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View Full Version : Team needs a small shakeup!



redsfan4445
05-17-2009, 07:38 PM
after watching the Reds throw 3 games to the Last Place Padres!!, they need a shakeup.. get Gomes up here ( if Joey cant go for a few days, he has power) and Release McDonald, Put Massett on the DL and get Viola up here and it sucks that since Gonzo came back they have dropped 3 straight.. i still dont feel Gonzo is the same player they thought they were signing.. he isnt a threat any longer in my eyes.. time to move on from him as well if he keeps struggling..

Also if they can get Peevey before the Cubs or Cardinals do that would be a huge uplift too..

Unassisted
05-17-2009, 07:47 PM
Three losses by a total of 5 runs doesn't constitute an emergency, IMO.

Peavy was impressive today, but I don't want to see the Reds mortgage the future to rent him for a year. The Padres have made it clear they won't give him up for spare parts.

Kc61
05-17-2009, 07:51 PM
In this series, the Reds had a 3.93 ERA and made zero errors in the field.

Reds scored a total of 9 runs in 34 innings. That's 2.4 runs per nine innings.

Problem was lack of hitting - and some ineffective relief outings in the first two games. The Rhodes/Weathers innings late in the first two games didn't work out.

Reds were due for a clinker on the road. Wasn't their road record 13-5? That was unsustainable.

So now they should pick it up at home. Aren't we all confident that will happen? Aren't we?

Mario-Rijo
05-17-2009, 08:09 PM
In this series, the Reds had a 3.93 ERA and made zero errors in the field.

Reds scored a total of 9 runs in 34 innings. That's 2.4 runs per nine innings.

Problem was lack of hitting - and some ineffective relief outings in the first two games. The Rhodes/Weathers innings late in the first two games didn't work out.

Reds were due for a clinker on the road. Wasn't their road record 13-5? That was unsustainable.

I agree the offense wasn't up to par, but we all knew coming in this was gonna be the case more often than not.


So now they should pick it up at home. Aren't we all confident that will happen? Aren't we?

Riiight, we will be highly fortunate not to be swept again and fall to .500 on the season. Philly will smoke us.

Reds1
05-17-2009, 08:21 PM
We were in every game. Not shake up needed. We don't really even have Votto. I think this team has really been awesome just not hitting or enough lately. They faced some decent pitching. It is funny though every time I get a great feeling about the team they have a rough patch. It's like I can't even brag about 1st place for more than like 10 hours. LOL

OnBaseMachine
05-17-2009, 08:31 PM
Today was the first time ever that I didn't watch the game or even follow the score. I'm just so frustrated and so sick and tired of losing every year. The Reds FO obviously doesn't care. They continue running guys out there who have no business being on a major league roster and they are constantly playing a man or two short because they refuse to use the DL.

The Reds fooled me again. I actually thought this year was going to be different but it appears I was wrong. Again. How do you play so well for a month and a half and then get swept by the worst team in baseball? It's obvious this team isn't as good as I thought. Or maybe I just set myself up for failure by expecting this team to contend.

I've been a Reds fan since I was old enough to know what baseball was and the Reds have had only one good season in that timespan. And they didn't even make the playoffs that season. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever seen this team make the playoffs.

I'll always love this team but its so frustrating being a Reds fan sometimes. They'll give me a heart attack before I'm 30. :)

Ron Madden
05-17-2009, 08:40 PM
after watching the Reds throw 3 games to the Last Place Padres!!, they need a shakeup.. get Gomes up here ( if Joey cant go for a few days, he has power) and Release McDonald, Put Massett on the DL and get Viola up here and it sucks that since Gonzo came back they have dropped 3 straight.. i still dont feel Gonzo is the same player they thought they were signing.. he isnt a threat any longer in my eyes.. time to move on from him as well if he keeps struggling..

Also if they can get Peevey before the Cubs or Cardinals do that would be a huge uplift too..

I heard Jeff Brantley in the second inning say this team needs a shakeup and wondered how many fans would repeat that statement.

I agree with putting Massett on the DL and sending McDonald down, I'd bring Viola and Gomes up to replace them.

I'd hardly call those moves a shakeup though.

Mario-Rijo
05-17-2009, 08:46 PM
Today was the first time ever that I didn't watch the game or even follow the score. I'm just so frustrated and so sick and tired of losing every year. The Reds FO obviously doesn't care. They continue running guys out there who have no business being on a major league roster and they are constantly playing a man or two short because they refuse to use the DL.

The Reds fooled me again. I actually thought this year was going to be different but it appears I was wrong. Again. How do you play so well for a month and a half and then get swept by the worst team in baseball? It's obvious this team isn't as good as I thought. I've been a Reds fan since I was old enough to know what baseball was and the Reds have had only one good season in that timespan. And they didn't even make the playoffs that season. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever seen this team make the playoffs.

Ahh it ain't that bad OBM. This team should remain competitive all season and if they were wise get a solid RH bat they would have an outside shot at the playoffs. As far as SD goes it's simple lack of power (which is how the Pads are able to survive and exceed a bit at home) and execution. We will go as far as the offense allows us, if they contniue to have poor PA's we can't contend. If you watch closely when we have good PA's and the pitching is on we will often win when we don't stay selective we won't win very often.

Edskin
05-17-2009, 08:50 PM
Disappointing series out in SD, but sweeping Arizona kept it from being a disaster. A 3-3 west coast trip is no big deal, even though losing three to a last place team is frustrating.

The sweep in SD does put a bit of pressure on them to have a good series against the Phillies though-- the rotation will be tested for sure.

