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nate
04-26-2009, 03:05 PM
Tidbit, today's monster offense features 7 hitters with a BA >.200!

Highlifeman21
04-26-2009, 03:07 PM
Owings is a Doubles Machine.

So is Votto, what's your point?

;)

Are doubles a good thing, or something?

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:07 PM
Willy T grounds out, 6-3. That's the end of the 6th, 8-0 Reds.

Willy down to:

273 .354 .345 .699

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:07 PM
I keep missing the good games by ONE day. I wish I could have seen this game when I was downtown yesterday! :(

Highlifeman21
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Willy down to:

273 .354 .345 .699

rut roh....

Sub .700 OPS

VR
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Phillips should be paying attention. Big slow pitcher goes with an outside pitch to drill it off the wall in rc, then hustles out of the box for a double.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Micah pwns Shaefer. ;)

nate
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Schaefer Ks to start the 7th.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
When it's time for Owings to come out, they should double switch someone out to keep his bat in the game.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Another big crowd today.

David freaking Ross homers.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Uh oh. David "Tin Man" Ross, hits a home run.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:09 PM
David Ross = Reds Killer

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:09 PM
There are too many Braves fans downtown. Why is there so much cheering for the opposing team hitting a HR?! :eek:

Tom Servo
04-26-2009, 03:09 PM
Psssh Ross.

VR
04-26-2009, 03:10 PM
Always liked David Ross.

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:10 PM
Even if the Braves score a late touchdown, they still have to go for a 2 pt conversion just to tie...

nate
04-26-2009, 03:10 PM
Norton grounds out, 5-3. 2 down.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:11 PM
Kelly Johnson goes the other way for a single.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:11 PM
Come on Micah...one more out!

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:12 PM
Great throw by Jay Bruce!

Boneheaded play by Escobar.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:12 PM
Never test the arm of the Bruce. ;)

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:12 PM
BRUCE!

nate
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Escobar follows with a flair that falls into right field but bails the Reds out by trying to stretch it and gets thrown out by Bruce at 2nd.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Great throw by Jay Bruce!

Boneheaded play by Escobar.

If Bruce would have hit him, would Escobar charge RF?

Highlifeman21
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
David Ross = Reds Killer

Is he related to Bill Hall?

Are they cousins?

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Not even close at second....Bruce hustled the Braves there....

VR
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Great throw by Jay Bruce!

Boneheaded play by Escobar.

Escobar going Reds on the Reds. How dare he!

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Beautiful rendition of God Bless America. :)

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:14 PM
There are so many good things from today's game to talk about.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:14 PM
Off topic>

It's really nice out today here in Georgia. Sitting on my parents screened in back porch watching the game.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Off topic>

It's really nice out today here in Georgia. Sitting on my parents screened in back porch watching the game.

I thought us stat geeks weren't allowed out of the basement?

:cool:

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Off topic>

It's really nice out today here in Georgia. Sitting on my parents screened in back porch watching the game.

Shouldn't you be in your mom's basement refining pythag? :cool:

nate
04-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Shouldn't you be in your mom's basement refining pythag? :cool:

Your thunder, stolen!

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Nix has hit the ball hard today. Good for him.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Nix lines out.

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:17 PM
Your thunder, stolen!

My mom thinks mine was funnier... :beerme:

nate
04-26-2009, 03:17 PM
Burton warming up.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:18 PM
Joey grounds out. How uncool. ;)

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:18 PM
Shouldn't you be in your mom's basement refining pythag? :cool:




I thought us stat geeks weren't allowed out of the basement?

:cool:

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/7e3f5429d0cfbb6e

nate
04-26-2009, 03:18 PM
Votto finally retired on roller to the right side. 1-3.

2 down.

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:19 PM
No offense to the ladies but Votto looks like he has spray on hair....

The Baumer
04-26-2009, 03:19 PM
Off topic:

I might not be able to watch Braves games on TBS anymore but right now they are showing the Marlins/Phillies game and OF Cody Ross is pitching!

nate
04-26-2009, 03:19 PM
BP grounds out to first.

