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redsfan30
05-07-2009, 12:50 PM
Huge news from ESPN.

Manny has been suspended effective immediately for testing positive for performance enhansing drugs.

More to come.

HeatherC1212
05-07-2009, 12:51 PM
Whoa, didn't see that one coming. :eek:

CTA513
05-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Manny is an idiot

Degenerate39
05-07-2009, 12:53 PM
This came from left field I can't believe it

WMR
05-07-2009, 12:54 PM
Manny Being Manny

TRF
05-07-2009, 12:54 PM
well, that kills one of my fantasy teams.

Chip R
05-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Color me unsurprised.

dfs
05-07-2009, 12:57 PM
well, that kills one of my fantasy teams.
Not to mention the dodgers. The NL West became very interesting.

cincy09
05-07-2009, 12:58 PM
I wonder if other big names may follow?

UKFlounder
05-07-2009, 12:58 PM
Wow. You give someone a $45 million contract and this is what you get? Yikes.

jojo
05-07-2009, 01:00 PM
I guess we really have zero clue about anyone and shouldn't assume anything about anyone.

Homer Bailey
05-07-2009, 01:00 PM
Told myself I wouldn't be surprised if I found out Manny did steroids. However, I'm shocked that he actually failed a test. What an idiot.

OnBaseMachine
05-07-2009, 01:04 PM
Gammons says he didn't test positive for a steroid. According to Manny, it's from medication a doctor gave him for a medical issue.

Homer Bailey
05-07-2009, 01:06 PM
Gammons says he didn't test positive for a steroid. Manny says it's from medication a doctor gave him for a medical issue.

Where's you see that?

cincyinco
05-07-2009, 01:07 PM
Here comes the excuses... Shocked to open mlb.com and see this!

Chip R
05-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Gammons says he didn't test positive for a steroid. Manny says it's from medication a doctor gave him for a medical issue.


And my dog ate my homework.

OnBaseMachine
05-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Where's you see that?

On Sportscenter.

bucksfan2
05-07-2009, 01:09 PM
Gammons says he didn't test positive for a steroid. Manny says it's from medication a doctor gave him for a medical issue.

BS. Im sorry I don't buy this for a second. There is a list of banned substances that every major leaguer has. If he is stupid enough not to pass that along to his Dr. and not to check whatever the Dr. gave him with the list then 50 games is light.

This is just another one in the long list of great players who have disrespected the game by cheating. Manny now joins the group of potential HOF who have been linked, or proven guilty, to steroids. Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, Palmero, Sheffield, etc. all say hi.

CarolinaRedleg
05-07-2009, 01:09 PM
From the ESPN.com story:


Citing a source familiar with the matter, The Times reported Ramirez is expected to say the positive test results were a result of medication received from a doctor for a personal medical issue.

That sounds shady.

Col_ IN Reds fan
05-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Some day in the not so distant future,there will be more 500 home run hitters that are eligible, not in the HOF that are in.

WMR
05-07-2009, 01:10 PM
Bye bye Cooperstown?

rotnoid
05-07-2009, 01:10 PM
From espn.com


Ramirez's test result and suspension are expected to be announced Thursday, The Times said.

Citing a source familiar with the matter, The Times reported Ramirez is expected to say the positive test results were a result of medication received from a doctor for a personal medical issue.



I think I'd be switching doctors if mine didn't know that he was putting my job in jeopardy with a prescription.

cincrazy
05-07-2009, 01:11 PM
Ahhhh, here comes the Scott Boras led excuses. Nice to see.

bucksfan2
05-07-2009, 01:12 PM
Is the 50 game suspension for the first test positive or the second?

jojo
05-07-2009, 01:13 PM
Manny is still a HOFer.

CarolinaRedleg
05-07-2009, 01:13 PM
If anything, this will quiet FavreWatch 2009 for a couple of days...:D

Hap
05-07-2009, 01:14 PM
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/MannyRamirez.jpg http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/nelson-muntz.gif

bucksfan2
05-07-2009, 01:14 PM
Manny is still a HOFer.

Is Clemens a HOF? How about Bonds?

OnBaseMachine
05-07-2009, 01:14 PM
I hate to hear this. I like Manny, he's one of the greatest hitters I have ever seen. He's my brothers favorite player of all-time. I was shocked when I heard it.

jojo
05-07-2009, 01:15 PM
Is Clemens a HOF? How about Bonds?

First ballot for both of them IMHO.

OnBaseMachine
05-07-2009, 01:15 PM
Manny is still a HOFer.

Yep.

As is Bonds and Clemens.

They're guilty, but they were HOF'ers before they started doing steroids.

cincrazy
05-07-2009, 01:15 PM
They have to let them all in. They can't ignore an entire era, it's just not realistic. Make a Roids Wing for all I care, but they have to do something. Manny isn't the first big name, and I guarantee he won't be the last.

WMR
05-07-2009, 01:16 PM
Manny is still a HOFer.

Nope.

Neither is Clemens, Bonds, or Palmeiro.

bucksfan2
05-07-2009, 01:17 PM
First ballot for both of them IMHO.

Ok. Just wanted to know your stance on this subject.

RichRed
05-07-2009, 01:18 PM
May Manny's suspension and the Reds' West Coast trip coincide. We need all the breaks we can get.

jojo
05-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Nope.

Neither is Clemens, Bonds, or Palmeiro.

Then close the doors of the place.

TRF
05-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Nope.

Neither is Clemens, Bonds, or Palmeiro.


Better kick out Cobb and Ruth then.

Mantle too.

Pretty much every player from the 70's.

cincrazy
05-07-2009, 01:19 PM
Then close the doors of the place.

My line of thinking exactly.

flyer85
05-07-2009, 01:20 PM
is anyone clean?

Chip R
05-07-2009, 01:20 PM
There's got to be some people in BOS chortling about this right now.

This doesn't help the Reds as he should be activated by the time the Reds go out there and play them. L.A. will play the Cubs 4 times at the end of the month and won't play StL till after Manny gets back.

Col_ IN Reds fan
05-07-2009, 01:21 PM
Yep.

As is Bonds and Clemens.

They're guilty, but they were HOF'ers before they started doing steroids.

When exactly did thay start taking steroids? Did not know there was a record of this.

No way these guys get into the HOF.

CarolinaRedleg
05-07-2009, 01:22 PM
May Manny's suspension and the Reds' West Coast trip coincide. We need all the breaks we can get.