OnBaseMachine
05-17-2009, 09:04 PM
OK, after I got all that out of my system, I'm predicting a 7-2 homestand. ;)

Mario-Rijo
05-17-2009, 09:13 PM
OK, now that I got all that negativity out of my system, I'm predicting a 6-3 or 7-2 homestand. ;)

That's the spirit, hopefully you can keep that optimism until Friday because I envision the next 3 looking worse than the last 3.

I'll be in attendance on that Friday game, Section 113 row M seat 5 (just beyond the 3rd base bag). Last year I attended the Reds/Indians where Dunn hit the walk-off (I think it was the Saturday game).

Doc. Scott
05-17-2009, 09:36 PM
Replacing Darnell McDonald with Jonny Gomes would be a nice little start. Also some more starts for Paul Janish at short; Alex Gonzalez has been coddled enough in his comeback and at some point he needs to be reminded that it's time to perform or lose some PT.

BearcatShane
05-17-2009, 09:49 PM
Baseball is a funny game. I remember back in April when the Reds started out 0-2 and people weren't necessarily panicking but you could feel that many folks were right on the brink. Then at the beginning of May the Reds as a team got hot and everyone got excited and people really began to think, Maybe. So they lost three games in a row to the lowly Padres. In 162 game schedule, something like that is bound to happen a couple times. The Reds put themselves in a position where a sweep against San Diego wasn't a killer because they had won so many games in the previous two weeks. Being a die hard baseball fan is frustrating. Every team will blow late leads, give up a couple walkoffs, and get outplayed a few times against inferior competition. Thats the nature of the beast. So now the Reds return home, still smack dab in the middle of the Central Division and Wild Card races against a pitching staff that even the Reds bats should be able to score 5-6 runs a game against. I'll take Cueto, Harang, and Owings or whoever may start game three against Philly. Good pitching beats good hitting 66.8 percent of the time. I'll take two outta three. The Reds are fine and in a good position right now. Let's get Philly!

redsmetz
05-17-2009, 09:53 PM
Ahh it ain't that bad OBM. This team should remain competitive all season and if they were wise get a solid RH bat they would have an outside shot at the playoffs. As far as SD goes it's simple lack of power (which is how the Pads are able to survive and exceed a bit at home) and execution. We will go as far as the offense allows us, if they contniue to have poor PA's we can't contend. If you watch closely when we have good PA's and the pitching is on we will often win when we don't stay selective we won't win very often.

I have to agree with this. I have to say that the "woe is me" attitude pervasive at times on this board this season is really growing old. We wring our hands every time we hit any little bump. It's a long haul and this team is capable of good things. I can't say, as OBM does, that this front office doesn't care. Things can't get done with just the snap of fingers or with a magic wand. Let the season play out. I won't suggest this team will make the playoffs, but it is generally better than any we've seen in a while. Try to enjoy it kids. It won't be perfect, but we can see some fun baseball.

RED VAN HOT
05-17-2009, 09:56 PM
Being in Petco Park this weekend made the disappointment palpable. Arroyo made a valiant effort to spare the pen and keep the Reds in the game, but the offense went all too quietly. They lacked the confidence that they had shown before today.

I still believe that the pitching will keep the Reds in the race. The left side of the diamond will keep them from excelling. Dusty is giving Gonzo every opportunity to return to 2007 levels, but then again, what choice does he have? Third base remains a problem offensively now as well as defensively. Nix may be a partial answer to LF, but not against LHP. IMO the best move they could make would be to replace McDonald with Gomes and platoon him with Nix. Then, hope that EE returns to form following rehab in mid June. Until then, Gonzalez, Hairston, Janish, and Rosales ---- mix and match at SS and 3B. I like Hairston in the 2 slot in the order.

As for pitching, Masset to the DL, Lincoln DFA, and call up Fisher and Viola. Fisher has got to be on this staff.

BearcatShane
05-17-2009, 09:59 PM
They lacked the confidence that they had shown before today.



Jake Peavy will do that to ya. I can't believe he is only 27. As for Lincoln, I'd keep him. He will be a solid 4th or fifth option out of the pen for this team.

Kc61
05-17-2009, 10:03 PM
In addition to replacing McDonald with Gomes, I would focus on the bullpen. I think the personnel is ok, but I would give Burton some chances in the eighth inning. I'm concerned that Weathers has hit a speed bump -- he does on occasion -- and shouldn't be the sole righty to pitch in the eighth.

I think Viola will come up and replace Massett for the next two series, with a lot of lefty hitting particularly on the Phils. But Massett will be back and maybe he gets some seventh and eighth inning work too.

Lincoln has disappointed this year, I'd prefer Roenicke or Fisher, but with the Lincoln contract it probably won't happen. If things get worse, Lincoln may have a "DL" visit to try and work things out.

Back to the offense -- I just don't see the fixes at AAA. Gomes is ok for a platoon but there needs to be a deal. Right now the Reds have only one top offensive player and that is Votto who is still not ready to play everyday.

_Sir_Charles_
05-17-2009, 10:12 PM
Today was the first time ever that I didn't watch the game or even follow the score. I'm just so frustrated and so sick and tired of losing every year. The Reds FO obviously doesn't care. They continue running guys out there who have no business being on a major league roster and they are constantly playing a man or two short because they refuse to use the DL.

The Reds fooled me again. I actually thought this year was going to be different but it appears I was wrong. Again. How do you play so well for a month and a half and then get swept by the worst team in baseball? It's obvious this team isn't as good as I thought. Or maybe I just set myself up for failure by expecting this team to contend.

I've been a Reds fan since I was old enough to know what baseball was and the Reds have had only one good season in that timespan. And they didn't even make the playoffs that season. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever seen this team make the playoffs.