7 innings done, Reds lead, 8-1.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Off topic:

I might not be able to watch Braves games on TBS anymore but right now they are showing the Marlins/Phillies game and OF Cody Ross is pitching!

What is with position players pitching this year?! That's a riot. :laugh:

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:21 PM
No offense to the ladies but Votto looks like he has spray on hair....

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/50c2f3ff0f819708


http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/232d13cadc793b5c

http://thm-a03.yimg.com/image/42ccdb9ea6443eca

VR
04-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Nice swing there BP. Looks like he's at least trying to take those outside pitches to right with more regularity.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:22 PM
No offense to the ladies but Votto looks like he has spray on hair....

It's still better than that weird mop Jay was sporting during Redsfest this past December. :eek: :eek: :eek:

VR
04-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Burton in. Not sure, but I believe that is called a quality start from our #5 starter. Anyone help me out with that?

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:23 PM
LF defense is worse then when Dunn was here.

There, I said it.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:23 PM
Larry hits one deep to LF, Nix can't get it. Double for Larry.

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:24 PM
I wonder if the Braves would trade Chipper, Escobar and Francoeur for EE, Hairston and Gonzo?

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Chipper has three hits and they only have one run. :eek:

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Larry hits one deep to LF, Nix can't get it. Double for Larry.

Hooter Girls cheer everywhere.

dougdirt
04-26-2009, 03:24 PM
LF defense is worse then when Dunn was here.

There, I said it.

Nix was inches from breaking his neck on that play. He almost had his feet cross up and he would have flopped head first into the base of that wall.....

nate
04-26-2009, 03:25 PM
I wonder if the Braves would trade Chipper, Escobar and Francoeur for EE, Hairston and Gonzo?

I wonder if you might need to get out of the basement!

:cool:

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:25 PM
Burton in. Not sure, but I believe that is called a quality start from our #5 starter. Anyone help me out with that?

That is correct. When was the last time we had one?! :eek:

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:25 PM
Nix was inches from breaking his neck on that play. He almost had his feet cross up and he would have flopped head first into the base of that wall.....

I was surprised he didn't do a summersault.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:26 PM
Fly out to Bruce. Larry stays put, one down.

The Baumer
04-26-2009, 03:26 PM
Because you wanted to know: Marlins OF/RHP Cody Ross just pitched a scoreless 9th, giving up only an infield single to Jayson Werth.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Because you wanted to know: Marlins OF/RHP Cody Ross just pitched a scoreless 9th, giving up only an infield single to Jayson Werth.

The Reds gave up on another pitcher...shocking.

:thumbup:

Tony Cloninger
04-26-2009, 03:27 PM
I remember Sal Butera throwing a good inning in 1987. Struck out someone on a good curveball.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Burton looks very Amish today.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Frenchy flies out to Willy T. Larry tags up and advances to third. 2 down.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Frenchie flies out to CF while Chipper tags up and goes to third.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
crap, looks like a fan is hurt.

BCubb2003
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
Because you wanted to know: Marlins OF/RHP Cody Ross just pitched a scoreless 9th, giving up only an infield single to Jayson Werth.

Yeah, but can he go two days in a row?

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm glad Janish didn't attempt that throw. Yikes! Poor guy. That looked awkward and I'm glad he didn't get hurt. :eek:

nate
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
Bah. Jones has a broken bat hit that Janish fields on the grass but he slips and can't make the throw. Probably wouldn't've gotten Jones anyhow.

Tony Cloninger
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
Is it a Braves fan?

nate
04-26-2009, 03:29 PM
Oh, and Larry scored on the last play.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:30 PM
I hope that fan is all right. :(

nate
04-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Deep flyout ends the inning.

Err, half-inning.

Tony Cloninger
04-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Does Burton look any better?

JaxRed
04-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Reds fan. Saw he has a Reds shirt on and they were holding towel to his head.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Does Burton look any better?

He wasn't overpowering people and gave up a few long outs.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:32 PM
BRUUUUCE

nate
04-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Bruce keeps it going by singling.

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:33 PM
LF defense is worse then when Dunn was here.

