2009 International signing period

[OnBaseMachine]

The 2009 International signing period is now roughly two months away (July 2nd) so we should start to see some info on the top prospects available. Shortstop Miguel Angel Sano is thought to be the best prospect available. Here's a little piece on Sano from a Pittsburgh newspaper:


Another long-shot gem
Much younger than Strasburg, but no less pursued, is a terrific 15-year-old shortstop in the Dominican Republic named Miguel Angel Sano who is seen as one of the best prospects available in the upcoming July 2 international free-agent class for 16-year-olds.

And the Pirates are one of ... well, 30 teams interested in him, with word that the young man's bonus could reach $3 million, miles above the Dominican average bonus of $108,000. And the Pirates' entire budget for international players last year was $2 million, so this venture would require quite the extra expenditure on the part of ownership.

Still, the Pirates, known to have been on Sano's trail for an extended period, are seen as one of the favorites.


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09123/967312-63.stm

Here's a video on Sano:

http://www.globalpost.com/video/sports/090420/dominican-dreams-part-2-miguel-angel-sano

[medford]

3 million? That seems a little low for the top IFA, or is that just me? Didn't Duran get like 2 million, and that was considerred cheap b/c they signed him w/ the loop hole no one else realized? didn't the other kid get 4 mil? And the Pitcher that signed w/ Oakland get like a 6-7 mil offer from the Reds?

Is the economy driving down the offerring price for IFAs? Hopefully the Reds will be a strong in the IFA market this year as they were last year. A solid infielder or 2 plus a prized pitching prospect or 2 would be nice

[camisadelgolf]

Wow, what a great piece. Thanks, OBM. By the way, all of you should check out the movie Sugar. The movie isn't 100% a 'baseball' movie, but it's a great movie and gives you an idea of what a lot of these international prospects have to go through to play baseball in the States. Keep the movie away from your kids, though. ;)

[corkedbat]

I'd love to alnd this kid and also take another SS in the first round (if there is a worthy candidate there when we pick). Take two and you've got twice the chance of one making it. I haven't overlooked Cozart at all, but you can never have too many talented SSs - at the very least, you can alwasy flip any extras for another need.

I guess I was spoiled by being fortunate enough to be a Reds fan for the entire careers of Davey & Barry -I want that kind of security back. :)

[dougdirt]

3 million? That seems a little low for the top IFA, or is that just me? Didn't Duran get like 2 million, and that was considerred cheap b/c they signed him w/ the loop hole no one else realized? didn't the other kid get 4 mil? And the Pitcher that signed w/ Oakland get like a 6-7 mil offer from the Reds?

Is the economy driving down the offerring price for IFAs? Hopefully the Reds will be a strong in the IFA market this year as they were last year. A solid infielder or 2 plus a prized pitching prospect or 2 would be nice

3 Million is a lot of money. Only one player got that last year and he was considered a once in a generation talent. There usually aren't even 15 players who will get $1,000,000 in a signing period.

[TOBTTReds]

With the Pirates new facility in the DR, they will be in the running for a few top guys.

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090430&content_id=4497872&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp&c_id=pit

[Bumstead]

Are there any rumors out there about the Reds being in the running for any of the top available players?

Bums

[lollipopcurve]

Reds made a huge splash last year. My guess is they dial it back this year.

[medford]

3 Million is a lot of money. Only one player got that last year and he was considered a once in a generation talent. There usually aren't even 15 players who will get $1,000,000 in a signing period.

Duran got 2 million, Yorman got 2.5 Mil, I guess I remember him making more.

Didn't the pitcher the A's sign get like 6 mil last year, or am I remembering that wrong?

anyhoo, I would have thought the true top IFA would pick up more than 3 millon, present economy aside.

Any word on the progress of Yorman & Duran down in Sarasota Doug? Has Juan fully healthy? I'm looking forward to the start of GCL play.

[Bumstead]

I believe that Michael Inoa got $4.5M from the A's; also, if I remember correctly, the Reds offered him more than the A's did.

Bum

[dougdirt]

I believe that Michael Inoa got $4.5M from the A's; also, if I remember correctly, the Reds offered him more than the A's did.

Bum

The Reds and Rangers both offered him more money and he went with the A's anyways. I think the Rangers offered him a Major League Deal too.

[Mario-Rijo]

The Reds and Rangers both offered him more money and he went with the A's anyways. I think the Rangers offered him a Major League Deal too.

So it would seem that based on that 3 million wouldn't seem to be "as special". I think that's what people are getting at, including myself.

[OnBaseMachine]

I wish the Reds would get in on this kid...

Pirates have shot at elite Dominican prospect
Power-hitting shortstop's signing bonus could top $4 million
Friday, May 15, 2009
By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Pirates have an inside track on signing one of Latin America's top amateur prospects, Dominican shortstop Miguel Angel Sano, but the cost of the signing bonus could top $4 million and become the highest in Major League Baseball history for that region.

"The Pirates are one of many teams interested, and they've got as good a shot as any team as long as the money is there," Sano's agent, Rob Plummer, said yesterday. "There's no question they're interested, just as there's no question this is a special talent."

The Pirates assess Sano the same way, privately raving about Sano's body -- already 6 feet 3, 189 pounds -- and remarkable right-handed power to go with an arm rated as superb.

They have had significant concerns about his age, though those might have been placated in the past week: Sano, whose 16th birthday was Monday according to Plummer, has maintained that, despite his mature physical stature, he is being truthful about his age. The Pirates, highly skeptical, conducted an investigation, one that included a bone-graft test Wednesday that assigns an age range based on DNA, and Sano's range was between 16 and 17. An investigation of birth documents is ongoing.

One American League team conducted an investigation earlier this month and confirmed Sano as being of age, according to Plummer. Two other teams, also in that league, are conducting their own.

But it is the Pirates who have been most aggressive, including arranging a private workout three weeks ago in the Dominican, one attended by most of the team's upper brass. The Pirates also have the most inside connections, having courted Sano and his family extensively. To boot, Sano, Plummer and Rene Gayo, the Pirates' Latin American scouting director, have a long-standing relationship, and Plummer goes back years with general manager Neal Huntington.

The Pirates do not comment on potential personnel moves.

The investment, if it were to occur, would be extraordinary for the Pirates, whose record bonus in the region was $400,000 for Venezuelan center fielder Exicardo Cayones last year. But the team has vowed a greater commitment to finding talent in the region, most visibly through the $5 million academy it opened last month in Guerra, Dominican Republic. That idea was formed and implemented by owner Bob Nutting.

The Pirates spent $9.8 million on the amateur draft last year, plus $2 million in Latin America, each a franchise record. Most of that draft money went to first-round pick Pedro Alvarez -- a $6 million bonus, plus $355,000 more guaranteed -- but there will be no Alvarez type available at No. 4 overall in the next draft June 9. Thus, the team has flexibility to move from one pool to the other if needed. Or it could simply add to the pool, with ownership's authorization.

Players outside the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico are not subject to the draft. Rather, they can be signed as free agents as young as age 16. The international signing period begins July 2, but teams are free to reach verbal agreements with players before that date.

Baseball's record Latin American bonus of $4.25 million was set last year by the Oakland Athletics, for 16-year-old Dominican pitcher Michael Inoa. The average bonus in the Dominican last year was $108,000.

Plummer, who has signed players to seven of the top 13 bonuses in Dominican history, declined to discuss numbers. But offers already are believed to have topped $3 million.

"Sano is the best player I've ever had, and other people feel that way, too," Plummer said. "I think sky's the limit for him as player, so I would hope the bonus would reflect that."

Statistics are scarce in the Dominican amateur ranks, so Sano's prowess is evaluated almost entirely by scouting on sandlots. The consensus is that Sano will move to a corner outfield spot once he turns professional, probably right field to take advantage of the arm. The consensus of his offensive potential ranges from excellent to extraordinary.