I'll always love this team but its so frustrating being a Reds fan sometimes. They'll give me a heart attack before I'm 30. :)

Sometimes I think you're simply expecting too much out of them. Look, unless EVERYTHING falls right, they're not making the playoffs this year. If you'd set your expectations to a more reasonable level, you'll enjoy this team MUCH more I swear. This year is about improvement. That's it. Improvement. Improvement in pitching, improvement in defense, improvement in hitting approach, improvement in baserunning, improvement in fundamentals, and most importantly of all...improvement in team chemistry and attitude. So far this year, I give a yes to ALL those areas.

I personally didn't see a FA bat this offseason that was a good "fit" for us. And seeing as how we're such a young team and still developing, I didn't think it was a very good idea to make a reach for a "big" acqusition this past offseason. After this year, after many of the young players get more established, after the pitchers settle down into their roles, after we see how the team gels...we'll have a MUCH better idea of what our needs are. I see us picking up a bat if we need one either later this season (if we're still in the mix...and I think we just might be), or next off season. And in 2010...we start our big run. I see MANY years of playoffs in our near future. So just try to enjoy the little things for now...your years of waiting, hell...ALL our years of waiting, will be over soon enough.

BearcatShane
05-17-2009, 10:15 PM
About Weathers, Dusty needs to stop putting him in games with runners on base. Weathers does his job more often than not but he will give up hits, he can usually just work around them. When he comes in, let him start the inning with a clean slate.

wheels
05-17-2009, 10:19 PM
Just another wacky West Coast road trip.

OnBaseMachine isn't old enough to remember how awful it was when Reds teams were in the NL West, and many a promising season were dashed on the rocks of the Left Coast.

It's the sun rising in the east and setting in the west, old faithful an alla that.

What it means to me is that we've seen the club at it's very best and very worst, all within the span of six games.

They'll need a bat if they are gonna truly go for it. That hasn't changed. The pitching didn't exactly implode, and they got a decent start out of Arroyo today.

In the end, it was a 3-3 road trip. Nothing really new to see there.

Rojo
05-17-2009, 10:27 PM
Just another wacky West Coast road trip.

OnBaseMachine isn't old enough to remember how awful it was when Reds teams were in the NL West, and many a promising season were dashed on the rocks of the Left Coast.

You don't need to be that old.

remdog
05-17-2009, 10:52 PM
....I have to say that the "woe is me" attitude....

Huh!?!

There is no "woe is me" attitude on this board. There are a lot of people that know something about baseball and are realistic. Maybe that's who you are talking about.

It was pretty well-known and acknowledged by the FO in the off season what this team had to do to compete for the playoffs. Many of those needs and moves were articulated here by Redszone posters even before the FO opened up to them.

Bringing in RH & RH to handle the catching was a good start---improve your weakest position and you make a big step up. ++ move.

Solve CF problem. Willy Tavaras was probably a bit of a panic move but he's been a little different than advertised so far; hit better, bunted and stold bases worse. Defense is about as expected. Considering who we had to cover CF last year, it's better. + move (at this time).

Fill the hole at SS. No details needed. --- (non)move.

Big RH bat for the OF. Once again, no details needed. ---(non)move.

Replace Affeldt in the pen. They bring in Rhodes and he's been a + move in the sense that they are using him but they used Affeldt in a different manner---they used him for longer periods and not just as a LOOGY. Overall, a + move but didn't fill the hole that was left. I love DRH but, he too, is not likely to throw a couple of innings in a game (at least the way Dusty uses him).

Everyone knew that the pitching was solid going into the season. And, for the most part it has lived up to the task. Everyone also knew that the offense had a decent chance to be a big, big problem. That's called reality.

The offense, IMO, has actually been even worse than I immagined. EdE is out with an injury and was inept while he was in there. I was hoping he'd match his numbers from last year. Jay Bruce had a short hot streak and is hitting with power but, until he gets the idea of being patient at the plate, I think we're going to continue to see him struggle. (I predicted in ST that he would have a 'gang-busters' second half and I still feel that way.). Phillips has struggled and continues to have an absolutely horrid approach at the plate. At his age, I don't expect that to change. Gonzo has been even worse than I expected.

That's reality. So, let's not bash the people that live in the real world.

Rem

RFS62
05-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Today was the first time ever that I didn't watch the game or even follow the score. I'm just so frustrated and so sick and tired of losing every year. The Reds FO obviously doesn't care. They continue running guys out there who have no business being on a major league roster and they are constantly playing a man or two short because they refuse to use the DL.

The Reds fooled me again. I actually thought this year was going to be different but it appears I was wrong. Again. How do you play so well for a month and a half and then get swept by the worst team in baseball? It's obvious this team isn't as good as I thought. Or maybe I just set myself up for failure by expecting this team to contend.

I've been a Reds fan since I was old enough to know what baseball was and the Reds have had only one good season in that timespan. And they didn't even make the playoffs that season. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever seen this team make the playoffs.

I'll always love this team but its so frustrating being a Reds fan sometimes. They'll give me a heart attack before I'm 30. :)



Dude, take a deep breath.

Would you have said all that three days ago?

It's a long season.

redsmetz
05-17-2009, 11:09 PM
Huh!?!

There is no "woe is me" attitude on this board. There are a lot of people that know something about baseball and are realistic. Maybe that's who you are talking about.

It was pretty well-known and acknowledged by the FO in the off season what this team had to do to compete for the playoffs. Many of those needs and moves were articulated here by Redszone posters even before the FO opened up to them.