There, I said it.

The Reds are having some luck with hitters named Micah, maybe the Reds should hit the Cubs up for Hoffpauir? :cool:

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:33 PM
And again my fantasy team thanks Bruce for his contribution. ;)

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:33 PM
Bruce is 3-for-3 with two homers, a single, a walk, and 4 RBI. He also threw out a runner at second base.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:33 PM
Bruce now hitting .286.

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:34 PM
Bruce is 3-for-3 with two homers, a single, a walk, and 4 RBI. He also threw out a runner at second base.

..and parted the Red Sea.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:34 PM
EE looking a bit like he was on Oceanic 815. K.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:35 PM
Ramon singles through the left side.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:35 PM
EE looking a bit like he was on Oceanic 815. K.

Eh, they're not quite as shocked as they were in season one but EE does look quite lost. ;)

Nice hit for Ramon! :)

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:36 PM
Homer Bailey has 10 K's through 4.1 today.

Highlifeman21
04-26-2009, 03:36 PM
LF defense is worse then when Dunn was here.

There, I said it.

Imagine if Gomes was playing LF...

nate
04-26-2009, 03:36 PM
Homer Bailey has 10 K's through 4.1 today.

Nice to hear!

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:36 PM
..and parted the Red Sea.

Even bigger news....Ramon has two hits....

nate
04-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Janish hits into an FC 6-4. Runners on the corners, 2 down.

BCubb2003
04-26-2009, 03:37 PM
I wonder if a position player has ever been the winning pitcher?

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Make that 11 K's in 4.2 for Homer.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:37 PM
Dickerson pinch hits. Dr. H warming up.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Burton IS looking very "Honest Abe-ish" today.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Homer Bailey has 10 K's through 4.1 today.

Holy crap. He must have heard about Micah's pitching today but the bigger question is does he have any hits?! LOL ;)

Raisor
04-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Braves announcers bringing up that CDickerson is a "distant" cousin of Eric Dickerson.

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:38 PM
Chris Dickkkkkkkkerson.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:39 PM
Dickerson Ks. We go to the 9th.

_Sir_Charles_
04-26-2009, 03:39 PM
Homer Bailey has 10 K's through 4.1 today.

Does some quick math....so he's failed to strike out 3 hitters? Trade 'da bum! Loser!

Nice turnaround for Homer. Nice to see.

BCubb2003
04-26-2009, 03:41 PM
What's Homer's pitch count?

nate
04-26-2009, 03:41 PM
Dr. H in to pitch.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:41 PM
12 K's in 5 IP for Homer. He's at 87 pitches.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:41 PM
Ross flies out to Bruce.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:42 PM
Diaz pinch hitting.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:43 PM
Hmmm, should Edwin have let Janish get that ball?

nate
04-26-2009, 03:43 PM
Diaz gets an infield single. EE catches the ball but pulls Votto of the bag with the throw.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:44 PM
I think Janish had a better chance to get him.

Tony Cloninger
04-26-2009, 03:44 PM
EE looks bored.....CD looks like Rob Deer. If shakeups happen....CD might go.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Dr. H Ks Johnson.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Herrera is bringing some good pitching today! :)

nate
04-26-2009, 03:45 PM
Does anyone in MLB have a flatter billed cap than Danny Ray?

jojo
04-26-2009, 03:45 PM
Hmmm, should Edwin have let Janish get that ball?

Even with his strong arm, I don't think Janish would've had any better luck getting Diaz.

Red in Chicago
04-26-2009, 03:45 PM
Didn't even top 30k today? Pretty sad.

_Sir_Charles_
04-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Herrera taking over as our new closer. :O) I swear he's a blast to watch. *grin*

nate
04-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Seeing eye single for Escobar.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Does anyone in MLB have a flatter billed cap than Danny Ray?

George Sherrill with Baltimore has a pretty flat bill on his hat but I don't know if it's as flat as Danny's. ;)

Big Klu
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Does anyone in MLB have a flatter billed cap than Danny Ray?

