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View Full Version : GONZO to start in PADRES opener.>!?!>?!!!



bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 11:44 AM
Dusty announces Gonzo is ready and will start in the opener against the padres.


My question is why.


Hairston is on fire.

How do you pull hairston out of this lineup!!:thumbdown



IMO i give him 3 games. Unless Gonzo bats over .333 for the series with a couple of rbi's i pull his butt again and stick hairston back in.

But i wouldnt even do that until i feel hairston needs a rest, after he cools off a bit.

schmidty622
05-14-2009, 11:53 AM
Dusty announces Gonzo is ready and will start in the opener against the padres.


My question is why.


Hairston is on fire.

How do you pull hairston out of this lineup!!:thumbdown



IMO i give him 3 games. Unless Gonzo bats over .333 for the series with a couple of rbi's i pull his butt again and stick hairston back in.

But i wouldnt even do that until i feel hairston needs a rest, after he cools off a bit.

I would bet anything that it's Hairston to 3rd and Gonzo in at short.

Jones1
05-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Hairston has been playing good SS the last few games, but he IS NOT a good SS. He is on fire so they may play him in LF a little more while he's hot. Gonzo shores up the D, bat him 8th and keep him in the lineup for his glove.

It is a shame he got injured because he was really starting to warm up offensively lets hope he picks up where he left off fri night.

Jones1
05-14-2009, 11:54 AM
I would bet anything that it's Hairston to 3rd and Gonzo in at short.

Or exactly play him at third! Good point!

GOYA
05-14-2009, 11:55 AM
Yes, it's stupid.

The reason is $3,375,000.00

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 12:10 PM
right well i would rather have the team changing Rosales playing third and getting better each game as he learns that position.

Has hairston made an error at short since gonzo has been hurt>?

I dont think he has. So how not good of a SS can he be.

Hey Meat
05-14-2009, 12:11 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Put him on the DL and leave him there. He is done. We are on a roll. This could kill us.

stfm965
05-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Guarantee that Hairston is in RF and Bruce gets a day off...

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 12:13 PM
I seriously hate this move.

Your team is rolling right now and you go and pick them apart.

How dumb can you be.

BuckeyeRed27
05-14-2009, 12:15 PM
I seriously hate this move.

Your team is rolling right now and you go and pick them apart.

How dumb can you be.

So you want to leave Votto on the bench when he is good enough to play 9 innings too?

BLEEDS
05-14-2009, 12:17 PM
I would bet anything that it's Hairston to 3rd and Gonzo in at short.


DING DING DING!!!

Good thing is, the Padres are just as terrible as the Dbacks. We might take over first place by the end of the weekend.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

GIDP
05-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Why do you use caps lock so much :laugh:

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 12:27 PM
So you want to leave Votto on the bench when he is good enough to play 9 innings too?

umm yeah.... did i say that? Votto has been playing. Votto hasnt been out for weeks has he.

Your comment is worthless.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 12:29 PM
DING DING DING!!!

Good thing is, the Padres are just as terrible as the Dbacks. We might take over first place by the end of the weekend.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I dont see hairston playing third.

If he keeps him in i think hariston will be in left.

Nix and dickerson left on the bench.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 12:31 PM
gonzo stats.

Record when Alex Gonzalez starts: 9-12
Record when Alex Gonzalez is out of the lineup: 10-2

GIDP
05-14-2009, 12:43 PM
Rosales should be the every day 1st baseman, trade votto for a good RH bat and a couple minor leaguers.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 12:45 PM
makes sense^:rolleyes:

BuckeyeRed27
05-14-2009, 12:58 PM
umm yeah.... did i say that? Votto has been playing. Votto hasnt been out for weeks has he.

Your comment is worthless.

No you did not say that. Gonzo has basically missed 3 more games than Votto so he hasn't "been out for weeks".

I assume your point was that the team has been playing really well since Gonzo has been hurt and you don't want to mess with that. Votto has been missing for much of the same period that the Reds have been playing well. Obviously Votto is going to help the offense without hurting the chemistry that is going on. Putting Gonzo and short and JHJ at 3rd for a few games and seeing if Gonzo can start hitting a little closer the to career norms isn't going to kill us.

schmidty622
05-14-2009, 01:04 PM
gonzo stats.