Bringing in RH & RH to handle the catching was a good start---improve your weakest position and you make a big step up. ++ move.

Solve CF problem. Willy Tavaras was probably a bit of a panic move but he's been a little different than advertised so far; hit better, bunted and stold bases worse. Defense is about as expected. Considering who we had to cover CF last year, it's better. + move (at this time).

Fill the hole at SS. No details needed. --- (non)move.

Big RH bat for the OF. Once again, no details needed. ---(non)move.

Replace Affeldt in the pen. They bring in Rhodes and he's been a + move in the sense that they are using him but they used Affeldt in a different manner---they used him for longer periods and not just as a LOOGY. Overall, a + move but didn't fill the hole that was left. I love DRH but, he too, is not likely to throw a couple of innings in a game (at least the way Dusty uses him).

Everyone knew that the pitching was solid going into the season. And, for the most part it has lived up to the task. Everyone also knew that the offense had a decent chance to be a big, big problem. That's called reality.

The offense, IMO, has actually been even worse than I immagined. EdE is out with an injury and was inept while he was in there. I was hoping he'd match his numbers from last year. Jay Bruce had a short hot streak and is hitting with power but, until he gets the idea of being patient at the plate, I think we're going to continue to see him struggle. (I predicted in ST that he would have a 'gang-busters' second half and I still feel that way.). Phillips has struggled and continues to have an absolutely horrid approach at the plate. At his age, I don't expect that to change. Gonzo has been even worse than I expected.

That's reality. So, let's not bash the people that live in the real world.

Rem

Apparently I hit a nerve. I stand by that characterization. This place has been like a roller coaster since the season started. I'm surprised more of us don't have whiplash. I don't question that there are lots of folks on here who know a lot about baseball (and certainly much more than I know), but really, it just gets old everytime we lose a few games that folks are down in the doldrum. I think this club has the nucleus of a good future. I've said all along that this year is not the year unless a lot goes right. I'd love to be wrong, but I think the ownership is keeping the solid core we have together and the future is brighter regardless of how 2009 plays out. And I didn't bash anyone who's living in the real world (nor implying that anyone wasn't living in the real world).

remdog
05-17-2009, 11:26 PM
Apparently I hit a nerve. I stand by that characterization. This place has been like a roller coaster since the season started. I'm surprised more of us don't have whiplash. I don't question that there are lots of folks on here who know a lot about baseball (and certainly much more than I know), but really, it just gets old everytime we lose a few games that folks are down in the doldrum. I think this club has the nucleus of a good future. I've said all along that this year is not the year unless a lot goes right. I'd love to be wrong, but I think the ownership is keeping the solid core we have together and the future is brighter regardless of how 2009 plays out. And I didn't bash anyone who's living in the real world (nor implying that anyone wasn't living in the real world).

Hit a nerve? Not with me. This is the nature of a baseball bulletin board. I, as well as most posters here, have refrained from getting caught up in the daily sterm and drang. There are a few posters here that seem to live and die on a daily basis---once again, not reality, but, for the most part, IMO, most folks had pretty much objective opinions on this team on Opening Day. I just don't think that there is a 'woe is me crowd' that needs to be called out.

Rem

redsmetz
05-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Hit a nerve? Not with me. This is the nature of a baseball bulletin board. I, as well as most posters here, have refrained from getting caught up in the daily sterm and drang. There are a few posters here that seem to live and die on a daily basis---once again, not reality, but, for the most part, IMO, most folks had pretty much objective opinions on this team on Opening Day. I just don't think that there is a 'woe is me crowd' that needs to be called out.

Rem

Probably "woe is me" is not the proper phrase. Sturm und Drang probably hits more closely. I'm suggesting a steadier, long term view would best serve folks. It's a shame the club played so woefully in San Diego this weekend. I had hoped for better, but I know it's not the end of the world. This club has holes, no question, but their record has been better than some of their play would indicate. I want a successful season as much as the next guy. But these things happen and they'll need to play better to have even a modicum of success.

remdog
05-17-2009, 11:40 PM
This club has holes, no question, but their record has been better than some of their play would indicate.

I agree. Balloons eventually come down to earth but, if you're riding in the gondola at the right time, you will see amazing views of sunrises and sunsets. That's kind of how baseball is a lot of times.

Here's a post, courtesy of DTCrommer on Sundeck that I thought was pretty good:

"Gotta love the posts when we win and when we lose. The sky is falling with everyone right now and last week, we were World Series contenders.

Look, this team obviously has some holes on it, but IMO AZ and SD are just as bad as each other. We smoked AZ and we lost 3 close games to SD. This team will be like this all year long. We'll win some games against teams we have no business winning and we'll have games like this weekend. This team is around a .500 team and our pitching will always be there."

Rem

corkedbat
05-17-2009, 11:48 PM
I would like to see:

* A solid LF bat to place between Votto and Bruce in the fourth hole and keep EE & BP lower in the order. I'd be willing to offer up a package drawn from Frazier or Francisco, Valaika, Roenicke and a starter not named Bailey - some combination, not all.

* I'd love to see Fisher & Viola grought up with Massett to the DL and Lincoln DFA'd (probably not happening. I'd then DFA Weathers when Masset came off the DL (not happening either). Move Burton into Weahers' role.

* I'd love to see them add a young SS, bu I don't see it happening. I'd actually rather see Hairston (with Janish as a late replacement) out there then AGonz. If Cozart can put up decent offensive numbers, I'd give him a September look.

* a young catcher would be nice, but I'm Ok with Hernandez/Hanigan for the rest of the season in the 7th or 7th hole.