"Based on what I've seen and heard from talent evaluators, his upside is that he's Albert Pujols in Hanley Ramirez's body," Plummer said of the stars of the St. Louis Cardinals and Florida Marlins, respectively. "He might not stay at short the way Ramirez has, but he's been compared to Pujols' bat because of a short, compact swing with lots of power."

That might sound like agent-speak, but the praise for Sano was equally effusive from others in the industry interviewed for this story, none of whom wished to go on the record in advance of the July 2 signing period.

A player's age -- often hard to determine in the Dominican, where paperwork can be scattershot and bribery or forgery routine -- is essential in a team's decision to offer a bonus. Even a year or two can make a large difference in assessing potential.

Sano told the Global Post, an international news agency, in an April 29 online video that he was 15 at the time.

"Let them investigate me," Sano said in the video. "There is just a doubt in their heads, and investigating me can get this doubt out of their heads."

Plummer, who declined the Post-Gazette's request to interview Sano, described him as a modest person with a humble background.

"He's outgoing, but not in a cocky way," Plummer said. "He acts just like a kid who happens to be good at baseball. And he loves the game. He'll run in the morning, practice in the afternoon and go running against at night. He's all about being best player he possibly can be."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09135/970290-63.stm

[OnBaseMachine]

Fred (Ohio): At this moment, who would you say are the top 5 prospects for the July Second international signing period?

Ben Badler: I'll get this one out of the way because there are about 20 July 2 questions in here and probably double that amount in the last few ESPN chats I've done, which I think is great. I've been talking to scouts about this year's July 2 crop for the last three-plus months�well, technically I've known about some of the players since last year, I guess�but I'm not going to comment on any specific prospects here in a chat, on Twitter (@BenBadler) or anywhere else until I write a story about him, for a variety of reasons, which I hop you can understand. I'm happy with but still aiming to improve upon the expanded July 2 coverage we were able to provide BA readers with last year. I've put systems in place to separate signal from all of the noise, hype and spin that goes on with these players, some of which I've already read. I don't care one bit about being first with the latest July 2 rumors. My aim is for you guys to see BA as a trusted source of high-quality information about Latin American prospects, and know that you'll get a high signal-to-noise ratio with information directly from scouts when you read something about a player in BA, just like our draft coverage, which is by far the best in the business. But trust me, we will have plenty of stuff on July 2 soon.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/?1242405074

[OnBaseMachine]

Kiley McDaniel of Baseball Prospectus wrote an article today on the upcoming July 2nd deadline for International signings. I sent in a question asking him if he expected the Reds to be busy again this year. His response:


With OF Juan Duran and OF Yorman Rodriguez, they've set a pace of one super premium guy per year, with an expanded budget. They've been tied loosely to two of the top hitters, 3B Miguel Sano and OF Jose Pena, but there's nothing too concrete yet. Typically top players get tied strongly to teams in the last month. Whether Cincy gets a seven-figure guy this year or not, their financial commitment to Latin America looks to be for real.

Man, I would love to see the Reds get Sano. The scouting reports on his bat sounds amazing.

[Homer Bailey]

What do we know about Pena? When do Duran and Y-Rod start up this season?

[dougdirt]

What do we know about Pena? When do Duran and Y-Rod start up this season?

Not much about Pena and in about a month when the GCL starts for Duran and Rodriguez.

[Scrap Irony]

If Sano signs in Cincinnati, all signs of surprise shall be surfeited simply because Sano is a super prospect. Seriously, Sano is almost sure-fire.

All kidding aside, I love that the Reds are working on finding great players in Latin America and that kids from that area of the world are willing and wanting to go to Ohio. If Sano signs, that gives the Reds some serious street cred. And a great player, hopefully, to pair with Duran and Rodriguez.

Add in Sulburan, Lotzkar, Hillenbrandt, Wideman, and Soto and the Reds should have a distinct worldy flavor in the next 5-10 years.

[Hondo]

The Reds might as well sign him... IF they offered Inoa more money than anyone... They will probably do the same with Sano... I hope they do... This team needs deals like this!

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Reds made a huge splash last year. My guess is they dial it back this year.

I agree. I expect very little this year.

[OnBaseMachine]

I agree. I expect very little this year.

Baseball America and BP both disagree. They think the Reds are in it for the long haul. Kiley McDaniel says the Reds are currently pursuing two of the best bats available.

[lollipopcurve]

Kiley McDaniel says the Reds are currently after two of the best bats available.

Nice to hear. Names?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Great. Hopefully they at least drive up the price and hurt the competition in the pocketbook, at the very least.

Still, I don't expect they make a big splash. I hope I'm wrong.

With that said, I'm very content with what they did in 2008.

[OnBaseMachine]

Nice to hear. Names?

Miguel Angel Sano and Jose Pena.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1871210&postcount=15

[Mario-Rijo]

Great. Hopefully they at least drive up the price and hurt the competition in the pocketbook, at the very least.

Still, I don't expect they make a big splash. I hope I'm wrong.

With that said, I'm very content with what they did in 2008.

I agree they seem to be awfully cost conscious all of a sudden since the economy took a nosedive.

[dougdirt]

I agree they seem to be awfully cost conscious all of a sudden since the economy took a nosedive.

And as they have said this year... they made their cuts on the non baseball side of things, not on the baseball side of things. I imagine they have X amount of dollars for signing players this year between the draft and international market and I doubt the economy had much to do with that budget.

[Mario-Rijo]

And as they have said this year... they made their cuts on the non baseball side of things, not on the baseball side of things. I imagine they have X amount of dollars for signing players this year between the draft and international market and I doubt the economy had much to do with that budget.

I am seeing several things that could be construed as saving $$$'s on the baseball side of things. Maybe they are assumptions on my part but I feel they are pretty strong ones.

[dougdirt]

I am seeing several things that could be construed as saving $$$'s on the baseball side of things. Maybe they are assumptions on my part but I feel they are pretty strong ones.

Such as?

[Mario-Rijo]

Such as?

Such as the big RH bat they were after until the economy took a nosedive. Yeah they said they had interest in getting that bat it wasn't just speculation, but then all of a sudden after the downturn they got frugal in a hurry. I believe they even intimated as much. The payroll being less than last years was an example of that. This ultra conservative approach to roster moves, I am assuming having to bump a guys salary up from AAA dollars to major league ones have something to do with running so short the past few weeks. I'm sure I am missing something else but can't remember what exactly. All I know is it's not hard to read between the lines, and I am done with allowing them to play Spin Dr. with me.

[tripleaaaron]

Such as the big RH bat they were after until the economy took a nosedive. Yeah they said they had interest in getting that bat it wasn't just speculation, but then all of a sudden after the downturn they got frugal in a hurry. I believe they even intimated as much. The payroll being less than last years was an example of that. This ultra conservative approach to roster moves, I am assuming having to bump a guys salary up from AAA dollars to major league ones have something to do with running so short the past few weeks. I'm sure I am missing something else but can't remember what exactly. All I know is it's not hard to read between the lines, and I am done with allowing them to play Spin Dr. with me.

You're right, it is not too difficult to read into the direction we are headed and where certain funds are going to be allocated. With us hanging right into the thick of the race it may come down to adding a major league contributor or being a player in the international market. I am certain that Bob has money to spend in one regard or the other as we all know that he is not a complacent man. I just hope Walt has a plan in place to continue to build the farm through international signings and drafting regardless of the state of the big league team, and Bob feels the same way as that is the only way we will stay competitive for a long period of time.
Now is the time to buy, the market is low and we are in the thick of the race. If Bob were to open his wallet in both the international signings and with the acquisition of a big bat this franchise would take a big step forward once again. We need to further extend our window of talent and the only way to step forward from other franchises is by making a big splash in the international market.

[RED VAN HOT]

The hardest position to fill is also the Reds' greatest organizational need, SS. By hard to fill I mean a player who is both a plus defender and hitter. If the Reds are not lucky enough to have Green fall to them in the draft, I would expect them to go after Sano aggressively.