From a rough count of games and series, his suspension is set to lapse about 5 or 6 series before the Reds' dreaded trip to LA.

remdog
05-07-2009, 01:23 PM
"Personal problems"? Is Viagra on the banned substance list?

Rem

M2
05-07-2009, 01:24 PM
That sounds shady.

Only because it is.

CarolinaRedleg
05-07-2009, 01:24 PM
Is Viagra on the banned substance list?

Rem

Some could say it's definitely a PED.

Dan
05-07-2009, 01:28 PM
"Personal problems"? Is Viagra on the banned substance list?

Rem

Maybe we should ask Rafeal Palmiero :thumbup:

CarolinaRedleg
05-07-2009, 01:29 PM
Manny speaks:


"Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me," Ramirez said. "Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now.

"I do want to say one other thing; I've taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons. I want to apologize to [Dodgers owner Frank] McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, [manager Joe] Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I'm sorry about this whole situation."

flyer85
05-07-2009, 01:30 PM
I hate to hear this. I like Manny, he's one of the greatest hitters I have ever seen. He's my brothers favorite player of all-time. I was shocked when I heard it.
I am not shocked by anything in baseball

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 01:33 PM
Gammons says he didn't test positive for a steroid. According to Manny, it's from medication a doctor gave him for a medical issue.

Nearly all the illegal PED's can be prescribed by a doctor "for medical purposes." Most PED users get their stuff from doctors who bend the rules.

If this is a case where Manny truly needed it for his health, he could have easily told MLB, and they would have granted him an exception.

The only way I would have sympathy for him, is if what happened to J.C. Romero, happened to Manny. Romero told MLBPA that he wanted to take a supplement he found at GNC, and asked if he could take it. They said he could, but once he tested positive, they said they were wrong in advising him. MLB didn't care about that, and suspended him anyway.

KoryMac5
05-07-2009, 01:33 PM
I would like to see what substance he tested positive for before passing judgement on Manny.

flyer85
05-07-2009, 01:34 PM
a lot of the banned non-PEDs are drugs that can be masking agents for PEDs

Blimpie
05-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Is the 50 game suspension for the first test positive or the second?First positive test is 50 games. Second test gets you 100 games off. Third strike and you go can sign autographs with Pete Rose across the street from Cooperstown.

westofyou
05-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Well Samson said, Delilah cut off my hair.
You can shave my head, clean as my hand
And my strength will become as natural as any old man.

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/08/12/1218553751_0373.jpg

westofyou
05-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Third strike and you go can sign autographs with Pete Rose across the street from Cooperstown.

And you have to flip for to see who's picking up the tab.

WVRed
05-07-2009, 01:39 PM
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/MannyRamirez.jpg http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/nelson-muntz.gif

Couldn't have put it better myself.

sonny
05-07-2009, 01:40 PM
Well Samson said, Delilah cut off my hair.
You can shave my head, clean as my hand
And my strength will become as natural as any old man.

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/08/12/1218553751_0373.jpg

Eloquent as always, WOY.

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 01:45 PM
When exactly did thay start taking steroids? Did not know there was a record of this.

No way these guys get into the HOF.

Bonds started practically by his own admission, in 2000. That was right before he hit 73 HR's. Up until then he had hit 494 HR, 1405 RBI, 471 SB, and .412 .567 .979 for his career. He also was a two time MVP. Those are HOF #'s.

Clemens started according to reports in 1997. Up until then he had a 191-111 W/L, 3.06 ERA, 2590 K's, two CY, one ROY and one MVP. Those are very close to HOF numbers, and he was only 33, so he probably would have easily had 250 wins and 3000 K's, if he had played a few more years without PED's.

You can argue that taking them automatically eliminates them from the HOF, but if you don't think that is the case, then it's hard to keep them out based on what they did when they were clean.

SirFelixCat
05-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Wow.

vic715
05-07-2009, 01:55 PM
Bonds started practically by his own admission, in 2000. That was right before he hit 73 HR's. Up until then he had hit 494 HR, 1405 RBI, 471 SB, and .412 .567 .979 for his career. He also was a two time MVP. Those are HOF #'s.

Clemens started according to reports in 1997. Up until then he had a 191-111 W/L, 3.06 ERA, 2590 K's, two CY, one ROY and one MVP. Those are very close to HOF numbers, and he was only 33, so he probably would have easily had 250 wins and 3000 K's, if he had played a few more years without PED's.

You can argue that taking them automatically eliminates them from the HOF, but if you don't think that is the case, then it's hard to keep them out based on what they did when they were clean.

They probably will be voted in and maybe they probably deserve it. My argument is if these roiders are cheating during there playing days then whats to be said about keeping Pete Rose out of the HOF when he committed his crime after his playing days. If Bonds and Clemens are deemed elgible to be elected then so should Rose.

RedsBaron
05-07-2009, 01:55 PM
Well Samson said, Delilah cut off my hair.
You can shave my head, clean as my hand
And my strength will become as natural as any old man.

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2008/08/12/1218553751_0373.jpg

That sound is on the soundtrack to "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles." I'm pretty sure that Cameron doesn't do steroids. ;)
I don't know what I would do with the ever expanding group of players who on the surface have HOF worthy numbers but have also either failed drug tests or for whom there is strong circumstantial evidence of steroid use. If I was a voter for the HOF I would not vote to induct on the first ballot any player whom I strongly believed had juiced, as just my own small protest against the steroids era. I would still have another 14 chances to vote for that player in the following years. I just would not give the juicers the extra honor of going in on the first ballot.

TeamCasey
05-07-2009, 01:58 PM
Does anyone know if the suspension starts immediately?

remdog
05-07-2009, 02:00 PM
Does anyone know if the suspension starts immediately?


It starts with tonight's game.

Rem

remdog
05-07-2009, 02:01 PM
BTW, it's scheduled to end (barring rainouts, etc.) July 3rd.

What a way to welcome Manny back. Let's hold a National Holiday! :p:

Rem

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 02:02 PM
I would like to see what substance he tested positive for before passing judgement on Manny.

This really is the key. There are many drugs on the banned list that really don't enhance your performance all that much, but just are ones that are used with Steroids, or to mask them as you said, or just on there as an over-reaction by the Commissioner's office to make up for their years of neglect on this issue.