* agree with everyone else - Gomes replacing McDonald - I've always liked the idea of Gomes/Nix as the primary RH/LH PHers. If they get a LFer - send down Dickerson.

Edskin
05-18-2009, 12:14 AM
Dude, take a deep breath.

Would you have said all that three days ago?

It's a long season.

Ah, those silly reactionary fans..... :)

Benihana
05-18-2009, 12:47 AM
I would like to see:

* A solid LF bat to place between Votto and Bruce in the fourth hole and keep EE & BP lower in the order. I'd be willing to offer up a package drawn from Frazier or Francisco, Valaika, Roenicke and a starter not named Bailey - some combination, not all.

* I'd love to see Fisher & Viola grought up with Massett to the DL and Lincoln DFA'd (probably not happening. I'd then DFA Weathers when Masset came off the DL (not happening either). Move Burton into Weahers' role.

* I'd love to see them add a young SS, bu I don't see it happening. I'd actually rather see Hairston (with Janish as a late replacement) out there then AGonz. If Cozart can put up decent offensive numbers, I'd give him a September look.

* a young catcher would be nice, but I'm Ok with Hernandez/Hanigan for the rest of the season in the 7th or 7th hole.

* agree with everyone else - Gomes replacing McDonald - I've always liked the idea of Gomes/Nix as the primary RH/LH PHers. If they get a LFer - send down Dickerson.

Agree with most of this. I too am not a huge Weathers fan, but I don't think you DFA him- he has more value than that. Lincoln on the other hand...

Unfortunately I don't really think there are many (if any) young catchers out there that would be any significant upgrade over Ryan Hanigan for the near future. I also like what I've seen from Hernandez and Hanigan so far this year, and I'd ride that duo out til the end of the season, with Hanigan likely taking a full-time role next season.

I still think there are some young SS to be had, although you might as well wait until the offseason for that. At that point, Gonzalez is gone, and you'll have a better idea of what you have with Cozart. If he posts an OPS over .750 in AA, I'll be intrigued. Otherwise, I'd make a trade for a young SS, be it Alcides Escobar, Erick Aybar, Brandon Wood, Elvis Andrus, Reid Brignac, or maybe even a guy like Yunel Escobar if he has a down year. If teams are asking way too much for those guys, you let Hairston play full-time there next year (with Janish as the backup), with Cozart being ready to take the reigns by 2011, if not earlier.

This leaves LF, where I would also like to see the Reds make an acquisition. Unfortunately, I doubt any teams are really selling now (my top choice would be Holliday in his walk year, although Beane will surely wait at least another month). Therefore, DFA McDonald, call up Gomes, and put him in a straight platoon with Laynce Nix. If they can't get the job done, and the Reds are still in the chase this time next month, I offer Thompson, Francisco, and any OF in the system not named Stubbs or Heisey.* That may be enough.




*also excludes the two Dominican teenagers Duran and Roderiguez. And Todd Frazier- he's still a 3B in my book. If they insist, they can have Drew Sutton too.

tripleaaaron
05-18-2009, 12:52 AM
I think the shake up was the problem (Gonzalez back). They messed up some very good chemistry that we had working by putting him right back in the starters role. We had players proving they deserved an extended look and then bam, a vet with a rep that is much better than his actual ability comes back and it is all over. What has Gonzo done for this club to receive the royal treatment? Must be dating Dusty's daughter.

corkedbat
05-18-2009, 02:24 AM
Agree with most of this. I too am not a huge Weathers fan, but I don't think you DFA him- he has more value than that. Lincoln on the other hand...




You're right - deal Weathers when Masset returns (or by the trade deadline).

Cordero
Rhodes
Burton
Viola
Massett
Herrera
Fisher/Roenicke

WMR
05-18-2009, 03:45 AM
Agree with most of this. I too am not a huge Weathers fan, but I don't think you DFA him- he has more value than that. Lincoln on the other hand...

Unfortunately I don't really think there are many (if any) young catchers out there that would be any significant upgrade over Ryan Hanigan for the near future. I also like what I've seen from Hernandez and Hanigan so far this year, and I'd ride that duo out til the end of the season, with Hanigan likely taking a full-time role next season.

I still think there are some young SS to be had, although you might as well wait until the offseason for that. At that point, Gonzalez is gone, and you'll have a better idea of what you have with Cozart. If he posts an OPS over .750 in AA, I'll be intrigued. Otherwise, I'd make a trade for a young SS, be it Alcides Escobar, Erick Aybar, Brandon Wood, Elvis Andrus, Reid Brignac, or maybe even a guy like Yunel Escobar if he has a down year. If teams are asking way too much for those guys, you let Hairston play full-time there next year (with Janish as the backup), with Cozart being ready to take the reigns by 2011, if not earlier.

This leaves LF, where I would also like to see the Reds make an acquisition. Unfortunately, I doubt any teams are really selling now (my top choice would be Holliday in his walk year, although Beane will surely wait at least another month). Therefore, DFA McDonald, call up Gomes, and put him in a straight platoon with Laynce Nix. If they can't get the job done, and the Reds are still in the chase this time next month, I offer Thompson, Francisco, and any OF in the system not named Stubbs or Heisey.* That may be enough.




*also excludes the two Dominican teenagers Duran and Roderiguez. And Todd Frazier- he's still a 3B in my book. If they insist, they can have Drew Sutton too.

A full season of JHJ as the full time SS? Kill me now, please. :)

GAC
05-18-2009, 08:30 AM
Today was the first time ever that I didn't watch the game or even follow the score. I'm just so frustrated and so sick and tired of losing every year. The Reds FO obviously doesn't care. They continue running guys out there who have no business being on a major league roster and they are constantly playing a man or two short because they refuse to use the DL.

