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ChatterRed
05-04-2009, 12:59 AM
So were his numbers jacked playing in Colorado, or is it just a slow start? He went 0-7 today and is batting .233.

Beane is thinking he has a kings ransom waiting in trade later this season for this guy. It will be funny if Holliday doesn't do well, and then they get very little for him.

TStuck
05-04-2009, 01:09 AM
Still fairly early and could be a slow start, but there were plenty of predictors that Holliday's numbers would drop once he was playing his home games somewhere other than Coors Field. His home/away splits showed a real dropoff in his numbers on the road.

RedLakerFan24
05-04-2009, 02:47 AM
Its too early to tell, i would still love to aquire him for Bailey

CRedsLarkin11
05-04-2009, 01:01 PM
I just think it's a slow start, he's hit at least .320 in each of the last three seasons including a .340 season in there and there are two seasons of over .400 OBP... he is still an elite player and the Reds would not be able to get him cheap, he will probably not hit 30 homers this season because of his exit from Coors(though I believe he would put up excellent numbers in GAB) No way Homer alone would get it done, I'd love to have him though but not for a rental

TheBigLebowski
05-04-2009, 01:16 PM
Lot of guys off to relatively slow starts this year....Holliday, Wright, Braun, Hamilton, etc.

Too early to declare him a product of Coors Field. He'll get it together.

SoTxRedsFan
05-04-2009, 01:27 PM
If we could find a way to sign him to a LTC before pulling the trigger I'd send Homer + over in a heartbeat.

Not going to happen, but man it's fun to dream.

big boy
05-04-2009, 01:30 PM
Switching leagues could be a factor with his slow start.

WildcatFan
05-04-2009, 01:31 PM
I wonder too what it would take to get Holliday. I'm getting a little nervous about what the Reds are planning to do with Alonso, seeing as how Votto has turned into a stud both offensively and defensively at first base, and it seems more and more like Yonder won't be playing in the outfield. Would you pull a Homer + Alonso trade for Holliday, or is that too much? I think I would do it.

SoTxRedsFan
05-04-2009, 01:31 PM
Switching leagues could be a factor with his slow start.

Tons of factors, but at the end of the day he'd be a .310, 30, 120 guy in our lineup in our park. I'd overpay to get the guy. Homer, Alonso (when he's eligible to be traded), and Frazier.

RedLakerFan24
05-04-2009, 01:49 PM
I wonder too what it would take to get Holliday. I'm getting a little nervous about what the Reds are planning to do with Alonso, seeing as how Votto has turned into a stud both offensively and defensively at first base, and it seems more and more like Yonder won't be playing in the outfield. Would you pull a Homer + Alonso trade for Holliday, or is that too much? I think I would do it.

if we are able to sign him before the trade is made then yes, but if we give those two guys up and he ends up being a FA and walks away it would be a bad trade for the Reds, plus he is a Boras client so he is going to want to test the FA Market

WildcatFan
05-04-2009, 02:00 PM
I agree about the sign him first thing, but I have a feeling that Boras will want to get him to sign a LTC via a trade rather than test the free agent market next year which is stacked with big-name outfielders — Guerrero, Bay, Crawford, Ramirez, Ordonez, Dye, Abreu, Matsui to name a few.

Now granted, that LTC may need to be 6 years or so, but for a 30-year-old outfielder with power to stick between Bruce and Votto for the next five years, I don't think that's out of the question.

Brutus
05-04-2009, 02:05 PM
If we could find a way to sign him to a LTC before pulling the trigger I'd send Homer + over in a heartbeat.

Not going to happen, but man it's fun to dream.

I could see the A's wanting a package of Homer Bailey, Adam Rosales, Drew Stubbs and Matt Maloney. Something along those lines. It will probably take 3-4 players and include Bailey and even Rosales (as he is a guy I think the A's would like). But I think the Reds could get it done if they really wanted to.

- This all of course assuming the A's fall out of the race.

Handofdeath
05-04-2009, 02:31 PM
Holliday certainly has different numbers away from Coors but he has steadily improved through the years and his recent numbers are not bad. Here are his away OPS numbers for his career.

2004 .654
2005 .729
2006 .819
2007 .860
2008 .892

That .892 in 2008 carried over a full season would have ranked him 12th in the NL in OPS. He now can hit just fine away from Coors Field. He'll pull out of this slump.

Ghosts of 1990
05-04-2009, 02:47 PM
I'd like to acquire him if we can stay close. He is exactly what we need, and even with his struggles he takes us from a subpar lineup to possibly one of the elite. He'd fit perfectly in our ballpark and playing with Bruce and Votto.

ChatterRed
05-04-2009, 03:31 PM
I could see the A's wanting a package of Homer Bailey, Adam Rosales, Drew Stubbs and Matt Maloney. Something along those lines. It will probably take 3-4 players and include Bailey and even Rosales (as he is a guy I think the A's would like). But I think the Reds could get it done if they really wanted to.