If it is one of those, he should be suspended because rules are rules, but it wouldn't change my opinion of him as the best hitter of his generation.

oneupper
05-07-2009, 02:03 PM
Color me unsurprised.

Ditto.

Strikes Out Looking
05-07-2009, 02:06 PM
In Manny's defense, his "excuse" could be true. Mike Cameron was suspended 50 games at the start of last season for using a banned substance that he said was, I believe, from an allergy medicine. He said he had the same health problems, but a drug he used in 2007 had something on the banned list.

jojo
05-07-2009, 02:11 PM
The Dodgers are paying Manny $20M+ and they can't afford to contract with a pharmacist to vet player prescriptions? Check that, Manny is getting paid $20M+ and he can't afford to pay to have prescriptions checked...say 5 or 6 times over?

wolfboy
05-07-2009, 02:15 PM
Bonds started practically by his own admission, in 2000. That was right before he hit 73 HR's. Up until then he had hit 494 HR, 1405 RBI, 471 SB, and .412 .567 .979 for his career. He also was a two time MVP. Those are HOF #'s.

Clemens started according to reports in 1997. Up until then he had a 191-111 W/L, 3.06 ERA, 2590 K's, two CY, one ROY and one MVP. Those are very close to HOF numbers, and he was only 33, so he probably would have easily had 250 wins and 3000 K's, if he had played a few more years without PED's.

You can argue that taking them automatically eliminates them from the HOF, but if you don't think that is the case, then it's hard to keep them out based on what they did when they were clean.

It's a legitimate argument. On the other hand, these guys also said they hadn't taken any PEDs at other points in time. Honestly, who knows when they started and if or when they ever stopped.

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 02:17 PM
The Dodgers are paying Manny $20M+ and they can't afford to contract with a pharmacist to vet player prescriptions? Check that, Manny is getting paid $20M+ and he can't afford to pay to have prescriptions checked...say 5 or 6 times over?

For the Dodgers, there is no excuse, but I am never surprised at how careless Manny is with what he says and does. He seems to think that he can either talk his way out of anything, or just deal with the consequences. This is a guy who decided to call someone on his cell phone in the middle of a game, while he was on the field.

UKFlounder
05-07-2009, 02:21 PM
If he went to the doctor, got the prescription and took the medicine without ever telling the Dodgers, they have no accountability. They can't be with a player 24/7 and judge every decision they make.

If, however, they knew he had a condition and needed medicine, they probably could have done more to help prevent this.


For the Dodgers, there is no excuse, .

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 02:23 PM
It's a legitimate argument. On the other hand, these guys also said they hadn't taken any PEDs at other points in time. Honestly, who knows when they started and if or when they ever stopped.

No one except those involved will ever know, but with Bonds and Clemens, their numbers give us a big clue. Bonds went from around 30-40 HR's a season to 73 in one year, when he was in his late 30's.

Clemens went from 10-13 with a 3.63 ERA to 21-7 with a 2.05 ERA in one year, at age 33 when most pitchers start to decline.

Maybe you can argue that they used until then, and then just started to use even more, but clearly they did something at those points in their careers to boost performance.

traderumor
05-07-2009, 02:24 PM
The excuse is little more than "I didn't inhale." Careless and unnecessary, regardless of "accidental" or for performance enhancement.

westofyou
05-07-2009, 02:27 PM
Was Manny even a Dodger when he took the "substance" he was a FA all winter.

bucksfan2
05-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Was Manny even a Dodger when he took the "substance" he was a FA all winter.

Contractually speaking no, but throughout the baseball world it was a foregone conclusion.

When do we start taking Canseco at his word? He has been spot on so far.

When does Scott Boras start taking some heat? In the span of a couple months his two highest profile clients got busted for cheating.

BoydsOfSummer
05-07-2009, 02:43 PM
BTW, it's scheduled to end (barring rainouts, etc.) July 3rd.

What a way to welcome Manny back. Let's hold a National Holiday! :p:

Rem


That's my birthday. And thank you for recognizing it as the National Holiday that it should be, Remdog. You are a great American.:thumbup:

westofyou
05-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Contractually speaking no, but throughout the baseball world it was a foregone conclusion.


Still that doesn't connect them to him contractually and thus tehy can't guide his doctors/meds.

They just rolled a snake eyes.

Heavens.... what will this do to his Strat card??

cumberlandreds
05-07-2009, 02:48 PM
I'm only half kidding when I say this: It wouldn't surprise me if Manny orchestrated all of this so he could take 50 days off in the middle of the season. He is known for taking off some time off nearly every season for an "injury".

I'm not surprised at all. In fact I'm not surprised by anyone who would get busted. I think most players have dabbled in steriods or something of the like. Of course we don't know for sure what it is. He could have been hanging out with Ricky Williams and smoked a little weed with him. Who knows? We probably never will know for sure.

rotnoid
05-07-2009, 02:54 PM
I'm only half kidding when I say this: It wouldn't surprise me if Manny orchestrated all of this so he could take 50 days off in the middle of the season. He is known for taking off some time off nearly every season for an "injury".

I was getting ready to post nearly the same thought. For the Dodgers, it will be like making a big trade in early July. And... he'll probably be pretty fresh after not playing every day for 7 weeks.

cumberlandreds
05-07-2009, 02:56 PM
I was getting ready to post nearly the same thought. For the Dodgers, it will be like making a big trade in early July. And... he'll probably be pretty fresh after not playing every day for 7 weeks.

Exactly. I really wouldn't put it past him for doing that.

Chip R
05-07-2009, 02:57 PM
I'm only half kidding when I say this: It wouldn't surprise me if Manny orchestrated all of this so he could take 50 days off in the middle of the season. He is known for taking off some time off nearly every season for an "injury".


It's certainly not inconceivable. But he is going to lose salary and be one positiive test away for going bye-bye for 100 games.


I'm not surprised at all. In fact I'm not surprised by anyone who would get busted. I think most players have dabbled in steriods or something of the like. Of course we don't know for sure what it is. He could have been hanging out with Ricky Williams and smoked a little weed with him. Who knows? We probably never will know for sure.


I was more surprised when A-Rod juiced than I am that Manny juiced. Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if Sean Cqasey admitted he juiced.

15fan
05-07-2009, 03:02 PM
From the ESPN.com story:

Citing a source familiar with the matter, The Times reported Ramirez is expected to say the positive test results were a result of medication received from a doctor for a personal medical issue.