Record when Alex Gonzalez starts: 9-12
Record when Alex Gonzalez is out of the lineup: 10-2

The team is 4-0 or 5-0 when Votto sits so I guess he needs to stay sat.

Not saying I agree with Gonzo playing. Just saying that's not a great argument.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 01:06 PM
No you did not say that. Gonzo has basically missed 3 more games than Votto so he hasn't "been out for weeks".



Maybe.

but gonzo has played in 21 games out of 34

Votto 30 out of 34.


Dude your comment was sarcastic and made no sense. It was out of left field and instigating. Had no business in this thread. Obviously Votto who has the best batting avg in MLB needs to be in the lineup whenever possible.

I think if gonzo had that kind of stat this thread would have never been made.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 01:08 PM
The team is 4-0 or 5-0 when Votto sits so I guess he needs to stay sat.

Not saying I agree with Gonzo playing. Just saying that's not a great argument.

That stat was taken from the ORG.

And you can read the post above to answer your comment.

Its two completely different situations.

GIDP
05-14-2009, 01:09 PM
makes sense^:rolleyes:

thats what I was going for

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 01:10 PM
thats what I was going for

Were you being serious>? i thought you were being sarcastic>?

RedsFanInBama
05-14-2009, 01:13 PM
I think you have to keep Hairston in the lineup with the way he is going, especially with how he and Tavares are working it at the top of the order.

I could honestly see a platoon situation where Hairston plays left or third depending on the pitcher that day. If we're facing a lefty, Hairston goes to left. If we're facing a righty, Hairston goes to third and Nix plays left (of course I've done zero research to tell if this makes any sense, but I do know Nix is very bad against lefties).

The bottom line is that to me, Hairston is better to have in the lineup consistently than either Nix or Rosales.

Reds09
05-14-2009, 01:15 PM
I would rather not see gonzo back on the field. Keep Hairston at short he is a lot better hitter and in my opinion he is just as good defensively. He fits great into the 2-spot in our lineup. He gives the lineup more energy than Gonzo, Hairston is a base stealing threat. I say keep Rosales at 3rd and let him develop defensively as long as he keeps up his hitting. Some were saying put Hairston in LF for Nix, I still don't see why we wouldnt play Nix everday. He has earned a chance to play everyday, and if he does get that chance im sure he will continue to produce.

schmidty622
05-14-2009, 01:18 PM
That stat was taken from the ORG.

And you can read the post above to answer your comment.

Its two completely different situations.

That's fine, It's still a terrible argument as baseball is a team game. Bring up his batting average or OPS. But to cite wins and losses in an argument against a position player is really weak.

PedroBourbon
05-14-2009, 01:20 PM
I agree, keep Hairston in at 3B. I would sincerely hope that if the game were on the line towards the end that Duhsty would PH for Gonzo if he struggles with his bat upon return to the lineup.

RedsFanInBama
05-14-2009, 01:21 PM
Hairston isn't in Gonzalez's league defensively. I don't know how you can watch the two play SS and say they are the same there.

That said, the argument can certainly be made with the way Hairston is playing offensively that he should stay out there because he more than makes up for the difference with what he gives you at the plate.

PhillipsHead
05-14-2009, 01:24 PM
It would be dumb for Dusty to pencil him in if he's not excelling in practice. If he was a game time decision in terms of how his pre-game went (glove, BP, etc.) then I could understand that. But it's kind of stupid to mess with what's working well.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 01:49 PM
Hairston isn't in Gonzalez's league defensively. I don't know how you can watch the two play SS and say they are the same there.

That said, the argument can certainly be made with the way Hairston is playing offensively that he should stay out there because he more than makes up for the difference with what he gives you at the plate.

Have you watched hairston>?

He has a .1000 fielding %

Gonzo is .975 fielding %

Gonzo has 2 Errors.

Hairston has 0 Errors.

RedsFanInBama
05-14-2009, 01:54 PM
Have you watched hairston>?

He has a .1000 fielding %

Gonzo is .975 fielding %

Gonzo has 2 Errors.