[OnBaseMachine]

Update from Kiley McDaniel on OF Jose Pena:


The Jose Pena writeup is coming in the next article. The Reds are in play, but Pena was outstanding in the showcase I attended, outplaying Mateo. His price and number of suitors just blew up.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8950

Wagner Mateo is arguably the second or third best player available, so if Pena outplayed him then tells you how talented Pena is.

[aubashbrother]

how awesome would it be to snag Pena and Sano

[dougdirt]

how awesome would it be to snag Pena and Sano

Very. The correct answer is Very.

[OnBaseMachine]

how awesome would it be to snag Pena and Sano

The Pirates are the favorites to land Sano at this point.

[GIDP]

I still cant get over the fact that we are watching the Reds be a franchise for the 1st time in a long time.

[Superdude]

The Pirates are the favorites to land Sano at this point.

Pittsburgh?... really? Surely we can pry him away from Pittsburgh.

[New Fever]

Another Reds update from Kiley McDaniel:


"Also, the Reds are even more on RHP Christopher Cabrera, who they seem to like quite a bit." "He'll be covered in the next article as well."

[OnBaseMachine]

Another Reds update from Kiley McDaniel:


"Also, the Reds are even more on RHP Christopher Cabrera, who they seem to like quite a bit." "He'll be covered in the next article as well."

Interesting. I was hoping the Reds would sign a big time pitcher this year. Hopefully they can work out a deal with Cabrera.

[OnBaseMachine]

Here's some video of Jose Pena taking batting practice. Impressive.

http://vimeo.com/channels/july2nd

[lollipopcurve]

Thanks for that video, OBM. Really like the look of Pena's swing -- better than Mateo's.

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm looking forward to reading the scouting report and watching video of Christopher Cabrera. It sounds like the Reds are in pretty heavy on him.

[aubashbrother]

had to turn the volume down on the computer watching pena swinging

[OnBaseMachine]

I found this on a Mets website:

Top July 2 Prospects:

C Jacob Beltre, Dominican Republic
RHP Cristopher Cabrera, Dominican Republic
LHP Mariosal Cairo, Dominican Republic
OF Amable Capellan, Dominican Republic
LHP Leo Cardoso, Cuba
SS Paul Carlixte, Dominican Republic - IRREGULAR INVESTIGATION, POSSIBLE SUSPENSION
RHP Rafael DePaula, Dominican Republic - www.diariolibre.com/noticias_det ... 186424&l=1 - SUSPENDED
RHP Anderson Encarnacion
OF Leonardo Fuentes, Colombia
SS Russell Herrera, Dominican Republic
OF Luis Jolly, Dominican Republic
OF Wagner Mateo, Dominican Republic - hitting video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdBIFERcKtk
OF Eladio Moronta, Dominican Republic - SUSPENDED
LHP Sung-Bum Na, South Korea - sophomore in college in Korea
LHP Victor Payano, Dominican Republic
OF Eric Peguero (a.k.a. Junior Monteliz), Dominican Republic - IRREGULAR INVESTIGATION, POSSIBLE SUSPENSION
OF Jose Alberto Peña, Dominican Republic
RHP Leonardo Perdomo, Dominican Republic
OF Guillermo Pimental, Dominican Republic
RHP Jurickson Profar, Curacao - former LLWS star
OF Alfredo Ramos, Dominican Republic - IRREGULAR INVESTIGATION, POSSIBLE SUSPENSION
LHP Daniel Sanchez, Venezuela
C Gary Sanchez, Dominican Republic
SS Miguel Angel Sano, Dominican Republic - sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3974952
RHP Amiro Santana, Dominican Republic
LHP Juan Urbina, Venezuela - Ugueth Urbina's son

2010: SS Ramel Flores-García

http://www.nyfuturestars.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=25180&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=70&sid=ce24c32dcd2b5f1fedcb90c8e192c2bf

[OnBaseMachine]

The most promising player in the BPBA is 16-year-old, 6’2”, Wagner Mateo OF who leads the four players with strong hitting, power, speed, and defensive tools. The others are shortstop Rosel Herrera and pitchers Victor Payano and Mario Sel Cairo. All four players attended spring training in Florida by invitation this year as a way to evaluate them in the United States.

The director of BPBA shared that the Yankees, Redsox, Giants, Cardinals, Braves, Reds, Indians, Padres, and Cubs have all taken a serious look at Mateo in anticipation of his July 2nd eligibility. Herrera is being considered by the Rockies, Dodgers, Giants, and Redsox.

Another baseball program, Taveras Baseball Academy which was responsible for developing New York Mets Class A second baseman Gregory Veloz, is betting on shortstop Roberto Garcias to get picked up this year.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/156718-international-signing-day-an-early-look-at-some-dominican-prospects

[Mario-Rijo]

Cards to offer $4 mil. to D.R. 16-year-old?

Wagner Mateo just turned 16, and the Cardinals are set to offer the center fielder a $4 million bonus to sign from the Dominican Republic, the Post-Gazette reports.

Well done, kid.

Cards' farm director Jeff Luhnow told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, "We have a way to evaluate the player, determine his potential and then also decide what he is worth to us. We're comfortable with how we're able to do that."

Turns out he was worth $4 million, just $250,000 shy of the record bonus given to a Dominican player.

Baseball America's Ben Badler wrote of Luhnow, "His body is already relatively mature so he might move to a corner outfield position, but scouts I've spoken with say his bat is advanced. He has a good feel for hitting and has shown the ability to hit balls out of the park to all fields."

Badler added that, although outfield prospect Miguel Angel Sano is considered the top Dominican prospect, there really isn't a difference between Sano, Mateo and catcher Gary Sanchez.

However, that doesn't mean Sano -- whom the Pirates are looking to sign -- won't use the Mateo deal as leverage, since he is widely considered the top Dominican prospect.

[OnBaseMachine]

Here's a small scouting report on Christopher Cabrera:


Good body, no effort mechanics, if his age (he was 15 when I saw him) is right then he has an incredible arm, I have seen him hit 93.

Clean arm action a bit long in the back, his breaking pitches need more work, he is still raw. His trainer is Mon from Bani.

http://dominicanbaseballuniverse.blogspot.com/2009/05/no-title.html#comments

Baseball Prospectus should have some info up on Christopher Cabrera and Jose Pena tomorrow.

[aubashbrother]

how does a 15 year old hit 93 good lord .

[11larkin11]

I haven't heard anything on Gary Sanchez yet. You got anything on him OBM?

[OnBaseMachine]

I haven't heard anything on Gary Sanchez yet. You got anything on him OBM?

He's a lock to be a Yankee.

[travisgrimes]

hearing Cabrera and Pena are Reds locks at this point... Mateo will accept Cards offer if no one outbids which I highly doubt they do..... now the Sano situation could go anywhere because there are two different stories out there... one states that the Pirates are seeing who they take in the draft 1st and how much they will have to pay before anything happens with Sano... IF the Pirates have to pay more than expected to sign their draft pick they will do so and discontinue their pursuit of Sano.... HOWEVER another source which is mlbtraderumors.com says the Pirates plan on signing Sano and their 1st round pick no matter what.... I think best case scenario is obviously Sano, Cabrera and Pena which would match last year signings with Duran, Rodriguez and Guillon.... two big time hitters and a pitcher but dont be surprised if Sano ends up with Pirates and Reds stick to Cabrera and Pena.

