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OnBaseMachine
05-04-2009, 06:41 PM
Louisville - 7:05 - RHP Ramon Ramirez

Carolina - 7:15 - RHP Misael DeJesus

Sarasota - 7:00 - RHP Jerry Gil

Dayton - 7:05 - RHP Curtis Partch

GOYA
05-04-2009, 08:44 PM
Where is Ramon Ramirez and who is that guy out there pitching for the Bats?

Bats down 2-0 in the 3rd.

Ramirez 2.0 IP - 4 H - 2 R - 1 ER - 1 BB - 2 K

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2009, 08:46 PM
Devin Mesoraco hit a solo home run in his first atbat. Soto walked.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 08:51 PM
Dorn with a HR on a line to right. :D

2-1 Barons

GOYA
05-04-2009, 09:15 PM
Ramirez gets out of a bases loaded jam.

4 IP - 6 H - 3 R - 2 ER - 3 BB - 3 K

His control is not good.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 09:33 PM
Sweet has seen enough of Ramirez tonight. a hit, an error on Bolivar anda walk to load the bases and Kennard comes in to pitch.

3-1 Barons.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 09:37 PM
Kennard gets a popup, allows a run on a sac fly and ends the inning with a pop fly.

4-1 Red Wings. (Not Barons, what was I thinking?)

membengal
05-04-2009, 09:50 PM
Just throwing this out there, but the WBC did Ramierz NO favors. He shouldn't have gone. He's was barely worked there. And he is way behind where he should be.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 10:11 PM
Stubbs walks, steals 2nd and scores on a Richar single,

4-2 Rochester (I can't mess it up that way) through 6 innings.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 11:06 PM
Not much happening in Louisville. Still 4-2 in the 9th. Bats have 4 errors.

Carolina is getting crushed by Chattanooga. 12-2 in the 8th.

Sarasota lost to Ft. Myers 8-6. Mesoraco, Buchholz and Alonso went 2 for 4 and Mesoraco got his 2nd HR. Kainer went 2 for 5.

Dayton is playing Ft. Wayne.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 11:14 PM
Hopper makes a nice diving grab to save at least two runs. Viola gets out of a shaky inning with no damage done. Manuel pitched pretty well earlier.

Bats need 2 in the 9th.

Reds are now in the 10th, 2-2 with the Fish.

GOYA
05-04-2009, 11:26 PM
Bats lose 4-2.

JayBruceFan
05-04-2009, 11:54 PM
Carolina loses 12-4

Heisey: 2-4 1 Walk

Frazier: 0-5

Francisco: 0-5

Mike Griffin: 3-3


Misael Dejesus: 4 IP 8 Hits 5 Runs 5 Earned Runs 4 Walks 2 Strikeouts 1 Homerun Allowed 10.18 ERA as of tonight

JayBruceFan
05-04-2009, 11:57 PM
Dayton loses 8-7

Sappelt: 1-4

Puckett, Wiley and Day with doubles

Stovall: 0-4 3 Ks AVG down to .125

I think Stovall gets sent down tomorrow in favor of Keltavious Jones for the start of the homestand

HokieRed
05-05-2009, 12:51 AM
Anybody thinking it's time to see Norris Hopper in Cinti?

GIDP
05-05-2009, 12:52 AM
Where is he going to play? Center bench?

membengal
05-05-2009, 08:18 AM
Re: the Hopper question


NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NJReds
05-05-2009, 10:13 AM
Just throwing this out there, but the WBC did Ramierz NO favors. He shouldn't have gone. He's was barely worked there. And he is way behind where he should be.

The list of pitchers that got messed up by the WBC is growing. Dice-K, Oliver Perez, to some extent I think Volquez was behind as well.

GIDP
05-05-2009, 10:32 AM
The list of pitchers that got messed up by the WBC is growing. Dice-K, Oliver Perez, to some extent I think Volquez was behind as well.

I think im gonna blame them on just having bad starts more than the WBC.

Perez is doing extactly what he did last year, and Dice K and Volquez are both walking the world, which is similar to whatthey did last year as well.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-05-2009, 10:38 AM
Anybody thinking it's time to see Norris Hopper in Cinti?

Heck no.

membengal
05-05-2009, 10:44 AM
I think im gonna blame them on just having bad starts more than the WBC.

Perez is doing extactly what he did last year, and Dice K and Volquez are both walking the world, which is similar to whatthey did last year as well.

Don't make me go find the research I have posted three times in ORG on the havoc that was created to SPers after the 2006 WBC. The evidence is FAR from just anecdotal.

GIDP
05-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Don't make me go find the research I have posted three times in ORG on the havoc that was created to SPers after the 2006 WBC. The evidence is FAR from just anecdotal.

Pick 3 better examples next time then.

membengal
05-05-2009, 11:27 AM
I picked Ramirez.

I didn't pick the others.

