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View Full Version : What's with Dusty's MAN LOVE of players like Patterson types/(McDonald now!!)???



redsfan4445
05-19-2009, 10:06 PM
Goodness.. the best reliever and Dusty lets McDonald bat!!! GRRR. In the ninth he should have let Nix or Owings hit for McDonald..(and the other of the 2) bat for the pitcher in that inning.. !!!!! Gosh it ticks me off watching him let players keep playing that have no business in the bigs!!

He wants to be a winning manager, then why doesnt he make better decisions?? the Team is with out its best hitter in Votto right now and instead of getting Gomes up here who is HOT, the fans have to watch him do his punch and judy show with certain players like McDonald..

I would have also left Dickerson in the game after he got walked pinch hitting.. at least Nix would have batted in the pitchers spot leading off the ninth..

come on Dusty use your brain!!

BuckeyeRedleg
05-19-2009, 10:10 PM
He is too worried about making everyone happy. He also loves feel good stories. Yawn.

Patrick Bateman
05-19-2009, 10:40 PM
This isn't exactly the type of thread I could see myself digging up from the archives a year from now ;)

Homer Bailey
05-19-2009, 10:52 PM
There is an amazing coincidence with these guys.....

LvJ
05-19-2009, 11:13 PM
I have yet to see Corey Patterson and Darnell McDonald at the same place/same time.

Just sayin'.

OnBaseMachine
05-19-2009, 11:29 PM
Shame on Walt Jocketty for keeping McDonald around. He didn't deserve to make the team in the first place, and his play on the field backs that up. He should have been cut back in early April. But here we are, May 19th, and McDonald is still around and even starting despite having a sub .500 OPS. I have nothing against Darnell, he's a nice story and I was rooting for him, but he's simply not very good.

WVPacman
05-20-2009, 12:15 AM
It really frustrates me watching a guy like McDonald steal playing time away from Lance Nix a player that is crushing the ball and should be playing everyday.If Baker wants to succeed as a Reds manager than he has to quit pampering players that are stinking up the joint like McDonald and Dickerson and start hurting players feelings by sitting them on the bench whether they like it or not.Nix has done everything that he was asked to do and more so I think he deserves to be in the starting lineup every game.

acredsfan
05-20-2009, 12:24 AM
What really irks me about McDonald type players and Dusty is he defends players who are struggling. While I accept that for players who play the majority of time, McDonald isn't an everyday player. This means two things:

1) If Dusty or Walt believe he is in a funk, he can't get out of it when he only gets 5-10 ABs a week.

2) McDonald doesn't have a track record nor the spring training stats to suggest that the funk he is currently in is anything other than his norm. When he is called upon to produce, he isn't showing any ability to do so.

Dusty just goes ahead and tries to play matchups, but since McDonald is up here while Gomes is down in AAA, there is really nobody to compliment Nix. That gives Dusty two options in my opinion:

1) Play Nix as your permanent starter, even against lefties.

2) Bring up Gomes and give him a chance to prove he can contribute the way he did in spring training when he should have earned a spot on this team.

LoganBuck
05-20-2009, 07:16 AM
Several people are dancing around the issue, but I suspect that Dusty has a soft spot for the African American baseball player. He sees a little of himself in them. Dusty had made comments last season about getting HIS players. Last season he said that team was "Wayne's Team", and it is known that he campaigned for Patterson. It has been suspected that Dusty has certain guys on the roster that are his personal preference. I think Walt is letting Dusty have some discretion at the margins.

Redhook
05-20-2009, 08:26 AM
I have yet to see Corey Patterson and Darnell McDonald at the same place/same time.

Just sayin'.

:laugh:

redsmetz
05-20-2009, 08:39 AM
Several people are dancing around the issue, but I suspect that Dusty has a soft spot for the African American baseball player. He sees a little of himself in them. Dusty had made comments last season about getting HIS players. Last season he said that team was "Wayne's Team", and it is known that he campaigned for Patterson. It has been suspected that Dusty has certain guys on the roster that are his personal preference. I think Walt is letting Dusty have some discretion at the margins.