That sounds shady.

Any chance it's :pimp: ?

Based on what some folks have told me, you can tell certain docs in the state in which Manny currently works that you need a prescription and they will in fact prescribe something that is legal in the state but illegal according to the feds.

wolfboy
05-07-2009, 03:03 PM
No one except those involved will ever know, but with Bonds and Clemens, their numbers give us a big clue. Bonds went from around 30-40 HR's a season to 73 in one year, when he was in his late 30's.

Clemens went from 10-13 with a 3.63 ERA to 21-7 with a 2.05 ERA in one year, at age 33 when most pitchers start to decline.

Maybe you can argue that they used until then, and then just started to use even more, but clearly they did something at those points in their careers to boost performance.

And that's the counter argument I was getting at. The could have been using for years before we suspect they were. We really don't know.

remdog
05-07-2009, 03:04 PM
That's my birthday. And thank you for recognizing it as the National Holiday that it should be, Remdog. You are a great American.:thumbup:

Happy Birthday in advance. I'll see if I can Manny to phone you with congratulations. He's got time in the OF apparently---all he needs is your number. :p:

Rem

durl
05-07-2009, 03:09 PM
The Dodgers are paying Manny $20M+ and they can't afford to contract with a pharmacist to vet player prescriptions? Check that, Manny is getting paid $20M+ and he can't afford to pay to have prescriptions checked...say 5 or 6 times over?

That's along the lines with what I'm thinking.

I don't know how team physicians work within the organization but I would think that they still have to honor doctor/patient confidentiality. It appears that Manny wanted to keep something secret so he went to "a physician" as opposed to "MY physician" or "the TEAM doctor" to get treatment.

I just don't see how you DON'T verify every prescription you put in your body with someone with tremendous knowledge of MLB drug laws and how it may affect drug tests. We've seen this happen too many times before to claim ignorance. I can't help but think this comes down to just plain not thinking or an obvious attempt to take a banned substance.

_Sir_Charles_
05-07-2009, 03:25 PM
ESPN says it's a Fertility drug.


However, two sources told ESPN's T.J. Quinn and Mark Fainaru-Wada that the drug used by Ramirez is hCG -- human chorionic gonadotropin. HCG is a women's fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body's natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle. It is similar to Clomid, the drug Bonds, Giambi and others used as clients of BALCO.

Vada Pinson Fan
05-07-2009, 03:26 PM
well, that kills one of my fantasy teams.

Same here TRF. Manny Ramirez. Suspended 50 games for alledgedly taking performance enhancement drugs. All the talent in baseball, any man could hope to have, and what does he do? No different than Bonds, ARod, Giambi, Sosa, McGwire and all the others listed in the Mitchell report. Well, if true, and it looks like it is, thanks alot Manny. Thanks alot.

You came here as a poor Latin(o) ballplayer and now you have made your millions by cheating the game, the Dodgers Front Office & coaches, teammates, your opponents and those who admire you so much: the fans and now you know- you have cheated yourself Manny hopefully from the Hall of Fame.

bucksfan2
05-07-2009, 03:28 PM
ESPN says it's a Fertility drug.

I would hope Manny would be smart enough to know he couldn't get pregnant!

CarolinaRedleg
05-07-2009, 03:29 PM
This story gets crazier at every turn...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Source: Ramirez’s substance a sexual enhancer
By Tim Brown and Steve Henson 1 hour, 37 minutes ago
Buzz up!
Print
LOS ANGELES – A source close to Manny Ramirez(notes) said Thursday that the illegal substance for which the Los Angeles Dodgers slugger tested positive was not “an agent customarily used for performance enhancing.”

At least not on the baseball diamond. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the substance is supposed to boost sex drive. It is not Viagra, but a substance that treats the cause rather providing a temporary boost in sexual performance, the source said.

Ramirez tested positive for the substance during spring training, then was administered a second test more recently, and it also was positive. Major League Baseball notified Ramirez of the second positive test after Wednesday night’s Dodgers victory over the Washington Nationals. Ramirez admitted to having taken the substance and declined to appeal. His 50-game suspension begins today.

“The substance is not a steroid and it is not human-growth hormone,” the source said.

Ramirez, the source said, acquired the substance through a prescription from a doctor in Miami for his medical condition. The source intimated that Ramirez might bring legal action against the physician.

Ramirez released the following statement Thursday morning: “Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was okay to give me. Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now. I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons.

The Dodgers, who have won a Major League record 13 consecutive home games to start the season, will be without Ramirez until July 3. Outfielder Xavier Paul was promoted from triple-A to take Ramirez’s place on the roster. The suspension will cost Ramirez close to $8 million in lost wages.

Chip R
05-07-2009, 03:34 PM
This story gets crazier at every turn...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-ramirezsuspension050709&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


From the ESPN story:

A source with intimate knowledge of steroids told ESPN that a male athlete usually uses HCG after a cycle of steroids because steroids often shut down the testosterone-making ability of the testicles. HCG restores their capacity to make testosterone. The source said that some males may use HCG in lieu of steroids also. HCG by itself can provide a substantial boost in the bodies own testosterone, and this may provide some performance-enhancement benefits.

traderumor
05-07-2009, 03:37 PM
Stage 1-Denial and deflect blame(It was a drug taken for something else, I'm gonna sue that doctor! Where have I heard that before? Oh yea, most every time someone fails a drug test)
Stage 2-Admit and apologize (of course, some time has to pass so we forget he lied a few months ago)
Stage 3-Awwww, that's OK, Manny, we understand (just go hit some more homeruns, and for goodness sake, if you're gonna do something at least be smart enough to not get caught)

:D

cumberlandreds
05-07-2009, 03:51 PM
well, that kills one of my fantasy teams.

This is the first year in about four or five years I didn't have him on my team(s). Boy am I glad now I didn't.

oneupper
05-07-2009, 04:02 PM
Pujols should be next.

edabbs44
05-07-2009, 04:06 PM
Pujols should be next.

Wouldn't be shocked, especially since he was semi-linked in the past.

Papi as well.

KronoRed
05-07-2009, 04:09 PM
is anyone clean?

I don't think so, everyone is dirty in baseball and all pro sports to a certain degree.