[fearofpopvol1]

hearing Cabrera and Pena are Reds locks at this point... Mateo will accept Cards offer if no one outbids which I highly doubt they do..... now the Sano situation could go anywhere because there are two different stories out there... one states that the Pirates are seeing who they take in the draft 1st and how much they will have to pay before anything happens with Sano... IF the Pirates have to pay more than expected to sign their draft pick they will do so and discontinue their pursuit of Sano.... HOWEVER another source which is mlbtraderumors.com says the Pirates plan on signing Sano and their 1st round pick no matter what.... I think best case scenario is obviously Sano, Cabrera and Pena which would match last year signings with Duran, Rodriguez and Guillon.... two big time hitters and a pitcher but dont be surprised if Sano ends up with Pirates and Reds stick to Cabrera and Pena.

where are you getting your information from?

[travisgrimes]

my uncle was one of Jose Rijo's advisers when he 1st came into the league with the Yankees... he has always kept in touch through the years with friends down in the DR like instructors and scouts... he tells me everything he hears including Sano isnt humble but rather arrogant and has Wily Mo Pena disease which is great power but cant hit a breaking ball which is something Jose Pena can do...

[Mario-Rijo]

hearing Cabrera and Pena are Reds locks at this point... Mateo will accept Cards offer if no one outbids which I highly doubt they do..... now the Sano situation could go anywhere because there are two different stories out there... one states that the Pirates are seeing who they take in the draft 1st and how much they will have to pay before anything happens with Sano... IF the Pirates have to pay more than expected to sign their draft pick they will do so and discontinue their pursuit of Sano.... HOWEVER another source which is mlbtraderumors.com says the Pirates plan on signing Sano and their 1st round pick no matter what.... I think best case scenario is obviously Sano, Cabrera and Pena which would match last year signings with Duran, Rodriguez and Guillon.... two big time hitters and a pitcher but dont be surprised if Sano ends up with Pirates and Reds stick to Cabrera and Pena.

So Pittsburgh is the wildcard as we have expected. I found this on a Pirates Blog, just speculation by the blogger mostly but some GM quotes worthy of note and a thought or 2 by the blogger.


For the second time this week at BP, it's suggested that the Pirates might go a little cheap with their first round pick in order to have enough money to sign Miguel Sano (this time Kevin Goldstein suggests as much in a chat, if you're not a BP subscriber and can't see the link). I'm pretty sure the Pirates are suggesting the same thing here, but I really can't wade through the Littlefield-esque language to figure out what Huntington means.

"We're not going to walk away from a guy because of his agent or financial demands only, and it's going to be a long summer," Pirates general manager Neal Huntington said this week, amid preparations for the draft. "Some guys you evaluate at X, and they want X times 7, and other guys you evaluate at X, and they want X times 2. All else being equal, you go with X times 2."

It seems to me that that's what you say when you're planning on drafting a guy at least partially based on the ability to sign him.

So what does this mean, exactly? Some quick back of the envelope math says the Pirates spent about $10 million between Latin America and the draft last year; their draft hit slightly above $9 million and I don't think their Dominican and Venezuelan signings totaled up to more than $1 million (correct me if I'm wrong here). A huge chunk of that was Pedro Alvarez, who signed for about $6 million after all the legal wrangling was wrapped up, meaning the Pirates spent somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 million on other draft picks last year.

Now, let's assume that with the fourth pick, the Pirates take Aaron Crow, who refused to sign with the Nats last year for slot money for the ninth pick ($2.15 million) and supposedly turned down an offer from the Nationals for $3.5 million, supposedly about a million less than Crow wanted. By contrast, last year's fourth overall pick, Brian Matusz, received about a $3.2 million signing bonus and pro contract, which (I think) is slightly above slot. We're all familiar with the two players taken in the four-slot the two years prior to Matusz; Danny Moskos signed for $2.5 million and Brad Lincoln signed for $2.75 million.

If we assume that picking someone like Crow, Alex White, Grant Green, or Donovan Tate (the best high school outfield prospect who also has an offer from Butch Davis to come play football in Chapel Hill) will cost $4 million or more, while drafting someone like Kyle Gibson could cost $3 million, do the Pirates make that move? I feel like that's what Huntington's setting us up for with that quote, taking a player that's rated slightly lower and saying they valued him the same as the guys who were left on the board.

Of course, there's not really any consensus at all on who the best prospects are after Strasburg and Ackley, so it'd be really hard to know that the Pirates were doing something like that. If we assume the Pirates' budget is roughly the same as last year's and we budget $4 million for Sano (and the bidding could go above that), the Pirates could have a lot less money to spend on low-round picks this year. The million dollars they could save on a first round pick could go towards signing another Quinton Miller in a late round.

Is that an acceptable path? We can certainly argue with capping the draft/Latin America budget, if that is indeed what happens. Why can't they spend a little more? Where else is the money being spent? And what happens if they do go cheap on the draft in June, only to watch Sano sign with someone else in July? That would certainly be a nightmare, both for the front office and the PR staff.

Of course, the key to remember is that we don't know what the Pirates are planning on doing right now. Since Littlefield's firing, Huntington, Coonelly, and their team have handled all of these kinds of situations properly, so why are we expecting them to screw things up now?

[OnBaseMachine]

Pirates Notebook: Record offer unlikely for Sano
Tuesday, June 02, 2009
By Dejan Kovacevic, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Do not expect the Pirates to shatter Major League Baseball's record bonus to sign elite Dominican prospect Miguel Angel Sano.

The team remains intensely interested in Sano, a 16-year-old shortstop/outfielder, and the same is known to be true in the reverse, as Sano, his family and agent Rob Plummer have forged a tight relationship with Latin American scouting director Rene Gayo. But there were strong indications from the team's front office yesterday that the $4.25 million bonus Oakland gave to Dominican pitcher Michael Inoa will not be the bar for an offer to Sano.

Rather, the Pirates plan to place a value on Sano as they do all players, by talent level -- which the team views as special -- and by the market. The Dominican market for 16-year-olds, as they see it, remains below the outlier bonus the Athletics gave Inoa, as the previous range for elite prospects had been mostly between $2 million and $3 million.

The Pirates would not need any financial infusion to produce a competitive offer for Sano, given that they spent $9.8 million on the amateur draft last year and surely will not rival that figure in the draft next week, given that no talent comparable to Pedro Alvarez will be available when they pick at No. 4 overall. Alvarez, No. 2 overall, took up $6.355 million of the total draft budget, and the recommended slot for No. 4 this year will be an estimated $2.5 million.

The first day that 16-year-old international prospects -- who, essentially, are free agents -- can sign is July 2.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09153/974284-63.stm?cmpid=pirates.xml

[New Fever]

Bad news it doesn't look like the Reds are the favorites on any of the Top 20 Latin American prospects. I can't believe a team would spend over 7 million dollars (the most of any team last year) and then not sign any of the top 20 talents the next year.


6. Jose Pena: Projected Team/Bonus: Pena was the hottest name on the island after his showing in BP and against Team Canada, with over 15 teams said to be legitimately interested. The field has been narrowed after a hectic private workout schedule, with the Indians, Giants, and Brewers as the current favorites, although the Dodgers and Padres are also very interested. Pena’s bonus was expected to be around $500,000 just a few short weeks ago, but he now appears to be ensured of a seven-figure pay day, with estimates going as high as $1.5 million.


14. Chris Cabrera, RHP, Dominican Republic
Height/Weight: 6'1"/185
A number of teams have been chasing Cabrera, with eight clubs showing significant interest or getting private workouts recently. Cabrera has some projection, but he's shorter than many of the other July 2nd pitching prospects, making up for it with more polished stuff and command. He works at 90-91 with his fastball (touching 94), and shows promise with a slider and changeup that both grade out as average at times (with potential for more). The Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Rangers, and Rays are all finalists for Cabrera, who should be looking at a bonus in the $500-700,000 range.

[OnBaseMachine]

I just saw that. It looks like those who said the Reds wouldn't sign anyone this year were correct. It looks like the Reds were all talk.

[ochoa30]

Bad news it doesn't look like the Reds are the favorites on any of the Top 20 Latin American prospects. I can't believe a team would spend over 7 million dollars (the most of any team last year) and then not sign any of the top 20 talents the next year.