The Reds fooled me again. I actually thought this year was going to be different but it appears I was wrong. Again. How do you play so well for a month and a half and then get swept by the worst team in baseball? It's obvious this team isn't as good as I thought. Or maybe I just set myself up for failure by expecting this team to contend.

I think you're fooling yourself. ;)

Why do so many of todays younger generation of fans, like yourself, treat the game of baseball as if it's a life and death situation? It's not. One week you're high as a kite and saying we got a good team. The next week you're down in the dumps, and are saying we're running guys out there that have no business being on the roster. Yet it was that same roster when we were winning the week before. Such inconsistency.

Prior to the SD series, we went 7-3. We get swept in a weekend series, and now all of a sudden we got a thread saying this team needs a shakeup. So typical Redszone.


I've been a Reds fan since I was old enough to know what baseball was

And it still is baseball. These are professional teams, and it can happen like it did on that field on any given day. We're still 20-17, and only 3 games off the pace in the division.


and the Reds have had only one good season in that timespan. And they didn't even make the playoffs that season. I'm beginning to wonder if I'll ever seen this team make the playoffs.

I grew up (began) watching the Reds in the early 60s.A little too young to remember the 61 WS team; but in that decade, in which they had some good ballplayers/teams, they STILL only made the playoffs (WS) that one year.

Take a gander down this career list of the Reds seasons through the 20th century....

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CIN/

You'll see huge, huge voids there in between playoff/WS appearances. Take out the 70's BRM and you won't find to much to be ecstatic about. And the BRM of the 70's was, IMO, a "special" time that you won't see again.

Small-to-mid market teams like Cincy, Pitt, KC, and others, who we now ridicule because of their failed efforts to build competitive teams, once use to have dynasties. And why? Because the game (economics) has radically changed so much in the last 15 years. The "process" began earlier; but IMO, really took a foothold around the mid-90s. It use to be skewered towards the owners, and players were basically property. While money has always been an intricate part of the game, it was the owners who had it and controlled it. Now it's shifted, and greatly, to the other end of the spectrum where those above organizations are having to try and find innovative ways to compete.

And even with the advent of Moneyball and the emphasis on scouting, drafting, and statistical analysis -which is all good - those "lesser" organizations are still at a disadvantage because those larger market teams practice it too, and at some point MONEY is still going to come into play in trying to retain those players. Look at what has happen to Beane's As over the last couple of years. Now some will say they are in a rebuilding mode. But that's just it - you're always rebuilding. Beane is entering his 11th year as the As GM and has yet to take his team to the WS.

So come down off the bridge. Or else take up something less stressful, like bridge. ;)

redsmetz
05-18-2009, 09:43 AM
GAC, excellent post and great advice. I think we're just about the same age and that 1961 club played while I was six. I only have vague memories of them, but as I moved into "the age of reasoning", I knew they'd gone to the World Series. And some of those mid 60's clubs were good teams, but always fell short (I don't clearly remember the heartbreak finish of the 1964 season, when the pennant was decided on the last day of the season and the Reds, Cardinals and Phillies could have all taken it. We and the Phils finished second, one game back.

I've been meaning to mention this in one of these threads, but I was looking at the Reds 1990 "Wire to Wire" season and how many folks remember that the club had an eight game losing streak in late July. I'd forgotten that and wondered how RZ might have reacted to such a thing. Leading by 11 games on July 24th and down to 3.5 up on August 4th. Major meltdowns would be expected, I'm sure.

It's best to take an even keel throughout a season. The immediacy of the internet and bulletin boards such as this, have us examining the picture too closely. I understand, it's what we love, but sometimes the broader view that works best.

Ltlabner
05-18-2009, 09:54 AM
A week ago the Reds were destined to be in the playoffs.

Now shake ups are needed and things aren't working.

162 games is a long time.

lollipopcurve
05-18-2009, 03:12 PM
I've been meaning to mention this in one of these threads, but I was looking at the Reds 1990 "Wire to Wire" season and how many folks remember that the club had an eight game losing streak in late July. I'd forgotten that and wondered how RZ might have reacted to such a thing. Leading by 11 games on July 24th and down to 3.5 up on August 4th. Major meltdowns would be expected, I'm sure.

It's best to take an even keel throughout a season. The immediacy of the internet and bulletin boards such as this, have us examining the picture too closely. I understand, it's what we love, but sometimes the broader view that works best.

Good stuff.

When a game has twists, turns and dipsy-doos, we call it exciting. Maybe we should look at a season the same way.

GAC
05-18-2009, 09:21 PM
I've been meaning to mention this in one of these threads, but I was looking at the Reds 1990 "Wire to Wire" season and how many folks remember that the club had an eight game losing streak in late July. I'd forgotten that and wondered how RZ might have reacted to such a thing. Leading by 11 games on July 24th and down to 3.5 up on August 4th. Major meltdowns would be expected, I'm sure.

And it's not that teams, even good ones, aren't going to go through a losing stretch during a season, they do. It really comes down to how they handle them, and are able to pull together and fight through them. That's the test of how good/bad a team is. It's a lot like when a player goes into a slump. They then begin looking for answers, trying different things to fight out of it, and in the long run end up doing more damage then good. This team doesn't need a shakeup... and a three game sweep is not a good gauge.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2009, 09:49 PM
Three game losing streaks are going to happen to every team over the course of a 162 game season. That's not what upset me. It's who the Reds lost those three games to that frustrates me. The Padres are arguably the worst team in baseball. They are near the bottom of major league baseball in runs scored and runs allowed. The Padres had lost something like 19 of 24 games before sweeping the Reds. Those are the types of losses where if you miss the playoffs by a game or two, you look back at the end of the season and wonder what might have been. I still haven't gotten over the Reds losing two of three to the Brewers on the final weekend of the 1999 season. ;)

I do think this team is more talented than the 2001-2008 Reds. Like I said earlier, it wouldn't surprise me if the Reds bounce back and go 6-3 or 7-2 on this homestand. We just need Votto to get healthy.