This is just plain silliness. While it might be correct that Baker campaigned to get Patterson, he didn't hesitate to bench and ultimately send him down to AAA. And when he returned due to injuries, he rarely hit in the lead off spot. A poster noted over on the SunDeck that McDonald gets his first start in two weeks and now we're hearing choruses about Dusty's "man love" or he really digs the brothers, etc. I see these types of threads and I wonder about the howls that would have been heard far and wide when Sparky gave Ed Armbrister the occasional start in 1976 (10 games!!!).

Rosters throughout baseball history have been filled with guys like McDonald or Dickerson or Gomes or Nix, etc. etc. etc. Sometimes they start a game from time to time. But to suggest that this is racial, is just preposterous.

westofyou
05-20-2009, 08:43 AM
Several people are dancing around the issue, but I suspect that Dusty has a soft spot for the African American baseball player. He sees a little of himself in them. Dusty had made comments last season about getting HIS players. Last season he said that team was "Wayne's Team", and it is known that he campaigned for Patterson. It has been suspected that Dusty has certain guys on the roster that are his personal preference. I think Walt is letting Dusty have some discretion at the margins.

Dusty's type of player is not black, but a guy who plays defense better than a statue, can run better than a statue and can bunt and hit and run better than a statue.

If he's black, white or green I suspect that he'd be Dusty's type of player. Seeing how the black player bucket is getting emptier and emptier each year I have a hard time seeing Dusty as myopic on that issue.

bucksfan2
05-20-2009, 08:55 AM
This is just plain silliness. While it might be correct that Baker campaigned to get Patterson, he didn't hesitate to bench and ultimately send him down to AAA. And when he returned due to injuries, he rarely hit in the lead off spot. A poster noted over on the SunDeck that McDonald gets his first start in two weeks and now we're hearing choruses about Dusty's "man love" or he really digs the brothers, etc. I see these types of threads and I wonder about the howls that would have been heard far and wide when Sparky gave Ed Armbrister the occasional start in 1976 (10 games!!!).

Rosters throughout baseball history have been filled with guys like McDonald or Dickerson or Gomes or Nix, etc. etc. etc. Sometimes they start a game from time to time. But to suggest that this is racial, is just preposterous.

I tend to agree LoganBuck on this. Dusty played Patterson in the leadoff role every game until the organization made a decision to send him to AAA ball. When he was called up I give Dusty credit for not hitting him leadoff but he still played him quite often, even when he proved he wasn't a starting outfielder.

I want to know why McDonald is on the team. If it is a Dusty decision then I have a problem with that. He is a no hit, defensive replacement outfielder. The minor leagues are littered with players of that ilk. Drew Stubbs could come in at least walk from time to time right now. You don't keep a 25th man on the roster while he is battling a slump. The place to work through that slump is in AAA. McDonald belongs in AAA at least.

IMO Dusty sees himself in young African American players. I dont know why, but Dusty often looks at "what could be" instead of "what actually is" when it comes to these types of players. McDonald and Patterson are of the same ilk if you ask me. Once top prospects who possess tools that just haven't translated to baseball. He keeps thinking to himself "man this dude can do this, or that" but in reality this dude is a dud.

westofyou
05-20-2009, 08:57 AM
Of course all the white guys like Nix who start over black guys isn't happening either right?

George Anderson
05-20-2009, 09:04 AM
Several people are dancing around the issue, but I suspect that Dusty has a soft spot for the African American baseball player. He sees a little of himself in them. Dusty had made comments last season about getting HIS players. Last season he said that team was "Wayne's Team", and it is known that he campaigned for Patterson. It has been suspected that Dusty has certain guys on the roster that are his personal preference. I think Walt is letting Dusty have some discretion at the margins.