6. Jose Pena: Projected Team/Bonus: Pena was the hottest name on the island after his showing in BP and against Team Canada, with over 15 teams said to be legitimately interested. The field has been narrowed after a hectic private workout schedule, with the Indians, Giants, and Brewers as the current favorites, although the Dodgers and Padres are also very interested. Pena’s bonus was expected to be around $500,000 just a few short weeks ago, but he now appears to be ensured of a seven-figure pay day, with estimates going as high as $1.5 million.


14. Chris Cabrera, RHP, Dominican Republic
Height/Weight: 6'1"/185
A number of teams have been chasing Cabrera, with eight clubs showing significant interest or getting private workouts recently. Cabrera has some projection, but he's shorter than many of the other July 2nd pitching prospects, making up for it with more polished stuff and command. He works at 90-91 with his fastball (touching 94), and shows promise with a slider and changeup that both grade out as average at times (with potential for more). The Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Rangers, and Rays are all finalists for Cabrera, who should be looking at a bonus in the $500-700,000 range.

Hopefully they will spend big on the draft then. Very dissappointing for sure though.

[Mario-Rijo]

I just saw that. It looks like those who said the Reds wouldn't sign anyone this year were correct. It looks like the Reds were all talk.

Yet another sign that they got scurred and tightened their belts.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Kiley McDaniel:

I'll talk you off the ledge. The Reds were mentioned with a few of these players that have lots of teams on them, so they may still grab one of those guys. Keep in mind there are many top Latin prospects, even recent ones, who signed for a small bonus on July 2nd. Also, no list is perfect: there are some good players I didn't write about.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9027

[Superdude]

that's sucks a little bit. I was kinda hoping we'd stick to that plan a little longer than one year.

[OnBaseMachine]

that's sucks a little bit. I was kinda hoping we'd stick to that plan a little longer than one year.

It's still early. IIRC, last year Baseball America didn't list the Reds among the contenders for Yorman Rodriguez and look who he ended up signing with. I feel a little better after seeing Kiley's response in the comments section below his article. He said the Reds were mentioned with a few of those players that have a lot of teams on them, and the Reds may still sign one of them.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jose Pena is impressive, but the kid I really want is Christopher Cabrera. He's still got some projectability (6-foot-1, 185) and throws his fastball at 90-91 and can dial it up to 94. He also throws a slider and changeup that both grade out as average already with room to improve. Sign this kid and let Mario Soto work with him.

[RED VAN HOT]

It is starting to look like a feeding frenzy in Latin America. The expanded interest could only mean higher prices. I suspect that the days of "cheap" discoveries are over. The higher prices being attached to 16 year olds are pushing ML franchises toward more risky investments. I can understand why the Reds may want to be a little cautious here. Let's see how last year's crop looks in rookie ball. I don't think that a year of lower level participation means that the Reds are out of this market.

[OnBaseMachine]

John Fay wrote this earlier today:


I don't think signability would be a huge issue with Crow because I don't think he'd go back to Independent ball. Buckley told me the other day that they plan in being aggressive again the Carribean. So I don't think they wanted to blow the budget on someone way out of slot.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a757bedf4-9225-420e-9058-52fdfb0ba399&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

[bellhead]

John Fay wrote this earlier today:



http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog07&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3ae57bcc87-152a-4f72-96fb-cc08b1f396efPost%3a757bedf4-9225-420e-9058-52fdfb0ba399&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com


Great news to start the day with. Sign as many as you can. :beerme:

It seems like the Reds have a real strategy for the first time in 20 years. Build from the minors.

[RedlegJake]

I don't think the Reds are even remotely out of it this year. I'm willing to bet they sign at least one top international prospect, as well a litter of cheaper unsung guys.

[OnBaseMachine]

Major League Baseball investigators are looking into irregularities as to whether Dominican shortstop prospect Miguel Angel Sano might have altered his age, according to two sources close to the situation.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4271392&name=arangure_jorge_jr&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4271392%26name%3daran gure_jorge_jr

[dougdirt]

Major League Baseball investigators are looking into irregularities as to whether Dominican shortstop prospect Miguel Angel Sano might have altered his age, according to two sources close to the situation.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4271392&name=arangure_jorge_jr&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4271392%26name%3daran gure_jorge_jr

Much ado about nothing. Talked with Kiley McDaniel last week and one team did some sort of bone aging process on him and it shows that he is no older than 17. The Twins are apparently big time in on Sano and he is expected to sign with either the Twins or Pirates at this point and the Twins asked MLB to help them looking into his background before they throw that much money at him.

[OnBaseMachine]

According to Baseball America, the Reds are one of three teams (Reds, Red Sox, Mets) in on 16-year-old German outfielder Max Kepler. He's one of the best European prospects to come along in years according to BA. He throws and bats left handed, is athletic, and has a projectable body at 6-foot-4 and 180 pounds. The Reds have signed a few players from Germany in the past few years.

[nate]

According to Baseball America, the Reds are one of three teams (Reds, Red Sox, Mets) in on 16-year-old German outfielder Max Kepler. He's one of the best European prospects to come along in years according to BA. He throws and bats left handed, is athletic, and has a projectable body at 6-foot-4 and 180 pounds. The Reds have signed a few players from Germany in the past few years.

Any relation to Johannes?

[klw]

Any relation to Johannes?

Well if the planets align he could be a star in the rotation.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Ben Badler's twitter page:

Are you hearing the Reds connected to anyone?

Reds are usually active in Venezuela. They're also interested in German OF Max Kepler, I hear

[fearofpopvol1]

It might be tough to outbid the Mets and BoSox...who are loaded.

[OnBaseMachine]

Kiley McDaniel says the Reds were one of the teams heavily interested in Guillermo Pimentel at the beginning of this year but halfway through the year he suffered an injury and now it appears he'll sign with the Mariners or Rangers for $2 million.

[dougdirt]

Kiley McDaniel says the Reds were one of the teams heavily interested in Guillermo Pimentel at the beginning of this year but halfway through the year he suffered an injury and now it appears he'll sign with the Mariners or Rangers for $2 million.
What was he asking before the injury if $2M is the 'lowered' price?

[OnBaseMachine]

What was he asking before the injury if $2M is the 'lowered' price?

He's been asking for $2 million all along. The injury wasn't too serious. I think it was the same injury as Alonso has. After Pimentel injured himself, he went into hiding for a while and many teams thought that meant he had a deal struck with another team so they backed off. It turns out he was just letting his hand heal. After all that, it appears he's down to the Mariners or Rangers, though his agent is letting it be known that he's still available.

By the way, Wagner Mateo turned down a $3 million offer from the Cardinals. Bad decision, IMO. He's a good player but scouts think he'll have to move off CF and they're not sure if he has enough power to make an impact at a corner outfield spot.

[travisgrimes]

I'm hearing Chrisopher Cabrera, Max Kepler, Jose Pena, could all sign with the Reds if Walt offers enough money. I'm also hearing Kepler wants a $1.5-2.5 million bonus, Cabrera would like $ 3 million and Pena would also like somewhere between $ 3-4 million but I think it's well worth that money to sign all three if you look at their raw talent.

[dougdirt]

im hearing chrisopher cabrera, max kepler, jose pena, could all sign with the Reds if Walt's offers enough money... im hearing kepler wants a $1.5-2.5 million bonus, cabrera would like $ 3 million and pena would also like somewhere between $ 3-4 million but i think its well worth that money to sign all 3 if u look at their raw talent.

I don't mean to pile on or anything, but can you at least capitalize guys names and words that start a sentence? It probably wouldn't hurt to type out you either. It just makes everything so much easier to read.

[travisgrimes]

Sorry I got so used to typing short-hand talking to friends online it kind of just got turned into a bad habit. I will try from now on to type normally so it's easier for you guys to read. I really do apologize though.