Lou Piniella?

nate
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Prado pinch hitting.

nate
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Danny Ray throwing some peas today.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:47 PM
I love DRH's slightly evil mustache! :D

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:48 PM
GAME OVER! :jump:

nate
04-26-2009, 03:48 PM
Prado grounds out 1-3. Reds WIN!

Big Klu
04-26-2009, 03:48 PM
Danny fields his position well.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:48 PM
Reds win 8-2. Big win. Couldn't afford to get swept by the Braves with Oswalt and Wandy Rodriguez pitching the next two games.

_Sir_Charles_
04-26-2009, 03:48 PM
And this one belongs to the Reds.

Nice game all around. Nice O, Nice pitching, nice D. Now let's keep it going and sweep the 'stros!

Big Klu
04-26-2009, 03:50 PM
I love DRH's slightly evil mustache! :D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/56/STMirrorMirror.jpg

_Sir_Charles_
04-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Hmmm...the Astros are still here in Houston playing the Brewers. I wonder if......

*Heads over to Minute Maid park to steal all of Berkman's bats*

Big Klu
04-26-2009, 03:56 PM
I think the Reds now have a 3-1 record in the red jerseys this year. Owings pitches his best game of the year. (Maybe he should wear the red on the road, too! :D )

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 03:57 PM
Interview with Jay and Joey after the game (with a little Ramon teasing both of them) and now Jay just got hit with a shaving cream pie!!! I love these guys! :laugh:

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 03:57 PM
Bruce just got the shaving cream pie to the face.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 04:03 PM
Homer Bailey has 1 BB/14 K in 6 IP today.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 04:03 PM
I love the fact that Jay was cracking up after the pie to the face (and still finished his interview even though he didn't get a towel, LOL :laugh: ) and Joey was still all serious about the game although I think he was laughing when the camera panned out after Jay ran away from the water that got thrown at him, LOL :lol:

remdog
04-26-2009, 04:17 PM
This thread just set a record for the most smilelys ever used by one poster in a single thread.

Rem

RedsManRick
04-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Homer Bailey has 1 BB/14 K in 6 IP today.

The strikeouts are great, but I really love the 1 BB. He's got stuff. If he just stays aggressive in the zone, he's gone be just fine. I'd love to hear the scouting report from this game.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 04:41 PM
The strikeouts are great, but I really love the 1 BB. He's got stuff. If he just stays aggressive in the zone, he's gone be just fine. I'd love to hear the scouting report from this game.

Apparently his fastball was at 95 mph and his curveball was devastating. He finished with 2 BB/15 K in 6.1 innings.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 04:45 PM
The last two games were frustrating and brought out the pessimist in me, but today's game was a joy to watch. The pitching was good, the offense was great, and the defense was solid. Hopefully the Reds can take two of three from the Astros and finish with a .500 homestand.

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 04:48 PM
By the way, I'd like to see Laynce Nix get some more starts vs RHP. He hit the ball hard two or three times today but didn't have anything to show for it.

HeatherC1212
04-26-2009, 04:56 PM
This thread just set a record for the most smilelys ever used by one poster in a single thread.

Rem

It's that whole winning thing. ;)

PuffyPig
04-26-2009, 05:56 PM
The last two games were frustrating and brought out the pessimist in me........

Gee, OBM, it's not like that "pessimism" is buried deep within your body. I think it's generally located on the bridge of your nose.....

;););)

OnBaseMachine
04-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Gee, OBM, it's not like that "pessimism" is buried deep within your body. I think it's generally located on the bridge of your nose.....

;););)

Nah, I was one of the more optimistic people throughout the offseason. But my pessimism does tend to rise during games, especially games like yesterday. :D I just hated to see them have such a great road trip and then come home and lose the first two games in front of big crowds. Hopefully today is the start of a nice finish to the homestand.

Bob Borkowski
04-26-2009, 10:02 PM
Didn't even top 30k today? Pretty sad.

Actually I thought the total for the 3 game series (92,000 and change) was pretty good for the Reds in the month of April.

Typically the months of April and September are slim pickens for Cincy attendance-wise.

Some people are starting to jump on the bandwagon.