And you can ignore that evidence if you want, but it is AMPLE to suggest that the biggest problem you get from the WBC for starters is massive disruption to routine. Which is what happened to Ramirez. And then some.

It was easier to find the post I made on my own blog, my apologies for posting it here, in five years I have never cross-linked to my blog, but is the easiest place to reference Nate Silver's data:

http://www.sportsfrog.com/2009/02/28/fed-into-the-world-baseball-classic-maw/

GIDP
05-05-2009, 11:46 AM
yea you didnt pick him whoops sorry, but I still think the link isn't that big for it to matter that much. Could it effect some? Sure, but is it solely to blame for when a pitcher has a bad year? Nope.

membengal
05-05-2009, 11:48 AM
Did you look at Nate Silver's data from 2006? Or are you just going to ignore it?

And I missed the part where we had played the entire 2009 season yet. I posited that an explanation for Ramirez's slow start was his ill-advised decision to go to the WBC. That supposition was based on real actual data from 2006 that provides a baseline with regard to the potential problem. I would hope that as the year goes on, and he gets properly loose (he's really just at the tail end of a natural spring training at this point), he will revert to being fine.

batsfan
05-05-2009, 11:52 AM
I remember hearing the the Venezuelan WBC pitching coach was telling Ramon Ramirez to throw his change-up less often. Bad advice IMO. His change up is by far and away his best pitch. I was at the game last night and Ramirez had NO control. It seemed like half his pitches were in the dirt, and all the hits were screaming liners.

GIDP
05-05-2009, 11:57 AM
Did you look at Nate Silver's data from 2006? Or are you just going to ignore it?

And I missed the part where we had played the entire 2009 season yet. I posited that an explanation for Ramirez's slow start was his ill-advised decision to go to the WBC. That supposition was based on real actual data from 2006 that provides a baseline with regard to the potential problem I would hope that as the year goes on, and he gets properly loose (he's really just at the tail end of a natural spring training at this point), he will revert to being fine.

I didnt ignore it at all, I just say the connection isnt strong enough for me to jump on the board that the WBC ruins pitchers.

membengal
05-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Well, I focused on just one pitcher. Ramirez. And there is data that in 2006 the WBC adversely affected a large number of starting pitchers. The word "ruin" is yours. You are strawmaning that into a conversation to argue a point that no one is making.

My basic premise is that a possible explanation for Ramirez's slow start is his participation in the WBC. I am unconvinced that is potentially wrong explanation based upon "nuh uh".

NJReds
05-05-2009, 12:17 PM
I didnt ignore it at all, I just say the connection isnt strong enough for me to jump on the board that the WBC ruins pitchers.

Not ruined. But a contributing factor to their slow starts and/or DL stints. Definitely behind in their conditioning and prepartion for the regular season.

membengal
05-05-2009, 12:18 PM
Correct. You didn't say ruined. I didn't say ruined. And the hypothesis that the WBC was less than optimal for some starting pitchers in terms of quick starts to the season is fair.

GIDP
05-05-2009, 12:31 PM
So in other words I have to agree with you or I'm just simply wrong?

membengal
05-05-2009, 12:36 PM
No, but it would be nice if you not take a simple proposition and reword it to fit your needs and then call it wrong. Further, I acknowledge it is uncertain as to whether the WBC is the source of Ramirez's issues. That's why I called it a "possible" explanation, and a "hypothesis", each of which denote uncertainty. It could be that Ramirez just sucks, independent of going to the WBC. It could be an injury. It could be bad luck. It could be the WBC. It could be a combination of things. It could be none of those things. But I am unsure how I require agreement from you with regard to my general wondering. You don't agree that it is a factor. I point to data that shows it could be. Life goes on.

If I had said Ramirez is "ruined", then, sure, have at it. I didn't. No one did. Putting words into my mouth and then disagreeing with them is less than satisfactory from my position.

GIDP
05-05-2009, 12:42 PM
I think it could be a factor but I just think other factors are much more likely. People just want to blame WBC because it seems easier.

Then they dont want to explain other pitchers who come from the WBC and pitch perfectly fine.

Bumstead
05-05-2009, 12:56 PM
Hey

Soto walked! His first walk of the year in 90 some odd plate appearances...He has got to develop at least some plate discipline. The good thing is, he's not striking out much.

Hopper...no...

Bum

OnBaseMachine
05-05-2009, 01:53 PM
Just say no to Norris Hopper in Cincy.

Mario-Rijo
05-05-2009, 06:13 PM
Hey

Soto walked! His first walk of the year in 90 some odd plate appearances...He has got to develop at least some plate discipline. The good thing is, he's not striking out much.

Hopper...no...

Bum

LOL, sorry don't know if you meant to be funny with the way you started that post but it made me laugh. Here I am reading this argument of sorts between Mem and GIDP and then all of a sudden.....Hey Soto Walked! Just struck me as a went to a fight and a baseball game broke out sort of thing. :D