Hairston has 0 Errors.

I'm talking strictly at shortstop, FWIW. I know Hairston brings much more defensive versatility to the table and is a way better outfielder. Fielding percentage can at times be deceptive. Obviously Hairston is going to make the routine play and isn't going to get you beat. I'm not calling him a bad shortstop, I just don't think he's as good defensively as Gonzalez.

While Gonzalez might make a couple of extra errors, he is also going to make plays that Hairston won't. Whether it's his range, ability to dive and get up and throw out a runner or his turn of a double play. Regardless of their respective current fielding percentages, Gonzalez is a better defensive shortstop than Hairston. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

Now, all that said, I'd rather have Gonzalez sit and Hairston continue to play because he brings so much more to the table offensively plus great energy. But it's just not going to happen unfortunately. (BTW, .1000 would be a really bad FP)

Caveman Techie
05-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Hairston has certainly done an awesome job filling in at SS and has certainly earned more playing time which I think he will get at 3rd and Left. But to make the argument that Hairston and Gonzo are even in the same universe of defensive capabilities is just plain silly.

Playing against the Padres is the perfect time to get Gonzo back in there and let him work out the kinks before it's clutch time.

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 02:02 PM
Hairston has certainly done an awesome job filling in at SS and has certainly earned more playing time which I think he will get at 3rd and Left. But to make the argument that Hairston and Gonzo are even in the same universe of defensive capabilities is just plain silly.

Playing against the Padres is the perfect time to get Gonzo back in there and let him work out the kinks before it's clutch time.


I think that attitude of the argument being silly has gone on for ages around here.

So its a hard idea to bust.

but i think hairston is getting closer to busting it. He's made some fantastic plays over at SS while Gonzo has been out.

I think hairston is lacking the arm of gonzo, that he will never match. But range and fielding i think hes getting close to being right there. Which IMO is plenty enough for him to wint he position over considering How he is WORLDS better at the plate.

thorn
05-14-2009, 02:19 PM
We really need JHJ in that super sub role, he's doing a fine job now at SS, but his value to this team is to be able to play multiple position and get 3-4 starts a week somewhere. Plus he's the only real RH bat we have for LF (I don't count MACDONALD).

jfleur87
05-14-2009, 03:05 PM
:eek:

ian_madden
05-14-2009, 03:18 PM
Since we now know that GONZO is going to play when he is healthy, who is the odd man out? Nix, Rosales, Votto? After all we are undefeated with Votto out of the lineup.:rolleyes:

ian_madden
05-14-2009, 03:19 PM
I don't mind this move. GONZO was really getting hot. If we can get ab to JHJ at 3rd and in LF, and NIX against righties, and Rosales a couple times a week, we will be fine. What I don't want is for Rosales to come up here just to sit the bench.

Hondo
05-14-2009, 03:24 PM
I think Hariston will Start in Left Field, Bat 2nd, and Gonzalez will Play SS and Bat 8th...

McDonald goes down or is released.

Dude Rock
05-14-2009, 04:01 PM
God have mercy on Dusty if we lose tonight. This board will be in total meltdown. ;)

Rockermann
05-14-2009, 04:04 PM
God have mercy on Dusty if we lose tonight. This board will be in total meltdown. ;)

I can guarantee that won't happen. Mark my words.

cbowen2112
05-14-2009, 04:05 PM
I can guarantee that won't happen. Mark my words.

Yeah, that would be a bummer if we lost tonight!;)

cbowen2112
05-14-2009, 04:07 PM
I think that Gonzo will come into his own knowing that we will cut him loose if he doesn't start producing. He is a veteran who never has played as bad as he has this year. Of course he was never out a full season before either...I hope for the best for Gonzo, but also want to continue seeing the young energetic team win ballgames.

mivers176
05-14-2009, 04:58 PM
man, i'm bummed about this. not b/c i dont like Alex but yeah, the team is rolling right now and theres no GOOD reason to do something that will put a hiccup in this winning streak. granted he's making a ton of money but i just fear Dusty is going to be making a mistake.
as it is, you gotta stick with Lance in Lft and Rosales in the lineup somewhere.

this is kinda disappointing.