Ltlabner
04-27-2009, 08:29 AM
I was on vacation for a couple of weeks starting the day after opening day. Combined with trying to catch up at work I've not been engaged in the season until yesterday. Went to the game.

Some observations:

I'll get it out of the way: Tavaras was exactly what I expected to see. Two ground outs and his only time on base was legging out a hit to deep in the hole at SS. While it did add another run it had zero impact on winning the game and completely fulfills the empty "speed and defense" label with which he as tagged. Had a nice-ish catch in CF. I'm really glad he's been focusing on his OBP and has had a good start. Will he keep it up all year? Doubt it. Hope I'm wrong, but doubt it.

Phillips: This "clean up" farce has to stop. He's a talented hitter but continuing to cast him as a slugger only fosters him swinging for the fences. His first AB he launched a mighty blast that landed about 3' in front of the plate. This guy has to go through some sort of underground "patience at the plate" school where they water-board him into not swinging at everything. Otherwise 3 years from now when our new 2B takes the field we'll all be saying "man, I thought BPhil was really going to be something".

Laynce Nix: He hit some balls very hard but right at people. Also, he spells his name with a Y.

Votto: One intense guy. Does he ever smile? He might just become a baseball star with a brighter future than Bruce. Still waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to early to tell, but that is one talented kid.

Owings: His performance was good and obviously effective. But I was not overly blown away by his stuff. By the 2nd and 3rd trip through the lineup, neither was Atlanta. They started hitting the ball much harder and much further. It didn't translate to runs, but they obviously were getting him figured out.

Janish: Stopgap. Enough said. Please Walt, get us a real shortstop.

It was great to see a win. It was a pretty lifeless game with the exception of the homers/double. But nonetheless it was a win and a good time at the ballpark.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2009, 09:19 AM
What about Janish's .438 OBP and his near-perfect defensive chops has you believing he's a stopgap?

I have my doubts too, but he's hardly been a drag on the team thus far.

Ltlabner
04-27-2009, 09:31 AM
What about Janish's .438 OBP and his near-perfect defensive chops has you believing he's a stopgap?

I have my doubts too, but he's hardly been a drag on the team thus far.

I don't think he's been a drag on the team at all. In fact, he'd probably make a nice platoon given the right combination of players.

Put him out there every day, for 162 games, and he'll have "drag on the team" written all over him. His .428OBP is the result of small sample size and a hit rate he can't sustain. He's had zero walks in 14 AB's. So unless he continues to hit .357 he's going to be yet another dud on a lineup that already struggles. I don't see that happening, do you?

He was, IMO, over matched at the plate yesterday by a less than "powerhouse" pitcher. It's obviously wholly subjective on my part and based on an even smaller sample size, but I saw a guy that would kill you at the plate over the course of an entire season.

He does have a very nice glove, however.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2009, 09:36 AM
My take is that I'm not nearly as bearish on this offense as virtually every other poster on this site.

And having an elite defender at short (over 130 games, maybe he's not an elite defender, but he's looking that way in the early going) is never a drag on a team, even if he OB .300. But I think he can easily sustain a .325 OBP.

In short, there are problems with this team (not as many as most teams this decade, but there are some long-term concerns--mostly with the starting pitching and the inability to throw strikes: surprise!), but Janish doesn't break the top 20.

jojo
04-27-2009, 09:37 AM
Janish isn't a legit major league bat and his defense isn't good enough to carry the wood as a starter.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2009, 09:41 AM
Janish isn't a legit major league bat and his defense isn't good enough to carry the wood as a starter.

You've said that once or a thousand times.

Ltlabner
04-27-2009, 09:51 AM
In short, there are problems with this team (not as many as most teams this decade, but there are some long-term concerns--mostly with the starting pitching and the inability to throw strikes: surprise!), but Janish doesn't break the top 20.

I'd put getting a solid short stop in the important category.

But since there aren't many rock-solid short stops floating around and the prospects cost talent, I think a workable solution could include Mr. Janish. It would be interesting to see if Walt could get creative and find a suitable platoon partner for him and work it that way. Minimize the exposure of both and keep some flexibility on the team.