This certainly wouldn't be the first time Dusty was accused of being a racist.

Baker stands by heat comments
By Chuck Johnson, USA TODAY
Chicago Cubs manager Dusty Baker, dismissing suggestions he made a racist assertion when speaking with reporters about day baseball, stands by his comments that black and Hispanic players are better suited to playing in the sun and heat than white players.

Cubs manager Dusty Baker didn't back down from his comments, but he also won't address it any further after this.
By Aynsley Floyd, AP

"I'm not playing the race card. I'm telling it like it is," Baker said by telephone Monday.

"What I meant is that blacks and Latins take the heat better than most whites, and whites take the cold better than most blacks and Latins. That's it, pure and simple. Nothing deeper than that."

Harry Edwards, a sports sociologist who served on the faculty at the University of California-Berkeley for 30 years, called the comments "unfortunate and not totally informed" but said they weren't malicious.

"Dusty and I go back a long way, and Dusty by no means is enamored with ethnic or racial stereotypes," Edwards said. "If we didn't have a race issue in this country, that statement would have little or no consequence. But we do have a race issue."

Baker, whose Cubs play a majority of their home games in the daytime, made his comments Saturday.

"It's easier for most Latin guys and it's easier for most minority people because most of us come from heat," Baker said. "You don't find too many brothers in New Hampshire and Maine and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. ... We were brought over here for the heat, right? Isn't that history? Weren't we brought over because we could take the heat?"

Tony Bernazard, a former major leaguer from Puerto Rico who is special assistant for the players union, didn't think anything was wrong with the comments.

"It's somebody's opinion," Bernazard said. "I don't think anybody can accuse Dusty Baker of being a racist because Dusty Baker is not a racist."

Baker's comments were ripe fodder for the talk shows Monday. Some charged that a white manager would be under fire if he made similar statements.

"If a white manager made those statements, there's no question he would find himself in a group that includes Al Campanis and Jimmy 'The Greek' Snyder," Edwards said.

Baker, one of four African-Americans among seven minority managers in the major leagues, agrees. "But as a black manager, I can say things about blacks that a white manager can't say, and whites can say things about whites that blacks can't say."

Baker said he won't address the issue any further. "People have accused me of being sensitive, but maybe they're too sensitive," he said. "I'm not elaborating on it any more. End of topic. I said what I mean."

Scrap Irony
05-20-2009, 09:06 AM
Ridiculous and completely unfounded. Nix, Rosales, Votto, and Hernandez are all proof of Baker's color blindness. But, hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a perfectly good racist diatribe.

westofyou
05-20-2009, 09:07 AM
If that's racism then I'd say there is a mess of touchy white folks sweating a non-issue.

Tommyjohn25
05-20-2009, 09:12 AM
If you all want to continue discussing why McDonald shouldn't be on the roster due to his talent level, feel free. Stop the race garbage.

RedsManRick
05-20-2009, 09:16 AM
I don't think race is an explicit part of Dusty's calculus, but I do agree that he has a soft spot for the underdog. He's been very clear throughout his career that he identifies with his players on a personal level. When a player comes along who may not yet have gotten the opportunity Dusty feels they deserved, he makes sure to give them every opportunity to succeed that he can.

Usually these are guys whose skill sets would have been a much better fit for the era in which Dusty played.

Homer Bailey
05-20-2009, 10:37 AM
Ridiculous and completely unfounded. Nix, Rosales, Votto, and Hernandez are all proof of Baker's color blindness. But, hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a perfectly good racist diatribe.

Just because you can name a bunch of white players in the starting lineup doesn't make it unfounded. There is a significant amount of evidence there.

He played Corey Patterson, one of the worst hitters in major league baseball, in the leadoff spot, until the guy was banished to AAA. He brought in Patterson, let him hit in terrible situations, and gave him more than a fair shot to produce.

Griffey hit in the 3 hole, despite the fact that it looked like he was swinging underwater last year. Why did he do it? Out of "respect."

