harang and Arroyo.

Hernandez then gets 3/5th of the ABs, you keep him fresher through the course of the year and you still give Hanigan the opportunity he deserves.

eastkyred
04-21-2009, 04:26 PM
Why give the lesser of your two catching options 3/5 starts and your better option (offensively and defensively) 2/5 starts? I'm not saying that Hanigan will start getting more PT, I don't think he will. I'm saying he should. As far as Janish, I agree with the poster that said we should ride him while his bat is hot, or as long as Agon can't get a hit to save his life.

bounty37h
04-22-2009, 02:05 PM
After watching Hernandez last night, I am still sure I dont want him as our catcher. Dude sets up terrible, doesnt seem to call a very good game, and still looks lazy to me. At one point the announcer said Owens wasnt hitting his spots, said missing Hernandez's glove. I looked closely the next few pitches, Hern had his fricking glove set almost on the ground and not even setting a target or near the zone.

ian_madden
04-22-2009, 05:19 PM
[QUOTE=terminator;1844400]More importantly,

Hernandez + Hanigan > Bako & Ross
Gonzo & Janish >= Keppinger & Hairston (as a SS)

:beerme:

I completely agree. Kep was a slower Freel. He didn't have the spunk, but had a better bat. He is not the defender that Gonzo or Janish is. I like this situation we are in now. We have the older more experienced guy that has won, and the young guy that wants to win. I believe that it is Gonzo's job till he bats horribly in may. He need more at bats to get back to game speed.

I did not like Bako at all. that was one of the former cub players that Dusty brought in. Ross was a flash in the pan. We are in a better situation now.

Slyder
04-22-2009, 07:14 PM
would it be possible/plausible to shelve Gonzo for 2 wks then let him "rehab" at AAA and see if time away from the spotlight helps his stroke? Or even just send him down to AAA flat out? He looks like a guy who hasnt swung a bat in a year and a half... oh wait he hasnt. Yes Janish is far from a perfect fit but could he possible worse than 3 for the season like Gonzalez? Im not saying DFA the guy get him to take some abs at AAA and find his stroke and try and salvage whats been a lost contract. Maybe he could rebuild something and get us some beans at the deadline as a "glove guy with a bit of pop".

GOYA
04-22-2009, 09:08 PM
would it be possible/plausible to shelve Gonzo for 2 wks then let him "rehab" at AAA and see if time away from the spotlight helps his stroke? Or even just send him down to AAA flat out?

Where would he play? :D

It's true that Valaika isn't hitting either but in the long run, it's more important to give Valaika the ABs at Louisville.

Slyder
04-22-2009, 09:09 PM
Where would he play? :D

It's true that Valaika isn't hitting either but in the long run, it's more important to give Valaika the ABs at Louisville.

DH?

GOYA
04-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Actually, 2nd base wouldn't be a bad idea. But I really don't like Richar so that makes it easy for me. I don't see him being a DH and letting his glove go stale. Kinda funny to say that after so much time out of the game.

GOYA
05-02-2009, 01:02 AM
Hanigan - .412/.500/.471

At bats - 17

Hernandez - .262/.325/.420

At bats - 61

Giving credit where credit is due, Hernandez's last 5 games stats:

.353/.471/.471 - much improved

But compare Hanigan's last 5 games stats:

.429/.571/.500

Hanigan: thrown out 100% of base stealers (3/3)
Hernandez: thrown out 33% of base stealers (6/18)

Besides speak Spanish and cash paychecks, what does Hernandez do better than Hanigan?

And answer this, if you were an opposing manager, would you send a runner against Hanigan?

Captain Hook
05-02-2009, 05:13 AM
Defensively, I don't see much difference in Gonzo and Janish. Both are very good. Hanigan looks better than Hernandez defensively. At the plate there is no comparison, right now. If we want to jump start the offensive, get Janish and Hanigan in the lineup more. Hernandez, Gonzo, and the pitcher are automatic outs (except when Owings pitches). Janish and Hanigan put the bat on the ball and bring some life to the back of the lineup.

I completely agree.This is the big leagues.There is no trophies for second place so don't play the second best payers.Play whoever gives you the best chance to win no matter if its early in the season or who makes the most money.Gonzo/Hernandez have put up lesser numbers then Janish/Hanigan so far.Janish/Hanigan should be given a chance to play more because of that.Period.Period.Period...

improbus
05-02-2009, 09:43 AM
If we are going to go with the young, then let's go REALLY young. So, why not throw Janish and Hanigan in there? Their "growing pains" can't be too much worse than the vets "slow starts".

But, I'm not sure whether this debate really means a whole lot in the Reds overall record. This team is going to come down to the performance of Phillips in the 4 hole and EE if and when he ever comes back into form (or the majors...)

bigredbunter
05-02-2009, 10:27 AM
Defensively, I don't see much difference in Gonzo and Janish. Both are very good. Hanigan looks better than Hernandez defensively. At the plate there is no comparison, right now. If we want to jump start the offensive, get Janish and Hanigan in the lineup more. Hernandez, Gonzo, and the pitcher are automatic outs (except when Owings pitches). Janish and Hanigan put the bat on the ball and bring some life to the back of the lineup.

It's funny--Seeing both Janish and Gonzo in-person, I've felt since last year that Janish had more range than Gonzo. Qualitatively, I would argue with the line that "there isn't much difference between the two." Janish gets to balls that Gonzo does not.

What's odd is that Gonzo has a [I]slightly[I] higher range factor than Janish---Don't know whether RF is an accurate measure of how mobile the player is at their position, but I've always seen Janish as having more range than Gonzo.

big boy
05-02-2009, 10:54 AM
Hernandez is a leader out there. He is not afraid to call someone out when they boot one. He did that to EE last week.

Relax, though...both of these vets will be gone soon enough.