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View Full Version : Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+



M2
05-05-2009, 12:57 PM
A lot of copy gets devoted to Micah Owings' hitting skills, and many have suggested he give up pitching for life as a position player. Without venturing an opinion on that question, I will say that a pitcher who can hit is kooky fun.

With that in mind I thought it might make some sense to track Owings' ERA+ relative to his OPS+. Is he a better hitter than a pitcher? Well, we can follow his performance against a park-adjusted average in order to make that determination.

In 2007 he had a respectable 109 ERA+ and a phenomenal 153 OPS+.

In 2008 he had a lousy 77 ERA+ and a mediocre (though stellar for a pitcher) 97 OPS+

So far this season he's got a 94 ERA+ and a 97 OPS+.

SirFelixCat
05-05-2009, 01:09 PM
Can you break those 2 stats down for those of us who don't know what they mean in SABR terms? Thanks!

BuckeyeRedleg
05-05-2009, 01:16 PM
100 ERA+ = average
100 OPS+ = average

above 100 = above average
below 100 = below average

OPS+ definition from Wikipedia:

OPS+, Adjusted OPS, is a closely related statistic. OPS+ is OPS adjusted for the park and the league in which the player played, but not for fielding position. An OPS+ of 100 is defined to be the league average. An OPS+ of 150 or more is excellent and 125 very good, while an OPS+ of 75 or below is poor.

Another explanation of both OPS+ and ERA+.

http://blog.nj.com/yankees/2009/01/explaining_ops_and_era.html

SirFelixCat
05-05-2009, 01:25 PM
Cool, thanks. So is his OPS+ right near average as a ML positional player or strictly as a NL pitcher? IOW, is OPS+ adjusted, or measured by, position or just 'league average'? Ie. pitchers vs pitchers, 2B vs 2B etc.

I assume it's just ML player, not broken down by position, but just thought I'd clear that up too, thanks!

nate
05-05-2009, 01:34 PM
Cool, thanks. So is his OPS+ right near average as a ML positional player or strictly as a NL pitcher? IOW, is OPS+ adjusted, or measured by, position or just 'league average'? Ie. pitchers vs pitchers, 2B vs 2B etc.

I assume it's just ML player, not broken down by position, but just thought I'd clear that up too, thanks!

It can be adjusted. For example, if you get into BR's splits (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=owingmi01&year=2009&t=b), they can weight a player's OPS+ to his position or batting order.



Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
as P 4 10 10 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 .200 .200 .300 .500 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 .333 30 192
as PH 4 4 4 0 2 2 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 .500 .500 1.000 1.500 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.000 275 326

The "tOPS+" relates the split to the player's total OPS+. So, as a pitcher this year, Owings hasn't been as good as he usually is with the bat. On the other hand, he's been awesome as a pinch hitter. sOPS+ is what he did versus the league relative to that split. So, both as a pitcher and pinch hitter, he's doing well.

In really small sample sizes.

Reds1
05-05-2009, 02:46 PM
Small sample size, but seeing he is close to ave at both is probably pretty good considering he's your 5th starter and 9th hitter and occassional PH. Those 2007 numbers are wicked though.

Johnny Footstool
05-05-2009, 03:05 PM
Cool, thanks. So is his OPS+ right near average as a ML positional player or strictly as a NL pitcher? IOW, is OPS+ adjusted, or measured by, position or just 'league average'? Ie. pitchers vs pitchers, 2B vs 2B etc.

I assume it's just ML player, not broken down by position, but just thought I'd clear that up too, thanks!

OPS+ is not adjusted for position, so Owings as a hitter is only slightly below the average NL regular.

BCubb2003
05-05-2009, 04:24 PM
So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?

Chip R
05-05-2009, 04:36 PM
So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?


Regular size Owings or mini-Owings?

Joseph
05-05-2009, 05:33 PM
So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?

Only Coombs can pitch and bat at the same time.

Cyclone792
05-05-2009, 05:52 PM
Without venturing an opinion on that question, I will say that a pitcher who can hit is kooky fun.

You've definitely got that right. It's probably one of the more wild baseball situations that I like more than any others. The possibilities and ways that Owings can help the team are immense.

Owings might be the best hitting pitcher since Wes Ferrell.

tripleaaaron
05-06-2009, 01:41 PM
It looks like Owings as a pitcher and Owings as a hitter are fairly equal, so it could be a fairly good battle between himself, I bet the mind games would be sickening as well. Is there anyone out there that could quantify this, maybe a EPA+ in relation to other pitchers. As a major league average pitcher (a hypothetical 3-4 starter) in the 5 hole, he is bringing incredible value. If his bat were included in his pitching stats, where would that place him among other starters in overall value or win shares?

Cyclone792
05-06-2009, 01:54 PM
It looks like Owings as a pitcher and Owings as a hitter are fairly equal, so it could be a fairly good battle between himself, I bet the mind games would be sickening as well. Is there anyone out there that could quantify this, maybe a EPA+ in relation to other pitchers. As a major league average pitcher (a hypothetical 3-4 starter) in the 5 hole, he is bringing incredible value. If his bat were included in his pitching stats, where would that place him among other starters in overall value or win shares?

It largely depends on how many plate appearances he ultimately gets, but if he creates say ... 15 runs ... then that would be the rough equivalent of slicing nearly 15 runs from his earned run total. Pitchers typically create 0 or just a few runs each season. Arroyo created 5 last year for the Reds, but he actually had a very nice season offensively for a pitcher.

FWIW, there is a group of baseball historians out there that heavily support Wes Ferrell's case for election into the Hall of Fame. Ferrell was a very good pitcher, but his pitching record alone isn't Hall worthy (though he's better than a handful of pitchers who were mistakenly voted in). But Ferrell's supporters argue that once you factor in his offensive contributions that he was a Hall worthy overall player, and it's an argument that I'm kind of in agreement with.

RedlegJake
05-06-2009, 02:07 PM
I love Owings as the fifth starter. It's like having a DH every 5th game and only your team has it. The guy is so much better than the 5th spot dreck run out there the past few years and improving that giveaway every fifth day to a guy who gives you a chance with almost league average pitching and an advantage of a true hitter in the 9 hole. Plus, you're right - it's blast to watch the guy

kaldaniels
05-06-2009, 03:18 PM
I've asked this in a round-about way and haven't ever got an answer before...but what does Owing's bat do to this ERA. Is it worth .50?

Scrap Irony
05-06-2009, 03:23 PM
So far this season, it's worth more than that. (If you assume his PH role as well, anyway.) About .75 of a run. If he continues to do this the entire year, however, it may be even more valuable.

15fan
05-06-2009, 08:11 PM
So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?

Oooh. That's a mind bender.

Kind of like what would happen if Hector Carrasco (a walk waiting to happen) pitched to Reggie Sanders (a whiff waiting to happen). Moveable object vs. resistable force.

Here's another thing to ponder about Owings:

If he pitches an interleague game, does he still bat while the DH hits for someone else?

And along those lines...who was the last pitcher to bat for himself in an AL park?