PDA

View Full Version : Hernandez and Gonzales



will5979
04-22-2009, 09:38 AM
I thought that the message of the Reds this year was starting over wth YOUTH? Why didn't we just cut our losses with AGon and never had traded for this Hernandez character and let Janish and HAnigan get the experience they desperately need for the next few years? IT just ticks me off the way this organization is ran.

Also what is with these Damn Pittsburgh Pirates? There is a better name for Pittsburgh but I can't post it on here, hint it starts with an "Sh." I tought they were suppose to be the celler dwellers. I really wish from the bottom of my heart that their franchise would just do MLB a favor and fold or move to the AL. They annoy me in this division and all they do is just get meaningless wins (especially against the Reds year after year after year.

CWRed
04-22-2009, 10:20 AM
Because there is still this myth that Agon is a great defensive player. But he's not. And he's coming off a terrible injury. Hernandez I don't mind but this offense is awful and not made any better with BP at cleanup. Yanish is not the answer but I'd rather see him in there every day just because of his defense. Look for Jocketty to make a big trade at some point this season or offseason. Agon needs to go. And it might be time to cut ties with BP if his horrendous hitting against righties doesn't improve. Oh and yes, fire Dusty, Pole, Jacoby, etc.

xavr1
04-22-2009, 11:22 AM
Dont worry about Pittsburgh. They will still end up in the cellar. I can almost guarantee it. Other than Maholm, the strong starts from their other guys are flukes.

tommycash
04-22-2009, 11:28 AM
I think we still have AGON because of his contract. He was a Krivsky signing, and I believe the real reason why Krivsky was fired, was because of the contracts the Reds had to eat. I don't think we will see too many contracts bought out by this club this year. I think AGON will be given a large number of at-bats this until late May, and if he isn't better by then, he will be on the bench for the rest of the season. As for Hernandez, he was a guy that Jocketty thought might be a spark in GABP. The jury is still out on that. Again, he will be a Red the rest of the year, but he will lose more at-bats to Hanigan in the long run after May if he doesn't get better. Hernandez is here because the Reds wanted a veteran who is better than Paul Bako behind the plate, and who we could trade Ryan Freel (and get rid of his terrible contract) for.

As for the youth movement, Janish and Rosales are not the SS of the future. Trying out a more proven AGON is not a bad idea, but Dusty needs to stop the bleeding if AGON continues to not produce. Janish and Rosales are solid SS off the bench, as we have better guys in our system that might be ready next year. Having AGON, Janish, and Rosales ready to play SS, to me, plays into our youth movement plan. Hernandez plays into that too, as he gave us a reason to get rid of Ryan Freel. Hanigan is not a long term option as a starter behind the plate, but he could be with us for a while as a back-up. After this year, we can assess our minor league catching core and see what we have.
Eventually, Dusty will need to sit down and stop playing Hernandez and AGON, but Big Bob and Walt will not eat their contracts, so they will be with the Reds the rest of the year, IMO.

will5979
04-22-2009, 02:15 PM
Thanks guys, all good info.

PhillipsHead
04-22-2009, 03:39 PM
Another point to bring up from last night, that I'm doubting anyone caught is how Hernandez called the game last night. Hernandez called a HORRIBLE game, namely during crunch time of the game when it was still on the line. Case in point: both hits by Aramis Ramirez. Ramirez is a professional hitter.....period. He will pull the ball when he gets something on the inner half, but he knows how to shoot it to right. When Owings had a 3-2 count on him, Hernandez called 4 consecutive pitches low and away. Ramirez fought of three, adjusted, and on the fourth, shot it to right for a run-scoring single. Next time Ramirez comes up against DRH, he does the exact same thing. Down in the count, Hernandez calls low and away, and he shoots it to right again....poor game management. If Hernandez isn't picking up his game at the plate, there is no reason for Hanigan to be sitting the bench any longer.

Eric_the_Red
04-22-2009, 03:42 PM
Another point to bring up from last night, that I'm doubting anyone caught is how Hernandez called the game last night. Hernandez called a HORRIBLE game, namely during crunch time of the game when it was still on the line. Case in point: both hits by Aramis Ramirez. Ramirez is a professional hitter.....period. He will pull the ball when he gets something on the inner half, but he knows how to shoot it to right. When Owings had a 3-2 count on him, Hernandez called 4 consecutive pitches low and away. Ramirez fought of three, adjusted, and on the fourth, shot it to right for a run-scoring single. Next time Ramirez comes up against DRH, he does the exact same thing. Down in the count, Hernandez calls low and away, and he shoots it to right again....poor game management. If Hernandez isn't picking up his game at the plate, there is no reason for Hanigan to be sitting the bench any longer.