Hondo
05-14-2009, 05:14 PM
Are these guys supposed to play better in contract years anyway?

Gizmo
05-14-2009, 05:18 PM
I find it great that we've got the problem of having too many pieces to the puzzle right now.

Fon Duc Tow
05-14-2009, 05:30 PM
I find it great that we've got the problem of having too many pieces to the puzzle right now.

Agreed. Its a nice problem to have.

Hondo
05-14-2009, 05:45 PM
Agreed. Its a nice problem to have.

Is Gonzalez really a piece of the puzzle?

xavr1
05-14-2009, 05:59 PM
Is Gonzalez really a piece of the puzzle?

He is when you consider his price tag. Not that Im glad about it.

Brutus
05-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Is Gonzalez really a piece of the puzzle?

Really depends on his production. If he plays defense like he's known to do, and hits just like his career averages, then yes I would say he would have to be considered a piece of the puzzle.

However, if we're using the Gonzalez of the first four weeks as an example, then you might argue Jerry Hairston has been too valuable to keep out of the lineup at the benefit of Gonzalez.

Kingspoint
05-14-2009, 07:19 PM
Dusty announces Gonzo is ready and will start in the opener against the padres.


My question is why.


Hairston is on fire.

How do you pull hairston out of this lineup!!:thumbdown



IMO i give him 3 games. Unless Gonzo bats over .333 for the series with a couple of rbi's i pull his butt again and stick hairston back in.

But i wouldnt even do that until i feel hairston needs a rest, after he cools off a bit.


No kidding. The guy's batting over .400 over his last 9 games or so.

But, I can't question Manager lineups in April or May, unless it's something as stupid as playing Corey Patterson over anybody. Come June, though, I want the 8 best players out there every day.

Cant Touch This
05-14-2009, 08:08 PM
I don't mind this move. GONZO was really getting hot. If we can get ab to JHJ at 3rd and in LF, and NIX against righties, and Rosales a couple times a week, we will be fine. What I don't want is for Rosales to come up here just to sit the bench.

I'm in your camp on this one. Gonzo and Phillips were turning it around about the same time. They both started hitting the ball on the screws with much more frequency (it was hard to get any worse than the way they both started.)

If Gonzo is healthy, this may not be such a bad move. Having his range at SS will make it THAT much harder for the opposition to find holes to get hits.

I really like the way JHJ has been playing. Same with Rosales. Their PT will prove to be hugely beneficial this season because you know damn well Gonzo will probably need more time off.

UPRedsFan
05-14-2009, 08:38 PM
I'm ok with this. It's the defense we're gaining.

Hairston will probably go to third and Rosales will probably go to first for a game or two until Votto is really healthy. When Votto's healthy and back, then Rosales plays third against left handed pitching with Hairston in left.

Against righ handed pitching you play the hot bat between Rosales and Hairston at third. Or stick Hairston at short and sit Gonzo when Owings and Arroyo pitch (i.e. we're likely to need a lot of offense in those games)

bgwilly31
05-14-2009, 09:14 PM
I think the chances of hairston knocking two runs in, or stealing 2nd or third to win the game, is a lot greater than gonzo making a play to win the game at short stop.

Red Forman
05-14-2009, 09:40 PM
gonzo stats.

Record when Alex Gonzalez starts: 9-12
Record when Alex Gonzalez is out of the lineup: 10-2


Never forget Mister Baker's 5/4 remarkable quote...


"I ain't no front-runner."

LouisvilleCARDS
05-14-2009, 09:55 PM
The real question isn't really Gonzalez vs. Hairston as much as it is Gonzalez vs. Nix or Dickerson, because if Gonzalez is back at SS, then Hairston is going to left. I would like to ride the Nix train a bit longer though, but in the long run is Nix or Dickerson really going to much more than Gonzalez? I'm not a Gonzalez fan at all, I think he should be traded or something if possible, but we're basically talking about a push here with who would play left if Hairston was at shortstop, or Gonzalez.

RedsFanInBama
05-14-2009, 11:59 PM
I would say it is actually Hairston vs. Nix/Rosales.

If Gonzalez is healthy, he will be at short. Dusty has already admitted this. I don't particularly care for it, but it's not going to change in the near future.