Jpup
05-07-2009, 05:06 PM
I now believe that Major League Baseball is really trying to catch the cheaters. When the biggest star in the game gets suspended, it certainly shows them in a better light, finally.

dfs
05-07-2009, 05:22 PM
is anyone clean?
That Junior fellow comes to mind.

oneupper
05-07-2009, 05:24 PM
If they ran blood tests, they'd catch more, particularly the HGH users.

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 05:41 PM
That Junior fellow comes to mind.

He's looking better and better.

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 05:56 PM
From the ESPN story:

A source with intimate knowledge of steroids told ESPN that a male athlete usually uses HCG after a cycle of steroids because steroids often shut down the testosterone-making ability of the testicles. HCG restores their capacity to make testosterone. The source said that some males may use HCG in lieu of steroids also. HCG by itself can provide a substantial boost in the bodies own testosterone, and this may provide some performance-enhancement benefits.

My brother's a doctor, and lives in Boston, so we had plenty to talk about today.

He said that he personally could think of no reason why a 36 year old professional athlete would be taking HCG, other than performance enhancement. He is a GP, so he deals with fertility on a regular basis, and knows this drug well.

He said it is for women trying to get pregnant, teenage boys who hit puberty late, and for very old men with ED problems. He knows of no other medical use for this drug. Still he added that it is possible that there is something that he does not know of, but if there is something, it is not well accepted in the medical community.

Just reporting what he told me.

Razor Shines
05-07-2009, 06:00 PM
And that's the counter argument I was getting at. The could have been using for years before we suspect they were. We really don't know.

I agree. I don't like this "they were HOFers before they used steroids" argument. Because then you get into this game of the player saying "Ok, I admit that I was lying about that time (only because you caught me) but I wasn't lying about that time."

Either you let the juicers in because you can't ever know who did and who did not juice and other players from the past used other kinds of PEDs and still got in. Or you say anyone who tested positive for steroids doesn't get in.

GAC
05-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Gee! I don't know which is worse getting out to the public..... that I'm using a performace-enhancer or that I can't get it up. :p:

RFS62
05-07-2009, 09:22 PM
Gee! I don't know which is worse getting out to the public..... that I'm using a performace-enhancer or that I can't get it up. :p:



I was thinking the same thing. How sad is it when your best option is telling the world your new nickname is "Limpy".

Roy Tucker
05-07-2009, 09:33 PM
I was thinking the same thing. How sad is it when your best option is telling the world your new nickname is "Limpy".

http://www.oddjack.com/PalmeiroVIAGRA.jpg

jojo
05-07-2009, 09:33 PM
I could seriously see this as having everything to do with keeping up with Wilt Chamberlain and having nothing to do with baseball (or an ability to perform normally in a manly sense). In other words, so many women and so little time.

GAC
05-07-2009, 09:33 PM
unManly Rameriz :D

fisch11
05-07-2009, 09:40 PM
I actually feel bad for the Dodgers front office. They had to go through all kinds of grief this offseason to get Manny signed and this is what they got in return. But Manny is a headache and they knew that so maybe I don't feel so bad for them.

cincrazy
05-07-2009, 10:39 PM
Ya know, this years Reds remind me of last years Dodgers. A team that is one BIG bat away from being a .500 team give or take a few games, or a very dangerous team. Too bad there isn't a Manny out there for us this year...

Cyclone792
05-07-2009, 11:21 PM
In a wild, roundabout kind of way, this is kind of bad for the Reds.

With Manny, and at least early on, it looked like the Dodgers were poised to run away with the NL West while mowing down most of the National League. Manny's bat was certainly going to contribute to that, and the Dodgers could help out the Reds by beating other NL teams (esp. NL Central teams).

But now Manny's gone until around Independence Day, and unfortunately the Reds won't be able to take advantage of his absence because we do not play the Dodgers until mid to late July. Of course, some other teams will be able to take advantage of Manny's absence, including the Cubs who host the Dodgers for FOUR games in late May. The Dodgers do have a pile of interleague games against AL teams, but they'll also have games against other NL opponents:

3 games vs. Giants
7 games vs. Phillies
3 games vs. Mets
3 games vs. Marlins
6 games vs. Rockies
3 games vs. Diamondbacks
2 games vs. Padres

Let's say we play well enough to compete for the wildcard down the stretch and the Dodgers blow out the NL West. If that's the case, it'd be nice for the Dodgers to blow out all the teams on that schedule above. But without Manny, they'll likely lose a few games they would have otherwise won had his bat been in their lineup.

TheNext44
05-07-2009, 11:47 PM
I could seriously see this as having everything to do with keeping up with Wilt Chamberlain and having nothing to do with baseball (or an ability to perform normally in a manly sense). In other words, so many women and so little time.

I hate that problem too. It really is a burden sometimes. :cool:

redsfandan
05-08-2009, 12:59 AM
The BoSox, and their fans, have to enjoy this. They don't have to deal with Manny being Manny anymore. They don't have to deal with losing a very important offensive player for seven weeks because of off field stuff that should never have happenned. Instead they get to watch Jason Bay play for them everyday without worrying about having to each for the excedrin. Jason Bay who they can count on for better defense in leftfield, who now has a 1.129 OPS, and is on pace for a 40/20 season with 140 runs and 160 rbi. Making that switch wasn't cheap for Boston but I bet they're happy with the results.

On a related note the Dodgers have just signed up Cialis to be a sponsor for the stadium fans section known as MannyWood.

jojo
05-08-2009, 08:42 AM
The BoSox, and their fans, have to enjoy this. They don't have to deal with Manny being Manny anymore. They don't have to deal with losing a very important offensive player for seven weeks because of off field stuff that should never have happenned. Instead they get to watch Jason Bay play for them everyday without worrying about having to each for the excedrin. Jason Bay who they can count on for better defense in leftfield, who now has a 1.129 OPS, and is on pace for a 40/20 season with 140 runs and 160 rbi. Making that switch wasn't cheap for Boston but I bet they're happy with the results.

On a related note the Dodgers have just signed up Cialis to be a sponsor for the stadium fans section known as MannyWood.

That would kind of be like Giants fans reveling in Bonds getting suspended wouldn't it?

redsfandan
05-08-2009, 09:45 AM
I don't think so. I'm sure there are some BoSox fans that miss his bat kinda like how a certain ex-Red is missed by some of us. But I bet Bonds is just a little more beloved in San Francisco than Manny is in Boston. Mannys antics got him out of Boston but Bonds will always be a Giant to their fans.