[Hoosier Red]

Sorry I got so used to typing short-hand talking to friends online it kind of just got turned into a bad habit. I will try from now on to type normally so it's easier for you guys to read. I really do apologize though.

No biggie, it's important to have information, but the easier to read the better.
Thanks for letting us know what you know.

[bellhead]

I'm hearing Chrisopher Cabrera, Max Kepler, Jose Pena, could all sign with the Reds if Walt offers enough money. I'm also hearing Kepler wants a $1.5-2.5 million bonus, Cabrera would like $ 3 million and Pena would also like somewhere between $ 3-4 million but I think it's well worth that money to sign all three if you look at their raw talent.

Where do you rate these guys talent wise???

Top 50 in the MLB draft type guys?

[dougdirt]

Where do you rate these guys talent wise???

Top 50 in the MLB draft type guys?

Its so tough to rate guys like these in terms of the draft market, simply because of their rawness in terms of actual baseball skills. These guys are drafted purely on athleticism and potential. They are high school sophomores who really aren't playing a high school schedule. Most of them also haven't had the best nutrition growing up either and have a lot of filling out to do.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Ben Badler:

Some scouts telling me 16 year-old German OF Max Kepler is the best prospect they've ever seen from Europe

http://twitter.com/BenBadler

[Benihana]

From Ben Badler:

Some scouts telling me 16 year-old German OF Max Kepler is the best prospect they've ever seen from Europe

http://twitter.com/BenBadler

With all due respect, who is the competition?

[lollipopcurve]

With all due respect, who is the competition?

Are you disrespecting Robert Eenhoorn?

[OnBaseMachine]

The Reds are among the finalists for Christopher Cabrera.

So to be clear: #Yankees, #Red Sox, #Reds and #Padres are finalists for Dominican P Cristopher Cabrera

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[OnBaseMachine]

From ESPN's Jorge Arangure:

Have heard #Reds mentioned with VZ SS Humberto Valor

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[OnBaseMachine]

Scout on Humberto Valor: "best position player prospect in VZ." Athletic, advanced approach at plate, hard contact line drive stroke.

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

Hopefully the Reds can sign him.

[Benihana]

If they sign Valor, I think that would end talk of signing Marrero or Perez. While I would like to sign one of the Miami kids, I'd be happy with getting the best position player prospect in Venezuela two years in a row.

Bobby Abreu, Magglio Ordonez, Miguel Cabrera, Edgar Renteria, Carlos Guillen, Victor Martinez- there's been some pretty good position players to come out of that part of the world.

[11larkin11]

Found a couple boxscores on Kepler after a quick Google search. One game he was 0-4, but reached on error once and stole second, went to third on error, and stole home. Other game had a couple hits including a HR, and single, after which he stole second and third. Seems pretty fast

[OnBaseMachine]

From Jorge Arangure:

#Reds scouting director Chris Buckley is returning from trip to VZ to see top SS Humberto Valor. Cinci is considered one of the top suitors

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[Grande Donkey]

I'd say Valor is just about a lock to go to the Reds.

[OnBaseMachine]

VZ SS Humberto Valor is expected to get a bonus of around $1.5m-$2.2 m. Top suitors appear to be #Reds and #Braves.

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[bellhead]

Didn't we once have a SS from VZ, that worked out pretty good.

Hope it happens.

[OnBaseMachine]

I'll be extremely happy if the Reds sign Humberto Valor and one of the following: RHP Christopher Cabrera (Dominican Republic), OF Jose Alberto Pena (Dominican Republic), or OF Max Kepler-Rozycki (Germany). I'll still be pleased if they only sign Valor but it sure would be nice to add another big prospect to go along with Valor.

[Plus Plus]

Does the signing period start in about an hour, at midnight? Or is there a time on 7/1 that it can begin?

[Plus Plus]

Sorry, I saw in the first post that the signing period starts on 7/2. Does it start at midnight? Should we expect a flood of signings right away, in the first couple hours of the night?

[travisgrimes]

not exactly... although most should sign within 2-3 days

[Plus Plus]

ok, thanks for the answer!

[OnBaseMachine]

Here's who the Reds have been strongly linked to:

-Venezuelan shortstop Humberto Valor - Reds and Braves are the finalists.

-Dominican RHP Christopher Cabrera - Reds, Red Sox, Yankees, and Padres are finalists.

-German OF Max Kepler-Rozycki - Reds, Red Sox, and Mets are considered the finalists.

The Reds have also been mentioned with Dominican OFer Jose Alberto Pena, though he appears to be a longshot at this point.

[OnBaseMachine]

chris cabrera. NYY/BOS/CIN/ATL finalists 500-700k range 6'1 RHP hit 95 good SL & CH

http://twitter.com/kileymcd

[travisgrimes]

wow Cabrera must have come down on his price demands cuz from what I heard he want 2-3 million but i guess the economic times may have persuaded him but anyways I'd still offer him 1 million and sign Valor, Kepler and hell make a run for Pena as well

[11larkin11]

chris cabrera. NYY/BOS/CIN/ATL finalists 500-700k range 6'1 RHP hit 95 good SL & CH

http://twitter.com/kileymcd

You'd think we may have a real good shot, considering those other 3 are there and we're still in the running. He must really like something about us.

[krm1580]

Scout on Humberto Valor: "best position player prospect in VZ." Athletic, advanced approach at plate, hard contact line drive stroke.

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

Hopefully the Reds can sign him.

[OnBaseMachine]

That's a premium info from BA. You may want to delete it.

[OnBaseMachine]

11:36 am What are the chances of the Reds signing Humberto Valor, the VZ shortstop? Are the Reds in on anymore July 2nd prospects?

bob_miller:
11:38 am We have made major strides in signing great Latin talent over the past few years. We have seen all of the best talent down there and expect to be in the hunt for several of the better players

http://www.forums.mlb.com/ml-cinevent/chat?redirCnt=1

[OnBaseMachine]

Just a reminder, players can begin signing at midnight tonight, though most teams won't announce their signings until tomorrow or later.

[Benihana]

If it's Valor and Cabrera, I'd consider that a nice haul- nothing like last year, but still a nice haul.

[Plus Plus]

I would think that last years IFA class would be considered a rare haul. Getting two top talents from the LA market is fine by me, and if the Reds can keep it up year after year then they should be in good shape for years down the line.

[camisadelgolf]

Didn't we once have a SS from VZ, that worked out pretty good.

Hope it happens.
Actually, the Reds still have Alex Gonzalez. :D

[OnBaseMachine]

From Jorge Arangure:

#Yankees, #Braves, #Brewers and #Marlins also have interest in Ferreira. #Reds, #Tigers, #Pirates, #Astros also have intrest in Peña.

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

That's Kirby Pena, a LHP expected to receive a $700-800k bonus.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Ben Badler:

#Yankees making their moves. Hearing Dominican RHP Christopher Cabrera to the Yankees for $400K

http://twitter.com/BenBadler

$400K? That's all? The Reds need to come in and offer 600K. If the Yanks want to get in a bidding war, fine, let them have him. But at least make a better offer than that.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jorge Arangure:

#Reds appear to be inching ahead of #Braves in fight for VZ SS Humberto Valor.

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[texasdave]

Jorge Arangure:

#Reds appear to be inching ahead of #Braves in fight for VZ SS Humberto Valor.

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

Just proves that baseball really is a game of inches. :)

[Homer Bailey]

We shouldn't spend more than $3,500 on a LA player, because that's all it took to sign Cueto :D.

[OnBaseMachine]

BREAKING: DR OF Jose Alberto Peña will sign with the #Brewers. Bonus amount coming info coming...