RFS62
05-18-2009, 10:25 PM
Decaf, my friend. Consider switching to decaf.

And stay away from Ed and his goat Vinnie.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2009, 10:52 PM
Decaf, my friend. Consider switching to decaf.

And stay away from Ed and his goat Vinnie.

:D

Back to the thread topic, here are some moves I would make for now:

-Send Darnell McDonald to Triple-A, bring up Jonny Gomes

-DFA Mike Lincoln and call up Carlos Fisher

-Play Paul Janish/Hairston Jr. at shortstop until the Reds can find a better option.

redsmetz
05-20-2009, 09:53 AM
I agree. Balloons eventually come down to earth but, if you're riding in the gondola at the right time, you will see amazing views of sunrises and sunsets. That's kind of how baseball is a lot of times.

Here's a post, courtesy of DTCrommer on Sundeck that I thought was pretty good:

"Gotta love the posts when we win and when we lose. The sky is falling with everyone right now and last week, we were World Series contenders.

Look, this team obviously has some holes on it, but IMO AZ and SD are just as bad as each other. We smoked AZ and we lost 3 close games to SD. This team will be like this all year long. We'll win some games against teams we have no business winning and we'll have games like this weekend. This team is around a .500 team and our pitching will always be there."

Rem

Rem, I have to second your highlighting DTCromer's great post. I saw the post itself this morning and was glad to see such a clear, concise review of the Reds current situation.

Jpup
05-20-2009, 10:13 AM
I keep seeing everyone wanting to get rid of Lincoln, but he's pitched pretty well lately, right? I think he's very useful if used correctly.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2009, 10:48 AM
:D

Back to the thread topic, here are some moves I would make for now:

-Send Darnell McDonald to Triple-A, bring up Jonny Gomes



This is a no-brainer and really makes me question the competency of the front office if this is not done....like, yesterday. Funny me, though. We've seen this before so many times from this organization. The stubbornness of picking some player's name out of a hat and actually playing them no matter how bad that player is and then never admitting failure. All the while a better player, that could actually help the team is wasted.

Personally, I wouldn't send McDonald to AAA, but to his house, far away from any baseball field that any Reds farm club is playing on. He has no use in this organization and he's actually in the way of decent ball players.

There, I said it. If I want warm, fuzzy, feel good stories I'll watch Extreme Makeover: Home Edition.

traderumor
05-20-2009, 11:57 AM
This is a no-brainer and really makes me question the competency of the front office if this is not done....like, yesterday. Funny me, though. We've seen this before so many times from this organization. The stubbornness of picking some player's name out of a hat and actually playing them no matter how bad that player is and then never admitting failure. All the while a better player, that could actually help the team is wasted.

Personally, I wouldn't send McDonald to AAA, but to his house, far away from any baseball field that any Reds farm club is playing on. He has no use in this organization and he's actually in the way of decent ball players.

There, I said it. If I want warm, fuzzy, feel good stories I'll watch Extreme Makeover: Home Edition.Since it is such a no-brainer, perhaps, just perhaps, it isn't about incompetence, but it is about something that you or anyone else in fandom would have no way of knowing. Maybe its just "man-love" or "stupidity" or "stubbornness," but must everything that fans can't explain from management be couched with "incompetence"? People throw that word around for anything and everything they do not understand.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-20-2009, 12:21 PM
That's right. There can be no incompetence in management, ever. Why? Because there are always successful, competent people running businesses. Always. They have to be or how did they get there? There always has to be a logical reason why someone would continue to do something that would appear to be so ridiculously illogical. Especially when viewed through the eyes of the the lowly common man.

Yes, there has to be a reasonable explanation. For anyone that questions this, they just do not understand. In fact, how dare they question the genius that is before them.

Some people nod their head and accept the illogical. Fun stuff.

traderumor
05-20-2009, 12:37 PM
That's right. There can be no incompetence in management, ever. Why? Because there are always successful, competent people running businesses. Always. They have to be or how did they get there? There always has to be a logical reason why someone would continue to do something that would appear to be so ridiculously illogical. Especially when viewed through the eyes of the the lowly common man.

Yes, there has to be a reasonable explanation. For anyone that questions this, they just do not understand. In fact, how dare they question the genius that is before them.

Some people nod their head and accept the illogical. Fun stuff.

That's right. Every time management does something that appears on the surface to not make sense to me, it is because they have no idea what they are doing. There can never be a logical reason beyond what I know, their action or inaction is only due to incompetence.

There can never be a reasonable explantion and I must always assume that these people are just stupid and I am smarter than they are. Some people shake their head at everything, spit, and say "if I were in charge..."

_Sir_Charles_
05-20-2009, 12:46 PM
I agree with many here that McDonald should be gone. To Louisville? I'm not sure. I don't, however, think Gomes is the answer. We all know his defense is horrible. That's a given. But if you guys recall, people were begging to have Wes Bankston brought up not that long ago too. He was swinging a hot bat...like Gomes is now. Just because a guy is hot, doesn't mean he's fixed whatever problems he had that sent him down to Louisville.