Chip R
05-08-2009, 10:13 AM
I started thinking about this and I came to the conclusion that since Manny was taking this stuff that is supposed to replace testosterone, he is/was more than likely taking something that depleted his natural testosterone or he has a natural testosterone deficiency. I'm inclined to believe the former. If that's the case, he's either taking some excellent masking agents or the stuff he's taking isn't showing up on his drug tests. And I would guess he's not the only one.

bucksfan2
05-08-2009, 10:35 AM
I was listening to Peter Gammons on the radio this morning on my way to work. He has mentioned how the Union was vehemently against drug testing dating back to the late 90's and early 2000's. For the life of me I just can't understand how an organization or Union can knowingly protect its members, who are breaking the law, in court. I know it is highly improbable but Donald Fehr and the players rep should have charges brought against them because they were protecting law breaking citizens.

Its a shame that the Union, along with gutless Selig, have created a cloud of suspicion that will continue to hang over MLB for years to come.

Chip R
05-08-2009, 10:58 AM
I was listening to Peter Gammons on the radio this morning on my way to work. He has mentioned how the Union was vehemently against drug testing dating back to the late 90's and early 2000's. For the life of me I just can't understand how an organization or Union can knowingly protect its members, who are breaking the law, in court. I know it is highly improbable but Donald Fehr and the players rep should have charges brought against them because they were protecting law breaking citizens.

Its a shame that the Union, along with gutless Selig, have created a cloud of suspicion that will continue to hang over MLB for years to come.


What good does the drug testing do if it can only detect stuff guys take to replace their testosterone level and not the stuff that diminishes it in the first place?

blumj
05-08-2009, 11:42 AM
I don't think so. I'm sure there are some BoSox fans that miss his bat kinda like how a certain ex-Red is missed by some of us. But I bet Bonds is just a little more beloved in San Francisco than Manny is in Boston. Mannys antics got him out of Boston but Bonds will always be a Giant to their fans.
Yeah, it's not the same. Manny's been public enemy #1 in Boston since last summer.

blumj
05-08-2009, 12:19 PM
What good does the drug testing do if it can only detect stuff guys take to replace their testosterone level and not the stuff that diminishes it in the first place?


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907


However, testing by Major League Baseball showed that Ramirez had testosterone in his body that was not natural and came from an artificial source, two people with knowledge of the case told ESPN's Mark Fainaru-Wada and T.J. Quinn. The sources said that in addition to the artificial testosterone, Ramirez was identified as using the female fertility drug human chorionic gonadotropin, or hCG.

The sources said Ramirez was suspended for using hCG because baseball had documentation to prove his use of the drug. A Major League Baseball source said Ramirez's representatives indicated they would fight a suspension for using artificial testosterone.

Roy Tucker
05-08-2009, 01:38 PM
Better living through chemistry.

Reminds me of when I did DoD weapons work. Countermeasures and counter-countermeasures ad infinitum.

Its an ever-moving target. Athletes have more money and more motivation so they'll stay ahead.

westofyou
05-08-2009, 02:29 PM
http://38pitches.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/curt-schilling/general/thank-you-jason-bay/

Thank you Jason Bay 05.08.09 at 9:22 am ET
By Curt
Schilling

“Innocent until proven guilty”……..

Are we at the point now where that has morphed into, “I hope he didn’t,” or, “I’m sure he did,” and both sentiments carry as much validity and weight as the initial belief? I’d sure as heck love to think not, but what possible defense could I offer up that would carry an ounce of weight?

Oh and before going any further, please spare me the “That taints your two World Series with the Sox!!!” emails. A larger load of crap I have yet to hear.

Because if you honestly think that in the last 10 years one team for even one season had NO PLAYERS using Steroids or HGH you’re kidding yourself. As horrifying and pathetic as it sounds, players cheated their way to a level playing field of a different sort. Please save the, “Oh but this guy only did it for one year,” and, “No one knows how long he was doing it.” Save that.

The only thing sadder than the continued “revelations” of new names and new drugs are the excuses following them. Female Estrogen? I didn’t know what I was taking? I had no idea it was steroids? Every one makes me appreciate Pettitte, Segui and the men that made their peace and moved on even more.

Do you honestly for one second think ANY player, ANY professional athlete who has been caught up in this allowed a cream to be rubbed, a needle to be stuck, or a pill to be taken and wasn’t aware that the substance was or was not a steroid? Really? I do believe one guy. I think J.C. Romero did buy an over-the-counter substance that contained something that got him in trouble. I could be completely hoodwinked but as far as I know he’s the only guy that’s actually done something to legally rectify the situation and clear his name.

I’ve never taken steroids, I’ve never taken HGH, and I am not saying that to clear my name or make a statement, I’m saying that because even though I did not, I’ve never drank a protein shake from my strength coach, I’ve never taken medication from a doctor or the team, I’ve never gotten an injection from a team doctor or otherwise that I didn’t ask and wasn’t told exactly what it was. I’m far from svelte or ripped, and never have been. I was never a fitness freak or gym rat — those are the guys that measured every milligram, count every tablet in their regimen. Yet somehow we’re hearing these same people talk about being struck momentarily stupid when West African bullfrog semen is found in their blood. “What? How’d that get there????” Their routines, from reps to nutrition are as mapped out as scouting reports. They eat a certain way, train a certain way, and they play a certain way. There is no ‘black hole’ or ‘hidden formula’ happening in these instances. So you get up at 5am? You eat at 6am? Thirty minutes of cardio, upper body, lower on alternate days, whirlpool for x minutes, maintain x calories of protein and carb intake? You do all that, and at some point you let someone stick a needle in your ass, or throw a ‘protein shake’ or rub a ‘crème’ on you, and for that 30 seconds to 5 minutes you have absolutely no thought, care or concern about the product? A step recognized as vital to strength gain, or recovery, a step to setup the acceleration of your recovery or magnification of gains from your hours of work and you just go dumb?

I heard the news about Manny and was asked for my response. “Not surprised” was all I could really muster. I got emails remarking “how does it feel to be right” or “that’s gotta feel good, huh?”

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Who wishes that on people? Why? I have no respect for the guy for a laundry list of reasons that have to do with actually playing the game and being a teammate, but further ruining the image of the game is certainly not what I’d call anything close to consolation. What goes around comes around for everyone.