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[travisgrimes]

wow the Reds need to offer more than that 400K or so for Cabrera he is easily worth 600K-800K or more really

[Mario-Rijo]

wow the Reds need to offer more than that 400K or so for Cabrera he is easily worth 600K-800K or more really

And they would if they weren't pinching pennies, they can spin anything they want though, again Walt is master of the spin job. I suppose someone will suggest that maybe he wasn't worth it. But I foresee them coming up mostly empty and claiming they were just outbid this year, but they will get 1 or 2 parting gifts (low ticket prospects) to show they didn't come away completely empty. At last check we seem to be ahead for Valor which between he, Marrero and Perez we have the money I presume after that Barnhart and then zilch is my guess. Then the trading period (and what money we cut loose of) may determine how much we try to do before August 17th.

I hate being pessimistic but since they tightened their belts in the offseason they have seemingly watched every penny very closely and have done nothing to disprove they are being frugal right now. Which heck even that's ok it's their money but don't blow smoke up my butt and expect me to enjoy it.

[bubbachunk]

Wasn't there a bunch of belly aching that we were being cheap during the draft only for us to sign a handful of guys above slot and the one guy everyone was clamoring for had a torn up shoulder? Oh how quickly some forget. Just let things play out and get all the info before anyone should start to complain.

[Cedric]

And they would if they weren't pinching pennies, they can spin anything they want though, again Walt is master of the spin job. I suppose someone will suggest that maybe he wasn't worth it. But I foresee them coming up mostly empty and claiming they were just outbid this year, but they will get 1 or 2 parting gifts (low ticket prospects) to show they didn't come away completely empty. At last check we seem to be ahead for Valor which between he, Marrero and Perez we have the money I presume after that Barnhart and then zilch is my guess. Then the trading period (and what money we cut loose of) may determine how much we try to do before August 17th.

I hate being pessimistic but since they tightened their belts in the offseason they have seemingly watched every penny very closely and have done nothing to disprove they are being frugal right now. Which heck even that's ok it's their money but don't blow smoke up my butt and expect me to enjoy it.

You say all this because of MAYBE being outbid by the YANKEES?

[OnBaseMachine]

According to Kiley McDaniel, the Yankees will not sign RHP Christopher Cabrera. That leaves the Reds, Red Sox, and Braves as his likely destination.

[Mario-Rijo]

You say all this because of MAYBE being outbid by the YANKEES?

Just feel like it's a preview of things to come. Outbid by whomever for Cabrera, outbid by whomever for Kepler, outbid by whomever for Valor etc.

[Cedric]

Just feel like it's a preview of things to come. Outbid by whomever for Cabrera, outbid by whomever for Kepler, outbid by whomever for Valor etc.

I think you said this after the Leake pick. I said calm down and see if we go above slot later. We did.

[OnBaseMachine]

The Yankees DID sign Christopher Cabrera.

11:07 AM: Three more signings to report, two for less money than expected and one for what I expected. The Brewers have inked RF Jose Pena for $400,000, the Yankees have signed RHP Chris Cabrera for $400,000, and it was confirmed that the Yankees reached a deal with SS Damian Arredondo for $850,000. Sanchez, Arredondo and Cabrera will be the only three signings by the Yankees today, so Jose Osuna apparently will not sign with the Yankees. Two reactions to these pieces of news:

1. Steal by the Brewers. I had a chance to see Pena in action and while some of the $1 million talk could have been misinformation or marketing by people trying to pump his value, $400k is a very nice buy here for Milwaukee.

2. Turns out it wasn’t exactly $4 million the Yankees were going to spend, but actually $4.25 (or so, with the Sanchez bonus being a slight gray area). Cue Yankee blogs discussing whether this was some sort of statement by the club about Ynoa’s price last year and whether they’d take Ynoa or the Sanchez/Arredondo/Cabrera trio.

11:10 AM: A source close to the situation says that 21-year-old Cuban LHP Aroldis Chapman indeed has defected. There were conflicting reports about the accuracy of a report about this story yesterday.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1327

Sure would've been nice to see the Reds jump in and offer about $600k for Pena.

[OnBaseMachine]

From what i hear, Valor won't likely be signing this week. Heard there were a lot of teams who attended his workout this week

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[lollipopcurve]

On Valor, the Reds need to get Venezuelas SS legends Concepcion and Gonzo to do a little recruiting, if it's not all "dollar wins the day."

[redsfandan]

How many international prospects are expected to sign?

[OnBaseMachine]

12:05 PM: A few teams have checked in with me to say that they won’t confirm signings until physical are passed, contracts approved by MLB, any pending investigations are completed, etc. Some of these clubs have recently signed guys with falsified ages (lots of teams have), so they just don’t want it out there until they’re as certain as they can be that all their ducks are in a row, which is completely understandable. That combined with a number of guys not signing on July 2nd for other reasons (covered in today’s article) will make the release of confirmed signings and bonus amounts a slow trickle. Maybe I should start eating and sleeping again.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1327

[OnBaseMachine]

#Reds top target is Humberto Valor and he isn't likely to sign today

http://twitter.com/home?status=@kileymcd%20&in_reply_to_status_id=2440087513&in_reply_to=kileymcd

[OnBaseMachine]

3:28 PM: This might be the last update of the day. Talked to some agents and clubs and it seems like all of this morning’s news was stuff that was done days or weeks ago and we’re now into a secondary market of sorts. Negotiations are just now heating up with this next group of players, but not much movement is expected today. The second and third tier players are now fielding offers from teams that are formulating their final answers after watching the elite guys line up and set the market. It’s a similar to how lots of draft picks in sports like football or basketball won’t sign until the guy ahead of them sets a ceiling they can negotiate under. It’s almost like there’s a second signing period that will open up in a day or two with teams currently getting their boards finalized and sending out offers while agents search for the best deal. Of course now that I’ve said that I’m sure 30 deals will get done in the next 5 minutes

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=1327

[camisadelgolf]

We shouldn't spend more than $3,500 on a LA player, because that's all it took to sign Cueto :D.
Supposedly, that number was a typo, and he was actually signed for 10 times more than what was reported. I can't find the quote, but Wayne Krivsky said it.

[fearofpopvol1]

Supposedly, that number was a typo, and he was actually signed for 10 times more than what was reported. I can't find the quote, but Wayne Krivsky said it.

$35K I think was the number. Still, not a bad signing! :thumbup:

[OnBaseMachine]

From Ben Badler:

July 2 signing: #Twins sign German OF Max Kepler. Bonus not available but it should be new European bonus record

http://twitter.com/BenBadler

[11larkin11]

From Ben Badler:

July 2 signing: #Twins sign German OF Max Kepler. Bonus not available but it should be new European bonus record

http://twitter.com/BenBadler

Boy, we're pretty much 0fer. Hope they used the money they've saved in the international market to get Marrero, Perez, Barnhart, and Fowler.

Would be very nice to catch a surprise and get Chapman. That guy is nasty.

[OnBaseMachine]

The Reds sign Humberto Valor!

From Kiley McDaniel:

BREAKING: Confirmed that the #Reds signed Venezuelan SS Humberto Valor. Chasing down bonus details; predictions of $ were all over the map.

http://twitter.com/kileymcd/statuses/2461682844

[dougdirt]

Reds sign Humberto Valor according to a tweet from CTrent.

[OnBaseMachine]

From Jorge Arangure:

Valor was considered by some as the best position player in VZ.True SS. Athletic. Advanced approach. Line drive hitter. Great sign for #Reds

http://twitter.com/jorgearangure

[GIDP]

Nice. Glad to see they didnt sit back like some of us expected this year.

[Tony Cloninger]

Good to hear......after Fay wrote they would do something there....and they actually did.

[corkedbat]

Man, if the kid lives up to the billing and is a strong candidate as a true SS, then this farm system just got strong by this one signing alone. Love this pickup.

[redsfandan]

Reds Sign Humberto Valor
By Mike Axisa [July 3 at 6:43pm CST]
Kiley McDaniel tweets that the Reds have signed Venezuelan shortstop Humberto Valor. The bonus is said to be in the "high six figures." Valor was rated as the 25th best prospect on the international market this year by Baseball America's Ben Badler, and is said be a solid all-around player with good instincts and very good defense at short.