"Stop gap" has a connotation that sounds like I think he's horrible. I don't think he's horrible (unless he suddenly gets big time playing time). Assuming he's utilized carefully, and thus far he seems to have been, he can be a useful part for a couple of years.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2009, 09:51 AM
Pessimist stat of the day: the Reds have issued 81 BBs on the season; only the Brewers (a dreadful pitching staff) and the Indians (again, dreadful) have issued more (82).

No amount of offense is going to matter unless this pitching staff can figure out a way to throw a leather ball across that chunk of plastic. That BB/9 rate is totally unsustainable. Especially in GABP.

jojo
04-27-2009, 10:05 AM
You've said that once or a thousand times.

I guess because it needs restated every so often?

Here are Janish's minor league numbers: .257/.341/.383, OPS:724;

Here's their translation into major league equivalents: .202/.266/.292, OPS: .558;

Here's what he's projected to do in '09 based upon a survey of 6 projection systems: .245/.314/.362, OPS: .676; wOBA: .302;

Based upon that projection, his glove would have to be worth +17 runs to cancel out his bat over 600 PAs worth of playing time....just to be an average shortstop.

Given that much leather, he would've been the best defensive shortstop in the game last season and a top three defender on any given year. He's not that good defensively.

He's a useful defensive replacement while getting a few starts against lefties. But as a starting shortstop, he'd be a liability.

Falls City Beer
04-27-2009, 10:17 AM
I guess because it needs restated every so often?

Here are Janish's minor league numbers: .257/.341/.383, OPS:724;

Here's their translation into major league equivalents: .202/.266/.292, OPS: .558;

Here's what he's projected to do in '09 based upon a survey of 6 projection systems: .245/.314/.362, OPS: .676; wOBA: .302;

Based upon that projection, his glove would have to be worth +17 runs to cancel out his bat over 600 PAs worth of playing time....just to be an average shortstop.

Given that much leather, he would've been the best defensive shortstop in the game last season and a top three defender on any given year. He's not that good defensively.

He's a useful defensive replacement while getting a few starts against lefties. But as a starting shortstop, he'd be a liability.

I think we all know that he's not a starting shortstop. Does everyone on a roster have to be a starter, and an average or above starter, to help a franchise? He's not hurting the team in his current role.

jojo
04-27-2009, 10:36 AM
I think we all know that he's not a starting shortstop. Does everyone on a roster have to be a starter, and an average or above starter, to help a franchise? He's not hurting the team in his current role.

I was responding to this:


And having an elite defender at short (over 130 games, maybe he's not an elite defender, but he's looking that way in the early going) is never a drag on a team, even if he OB .300. But I think he can easily sustain a .325 OBP.

In short, there are problems with this team (not as many as most teams this decade, but there are some long-term concerns--mostly with the starting pitching and the inability to throw strikes: surprise!), but Janish doesn't break the top 20.

Sorry if I misunderstood your point.

lollipopcurve
04-27-2009, 11:11 AM
Based upon that projection

Players improve, players get worse, players get hurt, talent pools deepen or thin. Some players offer positive intangibles, some negative.

We already know there's some softness in minor league projections and in defensive ratings.

You act as if these projections are reckoned on stone tablets. They're not.


You've said that once or a thousand times.

I know. Projection systems indicate you can expect at least one "let me tell you how inadequate this player is" post from this poster for every optimistic thread about a borderline Reds player.

jojo
04-27-2009, 11:23 AM
Players improve, players get worse, players get hurt, talent pools deepen or thin. Some players offer positive intangibles, some negative.

We already know there's some softness in minor league projections and in defensive ratings.

You act as if these projections are reckoned on stone tablets. They're not.



I know. Projection systems indicate you can expect at least one "let me tell you how inadequate this player is" post from this poster for every optimistic thread about a borderline Reds player.

Janish will be 27 this year. There is no hidden agenda and there is nothing dogmatic, hateful or "a priori" about the conclusion that:


He's a useful defensive replacement while getting a few starts against lefties. But as a starting shortstop, he'd be a liability.