More kids are let down today, more parents turn from athletes as their kids’ role models (which is NOT a bad thing) every time these stories hit the news. The sad part is you know somewhere there is someone in the media who’s made it their life’s mission to get those 103 other names on “The List,” and that’s going to find it’s way out. The only reason I’ll be relieved that it does will be that I’ll stop receiving “Your name is on that list, isn’t it?” emails.

For the past 19 years or so I’ve had suspicions, some stronger than others, but to sit here today and say I played on even one team that was totally clean would be denying reality I think. I’ve never personally seen a player inject, ingest, swallow HGH, or steroids but like every other player I played with that had his eyes open I saw the huge weight gains in one winter, I saw the hat size increase, I saw the acne in places a camel would be embarrassed to have it. I watched the player hit 20 more homers in one year than they ever had, then revert back, I saw the pitcher throwing 87-90 come to spring training throwing 95-97, I saw all of that. None of those are ‘no brainers’ — none — but they were hints, and when you get enough hints you can see the answer clearly if you are looking.

I played pretty much my entire career in the Steroid Era.

There, I said it. Not rocket science, not an earth shattering revelation, just an enormously disappointing recognition of the label that will accompany the era in which I was allowed to play this game.

I did so never taking Steroids, HGH, cow urine, horse feces, or West African bullfrog semen, and for that yeah, I am proud. Proud of something that really doesn’t deserve praise, does it? Not committing a crime is something to get lauded and applauded for? Are we really that bad off as a society that we’re looking for the ‘few, the proud,’ the non-felons?

The ONLY saving grace today was that I was mentally a million miles away from all this. I had the honor of visiting with the front line officers of the 4th Infantry Division in Colorado Springs, Colorado. These incredible men and women are being deployed to Afghanistan in the coming weeks. A real dose of ‘hero’ and ‘courage’ and ‘honor’ to quell any ills from this crap.

So after all the BS, I was allowed to say thanks to true Heroes, true Warriors, true Americans, and it felt pretty damn good.

So stop making athletes your icons, they’re supremely gifted, extraordinarily talented human beings, period. After that they’re no different than you, not one bit. They endure the same hardships at home, divorce, drugs, domestic violence, DUI, and every other thing you can read about on page A1 of any newspaper. Don’t make the mistake of thinking the size of the paycheck is relevant to the core of the man. Don’t place more responsibility on them, or accountability, because life doesn’t work that way.

Relish in the Halladays, Rolens, Sabathias, Lowells, Counsells, Variteks, Garnetts, Jameses, Bruschis, Vrabels, the Jason Bays of the world. Relish in men of supreme character and tireless work ethic who respect the game and their teammates and suit up every day to leave it all on the field. If 100 more names come out I can still give you my word there are a lot more great men and phenomenal people in the game than not….

Then go home and raise your own damn kids with your own set of values, integrity and morals. Be accountable to them and responsible for them and stop blaming video games or the 25-year-old kid from the Dominican who can hit a baseball 455 feet but you don’t know and never will, for the ‘problems of today’s youth”. It starts and ends under your own roof. Your kids idolize the people you allow them to, and believe things you don’t refute or discuss, and that’s no one’s fault but your own.

Ltlabner
05-08-2009, 02:35 PM
That's an interesting article from Schilling....

My favorite bit:


I was never a fitness freak or gym rat — those are the guys that measured every milligram, count every tablet in their regimen. Yet somehow we’re hearing these same people talk about being struck momentarily stupid when West African bullfrog semen is found in their blood.

Jpup
05-08-2009, 03:01 PM
There are, at least, 3 names on Schilling's list that I suspect of PEDs.

jojo
05-08-2009, 03:05 PM
As horrifying and pathetic as it sounds, players cheated their way to a level playing field of a different sort.

reds44
05-08-2009, 03:07 PM
Except for, you now, the players who weren't using PEDs.

jojo
05-08-2009, 03:11 PM
Except for, you now, the players who weren't using PEDs.

Those would be?

TheNext44
05-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Those would be?

The ones that never made the team, or didn't last very long if they did.

durl
05-08-2009, 03:58 PM
I was listening to Peter Gammons on the radio this morning on my way to work. He has mentioned how the Union was vehemently against drug testing dating back to the late 90's and early 2000's. For the life of me I just can't understand how an organization or Union can knowingly protect its members, who are breaking the law, in court.

1 - Money.
2 - They believe they can get away with it.
3 - They believe they can hide behind noble motives. (Protecting the player from the evil owner.) People may pretend to have noble motives, but following the money trail usually shows what motivates them.


Its a shame that the Union, along with gutless Selig, have created a cloud of suspicion that will continue to hang over MLB for years to come.

There is so much blame to go around here. The players want to juice to make more money; the Union wants them to make more money because it means more money for the Union; Selig wants big number players to draw more fans so the league makes more money.

OK...off my soapbox.

blumj
05-08-2009, 04:11 PM
There are, at least, 3 names on Schilling's list that I suspect of PEDs.
I was thinking the same thing. I often wonder if a clean athlete could even make it through an NFL season in one piece.

kaldaniels
05-08-2009, 10:47 PM
Any chance all these turn of events will set Jr. up to be the 1st unanimous first ballot HOF. That would be fitting.

jojo
05-08-2009, 11:24 PM
Any chance all these turn of events will set Jr. up to be the 1st unanimous first ballot HOF. That would be fitting.

IMHO, if Jr gets in unanimously because the writers decree he is the king of clean, his vote would need an asterisk (and no I'm not saying Jr juiced).

reds44
05-08-2009, 11:28 PM
Those would be?
So you're trying to tell me every single player took PEDs?

jojo
05-08-2009, 11:36 PM
So you're trying to tell me every single player took PEDs?

Why does this issue always seem to bring out hyperbole?

I'm saying we have no clue and we shouldn't act like we do.

There are only a handful of players that we can be certain about-those few that have been caught and revealed. And we have every reason to believe that the vast majority who have used at sometime in their careers haven't been caught.

redsfandan
05-08-2009, 11:59 PM
Any chance all these turn of events will set Jr. up to be the 1st unanimous first ballot HOF. That would be fitting.
Since noone in the history of baseball has won 100% of the vote I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's very hard to please everyone and when the bar, for some at least, is so high.... I wouldn't be surprised if a few hold the 2nd half of his career against him. It's a valid point to consider and the biggest, if not only, argument against him.

kaldaniels
05-09-2009, 12:01 AM
Since noone in the history of baseball has won 100% of the vote I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's very hard to please everyone and when the bar, for some at least, is so high.... I wouldn't be surprised if a few hold the 2nd half of his career against him. It's a valid point to consider and the biggest, if not only, argument against him.