- This all of course assuming the A's fall out of the race.

Those aren't names that jump out at you immediately, until you really analyze them:

Homer Bailey - former 1st round draft pick and highly rated prospect who is lately showing flashes of why.
Rosales - risen from nowhere and shown he has nothing left to prove in the minors as he was leading about every category before he came up to the bigs. (wish the A's would take EE instead)
Stubbs - former 1st round draft pick, solid defensively but still hasn't put it together offensively.
Maloney - a triple e.r.a. below 3.00, and he's a lefty.

That's our two best pitching prospects right now, 2 former #1 picks, a league leading triple AAA player now with the Reds (Rosales), and a triple A lefty doing very well this year. Actually, not a bad haul for the A's. Probably atleast 3 major leaguers in there.

WildcatFan
05-04-2009, 03:48 PM
Yeah, that package is too large, IMO. The A's have to remember that a lot of teams will be content with waiting for free agency instead of dealing the farm. I don't think Walt would make that swap, anyway.

schmidty622
05-04-2009, 03:54 PM
Those aren't names that jump out at you immediately, until you really analyze them:

Homer Bailey - former 1st round draft pick and highly rated prospect who is lately showing flashes of why.
Rosales - risen from nowhere and shown he has nothing left to prove in the minors as he was leading about every category before he came up to the bigs. (wish the A's would take EE instead)
Stubbs - former 1st round draft pick, solid defensively but still hasn't put it together offensively.
Maloney - a triple e.r.a. below 3.00, and he's a lefty.

That's our two best pitching prospects right now, 2 former #1 picks, a league leading triple AAA player now with the Reds (Rosales), and a triple A lefty doing very well this year. Actually, not a bad haul for the A's. Probably atleast 3 major leaguers in there.

Yeah. There's no chance I do that deal for a rent-a-player. I would rather trade with Colorado for Brad Hawpe if he becomes available.

RedLakerFan24
05-05-2009, 02:45 AM
Bailey + Stubbs should be enough to get him

Ghosts of 1990
05-05-2009, 03:00 AM
If we could find a way to sign him to a LTC before pulling the trigger I'd send Homer + over in a heartbeat.

Not going to happen, but man it's fun to dream.

Need to sign Bruce and Votto to a LTC first though.

Brutus
05-05-2009, 04:22 PM
Need to sign Bruce and Votto to a LTC first though.

Though that's high on my list of priorities for the organization, I think a solidified bat that could immediately put the team in the postseason is the more pressing issue. Bruce and Votto still have a few years before a LTC is necessary (though Votto is coming up soon on arbitration eligible). I would definitely address that next offseason, but an opportunity to get Holliday might be one worth jumping on.

Fon Duc Tow
05-05-2009, 06:41 PM
Need to sign Bruce and Votto to a LTC first though.

Thats not how small market smallball works.

Once Votto and Bruce's contract is up, you let them both walk and hope that the proverbial Votto Jr. and Bruce Jr. are ready to take their places at the same reduced rate of pay.

schmidty622
05-05-2009, 09:14 PM
Thats not how small market smallball works.

Once Votto and Bruce's contract is up, you let them both walk and hope that the proverbial Votto Jr. and Bruce Jr. are ready to take their places at the same reduced rate of pay.

No, you trade them with a year or two left on their contracts, and add to your outstanding farm system.

Brutus
05-06-2009, 02:30 AM
I had been led to believe that Matt Holliday's home/away splits as a member of the Colorado Rockies were drastic- insinuating in part that he was a product of Coors Field.

Even if Matt Holliday was partially a product of Coors Field, does anyone mind having this production on the Reds' team?

(Road OPS for Holliday)

2008: .892
2007: .860
2006: .819
2005: .729
2004: .654

Clearly, the perception that he was purely a Coors Field sideshow is incorrect. His first two seasons were mediocre, but the last three years he was both constantly improving and productive. So in other words... you get an .850 to .900 OPS guy on the road and, last time I checked, GABP is not exactly a pitcher's park either - thereby diminishing the Coors Field stats.

Certainly, money and prospects necessary to get a deal done makes that portion of the issue debatable. However, I'm now perplexed where folks got the crazy idea that Holliday did not hit away from Coors.

CincyRed44
05-07-2009, 10:50 AM
Wouldn't mind getting Holliday but the asking price will probably blow our minds for this hired gun. He will not re-sign nor will an extension be accepted by his agent Scott Boras. Free-agency will beckon him toward a metropolis yet to be determined for boat loads of cash in 2010. Losing lots of great prospects plus the person you acquired will set the Reds back many years in player development. So to make a long post short, NO to getting Holliday.