We currently have Bruce, Taveras, Dickerson, Nix & Hairston in the OF mix (minus Darnell). I don't really see a need for another OF'er. With Votto out for the time being, it might be wiser to bring up an IF'er instead (Yonder Alonso, Juan Francisco, Wilkin Castillo and Drew Sutton are all on the 40 man roster). And with Edinson's back spasms, maybe it would be a good idea to bring up another fresh arm and let him heal properly. Ramirez could start in his place and have a reliever come up (Roenicke, Fisher, Manuel are all on the 40 man roster). I just don't think Gomes is the no-brainer that many here think.

redsfan4445
05-20-2009, 12:56 PM
Gomes is a better option at this time.. he has 9 homers and he has a MLB past that is nothing like McDonald. He almost won rookie of the year!!

anyway i hope they dont throw all these games against leftys away by starting McDonald, much less letting him pinch hit to make an out!!!!

_Sir_Charles_
05-20-2009, 01:04 PM
Gomes is a better option at this time.. he has 9 homers and he has a MLB past that is nothing like McDonald. He almost won rookie of the year!!

anyway i hope they dont throw all these games against leftys away by starting McDonald, much less letting him pinch hit to make an out!!!!

Gomes is also playing regularly. How well is he going to perform if he's the 25th man and only getting 2 or 3 ab's a week? He's not going to be a defensive substitution late in the game, and he'd probably get a spot start occasionally like Nix & McDonald. That leaves pinch hitting. It's hard to stay hot and in a groove if your not getting AB's.

The 25th man is never going to be the player to "shake up" a team.

bucksfan2
05-20-2009, 01:16 PM
The 25th man is never going to be the player to "shake up" a team.

Jerry Hariston says hi.

I agree that a 25th man isn't going to do much but why is the 25th man on the roster batting in the bottom of the ninth in a one run game?

nate
05-20-2009, 01:21 PM
Gomes is also playing regularly. How well is he going to perform if he's the 25th man and only getting 2 or 3 ab's a week? He's not going to be a defensive substitution late in the game, and he'd probably get a spot start occasionally like Nix & McDonald. That leaves pinch hitting. It's hard to stay hot and in a groove if your not getting AB's.

The 25th man is never going to be the player to "shake up" a team.

Usually, the 25th man can do one of the following:

*be a key defensive replacement late in the game
*hit for power
*hit LHP
*pinch run

McDonald doesn't really seem to do any of those very well. Maybe he runs fast, I dunno...never seen him on base to judge it. He's not a good defender. Even if the small sample size belies the fact that he's awesome in the field, is he any more awesome than Taveras? Dickerson? Nix? He doesn't hit for power or LHP...well...he doesn't seem to hit PERIOD.

Gomes seems to be able to hit for power and hit LHP. Throw him into the mix with Nix and Dickerson and see what happens. Give McDonald a "good job" and send him to his next destination. He can go give Crash Davis speeches to up and coming youngsters.

nate
05-20-2009, 01:22 PM
Jerry Hariston says hi.

I agree that a 25th man isn't going to do much but why is the 25th man on the roster batting in the bottom of the ninth in a one run game?

If your 25th man is McDonald, you might be in one of them there self-fulfilling prophecies.

_Sir_Charles_
05-20-2009, 01:29 PM
I don't think Hairston's ever been the 25th man for the Reds.

I'm not saying the 25th man is useless and can't provide some use. I'm saying that adding a new 25th man to the team isn't going to turn a club that's losing into a team that's winning. It's not the kind of guy that's going to turn things around.

I personally think that the Reds think they've got a keeper in Gomes. But until he improves his defense to at least average...he'll never amount to much. A year of playing regularly and with coaches working with him on his defense might go a long way towards making Gomes an integral part of our future. Rewarding him for a hot bat and ignoring his defense might not be the right tack to take with Jonny. He was sent to Louisville for a reason. Standing firm on that isn't a bad idea IMO.

LoganBuck
05-20-2009, 01:34 PM
I don't think Hairston's ever been the 25th man for the Reds.

I'm not saying the 25th man is useless and can't provide some use. I'm saying that adding a new 25th man to the team isn't going to turn a club that's losing into a team that's winning. It's not the kind of guy that's going to turn things around.

I personally think that the Reds think they've got a keeper in Gomes. But until he improves his defense to at least average...he'll never amount to much. A year of playing regularly and with coaches working with him on his defense might go a long way towards making Gomes an integral part of our future. Rewarding him for a hot bat and ignoring his defense might not be the right tack to take with Jonny. He was sent to Louisville for a reason. Standing firm on that isn't a bad idea IMO.

Compounding the issue of the 25th man, is that the Reds have been playing with 23 or 24 for about three weeks now.

The weakest link in the chain is where it breaks.

nate
05-20-2009, 01:41 PM
The weakest link in the chain is where it breaks.

High five.

_Sir_Charles_
05-20-2009, 01:44 PM
Compounding the issue of the 25th man, is that the Reds have been playing with 23 or 24 for about three weeks now.

The weakest link in the chain is where it breaks.

Now that I agree with. I'm just not sure that it's an OF'er that we need. Taking the 40 man roster into account, we might be better served with a more versatile call up like Castillo or Sutton. I don't know. A lot of it depends upon the health of Votto & Volquez IMO. If they're going to be out for a while...then yeah, don't wait to make a change. If Volquez isn't going to miss any time and Votto's back in the next day or so...we should be fine waiting a day or so.

Right now, we've only got 1 guy on the active roster not playing (position players) and that's Votto. Until we know something, I'm not sure we need to bring anybody up. A week or two ago, we needed to do something...with us hanging on and not DL'ing guys. Things have changed though. Now it's just Votto really.