[fearofpopvol1]

There's great news...but do you think it means the Reds probably don't (aggressively) try to sign Marerro/Perez?

[Plus Plus]

I think another question is: how does Valor profile compared to Marrero and Perez? Doug, OBM, or anyone else, any idea?

[dougdirt]

I think another question is: how does Valor profile compared to Marrero and Perez? Doug, OBM, or anyone else, any idea?

Unless its a top 5 International guy, the scouting reports we get are very brief on guys. We don't know much about him compared to draftees.

[Plus Plus]

Ok, thanks Doug!

[lollipopcurve]

Nice. Credit the organization with another solid effort in Latin America this year.

[fearofpopvol1]

I think another question is: how does Valor profile compared to Marrero and Perez? Doug, OBM, or anyone else, any idea?

Even taking the profiling out of the equation...I think it signals the fact that the Reds may not sign these guys if for nothing else...there really aren't many roster spots for these guys to get good playing time.

[redsfandan]

International Free Agent Signings: Saturday
By Mike Axisa [July 4 at 12:39pm CST]
These signings will trickle in throughout the day, so let's keep track of the notable signings in one post. Keeping checking back in for updates.

•Baseball America's Ben Badler reports that the Padres have signed Dominican centerfielder Yoan Alcantara. ESPN's Jorge Arangure says he received a $135,000 signing bonus. Alcantara is said to be a good athlete with plus speed and a plus arm.
•Arangure tweets that the Rockies signed Dominican shortstop Rosmel Herrera for $550,000.
•Andrew Baggarly of The San Jose Mercury News says that the Giants signed righthander Marvin Barrios out of Panama to a six-figure bonus.

[LoganBuck]

I'm hearing Chrisopher Cabrera, Max Kepler, Jose Pena, could all sign with the Reds if Walt offers enough money. I'm also hearing Kepler wants a $1.5-2.5 million bonus, Cabrera would like $ 3 million and Pena would also like somewhere between $ 3-4 million but I think it's well worth that money to sign all three if you look at their raw talent.

Did things change, or were your sources off base?

[OnBaseMachine]

Reds sign four Venezuelan amateurs
Haul includes Valor, considered a top position player
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

07/06/09 8:59 PM ET

PHILADELPHIA -- For the second consecutive year, the Reds have scored during the international signing period.

It was announced Monday that 16-year-old shortstop Humberto Valor was signed out of Venezuela. In various reports, Valor, listed at 6-foot-1, 185 pounds, was considered by some scouts to be the country's best position-player prospect.

A signing bonus wasn't revealed, but it's believed that Valor received something far below the seven-figure range.

Also signed by the Reds from Venezuela were third baseman Juan Peraza and outfielders Argenis Aldazoro and Adrian Rodrigue.

In 2008, the Reds signed two 16-year-old outfielders in Juan Duran and Yorman Rodriguez. Duran was considered one of the game's best international prospects and received a $2 million signing bonus.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090706&content_id=5731026&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

[Plus Plus]

Anything at all re: Peraza, Aldazoro or Rodrigue?

[OnBaseMachine]

Kudos to New Fever for posting a link from Peter Gammons in the Humberto Valor thread. According to Gammons, Humberto Valor signed for $1.5 million. He also says the Reds have spent $3.8 million on International signings, the sixth highest total of any organization.

Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4316025&name=gammons_peter

[bellhead]

Who are the other guys????

[princeton]

it's an interesting link. I think that the quote that really jumps out is this one:


"It is amazing to see these kids in a tryout setting -- they can tune up a BP fastball and run the 60 but lack instincts and most basic fundamentals," one international scouting director said. "When we put them in games, their lack of game-playing skills stick out -- they can't slide, don't recognize situations. But buscones continue to emphasize power, arm strength and speed -- nothing else."


looking at several scouting videos, I was thinking the same thing-- these kids have REALLY trained to hit in batting practice. their feet are set to one speed (slow).

but they do produce a nice video.

let's hope all that money wasn't thrown down a rathole. ;)

[OnBaseMachine]

Who are the other guys????

Also signed by the Reds from Venezuela were third baseman Juan Peraza and outfielders Argenis Aldazoro and Adrian Rodrigue.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090706&content_id=5731026&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

[bellhead]

Also signed by the Reds from Venezuela were third baseman Juan Peraza and outfielders Argenis Aldazoro and Adrian Rodrigue.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090706&content_id=5731026&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

tx

[OnBaseMachine]

Miguel Sano Agrees To Terms With Twins

Posted Sep. 29, 2009 6:05 pm by Ben Badler
Filed under: International

Nearly three months after becoming eligible to sign, Miguel Sano has agreed to terms for a $3.15 million bonus with the Twins. The deal will be officially signed tomorrow.

Sano, 16, is a 6-foot-3, 190-pound shortstop from the Dominican Republic. Excluding Cuban defectors, Sano’s bonus is the largest bonus given to a player this summer for an international amateur player. It’s the second-largest Latin American signing bonus ever behind Dominican righthander Michael Ynoa, who signed with the Athletics last year for $4.25 million, and the largest ever for a Latin American position player.

Dominican catcher Gary Sanchez, who signed with the Yankees for $3 million on July 2, held the previous record for a Latin American position player. The Cardinals had agreed to terms with Dominican outfielder Wagner Mateo for $3.1 million on July 2, but voided the deal because the organization said he did not pass his physical.

Baseball America subscribers can access Sano’s full scouting report here.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=6658

[Brutus]

Miguel Sano Agrees To Terms With Twins

Posted Sep. 29, 2009 6:05 pm by Ben Badler
Filed under: International

Nearly three months after becoming eligible to sign, Miguel Sano has agreed to terms for a $3.15 million bonus with the Twins. The deal will be officially signed tomorrow.

Sano, 16, is a 6-foot-3, 190-pound shortstop from the Dominican Republic. Excluding Cuban defectors, Sano’s bonus is the largest bonus given to a player this summer for an international amateur player. It’s the second-largest Latin American signing bonus ever behind Dominican righthander Michael Ynoa, who signed with the Athletics last year for $4.25 million, and the largest ever for a Latin American position player.

Dominican catcher Gary Sanchez, who signed with the Yankees for $3 million on July 2, held the previous record for a Latin American position player. The Cardinals had agreed to terms with Dominican outfielder Wagner Mateo for $3.1 million on July 2, but voided the deal because the organization said he did not pass his physical.

Baseball America subscribers can access Sano’s full scouting report here.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=6658

Now THAT sure came out of left field. I kept hearing about the Orioles and Pirates over and over. Kudos to the Twins. If it turns out he's not 21 years old, this might be a great signing. Heck, even if the kid is older than 16, it still might be a real good signing (of course, the crux is that if he is older, he may not be able to stay in the country.)

[Bonzo]

Now THAT sure came out of left field. I kept hearing about the Orioles and Pirates over and over. Kudos to the Twins. If it turns out he's not 21 years old, this might be a great signing. Heck, even if the kid is older than 16, it still might be a real good signing (of course, the crux is that if he is older, he may not be able to stay in the country.)

Somehow it seems like, in his situation, being a year or two older actually might be a blessing in disguise for Sano. One of the primary concerns with him is that he'll get too big to stick at SS or even 3B, perhaps necessitating a move to a corner outfield spot. If he was a bit older than 16, though, he'd have a lot less growing to do.

[Will M]

if the Reds can continue to sign high risk high ceiling youth out of Latin America they can use their first few picks in the draft to sign college players who are 'safer' picks. for example: lets say Leake projected to be a MOR starter in the bigs who is already polished. (ie a low risk medium return type of player). another choice was a high schooler who has all the 'tools' but is very raw (high risk high return). skip the high school player and sign the Leake type because you have already signed several guys similar to the high schooler from Latin America.