I personally would keep Hairston in the lineup at either third or left and work a platoon of Nix/Rosales accordingly.

bgwilly31
05-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Gonzo back and the RED HOT reds get swept for the first time this season.

Coincidence>?


GREAT MOVE DUSTY!:rolleyes:

bgwilly31
05-18-2009, 10:21 AM
Gonzo played in 2 out of the 3 games vs the padres.

He went 0-8 during the series.

I dont count the should have been scored Error that hairston right in the glove when he lost it in the lights.

Captain Hook
05-18-2009, 06:56 PM
How long will Dusty allow Gonzo to play?He is really struggling and has done so all season long.We all are talking about it and it seems like there shouldn't be any question about who should play.At the very least there is no question about who shouldn't play.Yet every day Gonzo if healthy is in the lineup.

I think many of us are a little over critical sometimes of the in game moves Dusty makes. But the decision to play a guy struggling so badly when there are others that not only deserve a chance to play but has earned the chance then it is a complete blunder every single night.

Jack Burton
05-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Why would you mess with the chemistry of a club that was on a roll? Just a stupid move.

Caveman Techie
05-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Why would you mess with the chemistry of a club that was on a roll? Just a stupid move.

People have this impression that once you have a lineup that works you leave it alone and those eight players play everyday. Well, that's not what happens. If you never get any playing time for other players then how would they ever be ready to play in case of an injury, or off day?

A good example of this is quite possibly the greatest lineup in baseball history, the great eight from the Big Red Machine. 1975-1976 the great eight only played in 88 games together where those eight started the game. With that lineup they had over a .700 winning percentage. Guys need a day off, or get hurt. Other players have to be ready to come in and play.

bgwilly31
05-19-2009, 02:12 PM
People have this impression that once you have a lineup that works you leave it alone and those eight players play everyday. Well, that's not what happens. If you never get any playing time for other players then how would they ever be ready to play in case of an injury, or off day?

A good example of this is quite possibly the greatest lineup in baseball history, the great eight from the Big Red Machine. 1975-1976 the great eight only played in 88 games together where those eight started the game. With that lineup they had over a .700 winning percentage. Guys need a day off, or get hurt. Other players have to be ready to come in and play.


Thats not the case with gonzo.

Gonzo was given back a Starting position that he didnt deserve. That put a bad taste in the mouth of the entire team.

Caveman Techie
05-24-2009, 09:24 PM
Wow! I'm glad Gonzo shook the rust off in the Padres series. Wonder how he would have done coming in to the games against the Indians without having a chance to sharpen up? Cause with Phillips getting hurt last night and Votto sitting out again today we needed all three of: Hairston, Janish, and Gonzo for this series.

With his defense if his offense finally turns around like it has this past week it could help be one of the sparks this team needs.

gedred69
05-24-2009, 10:23 PM
Is it appropriate now to tell the Gonzo bashers to please sit down and be quiet?

bgwilly31
05-25-2009, 08:37 AM
after one hit^ :lol:

Caveman Techie
05-25-2009, 09:41 AM
Well now I know you didn't watch any of the games this weekend. Gonzo's bat was on fire this weekend. He's got a 5 game hit streak going now, 3 of the 4 runs yesterday were his RBI's.

xavr1
05-25-2009, 09:55 AM
It was great to see him on fire this series, but he's still hitting .225 and I still cringe every time he comes to the plate. I hope he proves me wrong over the long haul, but Im not holding my breath.

That said, there arent really any other viable options at this point so he is here to stay.

Caveman Techie
05-25-2009, 10:15 AM
Yeah, Gonzo isn't as good as he has been this week. However, he's not as bad as he was earlier in the year either. He'll finish up somewhere around .285avg with an OPS somewhere around .700.

Shawn_RedsFan
05-25-2009, 12:16 PM
Yeah, Gonzo isn't as good as he has been this week. However, he's not as bad as he was earlier in the year either. He'll finish up somewhere around .285avg with an OPS somewhere around .700.

No way he hits .285 I'll go with .260 - .270

xavr1
05-25-2009, 01:27 PM
I'll go with .255