Couldn't Owings shake him off if he didn't like the pitches/locations?

Kingspoint
04-22-2009, 03:47 PM
There was never a message that we were starting over with youth. I'm not sure where you got that from.


The only "direction" or "message" that Jockety announced to the public was that he wanted to improve the defense and that meant, getting a better catcher, seeing if Alex Gonzalez was healthy, and if he wasn't healthy, then finding an alternative, and that was it.

Fixing the defense would improve the pitching and would require that the team needed to score fewer runs to win. Thus, are the current results.

We are scoring a lot fewer runs, but we are winning. 7-6 so far. That projects out to 88-74, far exceeding expectations.

bgwilly31
04-22-2009, 03:52 PM
Another point to bring up from last night, that I'm doubting anyone caught is how Hernandez called the game last night. Hernandez called a HORRIBLE game, namely during crunch time of the game when it was still on the line. Case in point: both hits by Aramis Ramirez. Ramirez is a professional hitter.....period. He will pull the ball when he gets something on the inner half, but he knows how to shoot it to right. When Owings had a 3-2 count on him, Hernandez called 4 consecutive pitches low and away. Ramirez fought of three, adjusted, and on the fourth, shot it to right for a run-scoring single. Next time Ramirez comes up against DRH, he does the exact same thing. Down in the count, Hernandez calls low and away, and he shoots it to right again....poor game management. If Hernandez isn't picking up his game at the plate, there is no reason for Hanigan to be sitting the bench any longer.

I agree with you. I dont care how good your pitch is. If you throw the same pitch 3-4 consecutive times. By the 4th time chances are its going to get smacked.

Which is what happened in that case.

ian_madden
04-22-2009, 04:48 PM
I feel that AGON and Hernandez are just bridges to the younger players that we are building up in the farm system. these 2 are proven players, 1 has played in the world series and both are of Latin decent. They can help guide the young guns that we love, ie. Cueto, Volquez. Besides they are our 7 and 8 hitters. If Dusty wanted... he could bat them 8 and 9 when Ownings pitches. Wouldn't that be a sight.

Give AGON time, he hasn't really played in 1 and half. His bat will come alive. I agree that Janish and Hannigan have looked good, in their small sample, but you have to go with the proven guys in this scenario. Remember we are talking about 3 starts with the young guys, 3 starts.

bounty37h
04-22-2009, 05:19 PM
Another point to bring up from last night, that I'm doubting anyone caught is how Hernandez called the game last night. Hernandez called a HORRIBLE game, namely during crunch time of the game when it was still on the line. Case in point: both hits by Aramis Ramirez. Ramirez is a professional hitter.....period. He will pull the ball when he gets something on the inner half, but he knows how to shoot it to right. When Owings had a 3-2 count on him, Hernandez called 4 consecutive pitches low and away. Ramirez fought of three, adjusted, and on the fourth, shot it to right for a run-scoring single. Next time Ramirez comes up against DRH, he does the exact same thing. Down in the count, Hernandez calls low and away, and he shoots it to right again....poor game management. If Hernandez isn't picking up his game at the plate, there is no reason for Hanigan to be sitting the bench any longer.

Phillips, ding ding ding, thank you, I pointed that out as well in another thread, as well as his locations and lazy setup.

bounty37h
04-22-2009, 05:20 PM
Couldn't Owings shake him off if he didn't like the pitches/locations?

He shook him off several times actually, the announcers on WGN even commented a few times about the not being on the same page and didn't look good.

DTCromer
04-22-2009, 05:23 PM
Dont worry about Pittsburgh. They will still end up in the cellar. I can almost guarantee it. Other than Maholm, the strong starts from their other guys are flukes.

You are underestimating the crappiness of the Astors and Brewers as well. Those teams will disappoint and Pittsburgh's young and energetic and trying to make a name for themselves. I look for Pittsburgh to finish at least 4th in the Division.

Kingspoint
04-22-2009, 09:24 PM
I agree with you. I dont care how good your pitch is. If you throw the same pitch 3-4 consecutive times. By the 4th time chances are its going to get smacked.

Which is what happened in that case.

I don't get a chance to be behind home plate at games and watch closely how the Hernandez does things. It's almost impossible to tell on TV or from other parts of the ballpark. Even then, it's hard to judge. I'll have to trust you guys on this one that your source is from that perspective.