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Homer Bailey
05-16-2009, 02:47 AM
I've never been a huge proponent of defensive stats, but my buddy is a Brewers fan, and I've been trying to explain to him the incompetence of the Brewers defensively, but he argues taht all defensive stats are subjective. I need some help from those that understand defensive stats much better than I do, and can help me explain how defensive stats (especially range) are calculated. Please help!

(This all started when he claimed they could put Gamel in right, Braun in Left, and Hart in center, and be a great defensive outfield).

jojo
05-16-2009, 08:19 AM
I've never been a huge proponent of defensive stats, but my buddy is a Brewers fan, and I've been trying to explain to him the incompetence of the Brewers defensively, but he argues taht all defensive stats are subjective. I need some help from those that understand defensive stats much better than I do, and can help me explain how defensive stats (especially range) are calculated. Please help!

(This all started when he claimed they could put Gamel in right, Braun in Left, and Hart in center, and be a great defensive outfield).

OMG. I'd just explain it to him this way. As a Reds fan, you'd absolutely drool over the Brewers going in that direction....

RedsManRick
05-16-2009, 10:49 AM
Defensive Efficiency Rating. At the team level, that gets you a long, long way. It's really easy to explain too. When the ball is hit in to the field of play, how often does your team turn it in to an out? There's nothing subjective there.

FWIW, Braun has actually graded out as a pretty good LF. On the individual player level, I think UZR is considered the standard at this point, but I'd start with DER and go from there.

westofyou
05-16-2009, 11:14 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-ibanez050609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

"I do not buy numbers defensively. At all," Amaro said. "I look at fielding percentage. But that other business? I don’t buy it a lick. I think defense is subjective. You know, if you watch a guy, whether he has range or not. You can’t study a guy’s routes to the ball by the numbers. It doesn’t happen.

"We subscribe to what our guys see with their eyes, especially when it comes to defense."

jojo
05-16-2009, 11:39 AM
Even though the corner-outfield market hadn’t fleshed itself out – and wouldn’t, really, for another six weeks – Amaro pursued Ibanez doggedly. “We didn’t want to lose him,” Amaro said, “and if that meant giving him a third year, we were ready to do that. We realized there were plenty of corner outfielders available. He was the one we wanted, and when we want somebody, we go after them.”

Bill Bavasi approached free agency the exact same way.

Mario-Rijo
05-16-2009, 02:47 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-ibanez050609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

A very good read, I found this part to be rather interesting on many levels.

Baseball men have noticed Ibanez making plays on balls that dropped in front of him in the past, and the most advanced defensive metrics available rate Ibanez among the best outfielders in the game.

All of which leads to the question: Has Ibanez, whose fielding caused plenty an eye roll in Seattle the last five seasons, really gotten that much better over the course of one offseason?

“What do you think?” he said. “I don’t want to get into this because I’ve been advised not to. But those ratings are flawed. There are factors that aren’t considered. Velocity of ball. Trajectory of ball. The people around you and their range and if they have priority over you. There’s a place for a lot of numbers. But just like scouting’s not the end-all, be-all, neither are numbers.”

They are advised not to get into this debate, by whom? But I agree with him somewhat nothing is the end all be all, but it can be close enough.