Brandon Phillips still continues to hit 4th against RH'ers, despite having a career OPS under .700. Anyone who could look at this team objectively could see that BP is a below average hitter against righties.

Chris Dickerson saw the field for better than a month (in the 2 hole none the less) despite the fact he couldn't put a ball in play, and was butchering every play in left field. Anyone who could look at this team objectively could see that Nix was/is the better option in left.

Darnell McDonald inexcusably finds his way into the opening day lineup, and inexcusably still finds a way into the lineup on 5/19. Nonetheless, Dusty lets him hit against a RHP in the 9th inning of a one run game, (much like he let CP hit against a lefty with 2 on in a 1 run game last year).

How often do you see an african american player hit below 4 in our lineup? These days, only in the rare occasion when Hairston and Dickerson are in the lineup and Hairston is at SS.

I've pointed this issue out to my buddy quite some time ago, and he shot it down immediately. He is the most optimistic and rational Reds fan I know. Lately, he has confessed to me that he is now starting to believe the evidence that I've pointed out to him.

You can disagree that race is involved in this, but you can't say it is "ridiculous and unfounded." I'm not saying that race is the only factor, but there is a large amount of evidence here.

westofyou
05-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Just because you can name a bunch of white players in the starting lineup doesn't make it unfounded. There is a significant amount of evidence there.

He played Corey Patterson, one of the worst hitters in major league baseball, in the leadoff spot, until the guy was banished to AAA. He brought in Patterson, let him hit in terrible situations, and gave him more than a fair shot to produce.

Griffey hit in the 3 hole, despite the fact that it looked like he was swinging underwater last year. Why did he do it? Out of "respect."

Brandon Phillips still continues to hit 4th against RH'ers, despite having a career OPS under .700. Anyone who could look at this team objectively could see that BP is a below average hitter against righties.

Chris Dickerson saw the field for better than a month (in the 2 hole none the less) despite the fact he couldn't put a ball in play, and was butchering every play in left field. Anyone who could look at this team objectively could see that Nix was/is the better option in left.

Darnell McDonald inexcusably finds his way into the opening day lineup, and inexcusably still finds a way into the lineup on 5/19. Nonetheless, Dusty lets him hit against a RHP in the 9th inning of a one run game, (much like he let CP hit against a lefty with 2 on in a 1 run game last year).

How often do you see an african american player hit below 4 in our lineup? These days, only in the rare occasion when Hairston and Dickerson are in the lineup and Hairston is at SS.

I've pointed this issue out to my buddy quite some time ago, and he shot it down immediately. He is the most optimistic and rational Reds fan I know. Lately, he has confessed to me that he is now starting to believe the evidence that I've pointed out to him.

You can disagree that race is involved in this, but you can't say it is "ridiculous and unfounded." I'm not saying that race is the only factor, but there is a large amount of evidence here.Steve Scarsone laughs at this post

westofyou
05-20-2009, 10:42 AM
The Reds traded Curt Flood because they didn't think the town would except an OF of Flood-Pinson-Robinson.

Damn shame.

bucksfan2
05-20-2009, 10:46 AM
The Reds traded Curt Flood because they didn't think the town would except an OF of Flood-Pinson-Robinson.

Damn shame.

How many years ago was that? What does this have to do with Dusty?

Homer Bailey
05-20-2009, 10:50 AM
Steve Scarsone laughs at this post

I do not understand.

traderumor
05-20-2009, 10:51 AM
If it's racism, what do you do with Latino players? Jerry Hairston, Jr. is black and Mexican. So, I'm not sure how you count him. I have scratched my head several times at a Dusty move or lineup, but never, ever did the thought enter my mind that they had anything to do with the color of their skin. I just must be naive that way.

Tommyjohn25
05-20-2009, 10:53 AM
*Sigh* You can't say I didn't warn you. You all know better than this.