Jr by no means is superior to many of the current HOF's. But enough already with the baseball writers feeling it is their duty to not give anyone 100 percent. It would be pretty cool to see this completely stupid "tradition" end with Jr. The BBWA would come off smelling like a rose as well.

edabbs44
05-09-2009, 12:01 AM
Here's an interesting thought...the new wave genius GMs of the 90s and 00s (Cashman, Beane and Epstein) may all have built their legacies on juiced up teams.

TheNext44
05-09-2009, 01:10 AM
Jr by no means is superior to many of the current HOF's. But enough already with the baseball writers feeling it is their duty to not give anyone 100 percent. It would be pretty cool to see this completely stupid "tradition" end with Jr. The BBWA would come off smelling like a rose as well.

I agree.

But the reason why the do it is because in the first vote ever, there were a few writers who refused to vote for Ruth because of "moral" reasons. Ironically, Ty Cobb actually got more votes than Ruth but even he had 4 non-votes.

Many other sure fire Hall of Famers didn't receive votes because there was dis-agreement over who should be in the first class and how big it should be.

Anyway, certain voters have since decided that because Ruth was not unanimous, no one should be, so they refuse to vote for anyone on the first ballot. It really doesn't make sense anymore.

919191
05-09-2009, 03:17 AM
Looks like Jose Canseco had to add his opinion. Check out the pic of the press conference he had. Steroids must inflate the ego along with the head.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Jose-Canseco-only-has-to-picture-one-person-in-u;_ylt=Akc2mx7c0EMK43RqssBiqKURvLYF?urn=mlb,162171

blumj
05-09-2009, 05:36 AM
Here's an interesting thought...the new wave genius GMs of the 90s and 00s (Cashman, Beane and Epstein) may all have built their legacies on juiced up teams.

The teams they were beating were juiced up, too, though.

edabbs44
05-09-2009, 09:37 AM
The teams they were beating were juiced up, too, though.

While true, it appears as if their teams may have taken it to another level.

traderumor
05-09-2009, 11:44 AM
Looks like Jose Canseco had to add his opinion. Check out the pic of the press conference he had. Steroids must inflate the ego along with the head.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Jose-Canseco-only-has-to-picture-one-person-in-u;_ylt=Akc2mx7c0EMK43RqssBiqKURvLYF?urn=mlb,162171 Hilarious. One reporter. I guess the reporter has bragging rights about having the exclusive.

Sea Ray
05-09-2009, 12:36 PM
An interesting tangent to the Dodgers losing Manny is to look at their bench sans Manny. I was watching them last night and boy do they have a weak bench. They have one major league player on that bench right now, Mark Loretta, but he's not going to push for anyone's starting job either. Other than that they have Juan Castro, Brad Ausmus, and Xavier Paul. I think Bronson Arroyo might be the 2nd best pinch hitter in that group. The Dodgers have 13 pitchers on their 25 man roster and only 4 outfielders.

I thought weak benches were just something small markets had to deal with? I'm thinking their starting 8 is going to get awfully tired until Manny gets back. And if you're an opposing team, don't worry about double switches and dangerous pinch hitters.

I also think every team should have some competition for starting spots. There's no one to press the Dodgers' starting 8 and that's not good.

Sea Ray
05-09-2009, 12:40 PM
Hilarious. One reporter. I guess the reporter has bragging rights about having the exclusive.


He won't have to worry about getting called on to ask questions...

traderumor
05-09-2009, 01:16 PM
He won't have to worry about getting called on to ask questions...I'm just picturing that, then remembering "The Office" episode where Michael Scott called a damage control presser after Dunder Mifflin shipped paper with an obscene watermark and a single Scranton elderly reporter showed up. Jose Canseco and Michael Scott, together again (cue Bronson Arroyo JTM jingle).

Jpup
05-09-2009, 03:00 PM
An interesting tangent to the Dodgers losing Manny is to look at their bench sans Manny. I was watching them last night and boy do they have a weak bench. They have one major league player on that bench right now, Mark Loretta, but he's not going to push for anyone's starting job either. Other than that they have Juan Castro, Brad Ausmus, and Xavier Paul. I think Bronson Arroyo might be the 2nd best pinch hitter in that group. The Dodgers have 13 pitchers on their 25 man roster and only 4 outfielders.

I thought weak benches were just something small markets had to deal with? I'm thinking their starting 8 is going to get awfully tired until Manny gets back. And if you're an opposing team, don't worry about double switches and dangerous pinch hitters.

I also think every team should have some competition for starting spots. There's no one to press the Dodgers' starting 8 and that's not good.

They are still going to the Series and will win the West by, at least, 10 games.

remdog
05-09-2009, 03:41 PM
An interesting tangent to the Dodgers losing Manny is to look at their bench sans Manny. I was watching them last night and boy do they have a weak bench. They have one major league player on that bench right now, Mark Loretta, but he's not going to push for anyone's starting job either. Other than that they have Juan Castro, Brad Ausmus, and Xavier Paul. I think Bronson Arroyo might be the 2nd best pinch hitter in that group. The Dodgers have 13 pitchers on their 25 man roster and only 4 outfielders.

I thought weak benches were just something small markets had to deal with? I'm thinking their starting 8 is going to get awfully tired until Manny gets back. And if you're an opposing team, don't worry about double switches and dangerous pinch hitters.

I also think every team should have some competition for starting spots. There's no one to press the Dodgers' starting 8 and that's not good.

Yep. They are an injury away from replacing Furcal with 'Hands of Gold, Feet of Stone' at SS.

Xavier Paul took Manny's spot on the roster. On some fantasy boards he's not even listed as an OF, he's listed as PR (I don't think I've seen that since the days of Herb Washington! :lol: )

Rem

remdog
05-09-2009, 05:02 PM
So. Do the fans elect Manny to the All-Star game? Speculation in LA is that the local fans will stuff the ballot boxes and get him named to the team.

He'll be eligible to play since the game date is past his suspension dates.

Rem

Sea Ray
05-09-2009, 07:15 PM
They are still going to the Series and will win the West by, at least, 10 games.

I think they are the team to beat but injuries and this Manny issue could very well cut into that 10 game prediction of yours