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View Full Version : 2009 vs. 1999 - Early Parallels



Cyclone792
05-05-2009, 11:27 PM
Just a few observations ...

The 1999 Reds were called a sleeper team during the preceding offseason, though a great deal of the excitement was centered around the arrival of Greg Vaughn. The 2009 Reds were called a sleeper team during this offseason albeit with a different reasoning (pitching).

Neither team has blown the doors off the building out of the gate, though the 2009 Reds have a leg up with their 14-12 start. On May 5th, 1999, through 26 games, the 1999 Reds were only 11-15.

Joey Votto vs. Sean Casey: Votto is carrying the offensive load nearly by himself by hitting .378/.470/.571/1.041. Sean Casey similarly carried the offensive load early in 1999; Casey was hitting .351/.398/.564/.962 through 26 games. Casey would finish the month of May on a tear by hitting .415/.467/.793/1.259 from May 7th through May 31st.

Meanwhile, outside of the slugging first sackers, much of the rest of the Reds offense struggled early in each season. Vaughn and Larkin each had sub .700 OPS figures - Phillips and Encarnacion likewise have poor offensive numbers early in 2009.

The 1999 Reds had an extra outfielder in Jeffrey Hammonds who stepped up and produced big numbers in a part-time role, though it took far longer for Hammonds to heat up as he had done nothing by early May. The 2009 Reds have Laynce Nix begging to fill that void this season.

There are likely a few more, but those are off the top of my head.

Of course, the 1999 Reds ultimately lit up the scoreboard offensively, had a dominant bullpen throughout the season and were one of the greatest defensive fielding teams we've seen in the last 15 years. That team found its true identity in late May, and they destroyed the National League the following four months ... until the last weekend of the year in Milwaukee, at least.

Those 1999 Reds also received midseason help (Juan Guzman) to help their biggest weakness, which was starting pitching. Here's to hoping the 2009 Reds play well enough over the next two plus months to demand the current front office to acquire help (a big bat) to help their biggest weakness.

Cyclone792
05-05-2009, 11:40 PM
Interestingly, I just looked closer at the boxscore on May 5th, 1999 and realized that I attended that game.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN199905050.shtml

I remember sitting in the top row in the green seats directly behind the plate as Randy Johnson shut the Reds down with a complete game 5-1 victory. It was a typical Johnson start - eight strikeouts, zero walks and only four hits allowed.

Hard to believe that was already 10 years ago.

Mario-Rijo
05-06-2009, 03:09 AM
Let's just hope we don't trade away a future AS type of player for our '09 Guzman like back then, but I guess if it were just a closer I could live with it assuming it pays off.

redsfandan
05-06-2009, 06:18 AM
I remember being at a game in the '99 season and calling a walkoff hr by Vaughn. The people I was with were shocked. I don't remember if I told them that he had already done that a few times that year.:D

Hey Mario-Rijo, was that when we dealt BJ Ryan?

CarolinaRedleg
05-06-2009, 08:26 AM
Yep.


July 31, 1999, Cincinnati Reds traded B.J. Ryan and Jacobo Sequea to the Baltimore Orioles for Juan Guzman.

Cyclone792
05-06-2009, 08:36 AM
The Guzman deal ultimately cost quite a bit, but it was highly necessary at the time because the Reds rotation was a ticking time bomb and needed a big time boost. The Jason Bere experiment was a massive failure, Steve Avery couldn't throw strikes and Brett Tomko was hit-and-miss.

Hoosier Red
05-06-2009, 11:58 AM
As I remember the 1999 team had a freakishly good road record but couldn't win at home. I think I remember them wearing the road jerseys at home for a while because they were playing better in them.

Chip R
05-06-2009, 12:26 PM
I think I remember them wearing the road jerseys at home for a while because they were playing better in them.


I don't think they ever did that. What I think they did was to wear the black undershirts instead of the red ones at home.

CarolinaRedleg
05-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Didn't they also wear the black hats at home that year too?

Chip R
05-06-2009, 12:35 PM
Didn't they also wear the black hats at home that year too?


I think when they wore the black sleeves they did.

Cyclone792
05-06-2009, 02:09 PM
As I remember the 1999 team had a freakishly good road record but couldn't win at home.

Hal McCoy labeled the 1999 Reds as the Big Road Machine. They were 51-30 on the road, but only 45-37 at home.

Big Klu
05-06-2009, 08:48 PM
Didn't they also wear the black hats at home that year too?

Not to change the subject, but I think the Reds should ditch their current road caps (the reds caps with black bills). They are dated, and have a 90's feel to them. They should either wear the all-red caps all the time, or I would be OK with a gray cap with a red bill as part of the road uniform--reminiscent of the caps they wore in the late 50's and arly 60's.

15fan
05-06-2009, 09:24 PM
Let's just hope we don't trade away a future AS type of player for our '09 Guzman like back then, but I guess if it were just a closer I could live with it assuming it pays off.

No no no and no.

That was a great deal. A deal that absolutely had to be made. His numbers that year with the Reds were very good. Look 'em up. If Brett Tomko would have pulled his head out of his butt for just one game down the stretch, the Reds would've been in the NLCS with Guzman playing a major role. The Reds would've had Harnisch, Guzman and Neagle starting in a short series, and that was a trio that was pitching pretty well at the time.

Furthermore, when Guzman walked as a FA at the end of the year, it gave the Reds comp picks. The problem is that JimBo wasn't able to convert 5 of the top 100 picks into anything more than David Espinosa, Dustin Moseley, Dane Sardinha, Ryan Snare and Dave Gil.

Trading for a FA-to-be down the stretch is a good move most of the time. Bowden / DanO / Krivsky rarely had the cajones to make those kinds of moves. On the rare occasion that they did, the subsequent pick(s) didn't amount to squat.

Falls City Beer
05-06-2009, 09:27 PM
Let's hope the Reds can find replacements for this year's version of Bere (Arroyo) and Avery (Owings).

OnBaseMachine
05-06-2009, 09:28 PM
Let's hope the Reds can find replacements for this year's version of Bere (Arroyo) and Avery (Owings).

Bere threw eight shutout innings last week. For some reason people weren't ready to ship him out after that start.:confused:

Falls City Beer
05-06-2009, 09:31 PM
Arroyo doesn't have the stuff to bounce back from this degree of collapse. He was able to hoodwink some with his "return to form" after the team fell out of the race last year, but not me. Whatever caused the collapse that lasted three months last season wasn't going to be permanently gotten over. It signaled the end.

cincrazy
05-06-2009, 09:35 PM
Let's hope the Reds can find replacements for this year's version of Bere (Arroyo) and Avery (Owings).

Oh come on. Arroyo has a long history of stinking it up at least two or three times a year, and every time he does you claim he's finished. If Cueto goes out next start and allows 5 funs while walking 4, you'll say the same about him. This is what you get with Bronson. If they were smart they'd flip him after his next string of great starts for a bat (if there's a bat to be had for him, I'm not certain).

But the man has many productive years ahead of him. Schizophrenic years perhaps, but still productive.